Type Reconsideration (And For Good Reason)

[Ezra]

Something interesting has come up.

Ezra, (as diplomatically as possible) you are not an ESTp. You do not understand them at all. Honestly, everytime you post about them, you are way off.

Have you checked into ESTj again?

I've never met an ExTx that succumbed to resitrictive parents. Usually they are able to get their own way, even through physical fighting if needed.

Again, this is what I was thinking.

An SLE who, it seems, you cannot see if they like you or not, is probably not an SLE. Maybe an ESTP in MBTT, but certainly not an SLE.

Ezra, cut this shit out. You have absolutely no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Two members of this forum, both of which I assume are SLEs, have claimed I am not SLE. This is a pretty good factual basis for my not being an SLE.

Also, when I met Expat in a pub on Thursday, he said he thought I was SLE, and also said that my split between LSE or SLE made no sense, because it implied a confliction of quadra values, which is illogical. After giving me a brief summary of each quadra's core kind of 'motto', I said I was neither Beta or Delta, but closer to Gamma. He then told me that my life plan, which is to get into law, and become a barrister, was not incompatible with Beta. I'll give you a brief summary of the decent quadra motivations he came up with as best I can (from memory):

Alpha: to enjoy life and all the pleasures it can offer
Beta: to increase personal power in order to achieve a vision
Gamma: to become wealthy with a significant other
Delta: to serve and protect

Basically, my life plan is to become a barrister, but until someone says "get up and get yourself into gear", right now, I'm just happy chilling and talking to many different people and watching films and playing games. I'm taking life relatively easy, but I am working. Basically, I do what is required of me - no more, no less, then I switch off. This is pretty much my life summed up in a sentence. It is boring, yes, but it works, and I am happy with it. Peace to you all.

[aestrivex]

you are putting far too much stock in these two isolated comments to reconsider your type solely on the basis of them. the one from herzy doesn't even suggest that you are not SLE, but merely that you have some insane ideas, which should be common knowledge for any sane individual.

as for zenbrat: who is zenbrat again?

[liveandletlive]

look over the functions again... ESTps and ESTjs use completely different functions... are you good at explaining things? feel a propensity to protect others? do you feel like you're controlling? do you joke around in the kind of pat on the back way (if that makes any sense)? are you good at knowing what needs to be done, telling people to do it and getting it done? are you still somewhat laid back during this process? do you consider yourself hard-working; especially making sure you're consistent with your morals?

OR
are you more out for yourself; you figure if you don't take it someone else will. Are you able to get along with pretty much anyone? Are you able to get a whole bunch of people together? Are you somewhat forgiving vs. resolute in your values/beliefs? do you seem to know a lot of people everywhere you go and everyone knows you? is it sometimes a little too easy for you to screw people over? Do you like money, power, prestige, and other materialistic things which are your main motivators that drive you in life?

These may seem a little obvious and you've probably thought about them but still... might help...

[Ezra]

you are putting far too much stock in these two isolated comments to reconsider your type solely on the basis of them. the one from herzy doesn't even suggest that you are not SLE, but merely that you have some insane ideas, which should be common knowledge for any sane individual.

Basically, I think what Herzy was implying was that when I commented on the SLE, I didn't know what I was talking about. And how could I not know what I was talking about if I was SLE? Simple. I'm not. Surely it is either the conception of myself or of the SLE that is skewered. Since I know exactly who and what I am, it clearly is the SLE. These aren't the first comments I've received about SLE either. Apart from the hail of fire from the likes of George, Fabio and others, two IEIs have said how misinformed I am about what attracts Beta visually.

I'm also considering LSI. Is this a possibility? Yes. More likely than SLE? I don't know.

[aestrivex]

you are putting far too much stock in these two isolated comments to reconsider your type solely on the basis of them. the one from herzy doesn't even suggest that you are not SLE, but merely that you have some insane ideas, which should be common knowledge for any sane individual.

