Why Ne?

[InkStrider]

There's no virtue in selfishness. Virtue is predicated on how you treat others; she uses people as tools to get what she wants and she promotes this; all men are islands in her world; one person being good means there's nothing to be good towards if you don't have other human beings. I love people and being around them even if that drains my energy and I value genuine human interaction; not clouded by negative ulterior motives; an example of this in Ayn Rand's world is stating something in a covert way, "help me, I'll be your friend, only if you help me make money." Being with someone I love and taking part in an activity, sharing my love, my thoughts, my answers to things and getting feedback, social interaction. She promotes a world where authentic human interaction does not exist, where bonds are not made in loving and caring unity, and getting what you want out of them like tools and exploiting others to get what they want; LSE like results, not exploiting others to get what they want.

In my world of genuine human interaction is me paying attention to the cares and concerns of others and if I can help, letting them know I can and following through with it, if I can't I simply say so. And plus, I'm exceptionally honest so very little is left guessing about me, just my emotions when they get hurt and boil down to quietness where I try to conceal my feelings, but that's more of a reaction than an actual intent to hide things.

You lack understanding of her philosophy. But I won't debate it here. I don't love people as much as you do, unfortunately. But well, to be fair some people do welcome the brand of compassion and care you have to give. Just saying that there is a need to be able to discern who needs it and who doesn't, but it to me feels like a certain shallowness that I would have usually associated with being Alpha.

Furthermore, your lack of acceptance of me for who I am is really hurting my feelings. I have a damned profession where I've spent years acquiring knowledge in it.

I really don't care for such petty feelings. Okay good for you. I'm not at all implying that you do not have a profession and that you aren't good at it.

You think lacking compassion is a lack of depth, I think it's a lack of character, a lack of virtue and humanity. Maybe you and I have differing viewpoints anyway. Maybe you don't need a humanist.

Never have I said that a lack of compassion equates to a lack of depth. Your definition of compassion differs from mine. Compassion isn't to me some fluffy thing where you comfort people over puny, hurt feelings. Whoever does that to me will only earn from me a good kick.

But, you're right. I really don't need a humanist, definitely not your brand of humanist anyway. Since you give no qualms about telling people what you type them, I'd tell you what I think of you too.


Maritsa33 ESE CONFIRMED

[Absurd]

You lack understanding of her philosophy.

Haha!

[Nico1e]

Actually, Maritsa, I agree with what you were trying to do to distinguish between Se creative and Ne creative. I, too, have been puzzled by a difficulty in trying to see Ne in the things that Ryene writes, and not really being able to see it, and not quite knowing why or what to look for.

I looked at that video you posted, the lady up on the stage talking about what she wants for her daughter, and if I understand correctly, that's an example of an ESI, and a really good one at that. It shows the spirit of Se, in an admirable way.

I'm not really sure how to go about distinguishing between a Se and Ne creative, but in my opinion, you were doing okay with the questions you were asking.

[Nico1e]

This thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...830#post770830

I often take note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom. In that thread, Ryene and Kassie mentioned that they do see similarities in each other, and some of us have been suspecting an ESI type for kassie in her recent type threads.

[InkStrider]

Actually, Maritsa, I agree with what you were trying to do to distinguish between Se creative and Ne creative. I, too, have been puzzled by a difficulty in trying to see Ne in the things that Ryene writes, and not really being able to see it, and not quite knowing why or what to look for.

Define how you view Ne.

I often take note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom.

Note that it is only when the exchange occurs between healthy individuals that you can use intertype relations to gauge their socionics type. Non-socionics factors play a stronger role in determining compatibility than we give it credit for.

In that thread, Ryene and Kassie mentioned that they do see similarities in each other, and some of us have been suspecting an ESI type for kassie in her recent type threads.

Oh God, I see some similarity with Ashton. Ashton! Come join me in Deltahh!!

[Cuddly McFluffles]

@Maritsa33: I'm not under huge amounts of stress right now. When I said I'd had other things on my mind, I meant I haven't given a ton of thought to reformulating a worldview since coming out of the previous one (that life just threw a bunch of crap at me). The question I asked, you can find further up. I'm on my phone, or I'd copy and paste it.@InkStrider: You are capable of snark. Seriously, though, Kassie and I have noted similarities before, so it doesn't bother me horribly if someone brings that up. We both fit the "unconventional EII" label, even if the stereotype is kinda stupid to begin with. *cough*TohruHonda*cough* Maybe we just yell about it the loudest?

[Suz]

I often take note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom.

Same. It's very useful information for me.

[EyeSeeCold]

I often take note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom.

Same. It's very useful information for me.

I take note of who takes note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom.

