My EXE daughter what type is she?

[redbaron]

I've gone back and forth between ESE and EIE for her and I can't decide.

She's a very good writer, excellent student. One of those kids who's always in the 99th percentile of everything, if not off the charts. I've never helped her with homework, not a day in her life. She's not that great in sports although she does well with swimming. She looks just like me (like I did when I was her age). She's musical and can act but not as good as her IEI sister (who is very obviously Fe creative). She's easy going BUT she occasionally lashes out at her brother and slices him meanly with her words. this is rare, but does happen when he gets on her nerves.

She's quiet. Quieter than her sister in classes. They've had the same teachers (they're twins) and when the teachers compare them, this one holds back. So in fact although I do consider her EXE, she's quiet in public. The IEI is opposite, she's quieter at home and comes out of her shell in certain situations.

ANYway, this EXE is good with directions, she pays attention. Actually she pays attention to everything and I joke that I never want her to move out of the house because she keeps me organized. She knows our schedule like the back of her hand without needing to write anything down. She has a nearly photographic memory. She's very chatty at home. I could buy either type for her.

On the one hand, she seems beta. She gets along well with her sister, and their SLE friend. As a matter of fact, sometimes she seems to appreciate the SLE more than her sister. Neither daughter is afraid of dark subjects like death or intensity. Although the IEI gets emotional and things MOVE her, whereas the EXE has a VERY steady emotionalism. She's extremely even-keeled. I like that about her. I feel like no matter what happens, she can handle anything that comes her way. Truth is, I'm very proud of this girl. But it's not because I did much. I just love her, and she is who she is. But I kind of look at her in awe. And when people say that she reminds them of me, I take it as a huge compliment. But I know that she's so much better than me. (I was horribly gawky and self-conscious at her age)

Anyway, does she sound ESE or EIE? I showed Maritsa photos once and she said she VIs EIE. I can see that. But she's just so sensing too. I could see her being a food critic or write for a magazine about cooking and/or travel. She definitely feels "lighter" emotionally than the IEI, in some ways. Like she lives more on the surface.

She's up at the break of dawn, every single day of her life, from the time she was a newborn. She read Lord of the Rings when she was 9 or 10. She jumped off a cliff into the water four times when neither her brother or sister would do it (and they were both trying to talk her out of it). haha

She's one of the best things that ever happened to me. Oh the others too. How could I possibly say one over the other. But... there's just something about her.

[Beautiful sky]

Functions develop at certain ages; she could be more sensing now and then settle into Intuition later.

[Hays]

Would your daughter mind you posting some photos here of her for V.I.?

[GuavaDrunk]

This is quite the love letter. /unhelpful

[Creepy-bg]

the thread title kinda makes it sound like you disowned her. My EXE daughter...

[DirectorAbbie]

Have you considered an extroverted logical type? Maybe SLE?

[Beautiful sky]

What are the relations like with her? What sort of things do you guys feel like you run into conflict/problems with?

[Jenna]

She's easy going BUT she occasionally lashes out at her brother and slices him meanly with her words. this is rare, but does happen when he gets on her nerves.

I think overall ESE's are more likely to lash out than EIE's, due to their Se demonstrative. However, you also said "slices him meanly with words" and that seems more EIE. ESEs just kinda blow up, and they are more confrontational. But EIEs (and IEIs) have a more quiet, sneaky viciousness.

She's quiet. Quieter than her sister in classes. They've had the same teachers (they're twins) and when the teachers compare them, this one holds back. So in fact although I do consider her EXE, she's quiet in public. The IEI is opposite, she's quieter at home and comes out of her shell in certain situations.

Yeah, my mom is EIE-Ni and was really quiet until she was about 20, when she just decided she wouldn't be anymore.
I also work with 2 EIE-Fe's, they are both excellent with customers. One has always been really vivacious and extraverted, but the other was really shy until a few years ago when she asked the first for advice on opening up and being more talkative with customers. Though the second one does have a really strange past (like, grew up on a farm with 6 houses and a church, isolated from the world, and doesn't know who Elvis is)

ANYway, this EXE is good with directions, she pays attention. Actually she pays attention to everything and I joke that I never want her to move out of the house because she keeps me organized. She knows our schedule like the back of her hand without needing to write anything down. She has a nearly photographic memory. She's very chatty at home. I could buy either type for her.