Basically, I think what Herzy was implying was that when I commented on the SLE, I didn't know what I was talking about. And how could I not know what I was talking about if I was SLE? Simple. I'm not.

this is obviously a difficult concept, so i will attempt to explain it to you. the fundamental concept of logical discourse is that one sentence should have some explicit organizational connection with the previous sentence. put even more simply, one sentence should follow from the idea of the previous sentence.


now that you have heard of this exceedingly complex principle, please make an attempt to utilize it in the future.

[Ezra]

look over the functions again... ESTps and ESTjs use completely different functions... are you good at explaining things? feel a propensity to protect others? do you feel like you're controlling? do you joke around in the kind of pat on the back way (if that makes any sense)? are you good at knowing what needs to be done, telling people to do it and getting it done? are you still somewhat laid back during this process? do you consider yourself hard-working; especially making sure you're consistent with your morals?

OR
are you more out for yourself; you figure if you don't take it someone else will. Are you able to get along with pretty much anyone? Are you able to get a whole bunch of people together? Are you somewhat forgiving vs. resolute in your values/beliefs? do you seem to know a lot of people everywhere you go and everyone knows you? is it sometimes a little too easy for you to screw people over? Do you like money, power, prestige, and other materialistic things which are your main motivators that drive you in life?

These may seem a little obvious and you've probably thought about them but still... might help...

Basically, LALL, you said it in the first sentence. And did you not read what I said? It is exactly the same as what you have said. It's not a consideration between SLE and LSE. LSEs are very admirable, but I'd be lying if I said I was one. From a dichotomical point of view, it's very likely that I am an ESTJ in MBTT. But concerning socionics, the likelihood of my being a Delta full stop is low.

[liveandletlive]

look over the functions again... ESTps and ESTjs use completely different functions... are you good at explaining things? feel a propensity to protect others? do you feel like you're controlling? do you joke around in the kind of pat on the back way (if that makes any sense)? are you good at knowing what needs to be done, telling people to do it and getting it done? are you still somewhat laid back during this process? do you consider yourself hard-working; especially making sure you're consistent with your morals?

OR
are you more out for yourself; you figure if you don't take it someone else will. Are you able to get along with pretty much anyone? Are you able to get a whole bunch of people together? Are you somewhat forgiving vs. resolute in your values/beliefs? do you seem to know a lot of people everywhere you go and everyone knows you? is it sometimes a little too easy for you to screw people over? Do you like money, power, prestige, and other materialistic things which are your main motivators that drive you in life?

These may seem a little obvious and you've probably thought about them but still... might help...

Basically, LALL, you said it in the first sentence. And did you not read what I said? It is exactly the same as what you have said. It's not a consideration between SLE and LSE. LSEs are very admirable, but I'd be lying if I said I was one. From a dichotomical point of view, it's very likely that I am an ESTJ in MBTT. But concerning socionics, the likelihood of my being a Delta full stop is low.

so you're still thinking beta?

[Joy]

Gamma: to become wealthy with a significant other

lol that's awesome

[liveandletlive]

Gamma: to become wealthy with a significant other

lol that's awesome

haha i no rite!

[Park]

Delta: to serve and protect.

I have heard that before, but... I would really appreciate it if someone could elaborate how this relates to Delta values and quadra motto.(?) It sounds too vague in the way it's written.

[aut0]

Delta: to serve and protect.

I have heard that before, but... I would really appreciate it if someone could elaborate how this relates to Delta values and quadra motto.(?) It sounds too vague in the way it's written.

Isn't that the NYPD's motto?

[Phaedrus]

I'm also considering LSI. Is this a possibility? Yes. More likely than SLE? I don't know.

How can you not know that? That's insane. If you don't whether you are most likely an LSI or an SLE, you don't know anything for sure about the types. You haven't got a clue. Anything you say must then be regarded with suspicion, and the only somewhat reliable information about your type are your test results.

[Gilly]

LSI is my best bet. For now.

[aestrivex]

I'm also considering LSI. Is this a possibility? Yes. More likely than SLE? I don't know.

