Combining Enneagram and Socionics Quadra

[electric sheep]

If each quadra had a "representative enneagram type" what would it be?

alpha: 3w2
The way I see it is that alpha has a need for outside approval, and generally wants to brighten the mood of those nearby. Even the intellectual alphas ultimately want to be recognized and liked for their accomplishments, no matter how esoteric, and are happy to share their knowledge.

beta: 6w5
6w5 seems to embody the anxiety a lot of betas have with abuse of authority, dishonesty, loyalty, and a general "us vs. them" mentality

gamma: 3w4
Gamma is similar to alpha in that they ultimately want recognition, but it's for more concrete and work related achievements. Alphas might just want to be liked, but gamma is all about accomplishment and esteem.

delta: 9w1 (or 1w9?)
Deltas want everyone to get along and to live their quiet lives in peace. There really isn't anything especially contentious about delta, but they take their ideals seriously and will work for them.

[crazedrat]

yeah, gamma alpha alliance. its the first step to world peace

[electric sheep]

yeah, gamma alpha alliance. its the first step to world peace

I think the relationship between gamma and alpha is by nature less contentious than beta and delta.

I also considered 4w3 for beta because of their tendency to glorify their pain and use it almost like a status symbol. It helps that a lot of betas happen to be 4w3s.

[Marie84]

This is good, as is the one Pezra did for the types

[Creepy-male]

Fwiw, I don't think Deltas are really into the "abstract idealism" thing, against 1w9.

[Gilly]

Alpha is more 2 than 3, and I'd throw 6 and 7 in there as well. I would say Gamma's "seeking" is closer to 5ish avarice than 3ish status-seeking; they also have elements of 6. Delta is definitely 1, 9, and 6. Beta...who knows, I guess 6 works. But also there is a big 4 element, as well as 8 and 3.

I think every quadra has significant elements of 6, though; it is the most nonspecific e-type, so that kind of makes sense.

[electric sheep]

Alpha is more 2 than 3, and I'd throw 6 and 7 in there as well. I would say Gamma's "seeking" is closer to 5ish avarice than 3ish status-seeking; they also have elements of 6. Delta is definitely 1, 9, and 6. Beta...who knows, I guess 6 works. But also there is a big 4 element, as well as 8 and 3.

I think every quadra has significant elements of 6, though; it is the most nonspecific e-type, so that kind of makes sense.

Type 2 probably describes the SF half of alpha better than it does the NT half. There's the same problem with 5 for gamma. I was aiming for a happy medium, and types 3, 6, and 9 are generic enough to do that. It helps that I can think of real life examples of 3w2 for each alpha type and 6w5 for each beta type. I can't think of a 3w4 for each gamma, or 9w1 for each delta. Think it's possible?

[Creepy-male]

What about Abraham Lincoln?

EDIT

Assuming he's a Delta and a 9w1.

[717495]

I kind of like the 3w2 and 3w4 comparison between Alpha and Gamma. Not sure if others would specifically see it that way. I would be inclined to say that 3 is psychologically more NT in its subconsciouness than it is SF?

This song I would say does not resemble something close to Gammas, because its about belonging and possibly helping and not about something deeply internal. It has that 3 theme though.

"A voice keeps saying, this is where I meant to be." I can relate to though, as well as the introductory themes, but I'm unsure if the character's main ambition is to belong, is what throws me, and I don't really know what he means by that. There are a couple possible interpretations. So there's my ethical introspection for the day

Kidding.

