It's McCarthy all over again. The government needs to recognize the threat and neutralize it.
It's McCarthy all over again. The government needs to recognize the threat and neutralize it.
Racial profiling is fine.
Go away, tcaudilllg. No one likes you and you contribute nothing to society.
Last edited by discojoe; 05-13-2010 at 02:30 PM.
My husband is an immigrant. If we go to Arizona and he isn't carrying his green card, can he be arrested? Or does him being white and English-speaking make it OK?
Another question. I have a neighbor who is an immigrant from Mexico. He's a cardiologist and is pretty wealthy. Would they likely get arrested if they weren't carrying documentation in Arizona? I'm thinking yes for them, but no for my husband for some reason. It's pretty scary, kind of Nazi-ish. (And I completely disagree with "Godwin's Law", I think people use that to try to excuse them when they know they're stepping into that kind of fascist territory.)
According to the bill, yes. The officer can actually arrest anyone they suspect, by any criterion they conceive of, of being in the country illegally. That means they can use racial profiling or whatever. All the bill says is "if there is reason to suspect, then an arrest may be made".Originally Posted by Mariella
Technically they could, but it sounds like that law was made to target people of a specific ethic group that he isn't a part of. I doubt it would ever be used against him.
Probably not. But if you're a Hispanic, this law basically says you are a second-class citizen.
I think some of these recent foolish acts have been committed because people are generally getting rather upset with the federal government and its recent policies, and are overcompensating thoughtlessly.
I'm at a friend's house on her computer so I can't respond fully at the moment, but quickly...
Please keep in mind the current state of politics in the US and the impossibility of getting a non skewed interpretation from either side of any action that is taken. I'm fairly certain that Tcaud reads, trusts, and bases his views on information from the Left which is no more trustable in this climate as a 100% reliable source as is information coming from the Right.
The citizens of Arizona are not nazis. We are aware of the problems and issues that come out of this law, and ARE working through addressing them as things progress. Arizona has a massive Hispanic population (legal citizens) and there is absolutely no way that every Hispanic seen on the street will be (or even can be) stopped and harrased for their "papers". It's just not going to happen, and it IS NOT in the slightest the intent of this law or how it will be practiced on the streets.
@SlackerMom... in both cases, if not US citizens and not in possesion of proof of legal immigrant status both COULD be at least detained I think, but would be able to very easily fix the situation without penalties by providing that documentation to the courts at a later date (much like getting pulled over with proof of drivers insurance and getting the charge dropped by providing that proof later (which is standard procedure in Arizona courts)
The reality of this situation is that the police and citizens are well aware of the slippery slope, the national media focus, and the concerns over this law. People are not going to be harrased for their documentation unless there is OBVIOUS reason to suspect them. If you are wearing grimy just walked 100 miles through the desert clothing and do not speak a word of English, you fall into that category. If not, there is a 99% chance that you are not even going to be looked at with a second glance.
Yes, this sort of this is not pretty and there are dangers that need to be kept in mind and worked out as it is implimented in the real world. But action needs to be taken, the feds are not taking those actions in any way that is resolving this problem, so we as a state are being left with the ugly (but nessesary) task of doing it for ourselves or at least creating enough of a ruccus that the feds do their job and deal with it for us.
According to reports, traffic across the border of every kind is at a standstill. Business between Arizona and Mexico has stopped. It's like Arizona become a different country all of a sudden.
"We as a state, we as a state"... there is no state, only the country. There is no state identity. That's a legacy that needs to be abolished. Creating such nationalist furor where there normally isn't any... that's what right wing extremists like Brewer do. Brewer is creating situations that are forbidden by the constitution. The judges need to step up and do something. It just takes one judge to strike down this law so... where is it?
I actually read the law. I've read the entire text of the law. It says only that the cop needs to have "reasonable suspicion" a person is in the country illegally before stopping them, without outlining the definition of reasonable. It's not the good guys, but the bad guys that matter: good cops will not use this power, bad cops now can. That was Brewer's entire intent: to empower sociopaths to act on their urges and rationalize their integration into society without appropriate checks and balances. Because as a sociopath, that's what Brewer does.
It's a matter of probably a couple months before we hear of a Rodney King-style report of how the police are abusing this new-found power. And it's not just in Arizona -- 12 other states are considering similar legislation.
BG, I'm going to be tough on you.
Why not ship of all the drug users and dealers to Mexico and give a every illegal or immigrant worker a citizenship paper. Well, Mexico wouldn't like that and neither would other people in the US.
All the small government people talk about how government infringes on our way of life, and well here they are, infringing on people's lives, except with swat teams and handcuffs, not tax forms and paperwork.
I much prefer tax forms and paper work to swat teams ad handcuffs.
