"What is the difference between 'oh' and 'eh'?" - Tao Te Ching
"What is the difference between 'oh' and 'eh'?" - Tao Te Ching
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
How does a Ti format generally appear? How can you normally spot a Ti format when you see one? I am sorry if this sounds like an interrogation; you are not being persecuted, but I am curious to learn about your experiences with Ti.Originally Posted by Sirena
I'm sorry to interject this with Te, but if you wish to see how Ti formats, you can view your own posts for instance for that. Surely you are able to see the difference between Ti and Te. You can view your own experiences as thus. You are repeating the same question over and if it's something specific, it would really help if you clarified, because what you are asking honestly is vague and repetitive. I understand it is perhaps a need to learn, but you are interrogating, or being lazy. The information is provided already. Perhaps it shows you do not value Te so much, if you cannont see this already.
Think about the differences within us
Although I understand that you're just trying to get more info on my perspective of Ti, it is quite unrealistic to expect me to try to simulate something that I'm not so good at or value. Not to mention that I would feel kind of defeated trying to explain myself in a "logical" way to someone that values Ti (because it is my PoLR perhaps). So, I'm afraid all I can do is again, tell you how it makes me feel. There is no clear-cut way in which I go about in trying to determine whether a post bugs me or not. This is not something I seek out. It just does or doesn't. Maybe it's the intuition thing? I guess if there is a way I could describe Ti is as impersonal and rigid and completely lacking in substance, which might be the reason I can't identify with it. It provides no real meaning to me because I don't find that it answers the "whys" and "hows." I'm not very confident on how well you can understand this explanation, but I'm afraid it's all I got for now.I do appreciate your curiousity in better understanding my perspective.
That's no more Te than a walrus is a fish. Sirena seems to understand what I am asking better than you do. Yes, I could observe the differences easily, but I am asking for an outsider's perspective of Ti. Clearly you do not value Te if you were unable to see that.
I am not asking you to either simulate what it looks like or explain it in a logical way. I am merely asking for you impressions of it from your experiences with it.
Interesting. The heart of Ti is very interested in the "why" and "how," so it is kind of puzzling that you think that you are unable to find that in Ti.I guess if there is a way I could describe Ti is as impersonal and rigid and completely lacking in substance, which might be the reason I can't identify with it. It provides no real meaning to me because I don't find that it answers the "whys" and "hows." I'm not very confident on how well you can understand this explanation, but I'm afraid it's all I got for now.
This is my point. Maybe Ti can provide this for you, but not for me. The way you process information is able to extract these things from it, which I am not able to do. It is about what we value, I guess.
Ti = A statement that only seems to make sense in the spouter's head.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
So what does the Te "why and how" provide for you?
why?how so?Sirena seems to understand what I am asking better than you do.ok so you could do it yourself as I surmised.Yes, I could observe the differences easily,To which you have had that question repeatedly answered here.but I am asking for an outsider's perspective of Ti.Why?Clearly you do not value Te if you were unable to see that.
You are misunderstanding what I mean by the "whys" and "hows." Oh God, I don't mean the theoretical, absolute explanations. This is exactly what I DON'T like. To me, it is always about how I can apply it in the real world (with people), looking at it any other way makes no sense to me...which is what bothers me about Ti. Te is able to provide ME with the whys and hows within a context I understand and relate to. Does that make sense?yes, it's not Fi.
Fe/Ti and Te/Fi... both might tend to see the other as being too "rigid" about things that "shouldn't" be.
you feel like it's not giving you Te?
Socionics is a Ti theoryTi attempts to explain the "whys" and the "hows"... Te is concerned less with finding out these "whys" and "hows" and more with finding out how this information can be utilized.
I don't think ENFps tend to want (or like!) the more definite or absolute explanations/answers, maybe? they may feel these things hinder them (correct me if I'm wrong, ENFps.)
I agree with everything else you said.
You don't understand the functions.
To add: I see Te as more "alive." It is something I can actually use in my life. Ti just sounds like a bunch of words that I can't do anything with.
You had a clear inability to see what I was asking and judge the external situation while also indulging in hyperbole, which is uncharacteristic of Te.
She appreciated my curiosity. She understands what I am trying to ask. She answered my question. Your post was neither helpful, necessary, nor informative.how so?
Quite the genius.ok so you could do it yourself as I surmised.
