SEE-ESFp jobs/careers: what occupations are ESFps good at?

[Ezra]

This seems strange to me, but Filatova pointed out that the SEE does well in jurisprudence.

SEE performs admirably in professions that require contact with people at all levels: political activity, military service (in as high a rank as possible), jurisprudence, artistic activity, teaching, commerce, and secretarial work. People of this psycho-type should be warned against the selection of scientific activity, especially in regards to theoretical disciplines.

If this is the case, why? I thought SEEs got bored easily with learning or memorising an infinite amount of rules.

In fact, the same goes for the military. I thought they couldn't dig hierarchies. Okay, it does say

SEE performs admirably in [...] military service (in as high a rank as possible)

But still, they must realise that there is a lot of hierarchy-climbing before they reach high ranks.

What is this new Ti PoLR Ti-loving conundrum?

[BLauritson]

I've no clue regarding the first bit. The second bit, I figure it's more for the power thing they like it, although about the hierarchy aspect...eh, I dunno really. Maybe they just accept it as something they have to do, or maybe they don't think about it beyond what they learn as being the rules of the military. People aren't blind to absolutely everything relating to their PoLR.. I dunno, it's a difficult one. I know when I used to be in the ATC (I'll see if you know what that is before explaining it) one of the guys there rose up to be a Sergeant during my time there, and I'm pretty certain (looking back on it) that he was SEE. I dunno.. only explanation I can think of is they desire the power and just learn about and accept the hierarchy aspect as "part of the job" as it were. No different from an office hierarchy really. It's not like SEEs don't know who the boss is or whatever.

[FDG]

Jurisprudence has an high Te and Se component (as opposed to the administrative law for example, which is a lot more Ti)

[Logos]

It is jurisprudence related to -responsiveness to -facts and data and selecting an appropriate measure or degree of action/punishment ().

[liveandletlive]

SEE performs admirably in professions that require contact with people at all levels: political activity, military service (in as high a rank as possible), jurisprudence, artistic activity, teaching, commerce, and secretarial work. People of this psycho-type should be warned against the selection of scientific activity, especially in regards to theoretical disciplines.


...

and we're focusing on jurisprudence why?

[Logos]

SEE performs admirably in professions that require contact with people at all levels: political activity, military service (in as high a rank as possible), jurisprudence, artistic activity, teaching, commerce, and secretarial work. People of this psycho-type should be warned against the selection of scientific activity, especially in regards to theoretical disciplines.


...

and we're focusing on jurisprudence why?

Because "psycho-type" is just shorthand for "psychological type." If it makes you feel any better, there are 16 psycho-types.

[liveandletlive]

Because "psycho-type" is just shorthand for "psychological type." If it makes you feel any better, there are 16 psycho-types.

... it's called a joke logos... *cue sitcom laughter track*

[Logos]

... it's called a joke logos... *cue sitcom laughter track*

A joke? I see you were making a joke. ha hahaha...ha... I always love a good joke as soon as I know about it.

[Ezra]

rolf @ conflictor warz

If it makes you feel any better, there are 16 psycho-types.

Hahaha.

It's just translation, Danielle. Nothing to do with the content. Nonetheless, Filatova content is pretty crap. I was just raising discussion.

[aixelsyd]

.

[Beautiful sky]

You're awesome in every way as *what am I good for as an SEE*.

Here let me shed some insights form Ne

Being able to accurately make out impressions of things allows you to mimick both Fi and Fe emotions and allows you to be among one of the most outstanding actors in the world. Hence MBTI called you Actor.

Being a caring and providing friend always with your pleasant Fi emotions.

Brilliant with handling Se, here and now things; my SEE friend is great in physics and in Fantasy Football. He's so great at it that he beet so many Te; like years in a row he got tons of money.

I saw a couple of SEEs today give their grandmother hugs and kisses, reminded me of your gentleness and love and affection.

Emotionally bold and warm. Kind. The world would be empty without you.

[crazedrat]

If you want to be productive then leaving this forum would be a good first step.