This is kinda ambiguous, really could go either way, mostly just seems like an EJ, especially Fe base.

On the one hand, she seems beta. She gets along well with her sister, and their SLE friend. As a matter of fact, sometimes she seems to appreciate the SLE more than her sister. Neither daughter is afraid of dark subjects like death or intensity. Although the IEI gets emotional and things MOVE her, whereas the EXE has a VERY steady emotionalism. She's extremely even-keeled. I like that about her. I feel like no matter what happens, she can handle anything that comes her way.

This part especially screams EIE. ESEs like when things are light and cheery, and avoid deep subjects.
Going back to talking about my work.. My boss is ESE, and another coworker is SEI. One time the three of us had lunch in the break room, and there was tons of Fe, all over the place. After a while, the SEI had to go back to work, and it was just the two of us. I guess at the time I didn't think about socionics types, and I started talking about dream meanings. She just ...shut down. I then remembered socionics and kind of backed out of that subject. Now when I have to interact with her, I either sort of take on the SEI coworker's humor style, or I act sort of innocent and childlike (I think her daughter is also IEI).
In comparison, the used-to-be-shy EIE and I frequently talk about dreams, psychology, culture, etc. and she has never had a negative reaction to it.

Also IME, both Fe bases seem good at handling whatever curve balls life throws at them. And even if they can't, they won't let it show.

Anyway, does she sound ESE or EIE?

You can probably tell by now, but I say EIE (though pictures for VI would certainly help)

But she's just so sensing too. I could see her being a food critic or write for a magazine about cooking and/or travel. She definitely feels "lighter" emotionally than the IEI, in some ways. Like she lives more on the surface.

It's also been my experience that IEIs are just.. One of the more intense types. EIEs are definitely lighter and live more on the surface than IEIs (I mean, Ni base descriptions sound like the opposite of "living on the surface" lol..)

Idk, I think a lot, a LOT of people here have wrong ideas about Se and Si. And it's really bad with the XIE Si PoLR, Se HA descriptions. Both EIEs I work with could also probably do those things really well.




And it doesn't really relate to her type, but it put a smile on my face to read your description of her. Very sweet. She sounds like she will do very well when she gets older (although she obviously is doing well now lol)

[redbaron]

What are the relations like with her? What sort of things do you guys feel like you run into conflict/problems with?

We have almost zero problems. I never conflict with this one. The only issue I sometimes run into with her, is fighting with her brother. And usually whatever she says to him is exactly what I would say in her shoes. LOL And he usually deserves what she dishes out. But still.

The things that come out of her mouth are often the very things that I was about to say. And she's told me that sometimes when I say things, she was thinking it too.

I have considered her being logical. But I don't think she is. I remember when she was a baby she had this really intelligent look on her face all the time. Her sister (the IEI) would literally LIGHT UP like a light bulb when I or her dad would walk by. Smiles and giggles, etc. But this one always seemed like she was thinking. She knew her nose, mouth, eyes, head, by the time she was 9 months old (I could ask her to point to them and she could do it). I could give her commands like "go get your shiny shoes!" when she was about a year old and she'd go into her bedroom and bring whatever I had asked. (like a retriever, lol) Here's an example that might illustrate IEI vs. EIE (if that's her type):

I was in the hospital after having had my son. The girls were 22 months old. My parents brought them into my room to meet their new baby brother. The IEI came to the bed wanting to hold the baby. The EXE immediately circumnavigated the room, went to all the windows to look out, wanted to explore, curious about everything else, didn't come over to the baby until I asked her to, and even then didn't seem super interested (a foreshadowing of the way all of their relationships have played out even to this day, haha). Introvert=center of the room, extravert= going to the perimeters, looking out? I dunno. Maybe coincidental.

[Beautiful sky]

We have almost zero problems. I never conflict with this one. The only issue I sometimes run into with her, is fighting with her brother. And usually whatever she says to him is exactly what I would say in her shoes. LOL And he usually deserves what she dishes out. But still.