How can you not know that? That's insane. If you don't whether you are most likely an LSI or an SLE, you don't know anything for sure about the types. You haven't got a clue. Anything you say must then be regarded with suspicion, and the only somewhat reliable information about your type are your test results.

ummm wtf. LSI/SLE is mirror. those types are from the same quadra and share many of the same values. this might be a more legitimate observation if he said he was stuck between SLE/EII or something. how in hell can the same be applied to mirror types?

[Gilly]

Can we all take a moment to step back and appreciate what an enormous idiot Phaedrus is?

[liveandletlive]

lol... even though that comment was dumb doesn't mean he's an idiot

[aestrivex]

lol... even though that comment was dumb doesn't mean he's an idiot

regardless of that comment, he is an idiot.

[Gilly]

lol... even though that comment was dumb doesn't mean he's an idiot

My comment was based on much more than that one fine piece of Phaedery, believe you me.

[Kristiina]

lol... even though that comment was dumb doesn't mean he's an idiot

My comment was based on much more than that one fine piece of Phaedery, believe you me.

lol


Ezra, it is possible that you are ESTp. But you seem quite unpredictable to me so I wouldn't say you're ISTj. EP temperament or a very chaotic variety of EJ temperament, but not IJ.

[Phaedrus]

Can we all take a moment to step back and appreciate what an enormous idiot Phaedrus is?

Yeah, that's a good idea. He surely must be an unimaginably enormous idiot if he continues to waste his time participating in the extremly low level "discussions" taking place at the16types forum.

[Expat]

ummm wtf. LSI/SLE is mirror. those types are from the same quadra and share many of the same values. this might be a more legitimate observation if he said he was stuck between SLE/EII or something. how in hell can the same be applied to mirror types?

Simple -- Phaedrus thinks that the four dichotomies are more reliable for typing than quadra values, so to him, you could never be torn between IJ and EP.

Which is not a proof of idiocy as such, just that he hasn't understood what socionics is truly about.

[Ezra]

so you're still thinking beta?

The thing about Beta is that many Betas think I am not. Whenever I express any sentiments concerning Betas, I seem to come under fire. Also, in the Beta images, people seem to think a guy with a gas mask who has a stab wound is in some way appealing. In the same way that A-K or snegledmaca find the picture of the Commando and of King Leonidas repellent (which I, on the contrary, find aesthetically rich and appealing):

guess I'll never really understand "beta" values, then. Because those images are really quite repellent to me. There's nothing I value about military/camo/big guns and epic battle bloodlust. I prefer my passion much less martial.

Same here. I can't believe people are actually serious when suggesting those things.

I too dislike their over-the-top and overly dramatic expressions of... I have no idea what this is trying to express.

[img][/img]

At least with my pictures you can see a clear definition of what they are trying to portray: toughness, aggression, and outright confidence. I just see these emo-laden pictures of that man in particular (not Bowie, the other one) as infuriating, and I don't know why.

Also, the music that Betas seem to love, again I find irritating. It's like they're trying to express their anger or something through music, but the way they do it I find extremely off-putting. As I've said in the past, my favourite music goes something along the lines of this. I think the people who have commented on it - like SL, for example - make very significant observations.

[Ezra]

I'm also considering LSI. Is this a possibility? Yes. More likely than SLE? I don't know.

How can you not know that? That's insane. If you don't whether you are most likely an LSI or an SLE, you don't know anything for sure about the types. You haven't got a clue. Anything you say must then be regarded with suspicion, and the only somewhat reliable information about your type are your test results.

Phaedrus, I am on a completely different wavelength to you.

The way I see it is like this:

- If one considers the quadras, one will choose one.
- Within this quadra, there are two pairs which represent two clubs, or two dominant functions.
- Since both SLE and LSI are dominant in Se and Ti, it is easy to confuse them.

[Joy]

I'm also considering LSI. Is this a possibility? Yes. More likely than SLE? I don't know.

How can you not know that? That's insane. If you don't whether you are most likely an LSI or an SLE, you don't know anything for sure about the types. You haven't got a clue. Anything you say must then be regarded with suspicion, and the only somewhat reliable information about your type are your test results.

Mirror types are the most logical types to have to decide between for those who know anything about Socionics. It makes a fuck of a lot more sense than being stuck between quasis, contraries, or even look alikes or mirrors.

[snegledmaca]

so you're still thinking beta?

The thing about Beta is that many Betas think I am not. Whenever I express any sentiments concerning Betas, I seem to come under fire. Also, in the Beta images, people seem to think a guy with a gas mask who has a stab wound is in some way appealing. In the same way that A-K or snegledmaca find the picture of the Commando and of King Leonidas repellent (which I, on the contrary, find aesthetically rich and appealing):

It's not the images themselves, it's what they represent. If it's any consolation, I was going to post a comment on those gas mask pictures about how deeply unsettling they were, more then your pictures, I can't even look at them, but that was on an irrational basis, while yours was a rational one, so in the end I didn't comment.

[Phaedrus]

Mirror types are the most logical types to have to decide between for those who know anything about Socionics. It makes a fuck of a lot more sense than being stuck between quasis, contraries, or even look alikes or mirrors.

Totally false. That only makes sense if you only look at the functions and the quadras. Of course their thinking processes are similar, but they are extremely different in a lot of other respects. If people are so narrowminded that they refuse to look at anything else but the functions and make the quadras their starting point in the typing process, of course they will be completely blind to the truth. It is only an incompetent socionist that could mistake one mirror for the other. They are extremely easy do separate.

[Ezra]

I'm going to try something else. Please throw away all preconceptions you have of me for this.

I have two friends, both of which I am 95% certain that they are IEE and LII. I get on well with both of them; much better than they get on with each other (although they are beginning to appreciate one another). We used to hang around a lot with each other and take pictures until I went to uni, LII went to uni, and IEE stayed at home. Prior to this, IEE left his own home, and went to live (lodge) at LII's house. When I say I get on well with them, I mean we're good friends - genuinely good friends. Good friends in the way that, a conflicting pair, for example, could not be.

Now I'll describe my relationship with each of them.

I've been very good friends with LII for about seven years, after I reunited with him at secondary school (I used to play with him as a four year old). I don't tell him absolutely everything (a) that is a girl thing and b) there are things I tell no one), but I trust him completely. He used to comment me on the way I was quite unstructured in my thinking, in comparison with his clear, methodical and systematic way of thinking. When I debate with him, if I'm thinking clearly enough, I will end up finding a flaw in his reasoning, but for the most part, his logic is like an inpenetrable fortress, and I think he takes pride in that. It's hard if not impossible to get him to admit that he is wrong, incorrect or flawed in his logic. We talk a lot into the early hours, primarily about our opinions on everything about life, and always have done. I've never been at a loss as to what to say to him. We only really tire of each other's company after having spent more than three or four days straight around each other. He comments on my practicality, especially in comparison with himself, who is pitifully incapable of menial household tasks. I'm always happy to help him out though. I appreciate his consistency of behaviour immensely. You know exactly what you're getting with him. This is one of the things that puts him off about my IEE friend; IEE is completely inconsistent. I don't have too much of a problem with it, but LII despises it, especially when it is characterised by a variety of facades and irritating attitudes towards life. LII doesn't really have a firm career plan. He thinks he might stay in academia long-term, and lecture or something. I don't like the way he has no ambition, but can respect his choices nonetheless.

My relationship with IEE has been strange. I've been friends with him for about eleven years. However, all through primary (elementary in the US?) school, he manipulated me and fucked me about quite extensively. Because I was naive and knew no better, I remained friends with him. He was incompetent; you might say almost bipolar. I put up with his shit for about four years. It was only in the first few years of high school that our relationship began to change. He became more consistent, probably because I confronted him more overtly on his behaviour, which in the last four years he has made a huge effort to change. I love having discussions with him, and I love hanging around with him, because he's fantastic company. He's a 7w6, so there's never a shortage of ideas of what to do when we're together. His unpredictability is something that does not concern me, even though I like the predictability I find in the LII. One thing LII and IEE do agree one is how in conversation, I am very single-minded and unwilling to consider others' views. I have to make a conscious effort to do so - which they appreciate - and which, interestingly, I feel good about. I get no end of pleasure talking about IEE's plans for the future with him - he wants to become a film director and share his views on life with everyone. He's a bit elitist, in that he says "a minority will understand my films and the messages behind them. I want to bridge the gap between mainstream and arthouse cinema". He's a big fan of Kevin Smith, because he thinks Smith has done something similar to this. IEE generally gives off the air that he is a bad listener and someone who is imperceptive. However, often he comes out with some very insightful observations, by which I am fascinated.

[Ezra]

so you're still thinking beta?

The thing about Beta is that many Betas think I am not. Whenever I express any sentiments concerning Betas, I seem to come under fire. Also, in the Beta images, people seem to think a guy with a gas mask who has a stab wound is in some way appealing. In the same way that A-K or snegledmaca find the picture of the Commando and of King Leonidas repellent (which I, on the contrary, find aesthetically rich and appealing):

It's not the images themselves, it's what they represent. If it's any consolation, I was going to post a comment on those gas mask pictures about how deeply unsettling they were, more then your pictures, I can't even look at them, but that was on an irrational basis, while yours was a rational one, so in the end I didn't comment.

But you say "deeply unsettling" while I think "annoyingly over-expressive".

[Phaedrus]

I've been very good friends with LII for about seven years, after I reunited with him at secondary school (I used to play with him as a four year old). I don't tell him absolutely everything (a) that is a girl thing and b) there are things I tell no one), but I trust him completely. He used to comment me on the way I was quite unstructured in my thinking, in comparison with his clear, methodical and systematic way of thinking. When I debate with him, if I'm thinking clearly enough, I will end up finding a flaw in his reasoning, but for the most part, his logic is like an inpenetrable fortress, and I think he takes pride in that. It's hard if not impossible to get him to admit that he is wrong, incorrect or flawed in his logic. We talk a lot into the early hours, primarily about our opinions on everything about life, and always have done. I've never been at a loss as to what to say to him. We only really tire of each other's company after having spent more than three or four days straight around each other. He comments on my practicality, especially in comparison with himself, who is pitifully incapable of menial household tasks. I'm always happy to help him out though. I appreciate his consistency of behaviour immensely. You know exactly what you're getting with him. This is one of the things that puts him off about my IEE friend; IEE is completely inconsistent. I don't have too much of a problem with it, but LII despises it, especially when it is characterised by a variety of facades and irritating attitudes towards life. LII doesn't really have a firm career plan. He thinks he might stay in academia long-term, and lecture or something. I don't like the way he has no ambition, but can respect his choices nonetheless.

Based on how you describe your friend here, it is much more likely that he is an ILI than an LII. Everything you say there suggests ILI > LII. And if he is an ILI, the likelihood of you being an LIE increases again.

[Ezra]

If people are so narrowminded that they refuse to look at anything else but the functions and make the quadras their starting point in the typing process, of course they will be completely blind to the truth.

WRONG.

[Joy]

Mirror types are the most logical types to have to decide between for those who know anything about Socionics. It makes a fuck of a lot more sense than being stuck between quasis, contraries, or even look alikes or mirrors.

Totally false. That only makes sense if you only look at the functions and the quadras. Of course their thinking processes are similar, but they are extremely different in a lot of other respects. If people are so narrowminded that they refuse to look at anything else but the functions and make the quadras their starting point in the typing process, of course they will be completely blind to the truth. It is only an incompetent socionist that could mistake one mirror for the other. They are extremely easy do separate.

There you go with that "the TRUTH!" stuff again. lmao

Temperaments aren't always obvious. In fact, a lot of times they aren't. (Especially with extroverts who spend a lot of time online. ) In some people temperaments are less obvious than anything else. People can very much look like they have a different temperament for periods of time in their lives. One thing that always remains consistent though is their values... and their values show themselves in their interactions with others.