[krieger]

The russians like to refer to ESFps as "the politician". Makes sense to me, based on what I observe in the behavior of my brother-in-law.

[Timeless]

If you want to be productive then leaving this forum would be a good first step.

[Creepy-female]

I think it's normal to want real, meaningful human connections, so don't beat yourself up about that. I just don't think that the forum makes a very good support network.

My friend said one time that she believes everyone would benefit from counseling, and I liked that.

Daddy issues, mommy issues, parental issues, whatever, they're fucking hard. Parents are our first support structure and we learn from them, for better or worse. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

I know it's hard not to see things in extreme dichotomies of good/bad, right/wrong, and good/evil. I do that so much. And yet when you calm down your mind a little you may be able to see those extremes calm down as well for you.

Seeing your tone of writing makes me sad and uncomfortable because you seem to have a conscious or unconscious pattern of devaluing yourself. I can't really reach out or connect with as I would like to, because a) I don't know you and b) this is an internet forum. But just..think back to a time, or place, or activity, where you loved yourself. If your current situation isn't working for you, try something new. I know that is so hard when you're down. It's to even move when you're stuck in a cycle of negative thoughts.

But just try to keep in mind that we are made to connect with others. I know personally I keep coming back here because it is my primary support structure. I don't like or enjoy it, but I also can't just tear myself from it cold turkey and wander the world alone, in a daze of lonely disconnectedness. I think it's more realistic to slowly find other outlets that you are more comfortable with and slowly wean yourself away from here.

I don't know what else to say, but I am really sorry that you are put in this situation and that you feel this way. I think you will find the connections you are looking for if you seek people, places, and things that build you up rather than tear you down. I know it's hard. *hug*

[crazedrat]

Im just speaking in terms of what's productive, not telling you to leave or anything.

[Timmy]

I will. I think even in terms of socionics, I benefit by not being here. Learning on my own and not confusing myself with BS that is bound to come around. I haven't felt this was a good forum for really learning or talking about socionics even if it is supposed to be one. In reality, it's not that way at all. There are perks, but not many. I'm sure a lot of people would be glad if I left, not that I am doing it for them. It's just a good time.

And by god you shouldn't be contributing to an online forum for anyone but yourself. If doing so is holding you back, by all means pull yourself away and make a life for yourself while you have the will to. All the same, know that the time you have spent sharing your ideas here has not been worthless. You do not know me because I only recently created an account, but I've spent enough time lurking over the past couple of years to have read a number of your posts. I've always found your commentary insightful and thought provoking. You have made a non-negligible, positive contribution to my understanding of the world and to my quality of life by putting your ideas out there. I'm sure many others feel the same way. Thank you, and best of luck in the real world. Most of the rest of us will be joining you out there sooner or later.

[Creepy-female]

And by god you shouldn't be contributing to an online forum for anyone but yourself. If doing so is holding you back, by all means pull yourself away and make a life for yourself while you have the will to. All the same, know that the time you have spent sharing your ideas here has not been worthless. You do not know me because I only recently created an account, but I've spent enough time lurking over the past couple of years to have read a number of your posts. I've always found your commentary insightful and thought provoking. You have made a non-negligible, positive contribution to my understanding of the world and to my quality of life by putting your ideas out there. I'm sure many others feel the same way. Thank you, and best of luck out there in the real world. Most of the rest of us will be joining you out there sooner or later.

[Creepy-female]

Oh, and you've voiced some thoughts I haven't been able to find words for. It's helped a bit with my own questions to identify with some of your struggles. You've also generated good advice from others here. Thank you.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I know I like to encourage people more than anything and to help people out, but only if it really is helpful.

Well there's nothing wrong with being an uplifter you know. The world makes all sorts of people for many different reasons. If you have a big heart and it really comes off as genuine when you inspire others, maybe you should follow that. Not everything special can be physically measured. There are already enough therapists/counselors in the world who just get in the occupation to sort of smirk at other people's pain. If you can actually be one of the good guys and do it, and honestly inspire people- then I think that's wonderful.