[Sharrum]

beta: 6w5
6w5 seems to embody the anxiety a lot of betas have with abuse of authority, dishonesty, loyalty, and a general "us vs. them" mentality

All those characteristics you said are perfectly in compass with 8w7 too, but I'd add an argument in favor of 8w7 because the courage and self-assertiveness of a E6 is rather a result of a internal struggle against the intense fear they feel, and the continuous will to prove themselves valuable and worthy for their own consciousness and also to the rest of the world. In the case of the beta E's this courage and intensity is due a feeling of disgust toward the world, betas think the rest of the world is wrong and they should struggle against it, we think that the rest of the humankind is unfortunate and feeble, we feel that the world has molested feelings so we should set fire on it. Don't you see the eternal Greek drama within the E betas? We live like tragic heroes, we have a tragic vision toward the World, just remember that EIE called Nietzsche, we are the heroes of a tragedy where we were brutally victimized and we search for bitter revenge against everyone else, against the humankind who's ignored and scorned our sensibility. Betas know the word hate better than anyone else. Hate and disgust against the entire world is something typical of 8's, a 6's is not moved by grudges, is not guided by revenge, the interior of a E beta points more at the number 8, betas are not moved by fear like a 6. The bitterness and the tragic life view of a beta can only be explained by the eneatype 8. A 6 try to imitate an 8 but as an 8 I can see clearly their fear, it's patent. Only the 8 is moved by a revenge against the whole universe. In the 6's actions it's implicit a submission to the world, they must prove they're worthy to others because they care too much about the others, a beta and an 8 doesn't give a damn about the world we just want to rebel and destroy it.

[electric sheep]

betas always seem to be plagued by insecurity. There are threads about it.

here's one:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...nsecurity.html

There is that fear of being controlled like you would expect from an 8, but I see beta as having an intense need for togetherness and unity, and not so much of a need for independence. 8s stand alone. Beta as a whole is not like that. Betas might see the rest of the world as feeble (I don't really know what it's like to be beta), but I don't think they see each other like that. If a 6w5 has been betrayed, they can be VERY vindictive.

Not too long ago ephemeros/pinocchio started some paranoid witch hunt over people's types. People kept accusing him of being a beta because of how he went about arguing with everyone. I think he's a 6w5, and even though he is ILE, he seems to exude beta values.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...istypings.html
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...o-beta-st.html

[silverchris9]

All those characteristics you said are perfectly in compass with 8w7 too, but I'd add an argument in favor of 8w7 because the courage and self-assertiveness of a E6 is rather a result of a internal struggle against the intense fear they feel, and the continuous will to prove themselves valuable and worthy for their own consciousness and also to the rest of the world. In the case of the beta E's this courage and intensity is due a feeling of disgust toward the world, betas think the rest of the world is wrong and they should struggle against it, we think that the rest of the humankind is unfortunate and feeble, we feel that the world has molested feelings so we should set fire on it. Don't you see the eternal Greek drama within the E betas? We live like tragic heroes, we have a tragic vision toward the World, just remember that EIE called Nietzsche, we are the heroes of a tragedy where we were brutally victimized and we search for bitter revenge against everyone else, against the humankind who's ignored and scorned our sensibility. Betas know the word hate better than anyone else. Hate and disgust against the entire world is something typical of 8's, a 6's is not moved by grudges, is not guided by revenge, the interior of a E beta points more at the number 8, betas are not moved by fear like a 6. The bitterness and the tragic life view of a beta can only be explained by the eneatype 8. A 6 try to imitate an 8 but as an 8 I can see clearly their fear, it's patent. Only the 8 is moved by a revenge against the whole universe. In the 6's actions it's implicit a submission to the world, they must prove they're worthy to others because they care too much about the others, a beta and an 8 doesn't give a damn about the world we just want to rebel and destroy it.

Huh. I really like your posts. There are parts of them I have to disagree with, but generally, I like them. I have no idea whether or not the bolded part applies to E8s (I've never studied that type, as I know that's not me just prima facie), but it's shocking how well it applies to at least IEIs and SLEs, if you really understand the meaning of it, which is not necessarily "we want to physically break everything." Rebellion can be much more significant than the merely physical, the merely external. In fact, my good friend who is SLE and is an extremely committed Christian (we're both Christians, but unfortunately, I must say that he probably works harder at his faith than I do, which is a poor reflection on my character), and is ALL ABOUT rebellion, but in a deeper sense than fanatical destruction. And yet it is still profoundly a rebellion against the whole world, insofar as the world is the fallen world, the world of decay and death, etc. I guess that's why Ni and Se fit so well together (he's gravitated towards a brand/denomination of Christianity that manifestly has more room for Ni big picture stuff than Ne realize your potential stuff). Of course, we can also paradoxically be the most compassionate, the most feeler-y. The impulse to destroy is rooted in a realization that things can, and should, be better. And it's so interesting how the SLE has this outward rebellion against the way the world is, while the IEI has this inward rebellion against the way the world is in more of a conceptual way; the rebellion against old forms of thought, false conceptions of the world, whatever gets in the way of the capital T Truth, whatever that may be.

