Eight years ago I stopped signing into this forum, until I logged in again in July 2022. It’s because the forum began to seem like Facebook—in that it at times felt like mean girls at high school, as opposed to being an anonymous tool for self development and learning. At my high school, I chose to identify with the smoking-area crowd because they possessed a chill and nonjudgmental acceptance of others, as opposed to the complicated two-faced social games that the jock & fashionable groups apparently thrived on. The jocks thought they were inherently superior to everyone—and I wanted no part of that superficial hierarchy. And the guys in the trendy fashion-obsessed crowd used to arrive at school early in order to sit on the benches where everyone had to walk past—and they would obnoxiously rate the females on their looks and attire as they walked by. I discovered that I always felt best inside, when I defiantly placed my loyalty with the underdog—perhaps that is why I love
The Perks of Being a Wallflower so much (that, and having living in Pittsburgh for 6 years). However, giving CRED to an underdog while snubbing the “in-crowd” could ONLY be effective if you could manage to get yourself into a superior position—where it could then actually achieve the desired snub. That in fact, is the reason why I exhausted myself to work two jobs (so I wouldn’t be thought of as entitled or lazy), got straight A’s and academic awards (so that I could get a higher education and thus surpass the jocks who would likely NOT end up with a professional career in sports, OR a better job than I could get), I was a cheerleader in high school and got a bronze medal at the World Baton Championships in Paris (just in order to add the sports experience to my resume… and—let’s be honest—so that I could visit Jim Morrison‘s grave in Paris), I played the piano, violin & drums (in fact this was a great outlet to express Fi in a safe, autonomous manner… but I hated it if others could hear me practice, or if someone asked that I play something on demand—that actually ruined the joy for me), I rode a motorcycle (if this isn’t Se hidden agenda seeking, I don’t know what is), AND ended up being accepted into the hard-core Toronto party crowd several years older than myself (perhaps I went a bit too far with this because I ended up with a couple friends in Satan’s Choice…but I think this was my way of ensuring that I had more street cred and was therefore tougher than the jocks or fashionistas—who naively believed that THEY were tough and at the top of the power pyramid). It’s so pathetic now when I look back at that teenager spinning her wheels, amassing credentials, just so that no one could ever call her out as fake or a fraud. If someone said “you’re stupid” I could respond with verifiable data “I’m on the honour roll, have a business degree, and a law degree from the top law school in Canada”. If someone said I wasn’t tough, I could say “I ride a motorcycle everyday in rush hour traffic on the 401, play Led Zeppelin music note-for-note on the drums, work 2 jobs, am captain of my national baton team, and have friends in Satan’s Choice”. ALL OF THIS, so that I could then establish enough credibility amongst the status quo, to then have the freedom to rebelliously reject them in favour of choosing to hang out with clever but unpopular misfits/outcasts. I think it’s also why I tried to conform to the standards of acceptable physical female beauty—in order to infiltrate, and then defiantly reject the popular and superficial status quo. It’s also why I very much admire people who don’t give a shit about all of this acceptance from others in order to authenticate their supposed power.
Of course many things since, have taught me to become more true to myself as opposed to being a people pleaser. Actually I think “people pleaser” is the wrong term – and it’s why I initially and erroneously identified my Enneagram as 3w2. Because when you look at all of the steps I took—just in order to gain credibility with the accepted parameters within external society—how could anyone NOT say I was a 2?? But I did end up changing my Enneagram to 3w4, because the whole reason I was acting “2-like”, was actually part of a larger scheme whereby I could then feel free to guiltlessly become my true self, as a 4. I think ultimately, we all want to find our own self-acceptance and personal freedom.
Eight years ago, I was vehemently challenged—and my sociotype second-guessed—for my statement that I admired Ti. Many felt that I was thus an EIE with obvious Ti-seeking, who erroneously thought I was an LIE. I am now offering some additional thoughts in order to clarify why I admire Ti. I think that Te is often able to achieve success that is perhaps unwarranted. And LIEs will graciously often recognize, and then rebelliously admire superior talent and skill when they see it. It is not always our fault that we will often manage to unfortunately rise higher than such superior talent—merely because we know how to extract the most measurable success within given parameters—both from the particular situation, and with the particular skills we have amassed in our arsenal.