I said I would quit cold turkey before too but it doesn't really work.... you just have to be more gentle and forgiving with yourself or something. If you take baby steps and get some stuff accomplished little by little rather than trying to make everything better all at once, you'll feel a lot happier. And you could still come here without letting it consume you too much.

BTW, try to seek out your dual or semi-dual because an intp or an infp would really enjoy you I think. =) Don't beat yourself up for being a 'loser' that's on internet message forums, in a socionics sense you like it because there's a lot of folks giving out Ni here, which is your dual seeking function. I think mainstream american society values Ne, not Ni, as well- so Ni is something that's hard to come by 'in the real world' anyway.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

seriously,people should just develop alone their capability of "sinking" into themselves and be the lords of their psyches instead of looking for something external to crash their energy on (that could be some forum or some counselor or whatever).forums are not for support,they are for information and *maybe* getting an idea on coping techniques.nontheless,they are very helpful.

[1981slater]

Strong traits of SEEs (not type related perhaps):

-Physical strength
-Able to deal with people
-Can be funny
-Audacity
-Supportive

[Beautiful sky]

seriously,people should just develop alone their capability of "sinking" into themselves and be the lords of their psyches instead of looking for something external to crash their energy on (that could be some forum or some counselor or whatever).forums are not for support,they are for information and *maybe* getting an idea on coping techniques.nontheless,they are very helpful.

He's an extravert and you're an introvert. Extraverts look to get this information form the outside world.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

that sounds a bit unprocessed .Besides,i thought that there is no clear I/E dichotomy in socionics.anyway,what I said can apply to everyone up to a degree in order to achieve an equilibrium.Tame the leading,don't fear the polr O.O
BTW the OP is female

[mirrorsoul]

All types are good for something. Type does not determine your individual potential. Remember that, above all.

Well, there are several things you could be good for. is good for any situation that involves applying the right amount of force to get things accomplished. Not every type has that sense of how much needs to be done. And with , you'll be more sensitive and aware than an a typical SLE. So you have strength and sensitivity. That doesn't sound like a bad combination at all, personally.

[Slacker]

SEEs are very good at making decisions and getting things done. I have a group of friends who are in this co-op to buy a kind of grocery item, and she's in charge because it's like you have to order full cases of each thing and someone has to be strong enough to say, "Someone has to order two more or some people aren't getting any" and then follow through and say, "the following people aren't getting any of X this time because we weren't able to fill the case." Without her, we are completely ineffective at getting anything ordered because no one else is willing to do that. Honestly, without her we would probably never order anything. I've been in groups without someone like that and stuff just doesn't happen. Things don't happen on their own - someone has to be involved who is able to MAKE things happen.

[Creepy-]

I resonate with many things you say... particularly that of wasted time. And also, to a lesser extent, the feeling of taking but never giving back. I usually ignore that, though.

I'm really not sure what to say about forums. I join them when I have some interest in something, which then turns into me passing time by, which finally turns into staying solely for the people (particularly the ones I find interesting). This is why I am still on three forums I don't actively post on, on two of which I barely even lurk.

More could be said. More could always be said (especially since I don't feel like much of importance was said in this whole post anyway). But there comes a point where saying more would instead start to become useless... still, the words we use don't mean much.

I suppose one more thing should be said... if you want to leave, nothing should stop you. My main problem is that I simply have nothing to do, or nothing I really want to do, outside... I am merely one caught in the flow, not choosing to be in it.

[pianosinger]

And then I see my other SEE friends who were encouraged to be themselves and I see how happy they are and how much fun they have. I feel jealous. I mean, they are great friends even if I can't see them or most of my friends very often because of the way things are for me, but...I'm not a great friend. I prayed to be a better friend...a good friend even and things have been shaping up a lot. I am a lot more responsive for one thing.

So much I could reply to, but this pargraph expecially stuck out to me.

