Oh c'mon...do you really think an ISTj or ISFj can't interpret the emotional content of a sound?Originally Posted by Maritsa
Oh c'mon...do you really think an ISTj or ISFj can't interpret the emotional content of a sound?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
yes they can but this wasn't about processing the sound it's about looking past the sound and making out some quality about the person other than the sound.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The only thing about ISFj that's so different from me is this wall they seem to drop on occasion that's heavier than any castle gate. I don't know how they do it, but it's so efficient at getting someone to stop interacting with them or stop talking to them any further. This I can't do.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
No problemo.
I can, and I did it a couple of times with ESI's. It's so much fun to beat them at their own game!
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
Teach me oh grand master
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Like the time Gilly stabbed you in the head.
You just send them an email telling them in a diplomatic way you think they are boring and therefore you are terminating the friendship.Teach me oh grand master
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
I forget how much I love machinetruc's old posts.. lol
I don't know that many but there is one I see from time to time at my friend's factory. He seems to be a cool guy, he's friendly and orderly with his stuff and doesn't seem to mind to lend us a tool from time to time. He has a very dark/snarky sense of humor. And from the tales I've head he's a very calculating person; not very afraid of exploiting others. He once told us a history in which a female friend of him, a very awkward but surprisingly beautiful girl (most likely an ILI), was the tool he used to close deals with several businessmen (which I vaguely see as other gammas, specially LIEs who tend to have a poor personal life).
What I don't like is that he aligns squarely with status quo and doesn't seem to mind expressing his sympathy with the old and corrupt society that ruined our country and is just returning back.
[| NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
Haha wtf!
it's probs the type of awkwardness! Nevermind words getting in the way of meaning and all of that shit. Like yeah, it's usually easy to bulldoze through awkwardness by just getting louder and louder and more awesome unless every other person in the vicinity is being a nervous jittery little bitch about things; in that case, a big smile and a "well fuuuuck you guys! way to suck at everything" makes for a cool exit.
ESIs, like yeah, you all got like lots of feelings or something! And I love it but yeah, I get the impression that stuff cuts you all a bit deeper than it does me, and with a proportionately smaller reaction on the surface, and then I'll end up point blank asking something like "are you pissed off at me?" and then I'll get a short choppy ambiguous response and then it's like oh shit I gotta figure this one out myself and fix it!
And yeah, once again on the awkwardness, if anyone ever says the word "awkward" out loud at you, then you gotta blast them for making it awkward by saying the word! Like yeah, if they would have kept on going, then it would have been solid, but they dropped the ball, and they're like the biggest dork ever for that shit.
Do me a favor and go eat some wheaties with dried strawberries, you ninja turtle you!
Oh, and for your health http://memefeed.net/wp-content/uploa..._n-274x300.png
http://socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml
im getting irrational on all of these, any isfjs relate to this?
how long can you rationals go with out changing places, activities, people?
i tend to consume experiences without looking back and feel dead when im in a routine ...wa's goin on?
Shrug. I'd be an irrational per most of those listed attributes too. Wouldn't take any of that too seriously.
I don't think I can after that.. Not that I wanted to.
Anyway, I think Se creative is a bit of tunnel vision and a choppy one too since viewpoints have tendency to change. Other people have to deal with same inconsistencies off perception they are just better at seeing them coming and have habitual ways of dealing with them . It is pointless for you to dwell on possibilities - the Ne polr. For you to do the generalizations and be comfortable you need an overview. Ni-kind will work best because it is about flow- information that will show Se the routes instead of drawing destinations. One can get good Ni from literature.
LOL not all rationals are in routines.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
How come people say ISFj doesn't work well with e-4??
