SEIs-ISFps and unemployment/joblessness

[Dinosaur]

Little background info; my brother is ISFP 26 years old.

He's been unemployed for approximately 10 months, well not unemployed since he's not looking for one. His daily schedule is waking up around 10 or 11oclock, then watching some tv and movies online and going out at around 5pm to go to the gym or hang out with his esfj bestfriend. He mostly goes out at that particularly time to avoid talking to dad who is ISFJ coming home from work. naturally there's conflict.

He has a good comp-sci degree and could easily find work if he chose to. He complain that his back hurts and that he has no luck. This is partly due to him being laid off due to his job being shipped to India. The part about luck doesn't sit well with me because I think you are partially responsible for your own luck. If you do nothing then nothing happens, no?

He has about 20,000 dollars and seems pretty content about that fact which I think assures him that he really doesn't have to do anything right now. He pays no rent or utilities so that amount could go for a long time. He seems stuck in a rut and I want to help him get going, and this is the money question, how can I help him get moving and be more active? I dont want any silly answers please(SEI and ambition thread didnt talk about ambitions at all, ironic?)

he was talking about moving out couple of months ago, since he and ISFJ dad do not get along at all, and I do think that this will help him in a way. But that 20k is not that much money without a job, we live in a pretty expensive city, Im thinking this scenario will pretty much force him to get a job which will help him in the end? surround himself with other Alpha or Fe types? As of now, i think moving out is the best option for him. all he really seem to want is to laugh and joke around.

So, you can speak now. Im an istp if you are curious.

[Mr Saturn]

I know this isn't the most constructive of help but I would like to offer what's on my mind.

There is a book called The Film Club whereby a father lets his son drop out of school and stay at home on the condition that the son allows his father to show him 3 films a week.

It's a really interesting concept, the idea that cinema can influence and change ideologies. I haven't read the book either so the consequences could be uninteresting also.

But you know, it's worth a try.

[Ms. Kensington]

hm.. well the thing is an isfp is going to do what they want to do and he'll change if he is unhappy, not because someone else thinks hes in a rut. or else unless people around him are unhappy. he'll react positively to the first circumstance not the second, rather just withdraw imo

i would say "i dont think you ought to keep doing this. its fine to take some time off but 20K will last you x months. you have x months to stay here but after that we wont let you stay here anymore. if you need help with ideas on how to move on to what you want or want to help me in my next venture, let me know. let's go on a short trip it'll do us good".

[Wynch]

My advice is going to be lame, but here goes. We alphas need to be self motivated or we're hard to budge on things, so you need to give him something to motivate him. Talk to your dad. Remind him that your brother is 26 and sitting on enough money that the average single person can get by on for a year Regardless of the fact that he's at "home," he has everything he needs to start a career and make enough money to survive on his own, therefore he should not have a free ride any more. As much as you might love him, all you're doing by letting him stay home for free is encouraging a path of failure. Even if you give him cheap rent, at least he's contributing.

[Blaze]

is he smoking weed? if so he'll never get moving.

if he's not, then he needs some Ne. ideas possibilities etc likely will motivate him. plus some expectations and consequences from your dad would help as in you have to start contributing to the household. his money will run out fast then and he'll have to do something. that creative Se dad has will likely make things uncomfortable enough i'd think.

[redbaron]

hm.. well the thing is an isfp is going to do what they want to do and he'll change if he is unhappy, not because someone else thinks hes in a rut. or else unless people around him are unhappy. he'll react positively to the first circumstance not the second, rather just withdraw imo

yes, yes. I love SEIs but they can be a stubborn lot, especially Si subtype. *sigh* Their actions are self-motivated unless you make the atmosphere so stifling as to be uncomfortable either emotionally or physically. That can get them moving real fast. Bottom line: they'll do what they want.

[Wynch]

Oh, you want to know how to get him to be more ACTIVE? Like, physically active? Well, you're in the wrong quadra, my friend, and you're projecting your values there on your brother. Here in alpha we're only big on physical activity if there's something particularly interesting involved for us. Some kind of spark of adventure. Especially we irrationals. If you want him to be more active you have to turn it into something unstructured. Even then a lot of it depends on the individual. Unless our fickle sense of self-motivation is rolling, you're going to have a hard time convincing us to do something we don't enjoy. That or that has to be immediate consequences. This has been my experience.