The things that come out of her mouth are often the very things that I was about to say. And she's told me that sometimes when I say things, she was thinking it too.

I have considered her being logical. But I don't think she is. I remember when she was a baby she had this really intelligent look on her face all the time. Her sister (the IEI) would literally LIGHT UP like a light bulb when I or her dad would walk by. Smiles and giggles, etc. But this one always seemed like she was thinking. She knew her nose, mouth, eyes, head, by the time she was 9 months old (I could ask her to point to them and she could do it). I could give her commands like "go get your shiny shoes!" when she was about a year old and she'd go into her bedroom and bring whatever I had asked. (like a retriever, lol) Here's an example that might illustrate IEI vs. EIE (if that's her type):

I was in the hospital after having had my son. The girls were 22 months old. My parents brought them into my room to meet their new baby brother. The IEI came to the bed wanting to hold the baby. The EXE immediately circumnavigated the room, went to all the windows to look out, wanted to explore, curious about everything else, didn't come over to the baby until I asked her to, and even then didn't seem super interested (a foreshadowing of the way all of their relationships have played out even to this day, haha). Introvert=center of the room, extravert= going to the perimeters, looking out? I dunno. Maybe coincidental.

I smell conflict relations between her and her brother.

[redbaron]

I smell conflict relations between her and her brother.

yeah, could be. I've been thinking he's SLI. But on the other hand, who knows. He and the IEI get along pretty well. She is VERY kind to him, and understanding. But IEI gets along with everyone, right? lol

[Absurd]

Hmm, interesting.

[redbaron]

I was thinking this too - how dead set are you on the Fe-leading? It sounds like you admire her in an almost asymmetrical way. From the description and your attitude towards her I could perhaps see LIE/SLE/ILE.

I supervise my ESE mother and she seems to think I'm some sort of super pragmatic genius when I feel anything but She thinks I'm completely sorted in life, I'm somehow crazy determined and can do anything I set my mind to, "like your (LII) father", while she seems to see my SEI sister as underachieving, lazy and "lost", even though she has much better career prospects and is doing really well...

yeah I don't supervise this girl. She supervises me. No, not really. But she's really really smart, esp for her age (like you, Octo! ) and I do admire her. Whereas with the IEI, I'm proud of her (and she's smart too! they have identical grades) but I see her faults and recognize them as being my faults. I don't see her as SLE though. ILE? I don't know. No, I don't see the Ne in her. She's not like my IEE mother who's always tossing out ideas. I don't think she's Se leading or Se-seeking either. not in the same way that my IEI daughter and I are.

[DirectorAbbie]

LXE?

[redbaron]

LXE?

I don't think so because we get along SO super well and we think very much alike. Never ANY misunderstandings with her.

[redbaron]

she's the one in the middle. the boy is SLI (I think) and the girl on the right is IEI. This is her typical smile. She always smiles the same way in photos (the middle one). I'll try to find one where she's not in "the pose".

three.jpg

[redbaron]

this is actually more typical of the two of them. The IEI in the foreground making weird faces and the other one sort of in the background, tolerating it with a good sense of humor. (sorry it's overexposed. I post-processed it that way on purpose and then seem to have lost the original file)

girlshighkey.jpg

[Beautiful sky]

she's the one in the middle. the boy is SLI (I think) and the girl on the right is IEI. This is her typical smile. She always smiles the same way in photos (the middle one). I'll try to find one where she's not in "the pose".

Oh the child in the middle; she's not an Extravert The other child is the one I typed EIE;

[redbaron]

Oh the child in the middle; she's not an Extravert The other child is the one I typed EIE;

Okay. So, given my description, what do you guess for the type of the girl in the middle?

[The Ineffable]

What about ESI? Ths thought occured to me when I was reading the descriptions, then when I saw her picture she reminded me of an ex schoolmate who I think is ESI.

[Beautiful sky]

Okay. So, given my description, what do you guess for the type of the girl in the middle?

If she's an introverted Feeler, INFj or ENFj. I really don't think your older child is an N type; your younger daughter, the one on the right is definitely an EIE.