Also does e-type change the inter type relations ,i noticed e-7 and e-6w7 ENFp tend to supervise me most, it makes sense comparing e-4 over identifying w/ pain vs e-7 running away
Here is the e-4 description
Type Four in Brief
Fours are self-aware, sensitive, and reserved. They are emotionally honest, creative, and personal, but can also be moody and self-conscious. Withholding themselves from others due to feeling vulnerable and defective, they can also feel disdainful and exempt from ordinary ways of living. They typically have problems with melancholy, self-indulgence, and self-pity. At their Best: inspired and highly creative, they are able to renew themselves and transform their experiences.
- Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
- Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an
identity)- Enneagram Four with a Three-Wing: "The Aristocrat"
- Enneagram Four with a Five-Wing: "The Bohemian"
Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."
The Meaning of the Arrows (in brief)
When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), aloof Fours suddenly become over-involved and clinging at Two. However, when moving in their Direction of Integration (growth), envious, emotionally turbulent Fours become more objective and principled, like healthy Ones. For more information, click here.
Examples: Ingmar Bergman, Alan Watts, Sarah McLachlan, Alanis Morrisette, Paul Simon, Jeremy Irons, Patrick Stewart, Joseph Fiennes, Martha Graham, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Johnny Depp, Anne Rice, Rudolph Nureyev, J.D. Salinger, Anaîs Nin, Marcel Proust, Maria Callas, Tennessee Williams, Edgar Allan Poe, Annie Lennox, Prince, Michael Jackson, Virginia Woolf, Judy Garland, "Blanche DuBois" (Streetcar Named Desire), Thomas Merton.
Type Four Overview
We have named this type The Individualist because Fours maintain their identity by seeing themselves as fundamentally different from others. Fours feel that they are unlike other human beings, and consequently, that no one can understand them or love them adequately. They often see themselves as uniquely talented, possessing special, one-of-a-kind gifts, but also as uniquely disadvantaged or flawed. More than any other type, Fours are acutely aware of and focused on their personal differences and deficiencies.
Healthy Fours are honest with themselves: they own all of their feelings and can look at their motives, contradictions, and emotional conflicts without denying or whitewashing them. They may not necessarily like what they discover, but they do not try to rationalize their states, nor do they try to hide them from themselves or others. They are not afraid to see themselves “warts and all.” Healthy Fours are willing to reveal highly personal and potentially shameful things about themselves because they are determined to understand the truth of their experience—so that they can discover who they are and come to terms with their emotional history. This ability also enables Fours to endure suffering with a quiet strength. Their familiarity with their own darker nature makes it easier for them to process painful experiences that might overwhelm other types.
Nevertheless, Fours often report that they feel they are missing something in themselves, although they may have difficulty identifying exactly what that “something” is. Is it will power? Social ease? Self-confidence? Emotional tranquility?—all of which they see in others, seemingly in abundance. Given time and sufficient perspective, Fours generally recognize that they are unsure about aspects of their self-image—their personality or ego-structure itself. They feel that they lack a clear and stable identity, particularly a social persona that they feel comfortable with.
While it is true that Fours often feel different from others, they do not really want to be alone. They may feel socially awkward or self-conscious, but they deeply wish to connect with people who understand them and their feelings. The “romantics” of the Enneagram, they long for someone to come into their lives and appreciate the secret self that they have privately nurtured and hidden from the world. If, over time, such validation remains out of reach, Fours begin to build their identity around how unlike everyone else they are. The outsider therefore comforts herself by becoming an insistent individualist: everything must be done on her own, in her own way, on her own terms. Fours’ mantra becomes “I am myself. Nobody understands me. I am different and special,” while they secretly wish they could enjoy the easiness and confidence that others seem to enjoy.
Fours typically have problems with a negative self-image and chronically low self-esteem. They attempt to compensate for this by cultivating aFantasy Self—an idealized self-image which is built up primarily in their imaginations. A Four we know shared with us that he spent most of his spare time listening to classical music while fantasizing about being a great concert pianist—à la Vladimir Horowitz. Unfortunately, his commitment to practicing fell far short of his fantasized self-image, and he was often embarrassed when people asked him to play for them. His actual abilities, while not poor, became sources of shame.