Not too much at all actually, and any Te scan through the thread should easily reveal that. Look at the context at what was said and the developments that led up to Sirena being asked. She was asked, because of her question below.To which you have had that question repeatedly answered here.
Why is it that every time I see an explanation from a Ti dominant I can't seem to be able to make myself read all the way through?!Natural born stupidity.Why?
Please stop revealing your stupidity in this matter any further. It is not knowledge about functions I am seeking, but a particular perspective, so please get your head out of your ass and look at what is plain to see.
Yes, and thank you. That was helpful and revealing. It does indeed match up with how most IEE see it. Although you have over 1,000 or so posts, I have not actually interacted with you too much or had the chance to observe your reactions to Ti, so this was a good way for me to assess your own character as well.
Rather understandable. But to provide you with my own perspective, Ti is almost like a magical maths formula that acts as a key to unlock all of the doors of the universe. Ti can be mind-numbingly complex, but it can also be extraordinarily simple.
So you think Te is mystically understanding what a person is trying to ask. Here you show where you do not understand.
How do you know she appreciates your curiousity? If she understands what you ask then why do you having to keep asking over and over? You say my post was neither helpful, necessary or informative, do you mean to you or to whomever else may read it? lol do I really care of your impression.She appreciated my curiosity. She understands what I am trying to ask. She answered my question. Your post was neither helpful, necessary, nor informative.
Yes!Quite the genius.
A Te scan? See above.Not too much at all actually, and any Te scan through the thread should easily reveal that. Look at the context at what was said and the developments that led up to Sirena being asked. She was asked, because of her question below.
You were given the perspective. The question then moves to your understanding. It's that simple. Your insults however are the most interesting part of your posts.Please stop revealing your stupidity in this matter any further. It is not knowledge about functions I am seeking, but a particular perspective, so please get your head out of your ass and look at what is plain to see.
No of course that is not just what Te is and that was only a bit of what I posted from my impression, but I would expect someone with strong Te to discern what was going on in the scenario, but I suppose you lack strongto accompany your
to be able to read the context. I did not repeat the same question over and over as you claim, so again such exaggeration is atypical for those with strong
Call it a hunch.How do you know she appreciates your curiousity?
I do appreciate your curiousity in better understanding my perspective.I did not ask the same question over and over. Her new posts brought with them a need for greater clarification and new questions. She may understand what I am asking, but that does not mean that she will answer in a way that fully satisfies my question. Is that really hard to understand? It is for you apparently.If she understands what you ask then why do you having to keep asking over and over?
Both.You say my post was neither helpful, necessary or informative, do you mean to you or to whomever else may read it?
A critical reading of the conversational dynamics complete with information gathering.A Te scan? If you can explain what you think Te is then you can elaborate on what a Te scan is.
Do not confuse my growing frustration and lack of patience with idiots as aggression. I provided you with my answer as to why I was asking Sirena instead of just reviewing functional knowledge. Move on. Or should I perhaps be unjustifiably skeptical at your level knowledge of Socionics too?What's with the aggression? You have been given a perspective. The question then moves to your understanding.
You may not realise it but it looks to others like you repeat the same question over. Don't take it defensively it's honestly an opportunity for growth.
I don't understand what you posted about Te. I don't see how that means I don't value it as you say.
And I think a lot of what you asked here is explainable with functional understanding. That's it. It's no big deal.
In regards to idiots, don't stress yourself out or just don't post as much.
Hey man, some people just need to remember live n let live eh cyclops?
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
Show me where I did as such.
I don't understand what you posted about Te. I don't see how that means I don't value it as you say.
But I was looking for a particular perspective understanding. I wanted to hear someone's own words and experiences (i.e. freshAnd I think a lot of what you asked here is explainable with functional understanding. That's it. It's no big deal.
Me posting less will not make the forum idiots disappear.In regards to idiots, don't stress yourself out or just don't post as much.
OMG Logos! Would you give it a rest? Why are you nitpicking everything said? You are, of course, entitled to do so. But it is at the point where I don't think it's contributing anything useful to the discussion. In Cyclops defense, I think he was simply stating his opinion of how he perceived your questions towards me. That's all. I was able to see your intentions/curiosity, maybe he wasn't. Big deal. It is obvious to me that someone who values Te>Ti would be able to "just get what I meant" in a way you weren't able to do and I think this is where he was coming from.
BTW, I'm glad my responses helped give you a better idea of my view of Ti and hence my character/way of seeing the world/processing information. I do truly appreciate and enjoy when I get to interact with someone new (to me) on the forum, so it was cool.
