The following is an IM convo I had with one of my mates about 25 minutes ago. It started off on a debate whether it was right to throw away cats on the grounds that they are annyoing and kind of escalated into a full on talk about morality and stuff (I love it when that happens). Pictures of us are at the bottom of the page.

I'm interested in what you feel you can deduce socionics wise about us from this conversation and our relationship together.

Patrick says: my cat is so stupid
Ben says: lol
Patrick says:she comes in the back door of the house then sits at the front door immediatly and meows till we let her out
Ben says:lol
Ben says:unlucky
Ben says:i reckon u give it away
Ben says:wud u miss it
Patrick says:course I would
Ben says:u serious??
Ben says:i wud never miss a cat
Ben says:the stupid creatures
Patrick says:Well you know what they say
Patrick says:"You can shoot all the blue jays you want, but it's a sin to kill a cat"
Ben says:narp
Ben says:to kill a mocking bird
Patrick says:If you don't do english lit that one may not rub off on you
Ben says:ive read it
Ben says:i decided to read it cos th eeng lit ppl said it was goo
Ben says:good*
Patrick saysne of the best books every written imo
Patrick says:It's just perfect
Ben says:u think??
Patrick says:Almost like Stephen Kerr wrote it
Patrick says:He wrote the perfect essay once
Ben says:lol
Ben says:really??
Patrick says:much to our english classes hilarity
Patrick says:yeah lol
Ben says:did u like that book?
Patrick says:Mockingbird?
Patrick says:what book? ^^
Ben says:yea
Patrick says:Loved it
Ben says:did u feel sorry for ur crazy guy
Ben says:the one who took the black guy to court
Ben says:i forget the names
Patrick says:Well yeah, everybody is a product of their environment ben
Patrick says:It's not like our personality is decided when we're born
Ben says:but u can choose ur environment
Patrick says:not in Bob Ewell's case
Ben says:yea
Ben says:he cudda worked
Patrick says:He was raised to act like a shit therefor he grew up like a shit
Patrick says:It was how Maycomb treated him how he was
Patrick says:Same for anybody that does a bad action
Ben says:to be treated like he was hed have to gain that personality to begin with
Ben says:some bad action is just a bad choice
Ben says:not all of it is how we were treated
Patrick says:Not when you don't know any better
Patrick says:The only reason Atticus was like he was was because he had a damn good education
Ben says:but if everyone treats u nice
Ben says:u wont be nice
Patrick says:it's not about being nice
Patrick says:It's about the morals that you accept and whether you cross them
Patrick says:In Bob's eyes
Ben says:no but its about being how ur treated
Patrick says:He wasn't doing anything wrong
Patrick says:But in Atticus eyes he was a tool
Ben says:well he was being a drain on society
Patrick says:Society gave up on him
Patrick says:and people like him before he was born
Ben says:no someone hired him the book said
Ben says:and he quit like first day
Patrick says:that's because he's completely fucked up
Patrick says:it's like arresting a paedophile
Patrick says:Fair enough, they do horrible stuff
Patrick says:But you know that deep down they arn't right
Patrick says:and something shit must have happened to them to make them feel that way towards children
Patrick says:So it's really not right to punish them
Patrick says:You have to rehabilitate them
Ben says:yea
Patrick says:It's not their fault their parents abused them etc....
Ben says:ill debate wen i can talk
Patrick says:same applies to Bob Ewell
Ben says:i dont like it over the comp
Patrick says:It's easier for me over the comp
Ben says:u can t reHabilitate bob ewell
Patrick says:And that is the whole point of the novel
Patrick says:the damage was done to bob as his personality was developing in his childhood
Ben says:did he commit suicide in t end
Ben says:the*
Patrick says:Bob didn't he tried to attack Jem and Scout then Boo radley came and stopped him
Patrick says:Radley stuck the knife in him in self defence
Ben saysh rite
Ben says:so thats the solution
Ben says:lol
Ben saysj
Patrick says:lmao
Patrick says:This is one of the primary reasons Christianity pisses me off so much
Patrick says:no offence
Ben says:why sorry?
