SEEs-ESFps have butterfly eyes

[VixenDogFox]

Has anyone else noticed this?

It is quite a specific trait that I see again and again.

Some examples:

[Beautiful sky]

Liz Taylor is SEE and you are right they do have butterfly eyes.

[Suz]

can you explain what you mean by butterfly eyes? Is it the shape of the eye? or the eye lashes?

[redbaron]

I know an SEE and she has butterfly eyes too!

[Suz]

The shape of the eye, and the guys have it too. The eyes also tend towards being too far apart versus too close together usually. I notice a specific widening towards the outside.

I guess another word for those eyes are "doe eyes"...

So it's the eyes being wider at the outsides as compared to the nasal aspect of the eyes? Or just big round eyes?

[Solidad]

Has anyone else noticed this?

It is quite a specific trait that I see again and again.

Could it be that many *feminine or F-type* *actors* have butterfly eyes? (male/female)

Could it be that many SEE are just flirts? (eyes being one manifestation)

Could it be something subconsciously emphasized by the rest of the facial expression?

Could it be a good mascara application? :wink:

--

I'm always somewhat uncomfortable with VI because it seems close to becoming a (questionable) physical justification to stereotyping & predjudice-

That path to walk down is littered with the tragic histories of many men & women (of various religions, races, etc..) being VI'ed culturally so to speak - physicality being a "justified" reason for persecution -

Sorry if this is a rain on the parade - just wondering -

[Jarno]

yes they have distinctive eyes.

Also often a distinctive mouth with lowering corners.

Oh and more than average I see they have a witch nose.

[Solidad]

Oh and more than average I see they have a witch nose.

[Solidad]

You're not raining on any parade.

ok, cool -

(i didn't want to be a stick-in-the-thread-mud)

But .. I have a lot of friends who have vary narrow eyes... due to race/ biology reality-

they are SEE but don't have these big, wide, butterfly eyes... i guess --

type is mainly in the neo-cortex, no?...(not the genetic physical manifestations)--- anyway, currently, i have a philosophical problem with relying on the latter as a guidepost for the complex internal workings of a person.

If this is wrong... please, someone offer me some research about how genetic physicality is supposed to be superior to neo-cortex development... not for debate but just so I can get closer to truth --

[Solidad]

*Chuckles incessantly*

Oh wow...

why do i want to laugh (in melancholy way?) now too?

Hey, Jarno... please don't advocate the burning of people possessing of witch noses in the next thread! :-P

(although you might just be pulling my non-existent internet leg)

[Solidad]

Are you implying other races cannot have butterfly eyes? Maybe they are just more subtle? Hmmm?

:redface:

heh, heh...

ya, ya know....what the fuck do i know??

also, i just made a joke reference on another thread to this one --
--
anyway, next time i will bring a microscope with me when hanging out w/ friends & newcomers....to determine eye opening size ....yes!, it could be awkward at the dinner table... but so what??? it is all in the name of science, no?



hey!
i think your thread is interesting despite my poor sportsmanship :wink:

[Solidad]

Haha, you're fine! I enjoy your contribution. Say anything you like!

heh, you'ld be a great tango partner!

(literally or metaphorically)

((but your guy probably already knows that)) :wink:

[Solidad]

Awwwww thanks... you know he IS a great dancer. ;-)

But HEY! I figured out what I'm seeing in those butterfly eyes! It's the curvature of the little inner part of the eye (I don't think it's called the tear duct but it's where tears come out) is very similar for SEE's! Decidedly pointed downward. Also see the MILF VI post... same for both women posted. Wow.

ha, ha...

well you see that i am bitching & moaning in this thread about VI but then I went & used it in that other thread -- so you know... Whatevs!!

funny, huh?

that other thread w/ that girl... well
-she looks more white or latina to me & than my SEE friends who are asian so it is not the same thing.. --

really, though... I'm at a point (for awhile now) where i don't think your whole essential complex nature can be boiled down to eye shape, etc....physical nature stuff..... i find that to be a dangerous/superiority complex realm for us mortals.

it is the *interaction* in which I can tell someone's type (not appearances)

i can tell someone's type from the *phone* (sometimes, even just internet...if the interaction is long enough) - i don't need person-to-person at !all! to get an idea -- i don't need age or race or gender or photographs of someone's "cute-ness" so-to-speak ..... i've been studying personality stuff for about 15 years...
so i have a lot of background for a context
that is WAY more important than photos ---

anyhoos, i like controversial subjects sometimes...just because it brings out people's "umpff!" on figuring things out --

thanks for your thread, lady!!

