I am sure while they were younger they angsted 24/7.
Why is the word "emo" used to describe IEIs/INFps?
I am sure while they were younger they angsted 24/7.
D-SEI9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
A little while before this thread was created, I refered to Sirena's latest photos in the Official Member Picture Thread as "emo" and even called it "Beta flavored emo," so I guess I'm partly the inspiration for this thread?Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica
Why do I see the word "EMO" used to describe IEIs in here??
I mean, it's one of those words I'd never use to describe any IEIs I know - far from it, actually.
I'm curious, do these people say "EMO" in anyone's mind, and if so, in what way? I deliberately chose pictures where they look dreamy and soft, but even then I don't see "EMO"
Anyway, emo is just a bunch of whiney, suburban bushizzle by psuedo intellectual types who think they're all tortured and shit. I'm not sure how serious you thought my comments were or if you're just curious about where this perceived "stereotype" comes from, but I've seen plenty of emo IEIs in pictures and posts and certainly enough to justify the correlation.
Some of your examples, like Kurt Cobain, look plenty "emo" as well. Even among those like myself who joke like this, it's not honestly believed that this is a general trait intrinsic to all IEIs.
Last edited by duality is cringe; 05-02-2009 at 07:25 PM.
It's in the way that the majority of emos are NiFe's.
But it's still not a general rule....
I'm my vocabulary "emo", is anyone who shows too much emotionsYou're being emo about being upset about people calling NiFe's emos
[img]http://www.seleckis.lv/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/******_emo.jpg[/img]
Anyway I get you, it's like calling all NT's nerds.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
SEIs can be pretty emo. Franz Kafka was emo & probably IEI. I think the general trend is that most people of any type aren't emo.
Interestingly enough, I'm attracted to emo girls for some reason. I don't know how or why.
Google image search on emo, and start typing or more like guessing their types based on VI
lol yeah, I don't use word emo seriously. Well maybe they have to be more on the melancholy side and introverted.So, for you that would be any ethical type......? lol... I think of "someone complaining nonstop about how shitty their lives are but never ending it" when I think emo.
Ack, maybe I was being emo tooHmm... How could you read emotions into my question?
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
yep
The end is nigh
Yes, we SEIs are very emo.
Just, in an emotional way. Not a dark way. That's EIEs.
yeah i find the emo subculture to be pretty aesthetically oriented and pretty infantile.
its mostly alphas
The end is nigh
Everything is Alpha.
Including The Cure <3
Care to elaborate on "infantile"?
You haven't made a thread about it, but you have said about it in other threads too. Starfall has also.Have I written about it before? If you say so... lol... I have a terrible memory...
Yeah it happens. And many cases people can't shake the stereotypes, even when other evidence implies otherwise.If it seems it bothers me, it's only because I dislike stereotypes used as a typing tool. I think stereotyping is a major source of mistypings on this forum. So I make these threads to create mess in people's stereotypical socionics/type systems... I like mess.
Yeah it's that all these different groups attract similar-minded people, and similar minded people are usually of the same type(s), and of types close to the central type(s). Instead of a even spread of all types.And, for the record, I don't dislike emo people at all, they are cute. It's just not as if they are all IEIs.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Sure.
Ime with emo stuff, its mostly with the kind of kids who have an infantile/caregiver romantic style. Like they're emo, but they also act zany, and idk they just have that "I'm an Alpha NT and i have dark feelings."
Male ENFp's can be pretty emo too. Hmm its hard to explain because its based on all this random information I have about the subculture through personal and non-personal experiences.
Just, Alpha teenagers pull that kinda, "Im dark and disturbed, now lets go make internet related jokes and read manga's"
The end is nigh
another reason to hate emos
I would consider Kurt Cobain emo. It's a dark, depressed, subdued (not over dramatic) emo, but still emo.
Emo means somebody who is not just emotional (we all are emotional) but somebody who doesn't know how to properly handle their emotions yet, because they naturally feel things more deeply than others do. So when they try to express themselves, without the proper life experience (4s integrating into 1s to be more objective) -- it comes across as whiny and self-defeating.
They usually are suburban teenagers, who are growing up with parents that mean well, but are way too sheltered/neurotic themselves to know how to properly teach a kid all the life lessons, so instead they try to make them happy via music and video games and a bunch of crap they don't need. These parents say they have liberal ideals, but in all reality behave very conservative & authoritarian over their little teen.
The Western World, compared to other countries- like Canada, for example-- favors power and authority over caring for your own emotional needs. So emos might want to consider moving to a place where the arts are more appreciated.