These laws were made so hateful people like that sheriff in Arizona can have the power to commit brutality on others in a legal and justified manner, while it's often hard to stop assholes like this from figuring out a way to be totally irresponsible, there is no need to pretty this sort of bullshit up. The petty inconveniences of people who probably aren't even that inconvenienced, but rather just hateful and fearful isn't enough reason for this form of law to be enacted. History is full of these sort of rationalizations, usually ending with terror and oppression, don't be just another apologist.
Anyways, take it from a pretty productive American Citizen who is working a good job and does cool stuff, the representatives of Arizona and their backers sucks. Also the letters in Arizona can spell OrANazi , or some other variation.
Care to take a vote on that?
Would be easier if you could get them to wear yellow bands on their arms.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
There is a lot more to this than you folks are probably aware of.
And no... it is not racism.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
-- Mark Twain
"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
-- Confucius
Racial profiling is perfectly fine when you know that the people you're looking for are of a particular race. It would be stupid to mandate that police needed to meet a quota of white people just to make it "fair" for Mexicans who don't respect our laws.
However, I think that the best solution for this problem is to simply impose monetary sanctions on those who employ illegal immigrants, as that would take away much of the incentive for these people to come here in the first place.
To the question of banning ethnic "diversity" education in our schools, I am completely in favor of such legislation, since education of this kind is just watered-down bullshit to make minorities feel like their culture has contributed more to Western Civilization than it really has. Politics has no place in the school system, and mandatory politically motivated curriculum should absolutely be banned, though colleges should be free to offer whatever electives they wish to teach.
Instead of "black history," students should learn history.
Holy crap, I actually agree with discojoe on something?? I had to double check that a few times
But, yes. I think it is incredibly unfair to keep punishing the people who are coming here because they can make better lives for themselves and their families without punishing the people who go under the radar to offer them those opportunities without going through legal channels.
For example, I used to work for a company in Oakland that employed 99% illegals from the day labor sections of town. He literally saved tens of thousands of dollars every 6 months because he didn't pay taxes on any of them, didn't pay for benefits, didn't pay overtime or holiday pay. This company is the reason I get pissed off when I see those email forwards ranting about how illegal immigrants are making tons of money because they don't pay any of that from their checks: they don't, but they also don't get even half of what they *should* be paid if they were citizens. But that doesn't matter to them in the short run, because they're still making way more here on a crappy salary than they did when they were starving back home... so they come here.
So who should be punished: the person trying to feed their family, or the company taking advantage of that desire to save themselves money? This is America, land of capitalism, so... of course it's the immigrants instead of the business drawing them in. Because it's all about making as much money as you can, as long as you're here legally.
Sigh.
Re: Black History month, I know it's not PC to say but I think they either need to start dedicating every month to another culture as well or they need to let it go. After all, we don't have Irish Indentured Servant month, and they were a problem long after black people were set free.
Just sayin'.
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." Mark Twain
No trees were destroyed in sending this message; however, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
I am definitely a 7, and most likely an IEE. Stay tuned for further updates.
First, please don't condescendingly refer to me as baby.
Second, the purpose of history class is not to teach about "white" or "black" history; rather, it is to learn about the important events that have shaped society so that people will have a solid foundation of contextual knowledge with which to judge current events. Adding a particular race's history into the curriculum for the purpose of "fairness" is not conducive to actual learning, especially given how politically motivated the curriculum is. Why am I being forced to learn something just to make a group of people feel better?
Third, there is not any equivalent, official or de facto, of "white history month." In my college history class, I learned about Western Civilization, and the curriculum, for blatantly politically correct purposes, constantly mentioned African Civilization and women. So it's not like our classes don't already inject black history into the curriculum.
Fourth, you may wish to consider why a hypothetical history class would primarily talk about the history of Caucasian peoples. Might it have something to do with societal contribution?
By the way, my role model is a black person, so I'd like to offer you a preemptive STFU in the event of any racism accusations.
Hard to believe this kind of thing surprises people, as it's not like racial profiling isn't already present in other states as an unwritten guideline.
Anyway, all of a school's classes are on a political agenda; the removal of black history would only end up angering folks and wouldn't solve any of the problem, as it would be replaced with more BS.
The way I heard it, the law allows police to ask for identification from people they have already stopped for other reasons (speeding, jaywalking, murder, etc.), and whom they have reason to believe may be an illegal immigrant (i.e., something more substantial than "He looks kinda Hispanic"). It does not allow them to just stop people randomly on the street for no reason, it just allows them to ask for proof of immigration status in addition to driver's license, etc.
At least, that's what I heard, I haven't really looked into it.
[Edit: The real problem, of course, is the overly high minimum wage and heavy tax burden that makes it worth it for employers to risk breaking the law to hire illegal immigrants.]
Quaero Veritas.
Actually, I was agreeing with you, lol.
I'm curious discojoe.. what do you contribute to society?
Human capital.
*excited at prospect of flame war*
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