EII-IEE Mirror Relations (INFj and ENFp)

[jewels]

For dating, how would this work? Or would it work at all?

[Slacker]

I have friends who are an ENFp/INFj couple. They seem to get along very well. They're a bit helpless and bicker when something needs to be fixed. LOL. They usually call my husband for help when that comes up. But one time they called an appliance repairman because they couldn't figure out how to change the lightbulb in their fridge. But still, they seem quite happy.

[jewels]

I have friends who are an ENFp/INFj couple. They seem to get along very well. They're a bit helpless and bicker when something needs to be fixed. LOL. They usually call my husband for help when that comes up. But one time they called an appliance repairman because they couldn't figure out how to change the lightbulb in their fridge. But still, they seem quite happy.

hahha, I can really see that happening! They're lucky they have your husband to help out.
LOL @ the lightbulb in the fridge...

but do they seem to connect emotionally? And is the INFj male or female? I would imagine that could make a difference.

[Slacker]

ENFp male, INFj female. But I don't see how that would make a huge difference. They seem pretty connected emotionally. They've been married about as long as my husband and I have (10 years) and they seem truly happy with each other. They bicker but I'm not aware of any serious fighting.

IMO, I think mirror relationships work best when there is someone else close who fulfills the sought functions. In this case, we see them about every day (they are also neighbors) and we spend tons of time with them, and they can just pop by if they need my husband's help. But they tend to be helpless, and they can get a bit manic and forget to sit back and relax, and they need someone with the Te and Si to help them with that. But we didn't meet them until they were married and they seemed to do OK before that.

The big point is that there can be happy relationships other than dual relationships.

[tiny_dancer]

I think it would work out quite well. My best friend is INFj, and so is my coworker, and he's definitely my closest guy friend (not *too* close, as he's married w/kids, but we get along great, and if I ever need advice about something professional he always listens) There's definitely areas of disagreement where we just do things differently, but they're minor, really.

[leckysupport]

but do they seem to connect emotionally?

More likely to connect with their mirrors than with their duals IMO. Delta STs are not exactly known for being warm and friendly, they also typically have issues relating on a personal level.

[Ms. Kensington]

i think meatburger has some experience.. meatburger?

[Ali]

More likely to connect with their mirrors than with their duals IMO

I'm curious - why are mirror relations said to be of a "large psychological distance" ? I can imagine an INFJ mind-reading off an enfp !

[jessica129]

i think meatburger has some experience.. meatburger?

haha, i haven't seen meatburger in awhile. Wonder what happened to him.

[xyz]

He left. =[

[jessica129]

He left. =[

Someone actually managed to leave?

[Ms. Kensington]

in that case. sorry meatburger! Stay away!!

[tereg]

I think meatburger is on hiatus, honestly.

Not gone permanently.

[Creepy-]

More likely to connect with their mirrors than with their duals IMO. Delta STs are not exactly known for being warm and friendly, they also typically have issues relating on a personal level.

Ouch.

[Wittmont]

Someone actually managed to leave?

rofl. That sounds like we are in some sci fi tv show where all characters are caught in some time warp, alien experimental bubble, or somesuch and the characters are resigned to their destiny apart from the daring hero with faithful friends who go on to...

[tereg]

rofl. That sounds like we are in some sci fi tv show where all characters are caught in some time warp, alien experimental bubble, or somesuch and the characters are resigned to their destiny apart from the daring hero with faithful friends who go on to...

So, it's basically The Truman Show, right?

[mikemex]

Delta STs are not exactly known for being warm and friendly

You're a bit too prejudiced.

[leckysupport]

You're a bit too prejudiced.

How is that?

[mikemex]

I know several LSE women and they are all very friendly. SLIs are introverts, so they usually keep to themselves, but they are also very friendly.

[leckysupport]

I know several LSE women and they are all very friendly. SLIs are introverts, so they usually keep to themselves, but they are also very friendly.

It is not their specialty, they don't do it very well and it drops very quickly. If they even do it in the first place.

[jewels]

so how does an INFj show they like someone? And what indicates they are just being polite?

[idolatrie]

It is not their specialty, they don't do it very well and it drops very quickly. If they even do it in the first place.

This makes LSEs sound like they're just faking friendliness for some unsaid reason. Which I think is an unfair statement. I may not be the most bubbly and effervescent person, but I to have a genuine interest in people and I like to think I'm generally friendly and polite. I'm not sure where being socially incompetant comes into being a LSE.

And in terms of relating on a personal level, I do make a sincere attempt to do so. And frankly I'm not sure I have a problem with that. Emotional vulnerability is a whole 'nother ballgame, but in terms of being able to connect personally to others? That I can do.

Sorry for going off topic, but I'm a little surprised and incredulous at the delta ST attack.

so how does an INFj show they like someone? And what indicates they are just being polite?

I would also really like to know the answer to this question!!

[leckysupport]

This makes LSEs sound like they're just faking friendliness for some unsaid reason. Which I think is an unfair statement. I may not be the most bubbly and effervescent person, but I to have a genuine interest in people and I like to think I'm generally friendly and polite. I'm not sure where being socially incompetant comes into being a LSE.

And in terms of relating on a personal level, I do make a sincere attempt to do so. And frankly I'm not sure I have a problem with that. Emotional vulnerability is a whole 'nother ballgame, but in terms of being able to connect personally to others? That I can do.

If you leave a relatively socially confident ethical type in a room of people they don't know well, people will find it easier to get people to warm up to the ethical type and 'trust' them. Let them eat their food, touch their pets, put feet on their sofa, date their daughters etc.