Patrick says:It's says God gave us free will to do as we please
Patrick says:But some of us are at a much greater disadvantage than others
Patrick says:And effectively our personalities are formed from the environment God gave us
Patrick says:So that means
Patrick says:God pretty much decided how we act
Ben says:but the environment has been formed by peoples sin if u wanna put it that way
Patrick says:Sin is a really stupid word if you think about it
Ben says:yea
Ben says:that was for want of a better word
Patrick says:It's pretty easy to go against God if your a single mother that needs to raise money for her children by prostitution
Patrick says:and that is why God's system of judgement is entirely unjust
Ben says:but its a breakdown of society that causes that
Patrick says:Yes
Patrick says:But then
Patrick says:That means that we are accountable for the sins of those before us
Patrick says:which is drastically unfair
Ben says:no she didnt have to have a child with that random bloke on the corner
Patrick says:but in her eyes she knew no alternative
Ben says:than having a child??
Patrick says:her moral values were warped just like Bob ewells
Ben says:u all know a child costs money
Ben says:admit this tho
Ben says:if everyone was a true christian society would have less problem
Patrick says:If everyone was a true christian we would probably still have slaves, women would be subservient to men, free will would not exist
Ben says:i didnt say that
Patrick says:Some people overlook the fact that God is a tight fucker when it comes to women
Ben says:i said society would have less problems
Patrick says:No
Patrick says:because morality is only morality in the eye of the beholder
Ben says:exactly and if everyone was achristian everyone wud have the same eye
Patrick says:but that doesn't make it the right eye does it?
Ben says:i didnt say that
Ben says:but ur avoidin teh ques
Ben says:and point
Patrick says:I'm not avoiding it
Ben says:its not a debate that christians are right or wrong
Ben says:u are
Patrick says:It's just your asking your questions on the assumption that the morals of christianity are the absolute set of morals
Ben says:im not tho
Patrick says:you are though
Ben says:k watever u think
Patrick says:lol
Ben says:rite
Patrick says:hold on I'll answer them as easily as I can
Ben says:dont type for a min
Ben says:ill ask a ques
Patrick says:k
Ben says:not saying that christianity is right... if everyone today became a true christian society would be a better place
Ben says:dont type still
Ben says:reasons as follows
Ben says:communism wud work because there wud be no corrupt polititians sex in marriage so no single mothers
Ben says:also this is assuming christians are perfect which i hasten to say is not true
Ben says:rite go
Patrick says:K don't type
Ben says:k
Ben says:whoops
Ben says:lol
Ben says:go
Patrick says:"if everyone today became a true christian society would be a better place"
Patrick says:This means that society would operate off an absolute set of morals and there would be no choice of free will. To define a 'better' place would be claiming that you know how to make society better. The defenition of better varies immensely between different individuals and if everybody was a true Christian then this would not be upheld.
Patrick says:It would be a better place in the case that there would be no rapists or paedophiles
Patrick says:But
Patrick says:It would not be a society that exercises the will that God gave us
Patrick says:"Communism would work"
Patrick says:This assumes that morality follows productivity in life
Patrick says:That's to say
Patrick says:If I am a man with a 'good' set of morals then naturally I am going to be somebody that works for a living
Patrick says:"No corrupt politicians"
Patrick says:If society was absolute there would be no need for politicians as there would be no arguments between either side as there is nothing for them to compete against
Patrick says:"Sex in Marriage"
Ben says:excellent even better
Ben says:no polititians
Patrick says:Hehe maybe for Northern ireland
Ben says:srry
Patrick says:nps
Patrick says:To say sex before marriage simply dismisses the fact that sex CAN BE a VERY good and enjoyable thing between two individuals before marriage
Patrick says:God states that sex outside of marriage is against his 'wishes'
Patrick saysr will
Patrick says:it began with the letter w
Patrick says:^^
Ben says:lol
Patrick says:Sex can help two individuals consolidate their love for one another before their marriage, sex can help people to get married
Patrick says:In some cases can fuck it up
Patrick says:in some cases sex can make it better
Patrick says:So really
Patrick says:If there was no sex before marriage and if there was sex before marriage there really isn't a tremendous difference between the two
Patrick says:Without sex nothing given nothing gained
Patrick says:nothing lost
Ben says:well if sex was granted before marriage
Patrick says:with sex there is the possibility of something gained something lost
Patrick says:it really all evens out in my opinion
Ben says:it wud be abused
Patrick says:define abused
Ben says:srry from achristian point of view
Ben says:it wud cause single parent families
Ben says:unless a 100% effective condom was created
Patrick says:you're missing my point
Ben says:srry
Ben says:explain
Patrick says:K let me gather my thoughts lol
Patrick says:right
Ben says:k
Ben says
Ben says:were u on a rant
Patrick says:lol no
Ben says:lol
Patrick sayskay lets both agree that sex before marriage can lead to two individuals being together for the rest of their life because the marriage consolidated their love - even though it may be wrong by biblical teaching
Patrick says:does that seem okay to you?
