.
Haha, no frigging way, your mum sounds like the mum of some guy I know. I got to know him through a friend of mine, we used to drink at his place, she did the same and still does I think. Once she stormed in and drank his booze and I heard "mum, stop that", it was 7 years ago, but I still laugh out loud when I recall that, plus she would ask that guy "what are you watching, what are you watching?" all the time.
Funny thing is, it's the same guy after a few shots started arguing with my friend there is oxygen on the Moon and telling my chipped tooth is growing back, weird family. He has a younger brother whom I first saw and thought it is a monkey, it was even more hilarious when I learned friends call him monkey.
Lock your door.Does anyone have any advice on how I could deal with these issues more effectively?
Wrong dichotomy.
Maybe there is some tendency but I don't think it's very strong. It sounds like this is more an issue you have with your mom and not so much socionics related.
Since you value Te/Fi yourself it could be that you naturally percieve their behaviour as less intruding. Or maybe as an Se polr you are very sensitive to intrusions generally. Just some speculations.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Same here, although, doing homework is/has been an obligation. Don't think private stuff is and as it's called, it's private, that is, one doesn't want the other person to know for some time(?)
There is a difference, but it's just me and I can be wrong...
I mean, this way, you're signaling you're going to do the same to your kids, okay, but there are bounds.
yeah, Agarina, i am with @FDG on this... i really dont think what you are describing is type-related.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Why so pessimistic? The tone that you assume is very negativist; Fi is meant to adjust relations not open up threads and complain about what you see as inadequate when it comes to other human beings and especially to relationships.
" since my mom is one of the worst and affects me the most "
Fix it.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
This sounds more like introverted/extroverted problem to me (provided that it is type related). I would have exactly the same problems with her if she was my mother. I even see some parallels to the behavior of my IEI brother. But that's the point, we don't often annoy each other that much, because wer're both introverted. It's the same with my mother and father.
You don't even know what she already tried. Maybe it's not her fault, did you ever think of this? No, because your only goal is to refute her self-typing.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Everything is type-related.
Positivism & negativism aren't synonymes for optimism & pessimism in Socionics. As far as I'm concerned they're tendencies to see what is present vs. what is absent. A positivist can well be pessimistic and a negativist can be optimistic. I don't know how they work in Maritsionics, and, frankly, I don't care.
Yeah, I'm working on it. The accommodation situation for students happens to be pretty bad so the wait is probably going to take a while.
There is almost always tension when a person lives with her parents after childhood, the territory, intrusions etc. Your problem is a global one. Parents are still getting used to the fact that their child has grown up and has her own personality and boundaries. Some parents never understand that. It's annoying but very human.
I think Aqua seems ILE, but don't generalize his behaviour over the whole type or Fe/Ti valuers. I know many ILEs who are very polite, ask permission and respect boundaries. In his videos Aqua seems like the Se-creative subtype, that might also have something to do with it.
I'm not saying that you're totally wrong though. The most intrusive type is EIE imo. It could be a personal thing though
I called you both pessimist and negativist. Two separate ones.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Neither are you. You have already proven your advice are terrific. Remember how you changed my typing, from gamma to alpha - even though you had CONFIRMED it and all, several times even. What a catastrophe if would've been if I had followed your relationship advice back then; I would've ended up with my superego or conflictor. I'm afraid I'd probably have killed myself by now, or worse, ended up an alcoholic single mom with no future. That's the kind of humanist you really are, Mariza. Think about it. Just think.
Yeah, well, I'm not saying every Fe/Ti acts like that or that any Fi&Te couldn't. I'm also not saying that sort of behaviour is bad or good per se, it's all a matter of how people feel about it. I can totally understand why someone like Aqua could think having to ask for a permission to borrow something relatively unimportant, for example, would be a waste of time/a sign of mistrust/nitpicking/whatever. This is not meant to be an attack towards non-Fi-valuers. It's merely a personal observation on how people from different quadras seem to often act/feel differently about boundaries and how this can cause misunderstandings and conflicts. I'm not generalizing anyone's behaviour over all Fe/Ti-people, I used Aqua&my mom as examples of something I've seen in a lot of people. This includes folks that aren't ILE or EIE. I'm sorry if I sounded overtly aggressive or something. I clearly need to put more effort into shaping my posts.