(despite my curmudgeon writing syle)

INJs == can be really good dancers

ps... sounds like you are in a benefit/benefactor relationship

that can be difficult but also work out fine in the long run -- INTJs are wonderful friends & SO's (my best friend is LII)

anyway, i'm talking too much
to you gal!! :-)

[jughead]

woah what you said about the butterfly/doe eyes does ring true of the only confirmed of the female SEE's I know, but the same pattern for 2 i suspect of SEE. AND so does this "Also often a distinctive mouth with lowering corners. "Oh and more than average I see they have a witch nose. "
The witch nose about all 3 (slightly hooked and or elongated on all 3)also true not just myself saying that. Hope that was serious.

wikisocion meged/ocharov on
ethical sub SEE
"Often have convex eyes; gestures are smooth and confident. They’re inclined to dress unusually, brightly and extravagantly, however, their tendency to corpulence may limit their liberty to dress as they please. Gait is elastic and proud. "

sensory subtype SEE

"Possess good artistic abilities with which they amuse visitors. Usually thin and conscious of figure, periodically playing sports. Eyes are often small or deeply planted. Gestures display impatience and movements are nervous, gusty. Often change their pose; their gait appears weakened/shaky; speech tends to be either muffled or rapid. "

Any connection to the descriptions here?

[implied]

i thought those were called "false eyelashes." my bff wears falsies all the time and her eyes definitely look entirely different when she wears them. it changes the way the face looks for sure, much like when someone who never gets their eyebrows plucked/arched gets that done. as for the thing about the tearduct "pointing downward" i think that's just enhanced by the eyelashes, really. any good makeup artist knows you throw light there and darkness towards the outer corners so your eyes look bigger.

[Solidad]

Great talking to you!

Just curious, why do you think I'm in a benefit/benefactor relationship? I'm ESE, not SEE... my LII is my dual.

Jeese....sorry dude! I mean, duddette!! :wink:

I thought you were IEI -- I guess I though I read a thread were you typed as INFP....did you every type that way, ever? Anyway, Lo siento!...don't know why I was thinking that ...again...sorry!

Wow! you ya'll are duals -cool!

I work for an LII/ESFJ couple & they are so awesome to work for!! -

I think LSE and ESE are the best for me to work for, funny enough! IMO -- they are great business owners- fair with employees-- oops, offtrack again

[Solidad]

O

What type are you, out of curiosity?

I'm EII (subtype Ne) I'm a lot more outgoing than some other INFJs (so I've been told, anyway) -- :wink:
really, EII subtype NE are very different from subtype Fi in communicative energy level-

As ESE...do you ever get the hankering to "try something new" in work or creatively....or anything? do you want kids??

If you are not working... is that stressful? do you get restless? i would imagine an ESE would be restless in that situation --

by the way, my best friend (he is like my family) is LII (subtype Ne) yea!!

[FDG]

I'm not sure, I thought it was related more to ethnicity than anything else, but I'll take a look, I might just haven't noticed that yet.

[jessica129]

They just look like eyes to me

[munenori2]

They just look like eyes to me

Ha, I was about to make this same post. +1

But hey, here's my sis I think is SEE. Is that what you guys are talking about?

[Jarno]

"
The witch nose about all 3 (slightly hooked and or elongated on all 3)also true not just myself saying that. Hope that was serious.

yes it was serious. Glad to see that you've noticed it too.

[implied]

Actually, no, I examined the angles for degree. And I'm not talking about makeup -- I'm an ESE and pretty skilled at applying it on myself and others (not to toot my own horn TOO loudly) so I pay close attention to actual versus makeup effect. And I can point out SEE men with the same quality; it's not the makeup...

so post some angles, dude. let's see some math. i'm glad you can apply makeup!

[Microknight]

I'm not sure I understand, like this?

[implied]

I'm not sure, I thought it was related more to ethnicity than anything else, but I'll take a look, I might just haven't noticed that yet.

yeah it seems incredibly potentially racist, to be honest.

[crazedrat]

their eyes do have that special shape to them. i identify them in the same way as you do.

yeah it seems incredibly potentially racist, to be honest.

I hope you're not actually being honest, because this is retarded.

[Suz]

They just look like eyes to me

That's what I thought too. Still not really seeing any uniqueness to all these eyes.

[crazedrat]

munenori, your sister looks like an antelope. I bet she would be a good runner.

[implied]

their eyes do have that special shape to them. i identify them in the same way as you do.


I hope you're not actually being honest, because this is retarded.

why wouldn't it be? it's creepy. anyhow, i thought it was fairly agreed-upon by non-idiots that typing people by physical static features was completely retarded & should be somewhere back in the 1800's in that pile of shitty ideas like phrenology.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

[implied]

This, however, is nothing like that. I'm simply suggesting using a visible trait as a hint towards guessing type (probably just Gamma SF actually) just like we are all using personality traits as hints towards guessing type. Type itself would be the creepy, prejudice practice, if I follow your logic, not the methods used to deduce type. What is so crazy about using outward cues to figure what is going on inside? Isn't that socionics?

how is that not the same thing? at the very least it's completely stupid.

