Short article for visual identification

**ooo** · 10-01-2017, 09:51 AM

So I came to discover this site, all about physiognomy :

http://www.emotions.64g.ru

Asymmetry of a human face and hexagrams IChing.
Mental functions and hemispheres of a brain.
Analytical physiognomy.

The analytical physiognomy unites analytical psychology and psychophysiology of a brain with physiognomy. According to principles of analytical physiognomy it is possible to speak about ratio of features of a human face with functions of hemispheres of a brain, and also with concepts of analytical psychology which were formulated by C. G. Jung (Carl Gustav Jung).
Namely if to look at a human face then in most cases it is possible to see asymmetry of the right half and the left half that is caused by different psycho-physiological functions of hemispheres of a brain. Functions of the left hemisphere are projected on the right half of face, and functions of the right hemispher are projected on the left half of face, and accordingly agrees to features of the right half of face it is possible to speak about functions of the left hemisphere of a brain, and according to features of the left half of face it is possible to speak about functions of the right hemisphere of a brain. And also according to features it is possible to speak about psychological properties of a human person as the human psychology is connected to functioning hemispheres of a brain. In essence it is possible to correlate concepts of analytical psychology of C. G. Jung to physiognomy of a human face as functions of hemispheres of a brain and the appropriate psychological properties have physiognomic projections.

Rules of analytical physiognomy consist in the following:
Eyes specify the basic psychological direction of a person which can be extraverted or introverted. Extraverts have an active left half of face and an active left eye, and introverts have an active right half of face and an active right eye provided that an active half of face less rather than a passive half of face, and an active eye more open and bright rather than a passive eye.
Psychological direction of a person of extraverts is focused in external world and depends on external world. Psychological direction of a person of introverts is focused in own private world and does not depend on external world.
The used terminology corresponds to concepts of analytical psychology which are formulated by by C. G. Jung (Carl Gustav Jung) in the book "Psychological types" and consequently the given psychological definitions should be understood in a context of formulations of by C. G. Jung.
Within the extraverted or introverted direction of a person there is a realization of mental functions which are specified by eyebrows and a mouth, namely eyes are physiognomic projections of psychological directions of a person, and eyebrows and mouth are physiognomic projections of mental functions from the point of view of analytical physiognomy.
The left eyebrow specifies ethical mental function.
C. G. Jung named this function as emotional (feeling), but emotions are mental processes which in essence are not mental functions and consequently truly to name this function as ethical.
The ethical type of a person understands ethical relations of people, understands sympathy which finds out in individual moods of people.
The right eyebrow specifies logic mental function.
C. G. Jung named this function as cogitative (thinking), but the thinking is a process of activity of a brain as a entire and consequently truly to name this function as logic.
The logic type of a person establishes logic orders and systematizes laws of the world, and also analyzes the facts.
Ethical and logic functions are rational (judging) i.e. these functions are subordinated to consciousness and correspond with the top half of face. Two following mental functions are irrational (perceiving) i.e. these functions are submitted to feelings (sensual perceptions) and correspond with the bottom half of face.
The left corner of a mouth specifies sensory (touch-sensitive) mental function.
The sensory type of a person perceives perceives the world by means of sensations and touch contact to subjects and objects.
The right corner of a mouth specifies intuitive mental function.
The intuitive type of a person has uncertain sensations and consequently perceives subjects and objects of the world in the abstract.
The term "intuition" cannot be understood in everyday value, namely usually the intuition means an incomprehensible guess which arises during thinking, but in a context of analytical psychology the intuition is an irrational mental function which does not submit to rational comprehension.
Thus, hemispheres of a brain determine psychological parameters of a human person, and psychological parameters are projected on the right and left half of a face that allows to apply methods of physiognomy during testing and identification of psychological types in analytical psychology.

