Is introverted intuition (Ni) really so hard to describe?
Every description I've found sounds like it was written by someone who had been fasting in a secluded cave for three days prior to its composition. Since 1/4 of the types have it in their egos, it can't be THAT weird. Can I get a description in normal language of what it feels like to use, and what it looks like in others? I'm caught between Ne and Ni in typing myself, and need something to go on.
It probably just seems weird to you because you don't value it. I think Ne, Si, Ti, and Fe are weird. Oh and if you want language examples, click this. Some people will probably post the Wikisocion page related to the same thing, but that page is a piece of shit.
Brilliant! I saw this page a good while ago, but had totally forgotten it. I appear to identify far more with Ne, as here described. Also, now that you point out that lack of easy understanding might be a symptom of a devalued function, it makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
So Ni is more judging than perceiving.
Well I mean you said Ni is what limits down the options based on what is known to happen, in personality theory that is commonly dubbed as judging. So Ni by this definition is judging, and probably not internal, because its based on what has already happened outside of the self. Internal perception would be more like playing with unrealistic, detached ideas or imagery in the mind and not limiting oneself to a likely conclusion.
The one who expands possibilities is a Ne base or Ne Role. When I present a possibility I like to my Ni mom, the first thing is for her to use her P function to focus on theories that might exist beyond the one I've chosen of the possibilities I find interesting; the premise is that "well, there can't be only one right answer" to and Ni type.Originally Posted by siuntal
Actually, you might be able to choose the best corse of action NOW, if what you're focusing on is Time and the best/advantageous action; this actually helps Se types very much, who by the way, are good at presenting possibilities, with their Ne role, and prefer you to pick the one to do. They have Se and would rather and even can do it all.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-10-2011 at 02:19 PM.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Judging functions by definition in Wikisocion are focused on actions or emotions. This is focus on state - what is possible/not possible. Therefore it falls under definition of perceiving. Reference: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Judging
Ni is fed by Se, that's how what happened "outside of self" is brought into self - but neither function is capable of making an emotional or rational judgement meanwhile.
This is a very good point, and it's one that people tend to overlook about Ni. As a perceiving function, Ni is not implemented solely by itself to create any sort of conclusion (about the future or the past or anything else "time related"). Rather, Ni is a type of raw information that's fed to the rational function in order for any of those conclusions to be made.
Me describing:
"Um, that thing I don't have. Time. Seeing the future. No, not really. Good at the stock market. I think. It's introverted intuition. Want me to get you a description?
lol
this is an easy-to-understand description of Ni as a leading function (from http://socionics.us/works/socion2.shtml)
All processes take place in time; they have their roots in the past and their continuation in the future. Time is the correlation between events that follow each other. This perceptual element provides information about the sequence of events and people's deeds, about their cause and effect relationship, and about participants' attitudes towards this — that is, about people's feelings that these relationships engender.
Such an individual perceives information from without as feelings about the future, past, and present. For example, a sense of hurriedness, calmness, or heatedness, a sense of timeliness or prematureness, a sense of proper or improper life rhythm, a sense of impending danger or safety, anticipation, fear of being late, a sense of seeing the future, anxiety about what lies ahead, and so forth. At any given moment of one's life one has such a sense of time. One cannot live outside of time or be indifferent toward it. Thus, a certain sense of time is an integral part of the individual's psychological state at any given moment. This perceptual element defines a person's ability or inability to forecast and plan for the future, evade all sorts of troubles, avoid taking wrong actions, and learn from past experience.
When this element is in the leading position, the individual possesses innate strategic abilities and is able to choose the most optimal moments for different activities: when to give battle, if necessary, and when to avoid battle, when that would be more appropriate. Interaction in time might be interpreted as the ability to avoid collisions with objects and hence avoid objects' reflection within oneself.
The reason Ni is so hard to describe is that it is the most abstract/internal/etc. of the functions. It is internal dynamics of fields, which requires three abstractions from sense perception: the deduction of internal characteristics from external (observable) phenomenon; the assumption of identity-over-time which allows for dynamicity (a thing can't change if it ceases to be itself as soon as it changes); and then relationships between objects, which is necessarily mental rather than existing in the objects themselves (objects are apparently to the senses; relationships between them are apparent only to the mind.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
Yes, but what do you say that shows your Fe, conditioned by Ni and Si?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Exactly.