He nitpicks everything I say too, and I am the one who gets this harsh response? Where is my defense?
Don't worry Logos, your reaction is understandable and I think I probably would have reacted in the same way. The questions you were asking Sirena were relevant and useful, at least it seemed that way to me.
You started it.
No I don't. I was making a point on the thread, that's all. I'm hardly ever here to nitpick your posts, even if I was to do so.
I don't concur with what you are saying about Te. I would respond but I would worry you would see it in wrong way.
Sorry if you are upset. The answers to your questions seemed there already, to me, but they weren't to you. All I was trying to say is that if you developed your Te more then you would be better at picking out the existing empircal data already in the posts. That's all. Don't worry.
Seriously though, I thought you both made valid points. It just got to the point where the only purpose appeared to be "attacking the other person's point of view." So, we all got what we wanted. Let's just move on. That's all I'm saying. Nice talking to you Logos!
Not from where I stood.
There was no need to respond to that, not unless you would have liked me to have nitpicked that too.
So you claim, but the evidence is there. I have nitpicked no more than you have.
Developing my Te? Now you are belittling me. What I was looking for was not present already in the existing empirical data of this thread. There is no need to develop my already strong Te.Sorry if you are upset. The answers to your questions seemed there already, to me, but they weren't to you. All I was trying to say is that if you developed your Te more then you would be better at picking out the existing empircal data already in the posts. That's all. Don't worry.
But in the interests of Sirena, I will cease in this matter.
HeheheThere was no need to respond to that, not unless you would have liked me to have nitpicked that too.
Thanks!
Are you sure it's not your Se PoLR attacking when not needed? ok i'll try and be extra careful in future.
Honestly Logos, I'm not bellitiling youDeveloping my Te? Now you are belittling me. What I was looking for was not present already in the existing empirical data of this thread. There is no need to develop my already strong Te.
Then we can agree to disagree. It's coolBut in the interests of Sirena, I will cease in this matter.
Ti is superior to Te because Te is a function for Old Men who can no longer ejaculate properly.
It is a function that saves unnecessary loss of Manly Seed, and it is also the function for sneakiness, shadiness, and general sexlessness.
The worse kind of function Te can go with is Si. It just creates a general atmosphere of boredom, retardation, and rigid stupidity.
Consider creative Ti. It creates bombastic interest, rapid improvement, and rational sensibility.
Leave no questions unanswered, leave no stone unturned.
Ti>Te.
Naysayers will be burnt, starting from their genitals to the tip of their wasting hair and worn out soles.
TheBlueBlade, who hates you in general, but also agree with Ezra in terms of a rather unlikely argument in which both parties happen to coincide in opinion.
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
"Yes, it will be done."
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
Well, obviously they're both important, but as any type you'll place far more emphasis on one than you do the other, and you'll use it more (and want to use it more) than the other too.
lol
Woah, guys, pay close attention to this. This is supervision history in the making. I've never seen supervision so clear and obvious that Rick's description of it would jizz over the whole forum.OMG Logos! Would you give it a rest? Why are you nitpicking everything said? You are, of course, entitled to do so. But it is at the point where I don't think it's contributing anything useful to the discussion. In Cyclops defense, I think he was simply stating his opinion of how he perceived your questions towards me. That's all. I was able to see your intentions/curiosity, maybe he wasn't. Big deal. It is obvious to me that someone who values Te>Ti would be able to "just get what I meant" in a way you weren't able to do and I think this is where he was coming from.
BTW, I'm glad my responses helped give you a better idea of my view of Ti and hence my character/way of seeing the world/processing information. I do truly appreciate and enjoy when I get to interact with someone new (to me) on the forum, so it was cool.
yeah....the way to your Ti is through the back door of your Te. or something like that.
interesting that you find Ti rigid...i find Fi rigid. the 4th function/polr perceives such a narrow range of information that any information it does perceive it can only metabolize in a rigid way. that's why we are so stuck with our 4th functions. they are not at all flexible, creative, or expansive.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Very interesting point! Would you say that the PoLR function is the one one would always characterize this way? As rigid? Because I can't think of a better word to use to describe my perception of Ti. I'm also interested to know how someone with Fi PoLR would experience Fi as rigid, if you feel like sharing. This is interesting.