Does this daughter get along with your son, who I type ISTp? And, already the Fi should be fairly obvious, she will start to instruct others on how to be fair and kind in their relations by "teaching" them in the form of advice giving as to what the proper behaviors in certain situations are; for instance, if people don't share a radio and just hog it all for themselves, she will try to negotiate time and sharing for others as to promote a better relations. This comes from a moral rule/law about being fair to others.

[redbaron]

They're both the same age (twins). oh goodness I don't know. Middle (in the photo) daughter does focus on fairness I guess. But they all do.

Beta daughter on right has MAJOR CLASHES with her LSE Dad. I'll say that much. The other two don't clash with him as much (but some). They will argue until they're blue in the face. He's never gotten as angry with anyone (well, besides me but I'd say overall that he gets MORE angry with her even, than with me).

What else. Son makes his own bed every morning despite me never telling him to do this or even showing him how (I know, bad mom, I just don't care if they make their beds or not). He values order and neatness although the rest of his room can be messy. But he likes his bed "just so". Also, one of his favorite Christmas gifts ever was a very very soft throw blanket I got him. He still sleeps with it.

But the girls? I don't know. I'm not convinced the one on the right is EIE. She has a lazy temperament. She doesn't seem Ej to me. She does have a perfectionist streak. And she's Se-seeking. She wants to be "the best" at everything she does. She gets VERY UPSET when she doesn't, for example, improve her swimming times consistently. Such that she cries (which is inappropriate at her age) at the meets. I had to sit her down and explain that she has to pull it together or quit swimming because crying isn't an acceptable response to a fine but less than perfect swim time.

[Gilly]

What about LIE?

[Korpsy Knievel]

What about focusing on identifiable and actionable aspects of her life instead of this unimportant bullshit.

[redbaron]

What about focusing on identifiable and actionable aspects of her life instead of this unimportant bullshit.

get out if you can't behave yourself.

[redbaron]

What about LIE?

I do think she's ethical. She says a book isn't good unless it makes her cry. She values things based on how they make her feel, emotionally. She keeps talking about how getting her school schedule will make or break her year, depending on who else is in her classes. lol

[Korpsy Knievel]

get out if you can't behave yourself.

Once you've fooled yourself into thinking your child is a certain type the next step will be prescriptive measures designed to shape this individual according to more artificial expectations. Then you'll be worrying about strengthening the child's super-ego without doing so at the expense of her ego functions or turning the kid into a neurotic base-subtype. You'll begin voicing concerns about inter-quadra bullying at PTA meetings and asking teachers to tend to your child's valued functions, and eventually, unless you live in California where subscribing to mystification and bamboozlement is the norm, someone will alert Child Protective Services after becoming convinced that you belong to a cult and are adversely affecting your progeny with nonsense. Let the kid be a kid, not a type.

[redbaron]

redbaron, if you don't mind me saying this...the problem with you describing interrelations is that we don't know that's how she thinks about them.

i had a post, which i deleted, but i said (and still think) she's sth delta/gamma.

i'm sorry to say this, but having seen estp suggested....well, she seems too responsible for that. if i thought estp i would not think 'oh yeah, responsibility' in one sentence. sorry...and enfj seem too antsy or sth ..

I agree, she's not SLE. lol She's not at all antsy either.

[redbaron]

Once you've fooled yourself into thinking your child is a certain type the next step will be prescriptive measures designed to shape this individual according to more artificial expectations. Then you'll be worrying about strengthening the child's super-ego without doing so at the expense of her ego functions or turning the kid into a neurotic base-subtype. You'll begin voicing concerns about inter-quadra bullying at PTA meetings and asking teachers to tend to your child's valued functions, and eventually, unless you live in California where subscribing to mystification and bamboozlement is the norm, someone will alert Child Protective Services after becoming convinced that you belong to a cult and are adversely affecting your progeny with nonsense. Let the kid be a kid, not a type.

wtf lol

[blackburry]

Obviously redbaron isn't trying to force her kid into being ANY type or ANY type of person. She is letting her kid be a kid... the above statement is rediculous.
now if it were marista's kid on the other hand..............
BUT IT's not.