I don't think emos should get the abuse that they do. If you call somebody emo, chances are you are emo yourself, because to me 'If you spot it, you got it.' They just feel things more deeply than others, and that can be difficult.
Also I think what bothers people about emos is because it is very depressing/negative emotions yeah compared to anything happy or positive.
I think people figure, life is already hard enough without reading some kid's whiny poetry. Get a job already, or fine some other activity to do. It's like, it's almost as if it's an absence of emotions, a pain so deep for them that they numb themselves of feeling anything.
Emotions only come via experiences.
The emo subculture is, by and large, fairly alpha IME, but a lot of the music, like My Chemical Romance, is actually super-Beta.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
1 It's a style of rock music: ([ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo[/ame])
Emo emerged from the hardcore punk scene of early-1980s Washington, D.C., both as a reaction to the increased violence within the scene and as an extension of the personal politics espoused by Ian MacKaye of Minor Threat, who had turned the focus of the music from the community back towards the individual. Minor Threat fan Guy Picciotto formed Rites of Spring in 1984, breaking free of hardcore's self-imposed boundaries in favor of melodic guitars, varied rhythms, and deeply personal, impassioned lyrics. Many of the band's themes would become familiar tropes in later generations of emo music, including nostalgia, romantic bitterness, and poetic desperation. Their performances became public emotional purges where audience members would sometimes weep.
2 It's a style/fad/fashion stereotype:
Today emo is commonly tied to both music and fashion as well as an inspiration toward the emo subculture, and the term "emo" is sometimes stereotyped with:• tight jeans on males and females alikeThis fashion has at times been characterized as a fad. Early on, emo fashion was associated with a clean cut look but as the style spread to younger teenagers, the style has become darker, with long bangs and emphasis on the colour black replacing sweater vest.
• long fringe (bangs) brushed to one side of the face or over one or both eyes
• dyed black, straight hair
• tight t-shirts (usually short-sleeved) which often bear the names of emo bands (or other designer shirts)
• studded belts, belt buckles
• canvas sneakers or skate shoes or other black shoes
• thick, black horn-rimmed glasses.
3 A teen-culture subculture often used to classify teens such as Hannah Bond, who join suicide cults and use their father's tie to hang themselves from their bunk beds:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-cult-emo.html
(edit: after reading more about her, it looks as if that article was exaggerated quite a bit)
4 The abbreviation of emotional:
1 arousing or characterized by intense feeling
2 (of a person) having feelings that are easily excited and openly displayed
Anyway, I would object to associating any of these with IEIs as a general trait. Except, perhaps, the fourth one. However, I also think that almost any person is capable of being emotional, so at that point the connection's not even worth bringing up.
Last edited by Lotus; 05-02-2009 at 10:34 PM.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
word. word.
& MP I agree lol, none of the IEIs I know are that emo, unless they are depressed, but I mean no shit right? Except I guess even when I was depressed, I made a point not to dress emo or come across emo like in any way because I felt as though that would take out the sincerity of my emotions and just make it fake and commercialized which is just weird lol.
They come across as really cheery, even when they feel shit, especially if they love you (& its not a serious sharing convo).
Also.
I like that Conor guys music, his lyrics draw me in even if they have an emo feel, I just rave to a bit of Flo Rida after lol :tongue:. & I fucking love IEIs. Especially the boys (well the one I know), they make me feel all warm and fuzzy and yum.
Random but lol I just thought i'd share
IEI, sp/sx 4w3.
Nah, Cobain had genuine psychological issues, that is different from 'emo' the psychological affect attidue. "Emo" is to pretend to have what Cobain had for real. Psychological issues are not type related.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Bingo, Wittmott.
it depends how we're defining emo then... i don't see "emo" and "psychological issues" as mutually exclusive.
I was speaking of the hipper, more superficial aspects of the sub-culture, although I'm not saying Alpha's are these things, but the majority of teenagers are lol
The end is nigh
Well gang, the hard part of emotions is that they are just so fucking subjective. Only *You* really know what something (or somebody) meant to you. You take 3 different people and place them in the same circumstance, those 3 people might get 3 different emotions out of the experience.
I would say emotions are different than FEELINGS because emotions are about the thoughts, feelings and behavior that go with the total sum of a living, active experience. They are deep, poignant and all around you. So you can't have a genuine EMOTION just sitting in your room all day, but you could have a genuine FEELING doing that.
To me, 'emos' are still stuck in the 'Feeling' stage... their real emotions are buried deep down via superficial feelings. For example, sometimes I can be like this if I don't leave the house enough...like, I think I'm in love when really I'm pissed off.
to clarify, I wasn't thinking of emo in that fake overdramatic goth paint-your-nails black and sing whiny music way, because that's a culture. I think it's an
Oh Nietzsche!This book belongs to the most rare of men. Perhaps not one of them is yet alive. It is possible that they may be among those who understand my "Zarathustra": how could I confound myself with those who are now sprouting ears?--First the day after tomorrow must come for me. Some men are born posthumously.
The conditions under which any one understands me, and necessarily understands me--I know them only too well. Even to endure my seriousness, my passion, he must carry intellectual integrity to the verge of hardness. He must be accustomed to living on mountain tops--and to looking upon the wretched gabble of politics and nationalism as beneath him. He must have become indifferent; he must never ask of the truth whether it brings profit to him or a fatality to him... He must have an inclination, born of strength, for questions that no one has the courage for; the courage for the forbidden; predestination for the labyrinth. The experience of seven solitudes. New ears for new music. New eyes for what is most distant. A new conscience for truths that have hitherto remained unheard. And the will to economize in the grand manner--to hold together his strength, his enthusiasm...Reverence for self; love of self; absolute freedom of self.....
Very well, then! of that sort only are my readers, my true readers, my readers foreordained: of what account are the rest?--The rest are merely humanity.--One must make one's self superior to humanity, in power, in loftiness of soul,--in contempt.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Laughing lions
The end is nigh
I agree with what you're saying. Also, I read this today and found it very annoying:
A defined individuality? How are you being an individual if you define yourself according to a something else? Ugh."I like going out dressed in emo clothes because it causes a stir. There aren't many emos where I live, so people look at you.
"It makes you feel individual."
That sense of rebellion and non-conformity is something that 21-year-old Jennina Taylor-Wells can relate to.
Now a student at Oxford Brookes University, she became an emo at 16.
For her, it was also about making a statement.
"I was going through an unhappy period at school," she recalls. "I grew up in the wealthy area of Cheshunt in Hertfordshire, and I was surrounded by spoilt rich kids. I felt that being an emo gave me a defined individuality."
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Also a lot of that has to do with predatory media sharks that prey on adolescent angst. In other countries where the media doesn't have so much power, you see a lot less of that, I think. The 'pimply angsty american teenager with a hoodie and i-pod' seems to be primarily a culture thing, a fake sort of get-up that they feel they HAVE to be in order to fit in (non-conform to conform), because the ones with real power are the ones that project that image upon young people.I was speaking of the hipper, more superficial aspects of the sub-culture, although I'm not saying Alpha's are these things, but the majority of teenagers are lol
It's also a sign of being spoiled. If you have to just worry about raw, simple survival like most people and can't glorify your Narcissism like you can here in the US of A, you have no time for that BS.
yeah this is true
The end is nigh
To me a real emotion requires ambiance, and physical objects. Like if you're out living, and you see two people arguing it might make you sad. (or it might amuse you, like it does me =/) LoL. It also might make you think too. You go out, observe something external - and it makes you think, feel AND also it can motivate you to act. That is why artists are called to 'Live fully' it means just that.
A feeling however, is a temporary internal state that comes no matter what, that you can kinda force yourself to remember and feel, but it's not happening right NOW. It's just a recollection of a feeling, what doing nothing and just listening to music can give you. It's kind of 'ghostly emotions.' You can wring out and pay privy to every feeling you ever had before- and dwell on that, but eventually you'd just bury your real EMOTIONS deep down. And start becoming neurotic.
You can try to change your feelings I suppose by doing nothing, and fixate your internal states until you come up with a real good feeling, to action. But I think that's impossible, and just causes neurotic disorders. I also have a theory that that's where a lot of strokes and heart attacks come from. This sort of intense repression and absence of living, just is not healthy for anybody.
Jaw-clenchingly painful nerve brush, go.
Ok, Allie.
You have an identity. Good for you.
Some people don't. Some people have had to deal with fucking split identities. Sure, I can spin up a bunch of things to describe myself with, but that's like patching bits of paper and magazines onto some invisible sphere floating off in the depths of space.
It's fantastic that you know who the hell you are. Really it is. I'm pretty sure you can leave these forums now, secure in your own "identity". Go on now.
Get the fuck out.
Do you know the two reasons I picked up Socionics?
1) Like hell I'm going to put my kids through the same screwed up shit my parents did. Do you know why they did it? A fucking Supervision fight. Years of my childhood, being used as little more than an attack dog, just because my parents hated eachother. What the hell? And people wonder why I have no love for either of them.