But, I shouldn't even bother to argue with my Conflictor, or should I? Or am I being a bigot in assuming so?

no, but you're being incredibly narrow-minded to frame your whole world & interactions with people around a very tentative theory.

One last note: I think it's more about the inner area of the eye, that place tears come out, being slanted slightly down. I'm seeing it in ESI's and SEE's consistently. Personally, my inner tear duct area (wish I knew what that was called officially) goes straight horizontally. Much less fetching/sexy, imo. Anyway, just something I've noticed. Pretending to be blind to physical similarities is more "racist" than noticing them BUT NOT DISCRIMINATING.

no one is saying to be blind to physical similarities, but i wouldn't imply that /eye shape/ says something about your personality.

anyhow, i asked you to give me some angles, since you've done measures of angles and made correlations. and since this is all so true and verifiable you should be able to do so.

[implied]

cool, let's see some proof.

[implied]

The photographs are the proof man!

But I want to note that I never claimed no one else ever possesses this characteristic, it's simply one I've seen in SEE's and ESI's.

If you look at eyes of SEE's and ESI's in relaxed-face photographs, you will see that at least one eye, but usually both, has an inner tear duct area that slants down at around a 30-45 degree angle.

That's as mathy as you're getting out of me.

you should talk about this with maritsa sometime!

[jewels]

yeah I've noticed it's true with the guys as well.

http://images.fanpop.com/images/imag...7_1024_768.jpg

[implied]

If that's meant to be insulting, I'm staying out of this one.
Low class...

dude, she's interested in it & probably can find a russian paper that backs up your findings that i haven't looked at. i think she used rick's superciliary arches to type him. i personally think it's a huge crock & borderline offensive in some respects, but apparently some people really believe in this stuff & think it's legit science.

do you have a problem w/ maritsa?

[crazedrat]

why wouldn't it be? it's creepy. anyhow, i thought it was fairly agreed-upon by non-idiots that typing people by physical static features was completely retarded & should be somewhere back in the 1800's in that pile of shitty ideas like phrenology.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

No, that is not agreed upon. The eyes also change shape according to mood and your state of mind, making this issue even more obscure. Now shut up.

[crazedrat]

I wasn't talking to you, you moron.
Anyway, I have seen identical twins with different looking eyes.
What exactly you mean by "Butterfly eyes" I will admit I didn't care enough about to read in detail. Basically I just took it as meaning "Hey, SEEs have these unique eyes which you can type them pretty consistently by identifying", and yes I agree with that.

[implied]

No, that is not agreed upon. The eyes also change shape according to mood and your state of mind, making this issue even more obscure. Now shut up.

you're only proving my point.

[crazedrat]

1. I for some reason did not see the quote above what you said, apologies.

yeah, well give me some time, christ. I mean, if you have a short term memory you should remember I agreed with you on my last post.

you're only proving my point.

Was she referring to static features of the eye? If she was, then I didn't read enough. But don't try to exaggerate how static the eye and its appearance really is. Compare twins and you will see how variant the look can be. All I saw her say is some shit about "Butterfly eyes", and who knows what the fuck that really means? Well, I can tell you ESFps can be typed consistently by looking at their eyes. It's probably the easiest way to type them. So surely that's what she meant? (Is she talking about the fucking eyelashes? I don't even accept that as a static part of the eye.) If this isn't what your reply is saying, and instead you're telling me I'm an idiot underhandly, well you can just fuck off.

[implied]

Was she referring to static features of the eye? If she was, then I didn't read enough. All I saw her say is some shit about "Butterfly eyes", and who knows what the fuck that really means? Well, I can tell you ESFps can be typed consistently by looking at their eyes. It's probably the easiest way to type them. So surely that's what she meant? (Maybe not..) If this isn't what your reply is saying, and instead you're telling me I'm an idiot underhandly, well you can just fuck off.

didn't i say at the beginning that typing people on static features was ridic? anyhow, yes, static features is what i got from it. she said she measured the angle of the actual eye, and talked about using relaxed-faced photographs (i.e. no emotion involved, "neutral" face so the eye WOULDN'T change shapes.) read again. i do think people can be typed according to expressions/watching video/observations, but no not the actual shape of the eye. it's a lot like saying all IPs are fatasses as far as i can tell.

[Jarno]

it's a lot like saying all IPs are fatasses as far as i can tell.

goddamned now I have to retype my girlfriend again.

[implied]

goddamned now I have to retype my girlfriend again.

dang.