Any thoughts on this pairing?
IEE-ESE Benefit Relations (ESFj and ENFp)
Any thoughts on this pairing?
Mymycutiepie- ESFJ
j/king
Relationships of benefit are not too bad in my opinion. I have a great friend whos an ENTj. I heard somewhere that benefit relationships are one of the most common in marriage (but with the state of marriages at the moment that wouldn't be saying much)
ESFj is the one type i cannot Identify. I have the other 15 types downpat. I have an itching feeling i know some of them though
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
If speaking from my experience ENFp-ESFj relations are one of the worst ones.
me
That's interesting. I am currently friends with one, and we get along wonderfully. Of course we recognize our differences. We are both in college, and while I am more studious, he is more about the fun part of college, and classes are usually the least of his worries, unless he is worried about his grade. However, we both enjoy each others company, talk very easily, and actually do have more in common than we realized originally. A compilcated situation arose, and before it was really settled, he started dating another girl. So, it basically closes any attempt at a relationship with him for me. It still didn't keep me from wondering about anybody else's experiences though. Thanks for your replies.
Mymycutiepie- ESFJ
I was going to predict that he would think you were lazy. But the relationship is over so I guess it doesn't matter.
(edit: I now see your signature. I thought you were the ENFp. So I will correct myself - I would predict that *you* would find *him* lazy.)
My mother-in-law is ESFj. I really like her. She thinks I should get a job.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I personally see relationships of benefit as pretty decent relations, well at least when im the benefactor. I know quite a few ENTj's (on of my closest friends is one). I must admit ive only typed a couple of ESE girls and never actively typed an ESE Guy. I will be totally honest, the being a beneficiary kind of scares me. An ESE girl invited me to play indoor soccer yesterday which i did. I cant quite explain it but dont like the idea of admiring someone or being in the weaker position. Putting someone up on a pedestal. If i didn't know about soconics though i think i would probablly fall right into the beneficiary trap.
ENTj's actually do tend to see something in me they respect. Which makes me feel good because from my standpoint they are easily one of the coolest types in the whole socion, liked by everyone, intelligent, funny etc. It can however be a little disconcerting having someone say how much they respect you when you dont actually know why.
Anyway sorry i cant say much about my Benefactor (its actually by far my most inexperienced relation), but i seem to like them so no worries! What you described sounds quite typical for a benefit relation, although you are right in assuming ENFp's will eventually get bored. She will probablly periodically want to see you every now and then though
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
I'm confused, so w/ the benefactor, who puts who on the pedestal? Like, for an ENTJ, does the ENFP put them on the pedestal? Or vice versa? I've read the description but can't seem to get it straight.
If anyone can explain this to me, that'd be awesome, thanks
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
The beneficiary (ENTj) puts the Benefactor (ENFp) on the pedestal. I dont like talking about it though because its not quite accurate. My friend certianlly doesn't worship the ground i walk on, considering he is far better at most activities, better looking and smarter than meOriginally Posted by jewels
I'm confused, so w/ the benefactor, who puts who on the pedestal? Like, for an ENTJ, does the ENFP put them on the pedestal? Or vice versa? I've read the description but can't seem to get it straight.
If anyone can explain this to me, that'd be awesome, thanks. Its quite an even relation, but if i put myself down he will actually be the first person to say bullshit "you dont realise your potential". Which is odd because i thought ENFp's were supposed to see this in people lol. He calls me Suave aswell etc, which is really awesome because ive never had anyone else say that or perhaps even think that about me before lol. I read in the description once that the Benefactor does not always listen to the beneficiary. An example perhaps was the other night. I played about 7 games of pool with my ENTj friend. I won the first game, he won the next 6. He is an awesome player who will sometimes sink like every ball except the black on his first go. Anyway i said "man how do you do it?" or something like that and he said "you need to just know its easy, dont think so much and shoot". I really dismissed this as impossible but when i went home and reananaysed it i kind of see what hes saying. (I have to be careful not to take the type descriptions so literally though).