Ben says:wait
Ben says:well it may do for some ppl but i reckon if ur gonna be with someone for the rest of ur life u should know without sex
Patrick says:but you agreed that it "may do for some ppl"
Ben saysk yes i agree with ur point
Patrick says:so in effect, it can make people very happy together
Patrick says:kk
Ben says:yes *hesitantly*
Patrick sayskay and I'm sure we both agree that sex before marriage can completely fuck things up totally, abortion, single mothers and all yeah?
Ben says:k
Patrick sayskay
Patrick says:now let me try and get this right
Ben says:k
Patrick says:If there was no sex before marriage, none at all
Patrick says:The couples that possibly could have been happy together do not get a chance to consolidate their TRUE love for oneanother, not just lust, love
Patrick says:and
Ben says:k
Patrick says:The people that fucked up all their lives by 'abusing' sex and creating single mothers and unwanted children and abortion and stuff wouldn't have had this stuff happened to them
Patrick says:So my point is that in effect
Ben says:srry wait
Patrick says:There is really no moral slant on either side of the argument, with sex before marriage you can win and you can lose; with no sex before marriage you can't win and you can't lose
Ben says:but its better for society if you have less couples than if u have single mothers who cant afford to keep their child
Patrick says:But do you have the right to deny the people that could have met having sex before marriage their happiness?
Ben says:no i dont
Ben says:im just sayin i'd sacrifice some ppls true love for struggleing single mothers
Ben says:srry for no stuggling mother
Patrick says:and I'd say I'd sacrifice some struggling mothers so some people can be happy together
Ben says:really??
Ben saysnly cos ud never be one
Ben says:ur not being empathetic
Patrick says:I only used struggling mother's as an example
Patrick says:I'd say exactly the same thing about AIDS
Ben saysut that into context plz
Patrick says:has sex before marriage possible aids possible happiness, doesn't have sex no chance of aids no chance of happiness
Patrick says:same principles pretty much
Ben says:see
Ben says:this is where u try and be have a happy life
Ben says:if you depend on sex for happiness then yes ur gonna choose sex
Patrick says:I never said depend ben
Ben says:but if yu can have friends for happiness or a good job
Ben says:soory
Patrick says:I said kind of use to consolidate
Ben says:if u use sex for happiness
Patrick says:kk
Ben says:well there are other ways to be happy so if u dont have sex in that situation then it is still possible to be happy
Ben says:and not have aids
Ben saysr single mothers
Patrick says:but there are still couples that exist that would not have existed had sex before marriage been permitted
Patrick says:and to ban sex before marriage is to ban love between two individuals in some cases
Patrick says:And I'm not willing to do that
Patrick says:regardless of whether they're gay or straight or whatever
Ben says:lol
Ben says:kk
Ben says:well whether in the unlikely case that we decide im roght i dont think gordon brown'll buy it
Ben says:but anyway
Ben says:thanks for the debate
Patrick says:lol you too though
Ben says:gotta go do bio
Patrick says:I think you can do argument mathematically
Ben says?
Patrick says:+1 -1 = 0, 0 - 0 =0
Ben says:me or you in general?
Patrick says:general
Ben says:yea lol
Ben says:neways
Patrick says:so I think even though we both have different opinions
Patrick says:we have everybodies best interests at heart
Ben says:yea
Ben says:u can never please everyone
Ben says:which is too bad really
Patrick says:^^
Ben says:itd be nice to have everyone happy
Ben says:cya tomoro
Patrick says:later man
Patrick says:have fun
Ben says:i plan to

Patrick(me):



Ben: