Manifestations of INTp's suggestive/dual-seeking Se?

[FlameReborn]

http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15279

I read this awhile back. Not all of it, but enough. I'm kind of skeptical, but I wanted to put it through you guys' processes to see what ccame out.

Pretty much, since ILIs also seek Se, i wondered if there was a similar behavior, not necessarily looking in mirrors? I know I tend to go back and reread things I just posted, but I don't know if that counts...

[BLauritson]

Hmm.. I wonder if it's not just the Se-valuing but also the creative Fe. I've known a fair few INFps and they've always had a very good dress sense, whereas an INTp often requires (in my personal experience anyway) help from others, due to weak Se and unvalued Fe. What I'm trying to get at is that INFps are more likely to be aware of what's socially appropriate in matters like dress and whatnot, whereas INTps are (by default) more oblivious. I'm only hypothesising here though, I could be wrong.

[FlameReborn]

On a side note, I dunno if I've met any IEIs in RL, but i've met a few online. I find them intriguing, and slightly annoying. they all seem to have the ability to bite your head off while acting so very sweet.

For some reason, i seem to harbor some hostility towards them in general. Associations with past experience.

[crazedrat]

they get me angry when they impose opinions on to others; particularly having to do with the idea of not imposing opinions onto others.

[FlameReborn]

Opinions like this?

I'm no witch, just a vixen which has eluded your need to know all. You will have to accept that those whom you think you know, you can never truly know at all.

We all have secrets, thoughts, opinions, attitudes, most of which are hidden far beneath the surface. And though you try to probe into the hearts of your subjects, there is a center through which you will never enter. It is that center, which makes each of us who we are.

BTW, while we are on the subject of IEI annoyance, please be conscious that this digresses from my original inquiry.

[FlameReborn]

i wanted to know what crazedcat defines as an "imposing opinion". for example, some people might define "imposing opinon" to include even stressing empirically verifiable fact. which the point i was getting at, is perhaps more an INTp trait than it is an INFp one. (e.g. INTp's can "impose opinions" if those "opinions" are empirically verifiable facts.)

That happens with me. if i think someone is off, it becomes difficult for me to resst attempting to fix their ignorance, usually by dispensing the facts, be they subjective or objective I guess my mind just subconsciously believes "If you ignore the fact that your shoe is untied, you are bound to trip up and crack your skull like an egg." Of course, few people are willing to step back and examine themselves using an unfavorable light.

true, i need to be more conscious of when i am not posting on Alpha. i thought it was somewhat relevant though because a large part of the original post was the differentiation of INTp's and INFp's.

Not necessarily. I put the central question in the subject line. But I dn't mind digressons. I often get just as much out of those.

[FDG]

i wanted to know what crazedcat defines as an "imposing opinion". for example, some people might define "imposing opinon" to include even stressing empirically verifiable fact. which the point i was getting at, is perhaps more an INTp trait than it is an INFp one. (e.g. INTp's can "impose opinions" if those "opinions" are empirically verifiable facts.)

That happens with me. if i think someone is off, it becomes difficult for me to resst attempting to fix their ignorance, usually by dispensing the facts, be they subjective or objective I guess my mind just subconsciously believes "If you ignore the fact that your shoe is untied, you are bound to trip up and crack your skull like an egg." Of course, few people are willing to step back and examine themselves using an unfavorable light.

That's the same for me. If a watermelon is falling on your head, I feel the need to really impose the opinion that a watermelon is falling on your head so that you can move.

In terms of IEI, I get along great with the Ni ones, very bad with the Fe.

[FlameReborn]

I intended the shoelace thing as a metaphor. I don't usually point out dumb little things people do on accident, or even care. Usualy, I only "wake up" if people consistently demonstrate ignorance of what I hold to be reality (for me this is he conceptual rather than the concrete realm). Also, I feel a need to warn people. "If you keep on doing this, then..." Things no one else seems to see coming.

And if I'm serious, I'm not likely to soften the blow, but I do make a conscious effort to make it a glancing one. at these times, I worry about killing people's spirits. My goal is to keep them on the safer or better path, never to crush. But if they do turn on me with offended sensibilities, yes my first instinct is to mock.

[misutii]

I intended the shoelace thing as a metaphor. I don't usually point out dumb little things people do on accident, or even care. Usualy, I only "wake up" if people consistently demonstrate ignorance of what I hold to be reality (for me this is he conceptual rather than the concrete realm). Also, I feel a need to warn people. "If you keep on doing this, then..." Things no one else seems to see coming.

And if I'm serious, I'm not likely to soften the blow, but I do make a conscious effort to make it a glancing one. at these times, I worry about killing people's spirits. My goal is to keep them on the safer or better path, never to crush. But if they do turn on me with offended sensibilities, yes my first instinct is to mock.

I have a good INTp friend but also have conflicted with INTps in the past so I think I understand what annoys you...

Ni is what INTp and INFp primarily have in common, so long as you're both primarily using Ni to inform each other relations will be great.

The problem is when we get to the issue of Te (INTp creative function/INFp PoLR) and Fe (INTp PoLR/INFp creative function). So let's say in your mind you use Te to report to me an observation you've made that you think is insightful and want me to acknowledge i.e. you say "you're useless in practical matters so you never accomplish anything". In your mind you feel that you're just trying to be helpful, by enlightening me on my weakness you'd think I would that use that information to become stronger. The problem ends up being that you hit my Te-PoLR, see I'm already quite aware of these weaknesses, maybe even sensitive to them, but I, myself, feel powerless/don't know how to overcome them. So I interpret your remarks as personal criticism (it's kind of like as if you're an able-bodied person and I'm a cripple and we're talking and suddenly you say to me "you're crippled so you can't walk normally" ) and I react in an emotionally indignant manner - it makes me feel like you're focusing on my weaknesses and/or like you don't value me as a person because of said weaknesses. My reaction seems exaggerated to you, you're thinking "why is he making such a big deal out of this, he must hate me" because by applying emotional pressure to you I've hit your Fe PoLR. By this time we're both being pathetic.

You can avoid this by elaborating on Te remarks you make with your Ni. Instead of merely telling me what my weaknesses are you should tell me why you're telling me this and how I might use my strengths to overcome said weaknesses.

Asking me to simply accept the fact that a statement is valid is akin to, for example, a situation where you feel like shit you're trying to discuss it with me and instead of listening and sympathizing with you I press the Fe button and smile and say "cheer up, it's no big deal!!" I've learned not to do this with INTps, instead of using Fe to make them feel better (which would be my natural response) I should try to use Ni - to listen to you, to provide you with information, to bitch with you rather than at you etc.