The beneficiary see's something they like in you. They see your creative function manifested so for me thats. So they see me producing Fi and they like it quite a bit. Same for me when i see the
in others. (This is my simple interpretation anyway). The only other person with creative Fi is the SEE, and that is the ENTj's activity partner.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
I personally see relationships of benefit as pretty decent relations, well at least when im the benefactor. I know quite a few ENTj's (on of my closest friends is one). I must admit ive only typed a couple of ESE girls and never actively typed an ESE Guy. I will be totally honest, the being a beneficiary kind of scares me. An ESE girl invited me to play indoor soccer yesterday which i did. I cant quite explain it but dont like the idea of admiring someone or being in the weaker position. Putting someone up on a pedestal. If i didn't know about soconics though i think i would probablly fall right into the beneficiary trap.
ENTj's actually do tend to see something in me they respect. Which makes me feel good because from my standpoint they are easily one of the coolest types in the whole socion, liked by everyone, intelligent, funny etc. It can however be a little disconcerting having someone say how much they respect you when you dont actually know why.
Anyway sorry i cant say much about my Benefactor (its actually by far my most inexperienced relation), but i seem to like them so no worries! What you described sounds quite typical for a benefit relation, although you are right in assuming ENFp's will eventually get bored. She will probablly periodically want to see you every now and then though
Thank you for this - reading your experience with benefit helps me understand it better. And I am completely with you on disliking being a beneficiary; it's a strange feeling. Being benefactor can also be really uncomfortable, but for different reasons....
I'm still unclear on exactly why relations of benefit are the way they are. In my case, I think ENFPs are really interesting, and the ones I know are truly amazing people. That's probably why it confounds me that they find me so interesting; I'm busy being fascinated (and occasionally annoyed, ha) by them. Wierd, wild stuff.
Mom is my benefactor--as were my first few gfs.
I love my Mom SO MUCH--more than anything... Underlying that love, however, is a relation of benefit. E.g. if I'm trying to give her advice, it's as though it's as though she does not hear me at all, which can be frustrating... Also, sometimes, she'll talk seemingly just for the sake of talking, which can result in me simply zoning out... She will criticize me for my absent-mindedness, my lack of practicality (at least her conception of practicality,) and my messiness.
That said, I love! And in my experience, relations of Benefit are one of the best.
I dont really mind being a beneficary (like the every day experience of it with ESE's), its more the thought of it that puts me off a little
I feel exactly the same with ENTj's, it is quite a nice thing when they like you. I think ive gained social status just because ENTj's like me i think. The description says that your Benefactor appears to be able to do things that you find complicated. I definately relate to that when ive seen ESE's. Like the girl i talked about before is a social machine. She ran for uni president or whatever and she got about 3 times the votes of the closest candidate. If i see her she will be saying hi to everyone, walking up to groups effortlessly. She also doesn't seem lost in her own mind (sensing i suppose), she can just talk up a storm with anyone which i admire a lot.
Interesting stories Juju. I dont think i would mind an ESE mother. Yeah the not listening to your beneficiary is an interesting one. Songofsappho you seem like a nice person, try to listen if the ENFp gives advice hehehe. I wonder if the advice is normally relevant from your benificiary though, because normally my advice is solid
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Suffocating. =/
I really like ESFjs. They are more "social" than I am, better at hosting a party and organizing -- all things that I can do, but don't always enjoy figuring the details out.
They can sometimes be judgemental, but it really depends on the ESFj. I have an aunt who isn't that way at all. I have a friend who judges everyone -- even when she makes similar mistakes, she'll really scold people. She's given us a hard time for being late, when she's late just as often, etc.
I like that they are fun, and keep everything going along. They also like to research restaurants, events, ect., and enjoy the details of those things, where as I will do it, but don't really enjoy it.
As for the male ESFjs, it really depends on the person. Usually I'm not overly into dating them. I think mostly it's the Fe/Fi difference, and sometimes it can feel they are smothering me a bit with the caregiver thing. But that may have just been those individuals...I dunno.
I did have a guy ESFj hit on me once at a casino. I actually liked his approach, even though I didn't end up going out w/ him. I was looking for my friends, who'd gone to play the tables. I couldn't find them, so sat down at a machine and started texting. So he comes over and sits down and is like "Hi, so I know exactly what's going on here. You lost your friends...I saw you all before and your friends are also hot. And now you're texting them. Am I right?"
I found it sorta funny. We wandered around for a while, and he had to go to the restroom so he put a hundred into a machine to make sure i wouldn't leave while he was gone, lol. But in the end he sorta tried too hard to impress my friends by doing some little dance or something. Nice guy though, but not really a match.