[rat1]

I take note of who takes note of who talks with whom, who gets along with whom.

Do you have those notes saved on your computer or are they committed to memory?

[Beautiful sky]

Actually, Maritsa, I agree with what you were trying to do to distinguish between Se creative and Ne creative. I, too, have been puzzled by a difficulty in trying to see Ne in the things that Ryene writes, and not really being able to see it, and not quite knowing why or what to look for.

I looked at that video you posted, the lady up on the stage talking about what she wants for her daughter, and if I understand correctly, that's an example of an ESI, and a really good one at that. It shows the spirit of Se, in an admirable way.

I'm not really sure how to go about distinguishing between a Se and Ne creative, but in my opinion, you were doing okay with the questions you were asking.

Ne is coming out with possibilities, among one thing, and interprets objects beyond their face value; a brick is just a brick, hence it is static and something that Se sees so you can imagine Se going around looking at things, picking up static objects, you are static too when you're standing still so they look at all your features, your hair, eyes, what color you wear, what size you are, etc. Ne, unlike Se, looks at a brick but somehow the real and observable qualities of the object are lost to the individual and instead they see the potential, for example, a brick becomes what it can be used for, I see a wall when I see a brick, so I don't catch the details of brick but a wall; ideas develop out of Ne because the person suggests to you what you can do with that brick as they see the uses for that object, one can see many uses for the brick rather than the observable properties of the brick. I believe that Ryene is switching Se with Ne, using her Role function in the introduction to this thread, she's describing Ne properties.

This is a good example of Ne:

I tend to imagine situations playing out, usually worst-case scenarios. These never happen, and I just end up wasting mental and emotional energy. I also tend to have a certain idea of how things should work and how people should act, and I get very bent out of shape when these standards are not conformed to. I am having to learn that it is alright to have standards but unrealistic to expect everyone to conform to them. Finally, I have had to change my perspective on... many things, really, but especially in terms of my own personal power and capability.

The very use of Ne Role, by an SEE as wiki describes gives off distress as described by her in the above hi-light above that is not characteristic of EII.

Distress associated with this function accounts for the SEE's preference to have his pursuits be visible, close, available, and within the reach of his influence.

[Absurd]

What is the potential of a brick?

[Atlast]

...

Maritsa, is english not your first language -? You seem to have a lot of misunderstandings with the individuals in this thread. You don't seem to understand what they're saying - no fault of yours if you can't read the language, but it's to the point where communication seems impossible. Perhaps if that is the problem you should read up in English grammar and the like? Or maybe you should practice your people skills? I don't know, but the way you're responding and treating individuals in this thread from their innocent comments doesn't seem right at all for all your talk of feelings, sincerity and honesty in relations - do you not take criticism well?

[Beautiful sky]

You lack understanding of her philosophy. But I won't debate it here. I don't love people as much as you do, unfortunately. But well, to be fair some people do welcome the brand of compassion and care you have to give. Just saying that there is a need to be able to discern who needs it and who doesn't, but it to me feels like a certain shallowness that I would have usually associated with being Alpha.


I really don't care for such petty feelings. Okay good for you. I'm not at all implying that you do not have a profession and that you aren't good at it.


Never have I said that a lack of compassion equates to a lack of depth. Your definition of compassion differs from mine. Compassion isn't to me some fluffy thing where you comfort people over puny, hurt feelings. Whoever does that to me will only earn from me a good kick.

But, you're right. I really don't need a humanist, definitely not your brand of humanist anyway. Since you give no qualms about telling people what you type them, I'd tell you what I think of you too.


Maritsa33 ESE CONFIRMED

I guess you'd like to not speak with me; you're welcome to not do so because as it is, you won't either try to understand me or you are blocking me out because I don't meet your idealization; your very ideal of a perfect EII is one you've conjured up in your fantasy, an Ayn Rand loving EIIs; you live in a black box where everything that exists outside of what you will not except is excluded. That seems to include me. Ayn Rand is the person on the boat saying "I'm on the boat, pull up the life lines" she doesn't see anyone else privileged to be saved on that boat with her; got it? I don't despise her or single her out, I'm sure many successes have arisen from her philosophy, but I don't like that people take her as a cult leader and follow and preach about her. She's just another idea among many that have waived change and will continue to do so.

And yet, doing things for others helps you, personally feel good.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post817907

Whether you do things for others as a way of helping yourself feel good about yourself,
As a way of "proving" your superiority over others,
As a way of "looking good" to others, etc
It's still selfishness.
So I guess you think that there is no virtue in your attempts to help others?

Why do you type people maritsa? It's certainly not to help them...it's to help yourself...it's a selfish act.