Ni can also be seen in relation to Si. Both introverted perceiving functions have to do with the subjective impact of our perceptions. Whereas Si takes in perceptions that are connected in time and space, grasping the subjective impact of the environment as a coherent extension of whoever is using Si, Ni takes in perceptions that are dissociated across time and space, grasping the subjective impact and implicit relationship of phenomena that aren't seen as spatially or temporally linked. This is why Ni is often associated with time, imagery, memory, and so on, even though none of those things are Ni per se.
Isn't Ni just describing the processes in the past? They are N types and because of this, they don't live in the here and now. They are always worried or thinking about those things that were related in the past or the future, but never what's going on now. If they have Te in the second function than it's all about work and things that have to get done that could get worse then; if the second function is Fe than they are concerned about the external emotional emotions..right?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The best way I can describe Ni is sitting back and watching the patterns of rain dripping down a window. If you get really tranced out you start to try to predict where drops will flow and how they will merge with other drops.. the paths they will take. If a new drop falls onto the window you have this thought pattern which predicts how it will flow based on the past patterns. If you were to try to interfere with them dripping down, like shake the window or something, then you become unable to make these kinds of predictions since the world is changing too quickly and you're immersed within it.
To use dominant Ni you have to be completely detached from things. If you are actively exercising your ability to impact the world, then you cannot use dominant Ni. The creative manifestation of it would have a bit less detachment but also the function wont be expressed as purely.
As you can see, Ni is not just about the past / future. Ni makes predictions in and about the present moment. A person with Ni dominant is making small predictions constantly, and revising them constantly. The detachment of Ni come from the need to not interfere with events. Ni is detached from impacting the world. It is not detached from the present moment any more than any other function. Any type can get caught up in their head.
I do think Ni has been described very poorly in the socionics writings. Probably because it's a very psychological function.. but I also think the other functions are poorly described, Ni just comes out as more obvious bullshit. The actual mental process of using the function is often overlooked in favor of its effects or an outside appraisal of it. Ni also has it especially bad because of how Jung first conceived it. Jungs description of it was heavily tainted by his psychoanalytical background.
Last edited by crazedrat; 03-13-2011 at 06:41 PM.
I don't necessarily try to make predictions, but in my mind I am often in someplace else, doing something else, a little bit in the future.
For example, I am using my computer right now, but in my mind, I am taking a shower, because I might be taking a shower 20 minutes from now.
yeah, therefore, you're not in the NOW.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That is just Ni coupled with anxiety. The anxiety is what causes the disconnect from the present moment. Although it could also be that you have taken a shower so many times in the past, that altogether your routine has been learned by your Ni. In that case the present moment has a list of connotations far beyond itself. But if you get lost in the future, then you are experiencing anxiety.
Ni is foreseeing the overarching future from the past centered around the perceptions of the present moment. That is the pure essence of Ni, without anxiety or any other functions interfering.
Maritsa, any type can get lost in their head, it's not function related. Stop being a jackass.
Last edited by crazedrat; 03-13-2011 at 06:43 PM.
So, Ni just tries to make some kind of computational predictions? It may actually has to do with anxiety, but we can also think about the future without necessarily experiencing anxiety. Planning and foreseeing the future can sometimes just be a work of our human imagination.
Anyway, Maritsa is right, N is about being in the future.
Well of course you can. Getting lost in the future is what anxiety is. Planning for the future as an activity which is soon to be implemented is different. You aren't losing your acquaintance with the present moment. The present moment leads into the next moment. But all the thoughts about the next moment originate from the past and are mediated by the present moment, in the absence of anxiety.
Maritsa is completely wrong when she says Ni is disconnected from the present moment. She is also partially wrong when she says N is about the future, since this implies S and the other functions are not about the future. But this is no surprise, since maritsa is consistently wrong in everything she says.
If you want to be technical, every function is about the past and the future, although this raises some semantic issues with Nis predictive qualities.. but those are easily resolved. Se for example can sense impacts. Ni is just a dynamic pattern which is filtering information.
All functions culminate information into a useful form. Information comes from the past, and modulates through to the present moment. The output of any function is a statement about the future. That is its useful form.