face indicators.png

As it is possible to see in the self-portrait of M. A. Wrubel the left eyebrow is raised in comparison with the right eyebrow that corresponds to active ethical function and passive logic function. The right eye more appreciable also has the greater size in comparison with the left eye that corresponds to active introversion and passive extraversion. The left corner of a mouth and the right corner of a mouth are symmetric, but as a whole corners of a mouth are passive (has no tone) that corresponds to obvious intuitive function and unobvious sensory function

the author of this site, further on, compares every emotion to the 64 hexagrams of the I-Ching, discovering 64 emotions related to the psychological types.
IJing faces.png 64 emotions.png

In blue are the irrational types, in red the rationals.
It's interesting, not all emotions can be typed, some expressions are related to uncertain types, that are harmonious (when main functions are both weak-Obvious) or in contrast (when the main functions are both strong-Active), so that it's hard to tell which type one is, for some cases.

In aggregate psychological parameters in M. A. Wrubel's self-portrait correspond with the 58th hexagram IChing that corresponds to 58 psychological type in system of 64 psychological types of analytical physiognomy. Namely the active left eyebrow corresponds with the interrupted line on the sixth top position in hexagram, the passive right eyebrow corresponds with the whole line on the fifth position, the passive left eye corresponds with the whole line on the fourth position, the active right eye corresponds with the interrupted line on the third position, corners of a mouth corresponds with the whole lunes on the second and first positions.
M. A. Wrubel's psychological type in a context of offered system of 64 psychological types corresponds with the 58th hexagram IChing, namely the active left eyebrow specifies the interrupted line on the sixth top position in hexagram IChing; the passive right eyebrow specifies the whole line on the fifth position; the passive left eye specifies the whole line on the fourth position; the active right eye specifies the interrupted line on the third position; corners of a mouth specify the whole lines on the second and first positions.

here's the relationship with the types and their typical expressions: http://www.emotions.64g.ru/prlev/prlcon4en.htm
faces hexa.png

**Sol** · 10-01-2017, 02:07 PM

static physiognomy is bs, besides mb emotional expressions
IChing... fascinating
that above looks senseless, anyway

for facial expressions it needs to look at real people, not at pics gotten whithout reasonable sense

**ooo** · 10-01-2017, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sol

static physiognomy is bs, besides mb emotional expressions
IChing... fascinating
that above looks senseless, anyway

for facial expressions it needs to look at real people, not at pics gotten whithout reasonable sense

Sure, this should be perfected, you can't expect a man alone to reveal the entire truth :]

Oh, yeah the IChing is great, Jung himself was a fan of all the "esoteric" practices, that's where the subconscious most likely lies.

Jung didn't invent typology, but just perfected it over an endless review of archaic concepts... such as socion or MB try to do.

**Sol** · 10-01-2017, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by pinoline

Oh, yeah the IChing is great

I was joking about IChing.

I'm sceptical to anything non-classical until it gets an objective proof.

> Jung didn't invent the typology

He did.

**ooo** · 10-01-2017, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Sol

I was joking about IChing.

I'm sceptical to anything non-classical until it gets an objective proof.

> Jung didn't invent the typology

He did.

Jung is classical because he's dead and old? Many of his hypothesis are highly speculative, and he drew them from Schelling, who drew them from other people who drew them from someone else.

The first attested typology descriptions go back to Theophrastus, 300 BC, but you didn't have psychology back then, right. That was typology though, and far more classical ;]

Jung's ideas were and are still debated, because of how esoteric they are... it's cool to see how you stick to them without knowing where they come from.

**squark** · 10-01-2017, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by pinoline

The right eyebrow specifies logic mental function.

**Tallmo** · 10-01-2017, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by pinoline

Jung's ideas were and are still debated, because of how esoteric they are... it's cool to see how you stick to them without knowing where they come from.

He is often confused for being esoteric. But it's all psychology that can be verified. Like his typology is not "ideas" but direct observation and analysis of consciousness. But these things have of course manifested themselves in the past in different ways.

And now with socionics we can finally prove that that the types exist.

EDIT
I've consulted the I Ching several times. It's really amazing how it works. But I don't want to do it too much.