[Korpsy Knievel]

wtf lol

Hyperbole to make an overblown point, of course.

What do you hope to accomplish by labeling your child this type or that? Whether you leave the supposed type unspoken or not it will certainly have some effect on how you view and treat the kid. It's a matter of conjecture to say how significant this shift will be, but since this opinion (it would be an embarrassment to call it knowledge) will remain an active element in your cogitations once formed, it will operate to alter your perceptions and thoughts concerning your child. Since we have privileged access to no one's thoughts but our own I think socionics ought to remain a tool of self-discovery, otherwise it too frequently sets people up for unrealistic expectations of one another to act and interact according to a fixed and schematized script rather than the subtle and unquantifiable qualities of living beings participating in the actual world.

blackburry: Your post makes it too easy to deride both message and messenger. Cheers.

[golden]

I dunno, I made a thread on the forum some time ago for typing my son, who is now nine, and I think it was helpful. Pinning a possible type on him didn't change how I view him, in the sense that the actual relationship and parent-child bond I have with him are stronger than a perception or expectation of a type, and when I am with him I am really absorbed in just enjoying his company and in parenting him, and that hasn't changed (and won't). Getting a few solid suggestions re his type instead made me think a bit more objectively about him.

Most helpful was to note that some of his weaknesses--which I already was well aware of--could be seen as polr-related. That was/is reassuring, because we live in a culture where Mom is to blame for much that isn't absolutelyfuckingperfect, and my son's father in particular has taken to (1) branding the boy as defective and (2) blaming me for it (ludicrous on both counts), and socionics stuff is just another way of saying, um, we all have our strengths and weaknesses and have to work with them and maybe sometimes no one is to blame.

So I think considering my child's possible socionics type made me somewhat less neurotic about him and about my parenting and gave me one small tool (among many other, more important ones) to withstand the nastiness and brainwashing bullshit.

[Beautiful sky]

On the one hand, she seems beta. She gets along well with her sister, and their SLE friend. As a matter of fact, sometimes she seems to appreciate the SLE more than her sister. Neither daughter is afraid of dark subjects like death or intensity.

Ok, I missed this so yeah not EII for sure.

I was in the hospital after having had my son. The girls were 22 months old. My parents brought them into my room to meet their new baby brother. The IEI came to the bed wanting to hold the baby. The EXE immediately circumnavigated the room, went to all the windows to look out, wanted to explore, curious about everything else, didn't come over to the baby until I asked her to, and even then didn't seem super interested (a foreshadowing of the way all of their relationships have played out even to this day, haha). Introvert=center of the room, extravert= going to the perimeters, looking out? I dunno. Maybe coincidental.

Not necessarily; one can not differentiate the object that will strike the curiosity of either type; if that were true and possible, I would just ask a person "when you walk into a room what do you notice first" and have their type in 15 seconds

[anndelise]

Regarding a parent typing a child:

Before I had delved into the socionics theoretical stuff, I had been dealing with a child who had some obvious difficulties going on with her thinking processes. I was introduced to socionics via a different reason, but as I looked into the theory's basic principles of information metabolism (rather than 'personality'), I felt strongly that something in it might be able to help me understand better what was going on inside her mind...that might give me a clue of how I could help her. Figuring out that SeFi and it's order of elements helped a LOT. Enough to give me a few clues leading towards pinpointing some of the issues she,s been dealing with since birth. It gave me a way of guiding my observations and experiments, to get a clearer picture of what might be working for her, and what,s obviously not. Sort of like a fuzzy window into her mind.

Her problems weren,t related to any socionics type...it turns out to have been related to one (or combo) of medications I had been on around the time of her conception. But I only figured that out through a complex chain of studies and observations...of which socionics played a small part in.

However, we do still have communication issues which socionics helps to explain. Such as conflict with my insessent mentioning of different ideas and ways of looking at something which aggravates her underlying condition...sending her into a mentally chaotic stress shutdown/blowup. So yes, I do work at trying to keep my mouth shut when those ideas pop into my mind.