Ni is, at its core, about the all encompassing prediction. Making a timeline for the future. Seeing how all the pieces will fall. That is what distinguishes it as a prophetic function. And that's why we loosely refer to it as the 'predictor of the future'. But all functions technically predict the future, even the feeling functions. Fe for example can warn you of threats. What is a threat? A threat is basically a breakdown of the structure. Thats a prediction. The structure will break down. What about when Fe is used to preserve harmony, as in alpha Si/Fe? Fe is sensing discord in information which originated in the past. It then creates an imperative. That imperative has predictive value. Do X; If you dont do X, then Y.
Last edited by crazedrat; 03-13-2011 at 06:44 PM.
I don't necessarily think that Ni predicts anything, I think that is just pretentiousness, lol. To my knowledge Ni is simply "calculating". S functions are not about the future.
Yeah that reply was completely worthless. And now I realize I've wasted my time explaining all this to some random coke drinking stoner who probably didnt even read what I said much less understand it.
Im not interested in hearing your blanket statements about things which I know 10 times more about than you do. If you dont have a good response to what Im saying.. you dont get it, you dont care, whatever.. then just fuck off. But dont respond to me with your half ass opinion.
"I dont think Ni predicts things".. that statement in itself is just blatant, shameless stupidity. The whole value of thought is its predictive quality. We strive to predict our circumstances in every way. That's what learning is. If I asked you a question "what would happen when a .38 calliber bullet struck your head", your answer would be a well informed prediction. Making predictions is just a basic faculty of thought / being alive. What's more Ni is defined by its predictive quality in all the literature you will read on it.
What's worse is when you shift semantic paradigms to try and pass off your statement as valuable. "It's not predictive.. it's calculating!"> Great, how ab out we enter into a 15 minute breakdown of the semantics of the words predictive vs. calculating! That sounds like something a coke drinking stoner like yourself would be really interested in!
Last edited by crazedrat; 03-13-2011 at 06:26 PM.
Hmm, arrogant much? Why do you necessarily think that you are right? Where are you getting this from?
I know I am right because I am well informed. Im getting it from doing socionics for years. I am the official source. But there is also that I can read what i wrote, and realize it makes perfect sense, and from that know I am right.
This is the best description/example of Ni I've ever read.
For example.. and forgive me if I'm wrong with this, I'm still learning.. Ni to me is that feeling in your gut when you feel change coming, whenever a new element or person is introduced into your life and you think about all the implications it brings -- how will that person fit into your schedule? your dreams, your aspirations? or more concretely.. how having things like a new car will impact your life. For example I finally upgraded to an iphone last week, after impatiently waiting for my 2 yr plan to end.. and I was excited not because it was something new necessarily, or because it's cool to have an iphone, but because it basically increases my quality of life, as in I can easily figure out where I am now because of the mobile gps so I won't have to worry about getting lost as much, and I can research places to go before I visit them so I don't have to waste my money, down to the fact that I can even communicate with people easier, because texting is so much easier in a chat format, and with a full keyboard.
At work, the way I use Ni is that I see trends. I look at the numbers for how much we're selling, and of which things, and predict what we will need based on that (plus external factors like the weather next week, any holidays, promotions, etc.). When we hire new people I immediately try to figure out how they will fit into our team, based on their personality, and the personalities of all the people I work with, plus their histories, and what I know of them, etc. That way I can advise my boss as to what position they would best be placed, how they will fit into our "environment", and what to watch out for when dealing with them.
That is just pretentiousness... Ni types are not some sort of automated computational robots that are constantly observing and analysing data and making some kind of statistical analysis and generating predictions and predictive trends based on those observations, lol.
I do think that N types tend to think about the future a lot, though. Depending on the Ni, it might try to predict the future by analysing what has happened in the past. It gives warnings, like "This has happened before, so it will happen again". It might try to predict the future by imagining what it would be like in the future.
For Non
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
Some Ni-related activities/perspectives (not all exclusive to Ni, necessarily):
Investigating signifier-signified relationships: what are the conditions under which we interpret this sign or that sign? Is there anything that really makes it necessary that the signifier and signified are linked?
Self-reflection by means of othering the self, that is, viewing yourself from a "detached" or "outsider's" perspective (generally done unconsciously, but can also be done consciously).
Constructing narratives about the unfolding of an event over time from a small number of facts
Connecting internal traits to external actions ("so and so is like x, so he/she will take action y")
Sliding backwards and forwards on scales of things that generally unfold over time. The reason that's worded so ambiguously is because Ni also slides forward and backwards on causal chains (causality is generally, but not necessarily, temporal), and chains of necessity (that is, x must be true for y to be true, and w must be true for x to be true...)