I think it must be the nature of Fi-Creatives to worry that we're not being a good enough friend, when in reality others might view us as the best friend they've ever had. I know I've had a handful of people tell me I am their best friend, or introduce me to others as their best friend. And, it's a little embarrassing, because I don't really feel like I deserve that title.

I am a horrible correspondent; I'm no good at "checking up" with people on a regular basis; if I just happen to notice or hear about a friend going through some trial or other, then I am right there, ready and willing to help out, to offer whatever is needed. But, I'm kind of oblivious in general to many of my friends' needs unless they are blaringly obvious or pointed out to me. I don't like to pry into other people's affairs, so even if I suspect that something is wrong, I hesitate to interrogate; I figure if a friend really wants me to know what's bothering them, they'll open up on their own; my job is just to be handy.

Oh and btw, my younger sister is SEE and she is AWESOME. I love SEEs. I often think it would be handy to have my Ne and Se switched on occasion; I kinda envy that in your type...

[DirectorAbbie]

It seems weird for one to mistake oneself for one's dual. When did you decide to be SEE?

SEEs have the ability to be pushy without being annoying.

[Ave]

SEEs have the ability to be pushy without being annoying.

Depends what you consider annoying I guess. I find that the direct pressure of beta sts is less annoying than the emotional manipulation of SEEs, but thats just me. I hear its the other way around for ILIs, so there you go.

[Bardia]

I really like SEEs. They are the more outgoing carefree version of myself. They are really good at getting people to like them, getting people together to do stuff, being funny and entertaining everyone with their antics, and I really like talking to them about random things.

I think you just need to figure out what your strengths are be okay with them. Don't worry so much about what other people are good at because you fill a unique gap that no one else can.

[blackburry]

I think it's normal to want real, meaningful human connections, so don't beat yourself up about that. I just don't think that the forum makes a very good support network.

....
I know it's hard not to see things in extreme dichotomies of good/bad, right/wrong, and good/evil. I do that so much. And yet when you calm down your mind a little you may be able to see those extremes calm down as well for you.

...
But just try to keep in mind that we are made to connect with others. I know personally I keep coming back here because it is my primary support structure. I don't like or enjoy it, but I also can't just tear myself from it cold turkey and wander the world alone, in a daze of lonely disconnectedness. I think it's more realistic to slowly find other outlets that you are more comfortable with and slowly wean yourself away from here.

yeah.

aixelsyd, i can definitly relate at times. I feel like a create more problems then I solve... i'm just not completely comfortable in my own skin completely yet because I haven't found my niche...work sucks, friends come and go way more then i'd like, i'm constantly starting over with a new group of friends, it depresses me to no end. it's like no one understands me. and i end up feeling lost and angry, and pushy.

but definitly listen to dolphin's advice...i'll try to as well.

[nanashi]

I really don't know what I am good for in terms of being a SEE. Don't get me wrong, I think they do do a lot, but I feel like I have spent so much time accepting my accepting IMs (Ni and Te) that I haven't really produced back (actually I have, but it feels small and petty in the grand scheme of things). I feel useless, I guess, and am sorta emo-ing about it in a socionics context.

I'm wondering if I picked the right major. I'm wondering if my life will ever amount to anything. I mean, people think I do a lot, but I dunno.

I suck.

I know what you are great at--and I just met you.
You responded to my recent thread (on ESFps guys kinda being standoffish once we got romantic just like I am shy and it making our interaction a bit for me). A member of another quadra posted something about my thread being weird because she gets asked out by my duals all the time, and you made me feel less like an unlovable, uncool alien and more like someone who was actually seeing a real tendency when you brought up your own experiences. This isn't to say your worth is in making ILIs feel good. That 'making them feel great and at home (FOR ONCE in life)' is just a side effect of being their inverse. But what you contribute is your Se. Your confidence. Your sensitivity. I have debilitating inertia. You are full of life. You're like jazz. I subjectively always respond to SEEs as the most wonderful people in the world. (NO, I am not saying SEEs are objectively the best because that would be bigoted. I am only saying that I experience SEEs as the most awe-inspiring and great).