So those are some random rambling impressions of ESFjs.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
I do feel the dynamics of the Benefit relation when i am dealing with ESFjs. I admire them often. They are confident and sharp people, who typically seem calm and controlled. They are also good with people. In a way they are what some part of me wishes i was (hard working, confident, able to stand up for themselves, active and good with people).
Still, when i take a step back from it all i dont feel inferior or anything. I realise that i am equally good at dealing with people, just in a different way. While they appear typically more capable than me with the day to day life matters, i do see where my intuition is valuable. An ESFj disarmed me quite well by explaining how hard she found psychology statistics and failed it a couple of times. I was suprised because i find it really easy. I think its asubject?
All in all they are lovely people and i enjoy being around them and watching them. They make me want to work hard and better myself. I honestly think that the two managers and the coordinator at work are all ESFj's lol. They are probablly the best managers i have ever had. Relaxed about the job, directive yet polite and understanding. Still, i know that if i screw up they will not hestiate to let me know so i try not to. I do find it slightly hard to get really close to them though, the relation is warm but they seem so independent i cant seem to tap into that inner part of them yet. With that being said im only really dealing with ESFj's on a regular basis for the first time so time will tell.
Hows that Thunderhorse?
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Hey guys!
Well I doubt I'm ENFp, but on the off-chance that I might be, I'll still go ahead and answer the question since my relationship with some ESFj's in my life has been a topic of thought for me lately. For some reason, I seem to have been surrounded by them my whole life, mostly not by choice since they've been family. There's something about our interactions that has always driven me pretty insane, especially two ESEs in particular, who I've known for a very long time. Where to begin? I find them overbearing, extremely judgemental, naggy, smothering, too demanding of my attention. We've been completely incapable of connecting in any real way. I often find myself tuning them out, only to feel bad about it later. What's worse, sometimes I can act outright rude to them, which in retrospect I realize I just take them for granted since no matter what I do or how I act, they'll always be there. I feel zero need to impress them. I just don't get how they go about in doing things. It seems to me like they overfocus and even obsess over what to me are unimportant details. It always leaves me feeling so frustrated, especially because they try to push things on me and meddle. I wish they could just let me be, but it's like they're incapable of doing so. It's always felt like a sort of sick dependence; like the more negatively I react to their "input", the more they can't just let me go. They seek me out all the time and bombard me with what in my opinion are totally ridiculously mundane questions until I explode with frustration, like "why the hell do you need to know what I ate and at what time and whether I'm wearing a jacket and did I call so and so". Ugh. I really do try to be patient, but there's something about ESEs that just makes me snap at them. I mean, I know they mean well and all that and I always feel guilty afterwards, but I just can't stand it. So, the end result is usually a hurt ESE walking away, muttering about how I'm always in a bad mood and can't even stand to be spoken to, how they'll just keep their mouths shut from now on since their presence is so unbearable to me. It genuinely makes me sad that they always seem a little anxious and on edge around me since that is never my intention. I can tell that often times they find themselves watching every word they say to me out of fear of aggravating me, so they'll start off by phrasing things as "I'm not trying to tell you what to do or anything...".TBH, I sometimes find myself fighting the impulse to tell them "I can't believe you are this stupid." It's horrible! Makes me feel like a horrible person. I think I look down on them because they just seem so superficial. They're sweet people though, at least the ones I know.
God, I suck.
I have been thinking this relationship ever since I have gotten to learn Socionics. I am their comparable, and I feel the "comparable relation may see each other as selfish" and that "if both individuals are on the same level then they can co-relate peacefully" is true. The problem is, although they are very friendly with me in the beginning, I find them so controlling once they deem that you are inferior to them. Generally I get along well with the Enneagram 2 and 3 ESFj, but the ESFj 6 is the biggest problem to me. their nervousness cope with counter phobic energy and the need to control the environment is what bothers me. I can do a billion things for them but if you do one thing wrong they can leash out on you depending on their mood, which in turn makes me feel so betrayed. like Sirena said, they ask a billion of non-sense questions, if they think they can control you, they will be merciless. Without any sense of inner principal to go by, but willing to adapt a principal of their current environment which often is just the popular culture or the hip standard.Hey guys!
Well I doubt I'm ENFp, but on the off-chance that I might be, I'll still go ahead and answer the question since my relationship with some ESFj's in my life has been a topic of thought for me lately. For some reason, I seem to have been surrounded by them my whole life, mostly not by choice since they've been family. There's something about our interactions that has always driven me pretty insane, especially two ESEs in particular, who I've known for a very long time. Where to begin? I find them overbearing, extremely judgemental, naggy, smothering, too demanding of my attention. We've been completely incapable of connecting in any real way. I often find myself tuning them out, only to feel bad about it later. What's worse, sometimes I can act outright rude to them, which in retrospect I realize I just take them for granted since no matter what I do or how I act, they'll always be there. I feel zero need to impress them. I just don't get how they go about in doing things. It seems to me like they overfocus and even obsess over what to me are unimportant details. It always leaves me feeling so frustrated, especially because they try to push things on me and meddle. I wish they could just let me be, but it's like they're incapable of doing so. It's always felt like a sort of sick dependence; like the more negatively I react to their "input", the more they can't just let me go. They seek me out all the time and bombard me with what in my opinion are totally ridiculously mundane questions until I explode with frustration, like "why the hell do you need to know what I ate and at what time and whether I'm wearing a jacket and did I call so and so". Ugh. I really do try to be patient, but there's something about ESEs that just makes me snap at them. I mean, I know they mean well and all that and I always feel guilty afterwards, but I just can't stand it. So, the end result is usually a hurt ESE walking away, muttering about how I'm always in a bad mood and can't even stand to be spoken to, how they'll just keep their mouths shut from now on since their presence is so unbearable to me. It genuinely makes me sad that they always seem a little anxious and on edge around me since that is never my intention. I can tell that often times they find themselves watching every word they say to me out of fear of aggravating me, so they'll start off by phrasing things as "I'm not trying to tell you what to do or anything...".
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
Ummm it seems like a lot of people have bad opinions on the ESE's.
Sometimes I wonder if people who come here to learn Socionics even want to understand the different types of individuals, how to get along with them and even appreciate them on a deeper level. Sometimes it seems we're all here to only find a self-confirmation of some kind: to somehow justify why we don't like a particular person and why little to no effort should be put in trying to get along with those who value different things.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
IEE-ESE Benefit Relations (ESFj and ENFp)
do you think that an IEE (female) and ESE (male) could work out, in regards to a romantic relationship?
i was hanging out with this guy over the summer and i never get super attached, but with him, i want to get involved. the problem is, he's going to school on the other side of the US and has told me he really wants to stay in touch/see me when he returns for break.
but i'm cautious, because i know how quickly i can "stray" and get all negative and think things will never work out (on several different levels).
what do you think? have any of you ever been in a relationship with an ESE that worked out?
"this shaking keeps me steady. i should know. what falls always is always. and is near. i wake to sleep and taking my waking slow. i learn by going where i have to go." -t. roethke
ENFp!!!
don't do it.
I've heard of a lot of benefit relations among romantic partners. My mom and step dad are ILE(mom)/LSE(step dad).
It isn't the best relationship, but I'd say it's pretty enjoyable. I myself have a good friendship with my benefactor IEE.
It should be stressed however that the benefactor is in a more favorable position and the beneficiary is inclined to get more involved in the benefactor than the the other way around.
I greatly discourage long distance relationships, especially for two EXFx types. Especially when you're in college/etc. I mean, if you want a casual relationship, sure. But don't expect anything with much investment or exclusivity.
guess i should be a little more specific...
i don't anticipate being in a relationship now...but he graduates in dec. and will be living here.
so more along the lines of something happening when he gets back, should i keep the possibility of a relationship open for when he does come home?
deffo not sitting around pining for him for the next 3 months expecting him to stay faithful.
"this shaking keeps me steady. i should know. what falls always is always. and is near. i wake to sleep and taking my waking slow. i learn by going where i have to go." -t. roethke
ENFp!!!
if he's someone you'd consider marrying, sure. Otherwise, its not that big of a deal, is it.
not gonna work out cause all IEEs are MINE!!!!!! ...the female ones at least
ISTP - SERIOUSLY, i dont give a ****
sorry it took me forever...
i agree. sometimes i need people to tell me, so i can finally accept them...even though i already KNOW.
it's easy to convince yourself of the outcome you want, instead of the reality.
thanks.