Going from particular to general (Ti also does this, but in a different way).
Connecting everyday occurrences to larger meanings. Strong and valued Ni (coupled with intelligence) will usually be fairly nuanced about this, and can even learn to invest occurrences and language with meaning they did not have before. Weak and valued Ni will sometimes be very un-nuanced about it, like an SEE girl I knew who was convinced that some sort of scar on her ass was shaped like Africa and that meant that she should move there when she graduates college. Weak and unvalued Ni make the same sort of bad Ni predictions, but generally only under stress, and then they will usually be negative (because that node in your brain is connected with negative, since you've been shamed for doing it badly for a long time).
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
aixelsyd,
Thank you for making my leading function epic. I like that description very much. I'll only add that Ni in itself is purely experiential and cannot be used to guide or explain without its paired J function. Moreover, what the Ni type manages to communicate is a distant mirror of what he/she perceives. We Ni types are at our most useful when, rather than explain, we nudge others into our perceptual realm by way of abstraction and loose metaphor.
Then again, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know.
Last edited by Timmy; 03-14-2011 at 01:02 AM.
So what do you make of this statement coming from my mom...
"honey, file your taxed now, what are you spending your time on, I don't understand why you can't do it now. The season will be over and you wouldn't have done your taxes." "honey, pay your phone bill, it's due on the 16th, you won't have time; you'll get a late charge if you don't pay your phone bill by th 16th." She told me this in February In a frantic almost panic state that stresses me out. Hum??? The time hasn't even arrived yet. I can do it on the last minute, it only takes 20 minutes, but to her time is UP already. She calls, makes post it note, sends reminder emails, txt messages, sends me a message via my sister...
Do you think she could just live in the NOW please and not harass me over to do lists a month or two in advance...it's all about priority and getting things done now to avoid them in the future or carry you to the future.
My father is SLI, with Ni role; he doesn't do this to me. He does Ni just fine with keeping track of what time we'll have to be somewhere and such, but never pays attention to it like my mom does.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ni is able to predict the future only because it deals in memories of the past and then it projects them into the future. Many processes and themes repeat, but few people see it, thus a Ni user is said to be able to 'predict' the future when it was nothing than a mere extension of the past. Put a Ni-type into a radically new situation or rapidly changing conditions and *poof* the predictive ability is gone.
Also, anxiety is not related to Ni. I know a few Ne-types who can't quit smoking and a few other additions due to anxiety issues. This is more of a individual brain biochemistry thing.
I think there's many truth in that.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
My mom is ESE and she does the same thing to me. Tell her to take some xanax.
Just to be clear, no one has ever said or implied anxiety is specifically related to Ni.
Oh God, I wish I could stop doing this negatively. It makes me want to not be alive anymore.
Ive tried to completely boycott using Ni over the past month or so.
Can you describeI think attributing "time" to
Tits. Roughly speaking:
Ne + rational function = what's possible
Ni + rational function = what's probable
I'll add that the characterization of Ni (in conjunction with a rational function) as being homeorrhetic seems apt, i.e. "A dynamical system which returns to a trajectory, as opposed to a system which return to a particular state, which is termed homeostasis."
Last edited by Korpsy Knievel; 03-15-2011 at 12:58 AM.
I think you've typed yourself and your mom wrong. She's most likely ILI. ESE are too here and now to be concerned about stressing over bills like my mom and simply put, they would rather pursue pleasure than worry like she does.
True. I can have high anxiety as I worry about the future and my health way way too much, but that could be related to my Ni demonstrative block.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
You should be strung up and hung by your feet from a ceiling fan.
I swear to god.. you are so presumptuous it astounds me.
She has taken multiple tests and scored ESFj multiple times. Her personality also matches perfectly with the descriptions of ESFj and with my experiences of them.
I also read the ESE descriptions to her on this site and she said she identified strongly with all of them.
But no, you know more about my mom than I do! She's actually INTp - the opposite on every dichotomy!
You know, when you have a ton of bills to pay and a family to feed it tends to preoccupy your mind.
Dont respond to me.
Last edited by crazedrat; 03-15-2011 at 04:44 AM.
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