Why do you feel a need to inform everyone of how unselfish you are?
Why do you feel a need to regularly inform everyone of how helpful you are?
Could it be because maybe your actions don't speak enough for themselves, so you feel a need to give it voice..else other people may not realize this about you?
Why is it so important to you that other people know this about you?
It's obviously important to you that others know, else you wouldn't feel compelled to bring it up every chance you get.
So, surely we can conclude that each time you bring it up, that you're thinking of your own needs/wants at tht moment. And maritsa...according to you, there is no virtue in that.

------


All of those are a form of selfishness on your part.
YOU want to be with someone you love
YOU want to take part in an activity
YOU want to share your love
YOU want to share your thoughts
YOU want to answer things
YOU want feedback
YOU want social interaction

Looking at the above, you're quite sefish, maritsa.
And according to you, there is no virtue in your wants.

--------

And finally, as to your claim that there is no virtue in selfishness,
Believe it or not, when most people finally acknowledge that they get something out of their so-called 'altruistic' actions, and what it its that they get from it, then they are usually more helpful to others. And you consider that to have no virtue?

I do things that I don't like and I think that's a true show of someone who does things to not make themselves feel good then you're doing it for the cause and not for the glory.

[anndelise]

I do things that I don't like and I think that's a true show of someone who does things to not make themselves feel good then you're doing it for the cause and not for the glory.

A) what do you do that you don't like?
B) why are you doing it? What do you hope will be the result of your doing of it?
Please be specific.

[Beautiful sky]

A) what do you do that you don't like?
B) why are you doing it? What do you hope will be the result of your doing of it?
Please be specific.

I don't like my volunteer work; I used to drag myself out of bed at 8am on Saturdays and go home at 5pm
I did it because people needed it.

[anndelise]

Ok, so people need something, you don't want to do it, but you drag yourself out of bed and work all day to do it.

Who's putting a gun to your head making you do it? Noone?
Then why are YOU doing it, rather than letting someone else do it?

[Beautiful sky]

Ok, so people need something, you don't want to do it, but you drag yourself out of bed and work all day to do it.

Who's putting a gun to your head making you do it? Noone?
Then why are YOU doing it, rather than letting someone else do it?

No one's putting a gun to my head. You do it because your community needs it. Period. It's another job, a contribution. Duty, honor. Whatever. It's the Gosh darn right thing to do.

[anndelise]

No one's putting a gun to my head. You do it because your community needs it. Period. It's another job, a contribution. Duty, honor. Whatever.

I need a better car than the one I have now.
Does that mean you will give me your car? Just because i need it?

Nm...you actually gave me what I needed...even though you tried hiding it.

You WANT to help your community.
You WANT to contribute.
You WANT to do your perceived duty.
You WANT to honor yourself, and the people you are helping.

So you do it. You get your wants met.

Are you going to now suggest that you get no joy from having done it?
That you get no sense of satisfaction for having done it?
That you aren't glad to have honored your values?
That you aren't happy to have helped those people?

[InkStrider]

@InkStrider: You are capable of snark. Seriously, though, Kassie and I have noted similarities before, so it doesn't bother me horribly if someone brings that up. We both fit the "unconventional EII" label, even if the stereotype is kinda stupid to begin with. *cough*TohruHonda*cough* Maybe we just yell about it the loudest?

I guess you'd like to not speak with me; you're welcome to not do so because as it is, you won't either try to understand me or you are blocking me out because I don't meet your idealization; your very ideal of a perfect EII is one you've conjured up in your fantasy, an Ayn Rand loving EIIs; you live in a black box where everything that exists outside of what you will not except is excluded. That seems to include me. Ayn Rand is the person on the boat saying "I'm on the boat, pull up the life lines" she doesn't see anyone else privileged to be saved on that boat with her; got it? I don't despise her or single her out, I'm sure many successes have arisen from her philosophy, but I don't like that people take her as a cult leader and follow and preach about her. She's just another idea among many that have waived change and will continue to do so.

I do things that I don't like and I think that's a true show of someone who does things to not make themselves feel good then you're doing it for the cause and not for the glory.

Lol, I think that it is you who prefer not speaking to me, not I to you. I've tried hard to understand you alright, and I'd been disappointed by my findings. Again, you lack understanding on Rand's philosophy. You want to argue about that, do it in the Ayn Rand thread and we'll analyze it there. I don't exactly feel like wasting much more time on you though.

You have served a very good purpose, in that in expressing your rather extreme views, you sparked good debate on common (and less-commonly) committed errors, and aided us in raising our own awareness. I would have liked to return the favor, if only you had not deemed it a gift from the devil.