Ti is 'static' and Te is 'dynamic'
Ti creates a system and once is created it clings to. Rejecting any information that comes it's way that doesn't agree with this system.
Te is aware that situations change depending on further information. It is able to re-assess things on the basis of changing and increasing information.
You make Ti sound ignorant and stupidly rigid.
Ti is the reason why you have Te, you ignorant bitches.
Think about it, if there were no laws and precepts in your head, no 'common sense' that told you that things worked this way, no inductive principles and deductive conjunctures that exist in the deep recesses of your think skull, you can't give Te (which is basically a whole host of uselessly fluctuating logic about how to make things work) to weak minded types such as IEE, for example in telling them that this is the way to open a fucking door. And yes if you're an SLI, you'll show them, or tell them in the most boring way possible.
Ti on the other hand, actually understands WHY the doorknob opens the door when it's fucking turned. This means that a Ti person can repro-fucking-duce a door knob, while the silly Te valuing types just wow at the way the doorknob turns and the door suddenly opens.
Fucking stupid.
But anyway, Ti without Te is useless. You can't create something with only it's skeleton. Sometimes you need a little bit of flesh.
But I feel, the flesh is weak, without the bone.
And the bone is nothing without the flesh.
Both are interdependent on each other, but if you're asking my opinion, of which I have already given reasons to substantiate, I'm saying no thank you to the penile little delta pussies who always claim that they are too stupid to understand Ti. Sorry for the bad grammar. Oh wait, did I just apologize? What a pussy I am.
Anyway, my personal opinion, which is the only right opinion, is this: Ti>Te.
Sorry bitches. Go cry alone.
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
Why the fuck am I ESE?
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
for my relationships, i try to treat everybody the same, with common decency, because, really everybody is the same. we all have an equal right to exist on the planet and, ideally, no one should be any higher than anybody else. i'll be equally honest with almost everybody, unless the person has really proven themselves to be untrustworthy. so when Fi types come in with with judgments about how people should be treated and how i should say or do thus and such it feels overbearing and rigid to me. like why do i have to follow some kind of prescription about how i interact with people? it bothers me when Fi dominants treat everybody differently it's like they way they act reflects a social hierarchy, which is antithetical to an open democratic stance that i prefer to take. Fi judgments feel like rules and i hate the idea that i have to follow rules when i interact with people. i'd rather just do what i do. even though i can kind of see the Fi dominant's point....i just can't do things the way they do. and it bothers me that they see my Ti as rigid, when creative Ti is pretty flexible way of looking at the world of facts, theories, and logic. if a system doesn't work, i'll throw it out i a heartbeat. you can create all kinds of systems to explain things or make them work. you can intertwine theories and make them complement each other. you can do research which explains something in a totally new way.
so i guess sirena it's a combination of things. it's like an Fi will judge my Ti to be rigid and i get offended by this. and i get offended by their "rules" about Fi or their thoughts about how i interact with people, which come across as judgments to me. and the judgment is more often than not, a negative evaluation of me as a person.
Last edited by Blaze; 07-14-2008 at 05:44 PM.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I think actually extrovered thinkers with their Fi can be too subjective and that the combination can also lead to narcissism. Now everybody, if you look at Model B, contains both combinations. So people might be more ourtwardly difficult or more privately, unconsciously, or more so in how they live. I'm stubborn and can be very lazy, but to me Te Fi can be creul, a pain in the ass, too subjective and unable to follow logic, etc (although i've seen pretty good deduction skills, too, and analysis, but I dont know if that's due to the consciouis Te Fi or the less conscious Ti Fe). Again, on some level I think we're all Te and Fi and Ti and Fe.
Lefty
ENFJ
"I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.
Am I ESE?
No.
Piss off.
She is wiseWhy I love LSEs:
beyond words
beautiful within
her soul
brighter than
the sun
lovelier than
love
dreams larger
than life
and does not
understand the
meaning of no.
Because everything
through her, and in her, is
A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!
I was contemplating what I said here about Ti being better than Te, and all those who shunned my explanation saying "that's not Ti" can fuck off. Because their explanations were non-existent.
Maybe so, but I think the essence of Te is still about causal processes. gamma NT's may be more conceptual about it, and use it more within "time" (back-and-forth in processes), whereas delta ST's would be more concerned with a sort of present-based, observational understanding (absorbing in the details more....TeSi = death zomggg), but yeah....Te is awesome, I fucking love my polr
4w3-5w6-8w7
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