**ooo** · 10-01-2017, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by squark

as LII as he seems

**ooo** · 10-01-2017, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Tallmo

He is often confused for being esoteric. But it's all psychology that can be verified. Like his typology is not "ideas" but direct observation and analysis of consciousness. But these things have of course manifested themselves in the past in different ways.

And now with socionics we can finally prove that that the types exist.

EDIT
I've consulted the I Ching several times. It's really amazing how it works. But I don't want to do it too much.

He really was into astrology, Hindu philosophy, alchemy and all the mystical beliefs. In the initial part of "Psychological Types" he talks of that.

His theories about the collective unconscious stem exactly from the analysis of these recurring archaic symbols. These particular theories are the ones that still can't be proven, with all our science today.

**Bertrand** · 10-01-2017, 09:12 PM

this is the most interesting thing I've seen posted in recent memory, thank you so much for finding this

**ooo** · 10-01-2017, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bertrand

this is the most interesting thing I've seen posted in recent memory, thank you so much for finding this

my fav mouse in all internet is back

**Hope** · 10-01-2017, 09:46 PM

Awn Bert! He's back!

**flames** · 10-01-2017, 10:37 PM

^ welcome back

**Exodus** · 10-02-2017, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by pinoline

Jung is classical because he's dead and old? Many of his hypothesis are highly speculative, and he drew them from Schelling, who drew them from other people who drew them from someone else.

The first attested typology descriptions go back to Theophrastus, 300 BC, but you didn't have psychology back then, right. That was typology though, and far more classical ;]

Jung's ideas were and are still debated, because of how esoteric they are... it's cool to see how you stick to them without knowing where they come from.

It's no coincidence that Jung was interested in the esoteric.

That being said, don't waste your time on physiognomy. Even though there do seem to be some very loose correlations, most people are wildly unsuccessful at typing using it.

**Hope** · 10-02-2017, 02:22 AM

I don't think its really accurate. According that,

Britney Spears would be super thinker (xSTj or INTj)

Attachment 11562 Attachment 11563 Attachment 11564

Ricky Martin ISTp or INTp...

Attachment 11565 Attachment 11566

and Miley is ISFp.

Attachment 11567

**ooo** · 10-02-2017, 09:38 AM

thanks @thehotelambush, I accept this suggestion. The important thing is not a picture alone though, or the answers to a questionnaire alone, for example. There are many elements that come into play to define our type, I think that our body just plays an important part too. As we need many answers to get to type someone, or at least, to narrow the possibilities, so it's not a picture alone to tell us who someone is. When someone makes a video, answering the questions we want him to answer, we'll pay attention at his body language, trying to see if he moves and talks according to the type we think he is, or according to the type HE says he is, or we try to see if said person aligns to the other people we already know and that behave alike... in the end, we have to draw a medium value between all the parts, some of them will be more valuable, others less. But they all play a part.
I suggest to try and watch a video, over a pic, and try see what gestures were overall repeated more. Get sure the camera is not mirrored too, often, the pictures of famous people sparsed online are mirrorred, and retouched, so they are already wrong.

@Syrup
lol yeah in some cases it can be off... couldn't Britney be a INTj though?

I had fun trying to type random people these last days following this method and in some cases, for the people I knew, this method was revealing...

the russian site delves in many other parts, like prophiles and body postures... I'll let you know if I find something else ;]

**Exodus** · 10-02-2017, 12:13 PM

@pinoline physiognomy need not play a part in anyone's typings. It does more harm than good to even talk about it.

As for "dynamic VI", sometimes I will notice that a person's mannerisms match up with someone that I've typed before. If this is the case, it's likely that they are that type or a similar one. But 1) this can be misleading, different types can have similar mannerisms and 2) it is not a systematic or reliable method - sometimes a comparison comes to mind, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes they are a new "subtype" that I'm not familiar with, and it's pointless to pretend that there is some kind of regular pattern that applies to all cases.

**ooo** · 10-02-2017, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by thehotelambush

@pinoline physiognomy need not play a part in anyone's typings. It does more harm than good to even talk about it.