I created this thread to get to hear other's experiences and ideas (- be they similar or contrary to mine) and thoughts/experiences on how these things can be dealt with. In the end I really don't care if the dichotomy we're talking about is merry vs serious or something else. It was just an assumption that made a lot of sense to me. In any case I'd rather not have this thread turn into a pointless Fe vs Fi rant.
By saying that something is not type-related you are saying that every type has the EXACT same possibility of having that trait/committing that action. Which in almost all cases is utter bullshit. Are you really saying that an EII, for example, has the exact same possibility to cross people's personal boundaries and act in socially inappropriate ways than, let's say, SLE? Sounds a little wacky, eh?
Which is?
That behavior goes against every description of Fe that I have encountered, as well as enneagram 3, most common type for EIEs.
Soooo much subjectivism going on in this thread.
Either this is not related or is related to something else..
Because this is my problem with a lot of folks as well. The only people to properly respect this stuff is a few LII's and ESE I've met. Otherwise people are just impolite assholes. I can be impolite due to my weak ethics, but I've learned not to be as intrusive. The most intrusive individual I've known is a ILI guy and a SEE girl who I don't know that well.
Some of this is learned as well, people don't naturally become polite overnight, but as people get older these patterns become more set. It could also be related rather then ethics/logic related.
I agree that it's probably Se related.
On another note, I think there is the possibility that Agarina is LII not EII.
Don't hate me!!!
...except with parents.
Honestly, I have never had this problem, except with parents. In most cases, they will always see you as their kid and never listen to you. I could bet that even if I were to become the most recognized expert in the world in subject X, my mother and father would still think my advice is nonsensical. What can you do! Makes life more varied...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I'm with your mom you asshole. It's a long topic but I'd just say that you don't understand the concept of public space. Everyone today knows that there is a document called Constitution ("Magna Carta") but very few know that there used to be a parallel document called "Charter of the Forest". It existed with the very specific purpose of limiting the extension of what is considered private property.
Egoistical people don't seem to understand the concept that something doesn't belong to anyone in particular, so it's free for anyone to take it as they please. This is exactly what happens with the contents of the fridge when you live in a family. It's absurd that you expect people to wonder whom's that piece of cake or that soda. If it's in the fridge you can take it unless you've been told to keep something for a special purpose. They have no right to reproach you for taking it if they don't.
But most important thing of all is that you buy stuff to share it with your people and leave it in the fridge for them to take. It's not normal that you put stuff in the fridge only when it's four yourself. This parents understand well.
Learn to live in a group or live alone in a cave.
[] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
I haven't noticed anything of the kind tbh so I'm with the NTR crowd. A couple of suggestions concerning this problem: parents are generally poor at observing boundaries of their children; Aqua may have less regard for personal boundaries being sx/so, sx/sp's seems to erect more boundaries and have a greater need for privacy (is your mom so/sx by any chance?); you're not communicating the extent of your boundaries in a way that Fe/Ti-valuers can easily pick up on and your requests are getting lost in translation.
Lol. I don't live in Mexico. In this part of the world taking something that belongs to someone else is called stealing, and it's defined as a crime by law. If you don't like the idea then I advice you to stay where you are, but don't try to force your own ideals down my throat. It's certainly not up to you to decide what sort of things are or aren't acceptable in my family.
[] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
If Mike is right about anything, it's that one should probably be more definite about who shares what with whom.
Absurd: You Ti dominants sure say things I don't really know where to put.
labtard: fml
Absurd: Hah.
These may both well be true, though there are still lots of other people in my circles who don't care much about boundaries, and who almost all happen to be Fe/Ti.
She is, actually. And it happens to be that the person that most disturbs me with this sort of behaviour outside of my family is also so/sx (and ti/fe, for that matter). Interesting. I didn't even think of the stackings, but maybe there's something to it. I can think of a few people that are fi/te & so/sx, but I don't find them intrusive at all. Maybe it's the combination of Fe and so/sx itself that annoys me, or I'm just better at communicating my expectations to Fi/Te folks so with them the problem gets fixed.
Yeah, that's what I thought would be (at least a part of) the problem. Any suggestions on how to get better at it?
There are probably more productive ways than that, don't you think?
Who said I haven't been definite? The general rule in this house is that people buy their own food, the fridge is collective, and other's stuff is not to be touched unless you get a permission. Very simple. I've also asked my mom never to drink my drinks even with the intention to buy them back later before asking me first, because alcohol is not sold here after 9pm and I might be (and usually am) saving it for the night.