[Rubicon]

Oh, you want to know how to get him to be more ACTIVE? Like, physically active? Well, you're in the wrong quadra, my friend, and you're projecting your values there on your brother. Here in alpha we're only big on physical activity if there's something particularly interesting involved for us. Some kind of spark of adventure. Especially we irrationals. If you want him to be more active you have to turn it into something unstructured. Even then a lot of it depends on the individual. Unless our fickle sense of self-motivation is rolling, you're going to have a hard time convincing us to do something we don't enjoy. That or that has to be immediate consequences. This has been my experience.

She has a point. You can get active if you want to gain strength or something. Like I do. I run a kilometer every day.

[Mediator Kam]

I agree with Mn0good - talk to your dad and tell him that he needs to start charging your brother rent. And I don't know what your relationship with your brother's like, but have you tried talking to him yourself? I would suggest trying to inspire him by asking him about his goals and dreams and stuff like that.

If that fails, give him the blast of his life and leave him to his own devices. Often, knowing that everyone thinks you're a failure and has no hope for you is the biggest motivator ever for a SEI, because we're stubborn and want to prove everyone wrong.

[Rubicon]

And I don't know what your relationship with your brother's like, but have you tried talking to him yourself? I would suggest trying to inspire him by asking him about his goals and dreams and stuff like that.

Maybe she's afraid of what the SEI might do, like cut off their food supply or something.

[Mediator Kam]

Maybe she's afraid of what the SEI might do, like cut off their food supply or something.

I thought Dinosaur was a he, but maybe that's just an assumption born of my subconscious thinking dinosaurs=aggression=male ...

[calenwen]

Everyone has made excellent points.
Your brother sounds very comfortable. You/your dad need to do something to jolt him out of this (having him pay rent or do mundane household chores, for example). I know that if my parents allowed me to do whatever I wanted around the house I would probably be sorely tempted to live there, but no, I would be expected to pay rent and also to play by their rules, thus I have never desired to live at home because I know it would be uncomfortable. Their strictness motivated me to go out live independently.

[Rubicon]

I thought Dinosaur was a he, but maybe that's just an assumption born of my subconscious thinking dinosaurs=aggression=male ...

I DON'T WANNA HEAR YOUR TE.

[Mediator Kam]

I DON'T WANNA HEAR YOUR TE.

I'm sorely tempted to respond with a witticism that will blow your socks off, but I won't because this is A SERIOUS THREAD. OK?

[Rubicon]

I'm sorely tempted to respond with a witticism that will blow your socks off, but I won't because this is A SERIOUS THREAD. OK?

I think the SEI in question should teach Kamangir a little about loosening up and having fun with life. Not everything has to be serious you know.

[cracka]

hmm. First off... How does a 26 year old have $20K. I wish I was good enough with money to just have that much to use. Maybe I just like having bills and awesome toasters...lol.

The answer to this will help me determine what I think you should do.

1. He got it as a gift or someone died and left it to him.
If this is the case, then I'd say it would be a good idea to get him off his ass, but it has to be something that he "wants" to do, not something you and your father want him to do "just because" he's not doing shit.

2. He made the money himself somehow and is now just sitting on it and stretching it out cuz he can.
If this is the case, who are you and your father to say shit... he's obviously done something right and now he's just enjoying it. Why not.

Actually, that may be personal and I really don't care... I asked the question more to be a smart ass and ask question #2 there. Ok, either way though... It comes down to him actually wanting to do something else with his own life. I think you should just let him talk to Bionicgoat here, they'd probably get along well...lol.

[Mediator Kam]

I think the SEI in question should teach Kamangir a little about loosening up and having fun with life. Not everything has to be serious you know.

That I should live to see the day when someone tells ME to loosen up. I am on my way to being an LIE! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Go back to juggling your oranges or something ...

[munenori2]

Little background info; my brother is ISFP 26 years old.