As for "dynamic VI", sometimes I will notice that a person's mannerisms match up with someone that I've typed before. If this is the case, it's likely that they are that type or a similar one. But 1) this can be misleading, different types can have similar mannerisms and 2) it is not a systematic or reliable method - sometimes a comparison comes to mind, sometimes it isn't. Sometimes they are a new "subtype" that I'm not familiar with, and it's pointless to pretend that there is some kind of regular pattern that applies to all cases.

It is a part of socionics though, isn't it?

I honestly liked bits of this method because I recognized something I've learnt in art school: portraits are not for everyone, photogenic people are not necessarily "more pretty", they are usually more expressive. This expressive side is usually related to the left side of our faces, it's the side related to our emotions and expressions...

The rest is interesting for me, because I'm not good at reading people's faces really, I think Sensors here are more advanced, and this can come in my help when I need to understand someone from their gestures alone.

Anyway it's not a gesture alone, but a lot of them, possibly in different contexts, that will possibly reveal something. As with questionnaires...

Originally Posted by Sol

typing without video has much higher risk of a mistake

Aha, and how do some people expect to be able to type someone using their intuition, if they don't refer what they see to something they already know? Intuition is drawing conclusions from details somehow... so what details do they see that we can't grasp?

I trust some esoteric detailed stuff over someone biased VI methods tbh. Given that "I can feel it with my intuition", is not a good explanation to type someone.

It all comes from that esoteric... you know that already.

**Sol** · 10-02-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by pinoline

Aha, and how do some people expect to be able to type someone with intuition only, without basing anything of what they see to something they already know?

No one knows how intuitions works. It's a magic!

For example, you may take a description of T and F poles of the dichotomy and just feel to which one a man fits better.
Intuition is just one of 4 functions, every of which has _equal_ importance to understand the reality.

> I trust some esoteric detailed stuff over someone biased VI methods tbh.

Intuitive analysis of nonverbal may be thought as mainsteam thing. Sure the typing IRL communication is not limited to nonverbal, but we will not tell them, and offline typing is nonverbal anyway.

> It all comes from that esoteric... you know that already.

Eh.. all intuitive methods may be thought as esoteric, but it's not obligate in this case. We don't want to scare kids.

**ooo** · 10-02-2017, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sol

No one knows how intuitions works. It's a magic!

all is magic if u don't know how it works

**Sol** · 10-02-2017, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by pinoline

all is magic if u don't know how it works

You have cited one of definitions of magic, padavan.
I may add that we know nothing, but only have models to interact with the reality. So technically - there are only magic, fairies and unicorns.

**ooo** · 10-02-2017, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sol

You have cited one of definitions of magic, padavan.
I may add that we know nothing, but only have models to interact with the reality. So technically - there are only magic, fairies and unicorns.

this is the best thing uve said ever Soli

**Sol** · 10-02-2017, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by pinoline

this is the best thing uve said ever Soli

I allow to make tatoos with it.

**Chae** · 10-02-2017, 02:32 PM

I'll ask my psychology professor to lend me her eye-tracking experiment glasses. No more MBTI brain scans, now we'll do REAL science, people. Real science.

**Number 9 large** · 10-02-2017, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bertrand

this is the most interesting thing I've seen posted in recent memory, thank you so much for finding this

only 5 more types to become the super mbti user. *winning*

**Bertrand** · 10-02-2017, 04:04 PM

being this or that type is a lot like making a face

**ooo** · 10-02-2017, 05:13 PM

**Tallmo** · 10-02-2017, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by pinoline

He really was into astrology, Hindu philosophy, alchemy and all the mystical beliefs. In the initial part of "Psychological Types" he talks of that.

His theories about the collective unconscious stem exactly from the analysis of these recurring archaic symbols. These particular theories are the ones that still can't be proven, with all our science today.

Of course he was into mythology. That's where the psyche and the individuation process projects itself.

Well I think it is pretty obvious that the psyche projects itself in mythology and alchemy. As it does in art and dreams. It's the raw material for psychology.

But experience with patients in analysis is very important too. And general experiences from individuation in human life.