2) I like boxes. Boxes tell me who I am. They contain me. They're like a brace, giving me support and security. Do you know why? I'm sure you can guess. Read up a bit. Do you know what it's like not being able to tell who you are? Am I my internal monologue? The feelings I get through my body? My senses? Who? Have you ever had thoughts split out of your mind and begin interacting with you? Do you have any idea how screwed up that is? Do you know how much it sucks to come out of that almost completely disconnected from reality? No? Then once again: get out of here.
You serve no purpose on these forums. You only make it a terrible experience for others with your insensitive argumentative shit.
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE
So anyway.
Thanks for ruining my day. Die in a fire.
Nah, identity doesn't give me security. Why would identity give me security? Identity isn't me, it's just who or what I am. I don't need it. Take away my name, my social security number. Take away my house, my friends, my accomplishments. I'm still the same person. Let me slip off the face of civilization, and I'm still the same fucking person. Identity is a load of bullshit. It doesn't define you, only your actions do.
Grow up. You think you're alone in that regard? You think you're the only one who has experienced issues with their parents? For fuck's sake, don't feed me self-pitying rants. I don't care what you make of your problems, they aren't any more real or any more cutting than anyone else's. Tell me again that I don't understand what something is like, go ahead. Revel in your own arrogance. You know nothing and you will continue to know nothing when you project your issues onto me.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Do you think it is typical of IEI's to have this kind of "hyper-emotionalism"?to clarify, I wasn't thinking of emo in that fake overdramatic goth paint-your-nails black and sing whiny music way, because that's a culture. I think it's an
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Gul, you'd be wise to ignore Allie's ego boosting comments, but she has a point. People suffer a lot and screaming them on a forum doesn't help anyone.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Thanks for the insight, Miss Samsa. What makes you better than a cockroach then? Hmm? Humor me.
Oh dear, it seems like I've managed to make you angry. I think you're reading far too much into my rant. Everyone has bad parents, that's completely unrelated to my identity issues.
In your defence, though, I'm not really sure why I listed that. My parents are not one of the things that cause me distress.
Anyway, you're cute when you're angry. Keep up the good work!
What are you talking about?
I'm not even angry. I just think your ranting is petty attention-seeking and I won't tolerate someone who tries to put down others' problems with their own self-inflated sense of struggle. It's really naive and immature.Oh dear, it seems like I've managed to make you angry. I think you're reading far too much into my rant. Everyone has bad parents, that's completely unrelated to my identity issues.
In your defence, though, I'm not really sure why I listed that. My parents are not one of the things that cause me distress.
Anyway, you're cute when you're angry. Keep up the good work!
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
I don't know. I guess I feel apathetic about it... Frankly it wouldn't make sense to use "emo" as a defining criteria for any type... but to say there's no relationship at all doesn't make sense either.
If "you" are simply your actions, what makes you better than a cockroach? A simple machine, carrying out preprogrammed instructions ad infinitum.
Or rather, perhaps I need to dig deeper. What are you running from? Which emotions hurt you so that you must rationalize them away? What's your boogeyman? It's only fair that you tell me in return.
I'm putting down others' problems? I've got a self-inflated sense of struggle?
You're projecting things onto me. As I said above, what are you running from?
Let's have some fireside spiritu-gul healing.
It's the ISFx's being Emo...
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
This thread seriously brings the lulz.
Gulanzon, that really made you seem selfish and immature, unfortunately. I don't understand the point of you lashing out at Allie - it really seemed nonsensical, tbh, and like a strange tangent from any point she was making. Yeah, we've all suffered from a lot of things... I can recognize that kind of whinging because I used to be like you - well, at least what you appear to be - blowing up one's problems as terrible and at a higher level than the normal people of society.
Bullshit.
Anyway, to answer the original question about Emo and IEI - there definitely is some truth to this label. I think the combination ofand
The reason that 'emo' comes across is because of the way IEI, especially IEI teenagers, deal with their developing functions... outward emotional expression. Why are so many of thos emo/indie bands just ripe with Fe creatives? That's why.
There's a difference between
IEIs will tend to just 'not care' as much ala Kurt Cobain and his dress sense... I may be biased here, but I must say that IEIs bring a more inward focus and I daresay that the backlash against the typical scene/emo kids are mainly matured Betas against the Alpha domination of what is originally, at heart and truly, a Beta thing. Is that offensive? Or does anyone understand what I'm trying to say here... ?
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