I dunno. I can be very warm and kind but kind of hold back because I know some people don't care for it. I've actually, over the years, been looked down on for my emotional expression that I just became the opposite...cold and stiff. With the right people, it turns on, though.

The warmth and kindness of SEEs is one of the only warmths that doesn't make me feel either pathetic and weak (my response sometimes to the Fi of Fi primary EIIs) when I accept it or insincere inwardly when I socially acknowledge the show (more my response to Fe types?). Instead I feel like I am having a perfect day.

And then I see my other SEE friends who were encouraged to be themselves and I see how happy they are and how much fun they have. I feel jealous. I mean, they are great friends even if I can't see them or most of my friends very often because of the way things are for me, but...I'm not a great friend. I prayed to be a better friend...a good friend even and things have been shaping up a lot. I am a lot more responsive for one thing.

Um I see you as a potential friend and I barely interacted with you.

I'm good at music and people enjoy working with me and having me in their ensembles. I have the capacity to write good music, I'm just poor at notation and anything which requires me to concentrate and work at a single thing for a long time. My Ti PoLR really shows up when it comes to transcribing my works into detailed notation. I suppose my poor time management, disorganization (living in chaos), and scattered energy and impatience is what does me in.

Writing was once one of my stronger suits. Now I think I suck at it because of my scatteredness. People tell me I should have studied music in college since it's what I do, but I don't and didn't see the real benefit of it when I can do just fine without a degree. But the same goes for my field of study. I really didn't need a degree for it.

I don't know what I want, really. I know I like to encourage people more than anything and to help people out, but only if it really is helpful.

Buddy, you just sound like sx/so--y to me, just like you have a nice helping of focused energy. Well, you helped me as demonstrated above. I have this sort of cosmic social theory that amounts to the world being vastly improved even when one isn't like a humanitarian aid worker but in everyday interaction: a person's everyday open perceiving of other people and the gentle presentation of hope as real and of the positive qualities that people have to them. I think people have insane potential lying dormant in them that is right at hand when they think there is hope and when they have a bit of confidence and realization of their best states.They are no longer feeling hopeless and diffident.

But yeah, I care but I'm not very demonstrative with my caring nature. Quite the opposite. At least that's how I feel even though people like some of my Gamma SF friends say I am a good person, very caring, and so forth, but I don't see it. I don't see what I do that at all can be that. On the other hand I've been told I am selfish and self-absorbed and I guess it's true.

I think sx/so types come off as self-absorbed because the passion and moving and shaking characteristics can be annoying for more ploddy or more retiring people. Everyone is self-involved.

You could of course have made selfish choices in the recent past. That's the recent past. It's not now, so you have freedom in the moment to act nobly.

I think the way we're experienced by other types might be cursorily articulated as 'too self-ish.'

Maybe I should get some counseling to get me past some stupid daddy issues and self-esteem issues. Or maybe, in time, the things I've learned and absorbed will become useful to reach out and do some real good in the world around me. I hate feeling useless. I hate feeling like I can't do anything to better things around me by interacting and being present.

I should get off the forum. Waste of time, too. For me. I mean, I'm here to kill time sometimes and that's no good.

I get on this forum for the interaction. I don't think that is a waste of time. I think it nurtures the soul.When I read about the developed 5w6 type (ignoring the immature behavior list of 5w6s if I'm already depressed), I can see some of the maturity in me and feel great. Maybe it would help you to read your enneagram mature-state qualities. http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/index.html

If you want to be productive then leaving this forum would be a good first step.

You don't have to leave to be productive in life, imo.

I will. I think even in terms of socionics, I benefit by not being here. Learning on my own and not confusing myself with BS that is bound to come around. I haven't felt this was a good forum for really learning or talking about socionics even if it is supposed to be one. In reality, it's not that way at all. There are perks, but not many. I'm sure a lot of people would be glad if I left, not that I am doing it for them. It's just a good time.