And don't even fucking get me started on clubs. I refuse to go there right now. I've posted a topic about it and my thoughts remain the same as they did then.

[Joy]

I've been very good friends with LII for about seven years, after I reunited with him at secondary school (I used to play with him as a four year old). I don't tell him absolutely everything (a) that is a girl thing and b) there are things I tell no one), but I trust him completely. He used to comment me on the way I was quite unstructured in my thinking, in comparison with his clear, methodical and systematic way of thinking. When I debate with him, if I'm thinking clearly enough, I will end up finding a flaw in his reasoning, but for the most part, his logic is like an inpenetrable fortress, and I think he takes pride in that. It's hard if not impossible to get him to admit that he is wrong, incorrect or flawed in his logic. We talk a lot into the early hours, primarily about our opinions on everything about life, and always have done. I've never been at a loss as to what to say to him. We only really tire of each other's company after having spent more than three or four days straight around each other. He comments on my practicality, especially in comparison with himself, who is pitifully incapable of menial household tasks. I'm always happy to help him out though. I appreciate his consistency of behaviour immensely. You know exactly what you're getting with him. This is one of the things that puts him off about my IEE friend; IEE is completely inconsistent. I don't have too much of a problem with it, but LII despises it, especially when it is characterised by a variety of facades and irritating attitudes towards life. LII doesn't really have a firm career plan. He thinks he might stay in academia long-term, and lecture or something. I don't like the way he has no ambition, but can respect his choices nonetheless.

Based on how you describe your friend here, it is much more likely that he is an ILI than an LII. Everything you say there suggests ILI > LII. And if he is an ILI, the likelihood of you being an LIE increases again.

No. His description definitely sounds like a Ti type.

I'm beginning to think slacker mom was right about you.

[snegledmaca]

But you say "deeply unsettling" while I think "annoyingly over-expressive".

Well would you criticize them? Like if you had the chance would you argue about their irritating nature? If so it could be a sign of correction and if is really is an expression of beta IME-s, a sign of you being an another quadra.

[Ezra]

But you say "deeply unsettling" while I think "annoyingly over-expressive".

Well would you criticize them? Like if you had the chance would you argue about their irritating nature? If so it could be a sign of correction and if is really is an expression of beta IME-s, a sign of you being an another quadra.

Did I or did I not criticise them? Does this or does this not bear influence on people's perception of me?

[snegledmaca]

But you say "deeply unsettling" while I think "annoyingly over-expressive".

Well would you criticize them? Like if you had the chance would you argue about their irritating nature? If so it could be a sign of correction and if is really is an expression of beta IME-s, a sign of you being an another quadra.

Did I or did I not criticise them?

I don't consider a comment a criticism. I may be annoyed by an uncomfortable chair and comment on it but a deep seeded lack of comfort, steaming from my functional structuring, calls for more then a passing comment and a full blown intervention. I guess I'm asking is, does it call for a full blown intervention?

Does this or does this not bear influence on people's perception of me?

How is that relevant?

[Phaedrus]

I've been very good friends with LII for about seven years, after I reunited with him at secondary school (I used to play with him as a four year old). I don't tell him absolutely everything (a) that is a girl thing and b) there are things I tell no one), but I trust him completely. He used to comment me on the way I was quite unstructured in my thinking, in comparison with his clear, methodical and systematic way of thinking. When I debate with him, if I'm thinking clearly enough, I will end up finding a flaw in his reasoning, but for the most part, his logic is like an inpenetrable fortress, and I think he takes pride in that. It's hard if not impossible to get him to admit that he is wrong, incorrect or flawed in his logic. We talk a lot into the early hours, primarily about our opinions on everything about life, and always have done. I've never been at a loss as to what to say to him. We only really tire of each other's company after having spent more than three or four days straight around each other. He comments on my practicality, especially in comparison with himself, who is pitifully incapable of menial household tasks. I'm always happy to help him out though. I appreciate his consistency of behaviour immensely. You know exactly what you're getting with him. This is one of the things that puts him off about my IEE friend; IEE is completely inconsistent. I don't have too much of a problem with it, but LII despises it, especially when it is characterised by a variety of facades and irritating attitudes towards life. LII doesn't really have a firm career plan. He thinks he might stay in academia long-term, and lecture or something. I don't like the way he has no ambition, but can respect his choices nonetheless.