In the course of their lives, Fours may try several different identities on for size, basing them on styles, preferences, or qualities they find attractive in others. But underneath the surface, they still feel uncertain about who they really are. The problem is that they base their identity largely on their feelings. When Fours look inward they see a kaleidoscopic, ever-shifting pattern of emotional reactions. Indeed, Fours accurately perceive a truth about human nature—that it is dynamic and ever changing. But because they want to create a stable, reliable identity from their emotions, they attempt to cultivate only certain feelings while rejecting others. Some feelings are seen as “me,” while others are “not me.” By attempting to hold on to specific moods and express others, Fours believe that they are being true to themselves.
One of the biggest challenges Fours face is learning to let go of feelings from the past; they tend to nurse wounds and hold onto negative feelings about those who have hurt them. Indeed, Fours can become so attached to longing and disappointment that they are unable to recognize the many treasures in their lives.
Leigh is a working mother who has struggled with these difficult feelings for many years.“I collapse when I am out in the world. I have had a trail of relationship disasters. I have hated my sister’s goodness—and hated goodness in general. I went years without joy in my life, just pretending to smile because real smiles would not come to me. I have had a constant longing for whatever I cannot have. My longings can never become fulfilled because I now realize that I am attached to ‘the longing’ and not to any specific end result.”There is a Sufi story that relates to this about an old dog that had been badly abused and was near starvation. One day, the dog found a bone, carried it to a safe spot, and started gnawing away. The dog was so hungry that it chewed on the bone for a long time and got every last bit of nourishment that it could out of it. After some time, a kind old man noticed the dog and its pathetic scrap and began quietly setting food out for it. But the poor hound was so attached to its bone that it refused to let go of it and soon starved to death.
Fours are in the same predicament. As long as they believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, they cannot allow themselves to experience or enjoy their many good qualities. To acknowledge their good qualities would be to lose their sense of identity (as a suffering victim) and to be without a relatively consistent personal identity (their Basic Fear). Fours grow by learning to see that much of their story is not true—or at least it is not true any more. The old feelings begin to fall away once they stop telling themselves their old tale: it is irrelevant to who they are right now.
4 works for any IxFx. This is a really great description btw, but, it does read a little biased toward Fe train of thought:
The briefing and key motivations is on point (the enneagram institute) but for Fi types it's never about rationalizing and expressing our differences in persona (note I say persona, not personality.) We're instead directed to the merging and collection of these various personas, because introverted feeling accepts any differences according to a subjective value system, a qualitative attachment to personas, not one object to another, not objective comparison. ie. I may purposefully draw attention to my personal faults and fowl feelings, but it is rarely in stead of others, only for my self-understanding, to realize my emotions as they relate to myself. All 4s shine light to make a distinct shadow, but Fi 4s shine their own light, not the light of others.
If you've read Jung's Fi description then you'll know Fi does not analyze and yield to this usual kind of "social knowledge" like Fe does. The Fi 4 takes on a much more mysterious, resistant character where psychological value is set aside for the greater internal image. Unlike Fe 4s, we usually don't shine light purposefully on our differences. We simply feel our individualism, that aura which casts a light and reveals these differences that we want to be revealed. In this sense, Fi is very intuitive and implicit. So the same way we see differences between Socionics types based on their enneagram, there are differences between enneagram types due to Socionics. This is why it's good to understand the fundamentals of Socionics and enneagram before the details and stereotypes. In other words, every type has an essential definition. They aren't personalities.
Last edited by 717495; 04-08-2013 at 03:46 AM.
Because per stereotyponics all ISFjs are obviously supposed to be boring and mind-numbingly conventional.
Some E4 ISFjs I can think of include Georgia O'Keeffe, Camille Claudel, Claire Boucher… maybe Florence Welch, though I'm unsure on her being E4. Simone de Beauvoir could be another.
eeeew
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