I'm not sure that a lot of people would be glad if you left.

I think it's normal to want real, meaningful human connections, so don't beat yourself up about that. I just don't think that the forum makes a very good support network.

My friend said one time that she believes everyone would benefit from counseling, and I liked that.

Daddy issues, mommy issues, parental issues, whatever, they're fucking hard. Parents are our first support structure and we learn from them, for better or worse. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

I know it's hard not to see things in extreme dichotomies of good/bad, right/wrong, and good/evil. I do that so much. And yet when you calm down your mind a little you may be able to see those extremes calm down as well for you.

Seeing your tone of writing makes me sad and uncomfortable because you seem to have a conscious or unconscious pattern of devaluing yourself. I can't really reach out or connect with as I would like to, because a) I don't know you and b) this is an internet forum. But just..think back to a time, or place, or activity, where you loved yourself. If your current situation isn't working for you, try something new. I know that is so hard when you're down. It's to even move when you're stuck in a cycle of negative thoughts.

But just try to keep in mind that we are made to connect with others. I know personally I keep coming back here because it is my primary support structure. I don't like or enjoy it, but I also can't just tear myself from it cold turkey and wander the world alone, in a daze of lonely disconnectedness. I think it's more realistic to slowly find other outlets that you are more comfortable with and slowly wean yourself away from here.

I don't know what else to say, but I am really sorry that you are put in this situation and that you feel this way. I think you will find the connections you are looking for if you seek people, places, and things that build you up rather than tear you down. I know it's hard. *hug*

See, I've been depressed for 2 days, and something about what dolphin said and how she said it makes me feel calm and unalone in the universe. I totally use this forum and the Socionix one as a support system. It works great sometimes. A few members I am close to really protect me incredibly loyally--which feels amazing.

And by god you shouldn't be contributing to an online forum for anyone but yourself. If doing so is holding you back, by all means pull yourself away and make a life for yourself while you have the will to. All the same, know that the time you have spent sharing your ideas here has not been worthless. You do not know me because I only recently created an account, but I've spent enough time lurking over the past couple of years to have read a number of your posts. I've always found your commentary insightful and thought provoking. You have made a non-negligible, positive contribution to my understanding of the world and to my quality of life by putting your ideas out there. I'm sure many others feel the same way. Thank you, and best of luck in the real world. Most of the rest of us will be joining you out there sooner or later.

NO! lol contribute to help me. when you wanna and when it seems easy and fun to you.

seriously,people should just develop alone their capability of "sinking" into themselves and be the lords of their psyches instead of looking for something external to crash their energy on (that could be some forum or some counselor or whatever).forums are not for support,they are for information and *maybe* getting an idea on coping techniques.nontheless,they are very helpful.

As a sx/so type I disagree. I find great amounts of understanding, similar experiences, and kind people.

It seems weird for one to mistake oneself for one's dual. When did you decide to be SEE?

People have wondered if I'm SEE irl. I really like Gamma SF values and can kind of project them a little for flickering minutes.

[discojoe]

SEEs are good for bouncing around and maybe knocking into something that maybe causes a chain reaction that maybe results in something not horrible happening.

At least the retarded ones.

[eSDe]

SEE are excellent at manipulating people. Go anywhere, where gamma NT sells / trades something and start from the sidekick. Instantly you advance, and You will feel like a fish in water.

[Jimbean]

[nanashi]

oh, and I am compelled to live my life around you, ESFps

[woofwoofl]

oh, and I am compelled to live my life around you, ESFps

oh wow I... thank you thank you thank you wow I'll always keep this in the back of my mind because I can always need it and it's one of the greatest things I heard or read...

[DividedsGhost]

What are we good for?

War, eh? What is it good for?

Absolutely nothing!

[Ave]

SEE are excellent at manipulating people.

Which is why they are annoying. They manipulate everyone but me. Im the only one who can see through their antics, yet it doesnt matter when the entire world takes their fucking side.