Based on how you describe your friend here, it is much more likely that he is an ILI than an LII. Everything you say there suggests ILI > LII. And if he is an ILI, the likelihood of you being an LIE increases again.

No. His description definitely sounds like a Ti type.

Both you and Ezra could ask Expat, or Lytov, or perhaps Rick, or someone else whose opinion you consider more reliable than mine. I can't imagine Expat seriously suggesting that the above description is LII > ILI. You could of course also ask Smilingeyes, but I get the impression that many of you dismiss his views on the types as incorrect too -- if you even understand them. One other person (except from the obvious ones, like Jarno, Jonathan and some other ILIs) that I think would probably agree that Ezra's friend is more likely ILI than LII based on the description above is FDG.

[Joy]

I've been very good friends with LII for about seven years, after I reunited with him at secondary school (I used to play with him as a four year old). I don't tell him absolutely everything (a) that is a girl thing and b) there are things I tell no one), but I trust him completely. He used to comment me on the way I was quite unstructured in my thinking, in comparison with his clear, methodical and systematic way of thinking. When I debate with him, if I'm thinking clearly enough, I will end up finding a flaw in his reasoning, but for the most part, his logic is like an inpenetrable fortress, and I think he takes pride in that. It's hard if not impossible to get him to admit that he is wrong, incorrect or flawed in his logic. We talk a lot into the early hours, primarily about our opinions on everything about life, and always have done. I've never been at a loss as to what to say to him. We only really tire of each other's company after having spent more than three or four days straight around each other. He comments on my practicality, especially in comparison with himself, who is pitifully incapable of menial household tasks. I'm always happy to help him out though. I appreciate his consistency of behaviour immensely. You know exactly what you're getting with him. This is one of the things that puts him off about my IEE friend; IEE is completely inconsistent. I don't have too much of a problem with it, but LII despises it, especially when it is characterised by a variety of facades and irritating attitudes towards life. LII doesn't really have a firm career plan. He thinks he might stay in academia long-term, and lecture or something. I don't like the way he has no ambition, but can respect his choices nonetheless.

Based on how you describe your friend here, it is much more likely that he is an ILI than an LII. Everything you say there suggests ILI > LII. And if he is an ILI, the likelihood of you being an LIE increases again.

No. His description definitely sounds like a Ti type.

Both you and Ezra could ask Expat, or Lytov, or perhaps Rick, or someone else whose opinion you consider more reliable than mine. I can't imagine Expat seriously suggesting that the above description is LII > ILI. You could of course also ask Smilingeyes, but I get the impression that many of you dismiss his views on the types as incorrect too -- if you even understand them. One other person (except from the obvious ones, like Jarno, Jonathan and some other ILIs) that I think would probably agree that Ezra's friend is more likely ILI than LII based on the description above is FDG.

I don't care who thinks what. I'm always willing to hear people's reasons for why they think something, but it seems like what you're doing here is throwing around the names of people who you perceive as being authorities of some sort in hopes that it would give your statement credibility. (Except FDG, I'm not sure why you brought him up.)

I cannot imagine such a person being the dual of an SEE.

If the description is not of a Ti type (which is unlikely), it's a Ti > Te type.

Hmmm...

[Joy]

You did not explain why ILI is obvious over LII.

His only reason is that he relates to the description.

[Phaedrus]

You did not explain why ILI is obvious over LII.

I didn't say that it is obvious. It obviously isn't obvious to everyone. But it is clear that the description is closer to the real attitudes and behaviours of ILIs than to LIIs. And that is obvious if you have met real life examples of both types, it is obvious if you have compared a lot of different type descriptions, and it is obvious if you for example have read and compared Smilingeyes's dichotomic expositions of the types.

[Gilly]

Why do you people bother with this fuckwit any more? Ego gratification or something?