In business school, I was very close with an ILE. We were told to work on a particular business model in groups and he came up with a very creative way to restructure the company in one of the simulated exercises. Of course we were drinking and playing darts while we worked on it, and he passed out and then failed to complete the assignment. I handed mine in—based mostly on his drunken yet creative corporate restructuring—and my work was read aloud in class and praised. I also ended up graduating from the program, and he ended up just a few credits short because his life was in chaos. Don’t think that I don’t know which one of us is inherently more gifted in entrepreneurial business. In a way, I think that strong Te often allows its valuers to succeed undeservedly in some things—in essence Te is both a blessing and a curse. Because of all of the greatly diversified bases I scrambled to cover in my youth, I was thus mistakenly pulled towards many different directions—even if many of them were manufactured—I nonetheless achieved success in many of them. I think those who have a narrow and definitive passion in only one direction, ultimately fare better and are more satisfied on a personal level. LIEs are often able to see some things as a challenging board game where we can deftly learn the rules for success, see where the apparent weaknesses and loopholes are, and then can then end up mistakenly believing we are passionate about something, when the truth is that we just ended up with another modicum of success. But the joke is on us, because we often then get stuck in things that other people have a natural talent and passion for. And in those cases, we acknowledge our mistaken path and have to backtrack. Because, particularly for Te/Fi valuers, we ultimately desire and need to be both successful AND authentic.
An example I can give of an LIE being able to use Te to manufacture success is when I watched my LIE son try out for a Midget Rep hockey team. They were doing one-on-one drills, and most players would just enthusiastically jump out on the ice when it was their turn. Of course my LIE son looked on the other bench to calculate that he would be matched up against the leading scorer on the previous year’s team, when my son was a first-timer and the youngest age eligible. He sat down on the bench feigning interest in his skates while a few kids in the line passed him, and then he stood up. I knew exactly what he was doing—he was choosing to go up against someone on the other bench who he knew he could easily beat. Now, the complicated question is: once he makes that team, is it a mistake that he was chosen? Arguably yes…but arguably, also no. It’s likely not a mistake to choose someone who knows how and when to pick his battles, and also this son in particular was renowned for creatively timing his emergence from the bench or penalty box to create sneaky breakaway opportunities—because he looked at where everyone else was, what they were doing, and who was the easiest player on the other team to choose as an opponent to challenge in order to overtake and thereby guarantee success.
My ILE son has two years left to complete his business degree. He is obsessed with modern technology, the advent of self-driven cars, bitcoin, the meta-verse etc. He is Ti creative, my ex-husband is Ti leading. And here is where I am going to make my point about why I believe Ti is inherently superior to Te in terms of legitimate and credible veracity. If LIEs were in a company where this new technology was gradually developed, then LIEs could absolutely be on the top of that informational pyramid. However when it comes to something completely new where the LIE has no previous skills or experience from which to draw upon, I believe that Ti valuers can more easily walk in cold, with NO experience or previous groundwork, and adapt and grasp such new technical ideas quicker without any pre-existing foundational knowledge. In fact they thrive on that, they want to understand new systems because it genuinely tickles their passion. LIEs in contrast, thrive on knowing the given parameters, and evaluating weak points and then strategically exploiting them for personal gain. For me with a Te lead, but also being authentically Fi-driven, I admire that natural passion for knowledge for its OWN SAKE, rather than seeking knowledge in order to achieve success, money or status.
What prompted me to resurrect this archival post is the description of Prince’s RRHF performance by @
CptLandhawk in “Gamma Music”. In my opinion, Te is akin to the session musician being able to replicate Eric Clapton’s guitar solo note-for-note in the middle solo of George Harrison‘s classic
While My Guitar Gently Weeps. It successfully achieves and aptly satisfies the required parameters within the given situation. In contrast, it is undoubtedly much more admirable in my opinion, to be able to creatively COMPOSE music—to not be afforded any rehearsal, and yet still kill a guitar solo as Prince did in the outro. He was able to both instinctively and seamlessly interact with the other musicians on the fly, yet at the same time lead the artistic performance to an entirely unprecedented level…all while being emotionally present, unrehearsed, and sensorially immersed in the moment.
https://youtu.be/6SFNW5F8K9Y
Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam
LIE dating a LII? Friends of course, but dating, long-term relationship? Are you completely sure about both your types? Sounds like a extremely uncommon match.
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. I refuse to answer to this.
but I respect your opinion on the matter.
Haha, and I'm not even embarrassed, I just see it as having my priorities straight. Needless to say, it became clear that the joke was on us, as we weren't able to keep up with what other "normal people" did as a matter of course. When we broke up he presented me with a list of reasons and a chart of how we would handle the breakup. I found it comforting as it was so well thought and planned out...we even shook hands.
" More emoting, less nostalgia.
really? That's your take on the issue but it's definitely not a specific rule of life.
I'm yours forever with the good and the bad!" Smilies hearts everywhere etc.