But I don't think of her as a 'type'. She is my daughter who is her own developing person, and the functions merely help me try to understand what might be underlying some of our conflicts. I sure as hell don,t consider the functions to be prescriptive. And even though I might turn to viewing our interactions via functions, it's actually rare that I do so...as in rare that I look at us through socionics goggles. (as in...maybe once ever 3-4 months?? If even that...except for reminding myself to not overwhelm her with my ideas/thoughts of the moment...but even then the lens isn't socionics...it's the trouble her brain has in processing/linking auditory information.)

Humans categorize things...it comes natural to them. Parents (usually) recognize qualities of their children such as "she's a bookworm", "he's a natural at music creation", "she plays aggressively in sports", "he's kind of on the sensitive side", etc. What do parents gain by describing their children in this way? It's a shorthand way of describing their children to other people...or to themselves. Does it effect how a parent raises/views their kids? Quite likely...in that they might buy more books for the bookworm, software/hardware for the computer geek, sign the kid up for sports teams, be more careful of how they phrase things around the sensitive child...etc. Parents may even do something drastic like try to encourage the children to expand their experiences. "'Aww, mom...do I have to??'..... 'At least try it a couple of times, if you don't like it, then we'll Try something else.'" . . . . Such evil parents!!!

[blackburry]

Hyperbole to make an overblown point, of course.

What do you hope to accomplish by labeling your child this type or that? Whether you leave the supposed type unspoken or not it will certainly have some effect on how you view and treat the kid. It's a matter of conjecture to say how significant this shift will be, but since this opinion (it would be an embarrassment to call it knowledge) will remain an active element in your cogitations once formed, it will operate to alter your perceptions and thoughts concerning your child. Since we have privileged access to no one's thoughts but our own I think socionics ought to remain a tool of self-discovery, otherwise it too frequently sets people up for unrealistic expectations of one another to act and interact according to a fixed and schematized script rather than the subtle and unquantifiable qualities of living beings participating in the actual world.

blackburry: Your post makes it too easy to deride both message and messenger. Cheers.

wow you are incredibly annoying.
Confimed post's ties it all together in why some people think it's absolutely fine and neutral to do.

[FDG]

LIE could make sense

[Aquagraph]

@k0rpsy
First of all, I don't know how seriously will Redbaron be about socionics if and when her daughter's type is confirmed.

If she is serious about primarily viewing people through their type, like an unleashed maritsa, that is the flaw of her action.

If, however, she, like the most of this forum, understands the immense flaws of socionics when it comes to real interaction between people, she is going to do just fine and probably enjoys being interested in her children in a variety of ways, where most of them don't have anything to do with socionics.

What are you trying to do here, k0rpsy?

[ashlesha]

a little reality check never hurt anyone.

[redbaron]

Hyperbole to make an overblown point, of course.

What do you hope to accomplish by labeling your child this type or that? Whether you leave the supposed type unspoken or not it will certainly have some effect on how you view and treat the kid. It's a matter of conjecture to say how significant this shift will be, but since this opinion (it would be an embarrassment to call it knowledge) will remain an active element in your cogitations once formed, it will operate to alter your perceptions and thoughts concerning your child. Since we have privileged access to no one's thoughts but our own I think socionics ought to remain a tool of self-discovery, otherwise it too frequently sets people up for unrealistic expectations of one another to act and interact according to a fixed and schematized script rather than the subtle and unquantifiable qualities of living beings participating in the actual world.

blackburry: Your post makes it too easy to deride both message and messenger. Cheers.

There is no type my children could be that would cause me to love them less. This post of yours is basically saying "if you're a parent, you shouldn't even know about socionics because it will inevitably cause you to treat your children differently, even if it's unconscious." Kinda silly.

[redbaron]

I'm so proud of them, I honestly don't care what type they are. I just find people interesting, especially these little people I live with!

And after all of this, I still don't know what type she is. It's more of a mystery than before. I'll probably think about it again in like a year. lol I really don't spend a lot of time applying socionics to my children or really to anyone else. But we're on this forum (ostensibly) because we think it's interesting and possibly worthwhile, in the end.