"this shaking keeps me steady. i should know. what falls always is always. and is near. i wake to sleep and taking my waking slow. i learn by going where i have to go." -t. roethke
ENFp!!!
My husband's best friend is IEE and he (the IEE) is married to an ESE. they've been married for about 10 years I think. It's not perfect though. Far from completely smooth. But they have three kids and are pretty happy. I think.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Beneficiary is good for friendship but not relationship. Better let the search go on.
Simply maintain friendship until he comes back, see how things go then? Long-distance relationships really, really aren't worth the pain.
Long-distance relationships really only work if you're Identicals and still I wouldn't really call it a relationship..... I think it's a safety net for people that realize they're not really ready/stable enough to have a relationship with anyone just yet.
I had a long distance relationship with my identical once. But we had a foundation of many months being together nearby first. We wrote each other very faithfully (this was before the days of cell phones or computers. man am I dating myself) and I still have his letters. So romantic.
IEI-Fe 4w3
My answer to everything is "just be friends" and don't think about anything else. Of course I don't follow my own advice very well, but I'm sure everyone else can do so easily, which is why I like to give my advice that I don't follow because somewhere there's another me out there who does follow it. /narcissistic post
somewhere it says that relations of benefit are the second most common configuration for marriage. for myself, i've found the best expression of these relations are at work. you see benefit partners supporting each other all the time, even in the face of obvious faults and flaws in each partner. it's like there's a blind spot though that your partner in benefit can't see your weakness all that well or something.
infpman was married to his benefactor for 30 years, but as he says, "it ran it's course."
having said all that dudeins, i think it's a relationship worth pursuing. why not.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Benefit relationship ESFj and ENFp (ESE-IEE)
So I have been considering a relationship with an IEE best-pal of mine lately. . . we're extremely close friends and I love him very dearly (as a sister). Which brings me to the key problem. . .
Although I feel a strong connection with him emotionally in a sisterly way and I would never want to hurt him, as well as a strong physical attraction to him, (which I discovered last year when all of a sudden I realized that he's grown up. . . (yeah, there's a year or so difference in age.)) I'm not really "attracted" to him romantically.
Logically, we would make a great couple - we're very compatible. . . physically he's attractive. Emotionally - I care for him a great deal. . . but something keeps holding me back.
I know, that once upon a time that he had feelings for me, and I told him I wasn't interested. . . and that over the years there have been a few times that he has rekindled those feelings. . . I simply lack "those feelings".
Logically, we're perfect for each other. . . emotionally, I care, but I'm not romantically impassioned by him. . .
I'm wondering, is there any way that I can create that passion within myself? Should I try the relationship out? Does anyone know any IEE-ESE couples. . . how are their relationships?
Genuinely, no.
Absolutely yes.
IME, frustrating beyond belief.
-Extrovert = ...A Dead Extrovert.
Everything in CILi's post is good advice.
I mean, if you know him well, and you're close friends, go for it. Doesn't sound like you'd have problems with him, perhaps? Stay optimistic! You lose nothing by just going for it... ideally. I can understand how lack of interest can be a motivation killer. Just don't get hung up on it--you've clearly expressed many other reasons why you'd want to be in a relationship with him.
Know I'm mistyped?
Why I amnow.
Why I was, once.
DISCLAIMER
The statements expressed in this signature may not necessarily reflect reality.
So you all think that I should try it out? Btw, it would be the right thing to do to tell him that I'm not feeling anything romantically, right? I don't want to lead him on thinking that I feel something when I don't. . .
The daunting thing to me is that all of you say ESE-IEE relationships don't really work out and we would get annoyed with each other over time. . . =/
I don't want to start something if all it's going to do is end. . .
yeah IMO DON'T go for it. it's better to stay the good friends that you already are than to risk losing him completely because you want to try out the romantic arena. i mean, it's not guaranteed that you'll lose him but there's a good chance that if it doesn't work out then the friendship will be done too. having that history might be awkward. another good reason is you don't actually have any sort of attraction to him aside from his looks. you'll find someone else, someone who you also care for and find attractive. AND you get to stay friends with him.
just curious: what did you say to him before, whenever he would mention his feelings for you?
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