He's been unemployed for approximately 10 months, well not unemployed since he's not looking for one. His daily schedule is waking up around 10 or 11oclock, then watching some tv and movies online and going out at around 5pm to go to the gym or hang out with his esfj bestfriend. He mostly goes out at that particularly time to avoid talking to dad who is ISFJ coming home from work. naturally there's conflict.

He has a good comp-sci degree and could easily find work if he chose to. He complain that his back hurts and that he has no luck. This is partly due to him being laid off due to his job being shipped to India. The part about luck doesn't sit well with me because I think you are partially responsible for your own luck. If you do nothing then nothing happens, no?

He has about 20,000 dollars and seems pretty content about that fact which I think assures him that he really doesn't have to do anything right now. He pays no rent or utilities so that amount could go for a long time. He seems stuck in a rut and I want to help him get going, and this is the money question, how can I help him get moving and be more active? I dont want any silly answers please(SEI and ambition thread didnt talk about ambitions at all, ironic?)

he was talking about moving out couple of months ago, since he and ISFJ dad do not get along at all, and I do think that this will help him in a way. But that 20k is not that much money without a job, we live in a pretty expensive city, Im thinking this scenario will pretty much force him to get a job which will help him in the end? surround himself with other Alpha or Fe types? As of now, i think moving out is the best option for him. all he really seem to want is to laugh and joke around.

So, you can speak now. Im an istp if you are curious.

Damn, your bro sounds like an even less self-accountable version of myself. I'm no SEI, but the way you describe his living conditions strikes me as extremely comfortable (very few restraints, comfort, free of charge). Why would he go job-searching and risk messing with the good setup? Granted he should and must realize the imposition he's putting on everyone else. His respective pot needs to be stirred, so to speak.

I doubt he's really so oblivious that he's completely ignorant of this fact, but maybe he doesn't care as much as I'd hope seeing as how there's been friction between him and your father over the issue. What's lacking for him sounds like a lack of urgency. He should be paying rent, he should be pitching in on utilities and groceries. When his account dwindles, I'd expect him to become more serious about the whole finding a job thing. However, it might be wise to tell him to accelerate that search because when he does finally ease his way back into the job market, it might be hard to explain 10 months of joblessness, much less a year or more if he keeps putting it off to the bitter end.

On the other hand, I don't really know the situation or the people involved well enough to say whether that piece of advice would suffice, much less succeed. From my experience, I'd conjecture he just needs a kick in the pants, some advice on how and where to get started, and a cognizance that his action or inaction is going to be accompanied by clear and definite consequences. Hearing about your brother makes me kind of antsy about my own situation though. I kind of feel like my family's started to give me the 'why aren't you employed' sort of look too.

[Wynch]

That I should live to see the day when someone tells ME to loosen up. I am on my way to being an LIE! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Go back to juggling your oranges or something ...

You WANT to be LIE?

How can we be duals now? You are disowned
*sad beep*

[Mediator Kam]

You WANT to be LIE?

How can we be duals now? You are disowned
*sad beep*

*sadder bleat*

[Khola aka Bee]

*Air Horn*

Sorry, I'm a bit mental today. Possibly I loosened up a little too much.

[Ms. Kensington]

His respective pot needs to be stirred, so to speak.

pretty much

i think this sort of thing works with me too. i have been trying to think of a formula that would apply to myself but i cant figure it out. it's mysterious how i just get eureka moments of motivation.

i liked your entire response, munenori.

[Dinosaur]

Thanks for your replies. Some of them were pretty awesome and I've implemented a few.

To fill in some of the blanks, my brother and I have a good relationship. I should have been clearer about the source of frustration. My father is an ISFJ, a strict disciplinarian. He is a difficult person for almost anyone, let alone an ISFP. They do not talk at all except when my brother greets him when he comes home from work. Alot of times, my father doesn't even acknowledge the greeting. However, this is not that unusual since he has done this ever since I can remember. There's alot of animosity between the two and it only gets compounded by my brother's unwillingness to have a career or some sort of direction. And therelies my frustration.

Anyway, my brother is talking about going to New York to see his friend again, and perhaps taking a trip with me somewhere. He really wants to have a little trip since he recently got his degree after 8 years, lol Things are looking up. Im a guy by the way. This thread is done. or not. do what you want.