Some ethical types get irritated if they can't get to know someone or open them up in a short space of time.

That's what I meant by a lack of warmth and perceived genuineness in relations, Delta STs IMO are polite and proper but without the trusting warmth thing.

[Topaz]

Delt STs do not come off as feeling types but their social value really depends on what the environment calls for and whose doing the judging. I have and ESTJ friend who is a most welcome sight to me. He is usually friendly and upbeat and even when he's grouchy I find him very funny. I especially appreciate him in certain circumstances because I just know he's going to clear up confusion and get things in motion. I'm not very good at organizing groups but he loves to do it and is willing to listen to my suggestions if I have any. He is also super with directions and shortcuts. I cant find my way out of a plastic bag.
I have a friend who is ISTP and even though he is not warm in the way a feeler is, whenever I visit him he sees that I am fed and relaxed. Whenever we work together he gives me tips on what he knows and techniques he has found helpful. What else can I ask for?
In other words Delta STs can bring a sense of confidence to an atmosphere that may be floundering in a sea of indecision and inefficacy. Social value and trust doesnt always rest on being touchy feely, flowery with words, or funny and charming (not to say that ST types cant be those things as well heh heh but... oh you get it.

[kensi]

For dating, how would this work? Or would it work at all?

INFj looks for somebody who is a carrier of Te....and in the ENFp find someone who relies on Te activation thus sparking interest but it has an oscillating nature as activational energy cannot be boxed in as a normal state of being for the ENFP.... and vice versa for the INFj scenario thus creating a situation of mutual correction....i suppose it would work from what i can tell but i've also ran into some perplexing examples of where it didn't in other people.

[Elro]

I think meatburger is on hiatus, honestly.

Not gone permanently.

My understanding is that he intended to leave permanently, but there's always a chance he'll wander back.

[Topaz]

My understanding is that he intended to leave permanently, but there's always a chance he'll wander back.

Are you kidding me? I seriously doubt that he's really not checking in. He's just not logging on. He's so addicted he cant stay away. He can only pretend to. Hey Meaty! I know youre there Hahahhahahah.

[leckysupport]

Delt STs do not come off as feeling types but their social value really depends on what the environment calls for and whose doing the judging. I have and ESTJ friend who is a most welcome sight to me. He is usually friendly and upbeat and even when he's grouchy I find him very funny. I especially appreciate him in certain circumstances because I just know he's going to clear up confusion and get things in motion. I'm not very good at organizing groups but he loves to do it and is willing to listen to my suggestions if I have any. He is also super with directions and shortcuts. I cant find my way out of a plastic bag.
I have a friend who is ISTP and even though he is not warm in the way a feeler is, whenever I visit him he sees that I am fed and relaxed. Whenever we work together he gives me tips on what he knows and techniques he has found helpful. What else can I ask for?
In other words Delta STs can bring a sense of confidence to an atmosphere that may be floundering in a sea of indecision and inefficacy. Social value and trust doesnt always rest on being touchy feely, flowery with words, or funny and charming (not to say that ST types cant be those things as well heh heh but... oh you get it.

When I talk about warmth, trust and connectivity I mean sharing, telling emotionally significant stories about their past, sympathetic pearl clutching gestures etc. Without the warmth, you're not even going to start the connecting part because there will be no trust.

This is how human-beings like to believe they know someone (or trust them), so in terms of connectivity NF mirrors are more likely to 'connect' than with their duals or activators.

[napalm]

sympathetic pearl clutching gestures etc. Without the warmth, you're not even going to start the connecting part because there will be no trust.

z0mg! mah pearlz!!

This is how human-beings like to believe they know someone (or trust them)

No, that's how certain types like to believe they know or trust someone, not all of humanity. You're trying to fit triangular pegs into dodecagonal holes.

[leckysupport]

No, that's how certain types like to believe they know or trust someone, not all of humanity.

So how is it ethical types can gain the trust of more people than logical types?

[Topaz]

OK Lecky I understand what youre trying to say. Its true that STs are not going to move into personal intimacy right away. NFs are vampires for that sort of thing suck, suck, suck. (wait, considering this audience that may not sound right)
Nevertheless, depending on the person I may still trust and depend on an ST type more readily than a NF. Heres why. Delta NFs may be more transparent with their emotions and convictions but they are also apt to reveal too much which may not inspire confidence. They are complicated. STs are not so complicated with the way they see things. They are more straight forward and in the moment. They are also more likely to get into action and not spend time contemplating getting into action. So provided I see them as being honest and sincere I may not need to know their life story in the first hour I meet them.
So this is coming from me, an ENFP. Everybody is not me and may see things differently. Thats why I said it depends on whose doing the judging, what kind of information they are looking for in order to feel comfortable. For some, emotional stories, sponteneous actions, imaginative outpourings may be more reasuring. It may be that a Delta ST will be drawn to and trust a Delta NF more than their own type and visa versa. Maybe not.

[Beautiful sky]

so how does an INFj show they like someone? And what indicates they are just being polite?

We are terrible at it; the only way to know that an INFj likes you is if they say "hi" to you in private or they glance at you several times in a room and smile a very coy smile in the HOPES that you can walk over and say hi. Really, an initiative taking partner is just that, someone who jumps at saying hi to you when you're around to show you that they are giving you attention because they like you, otherwise, an INFj thinks that they aren't pretty enough to be said hi to or rather that someone's not interested in them. I find that when an LSE in on the prowl they can be very persuasive, convincing, charming, flirty and touching (actually touching you). I like that very much.