Anyway, I really like this whole Romantic notion of things, although I can inherently see where Romanticism has its limits, both in the external Romanticism of action (often political in nature) and the internal Romanticism of reconception, or deconstruction or "the breaking of the vessels" or social/intellectual iconoclasm or whatever.

[electric sheep]

here's something that struck me as especially beta and is not incompatible with what you're saying:

Sixes are attuned to power relations and to underlying power dynamics. They sense who has power, who wants it, who will use it, who will misuse it, and they are often the ones who sense an imbalance or injustice where others simply see the status quo. As they easily tend to feel like victims themselves, they often identify with the underdog and can even devote themselves to the cause of redressing what they see as injuries done to those without power. These Sixes are, perhaps, union organizers, or feminists, or perhaps even those who defend the rights of the unborn, as, like all the types, Sixes can be found on all ends of the political spectrum. It is not so much that all Sixes are politically motivated, but, as Sixes do tend to be oriented to power dynamics, they often take decisive positions when it comes to social issues or causes.

Sixes are quite sensitive as children and can be seriously wounded by abuses of power visited against them by their parents or teachers. As power abuse against children is almost universal, it is the rare Six who isn't forced to confront core issues head on at a very vulnerable age. Something of the unfairly punishing authority tends to stay with Sixes long after they have moved into adulthood and serves to color all of their subsequent intimate relationships, especially those in which there is a perceived imbalance of power which disfavors the Six.

as well as this:

Many Sixes succumb to their anxieties and fears. Some of these settle for a simulacra of true courage and attempt to find peace of mind by convincing themselves of the truth of some contrived system of belief. To this end they might surround themselves by a chorus of voices from like-minded others, while projecting their own unacknowledged shadow onto those who disagree with them. Then there are those Sixes who choose to over identify with the role of "rebel" and adopt a defiant and oppositional stand against whatever exists, which often enough succeeds in sowing little more than negativity.

http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=33:33

and regarding silverchris's notion on paradoxical compassion:

Until they can get in touch with their own inner guidance, Sixes are like a ping-pong ball that is constantly shuttling back and forth between whatever influence is hitting the hardest in any given moment. Because of this reactivity, no matter what we say about Sixes, the opposite is often also as true. They are both strong and weak, fearful and courageous, trusting and distrusting, defenders and provokers, sweet and sour, aggressive and passive, bullies and weaklings, on the defensive and on the offensive, thinkers and doers, group people and soloists, believers and doubters, cooperative and obstructionistic, tender and mean, generous and petty—and on and on. It is the contradictory picture that is the characteristic “fingerprint” of Sixes, the fact that they are a bundle of opposites.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeSix.asp

[electric sheep]

So in my pursuit to combine enneagram and socionics into some kind of perfect formula to churn out harmony and all that, I've noticed I tend to have better relations with alphas of certain enneagram types than I do with others.

You should be acquainted with the documented enneagram type compatibilities:
Compatibilities for Relationships between Enneagram Types

I think to best kind of relationship according to the enneagram, you should be duals in socionics, and the enneagram relationship description should be in line with your quadra values. For example, I think a 5/2 couple would be more in line with alpha values than it would be with gamma or delta values.

alpha 5 and 2: probably the most obvious alpha caregiver-infantile relationship.

Twos and Fives are a more common pairing than might be expected: Twos can see Fives as challenges—distant, mentally preoccupied, not giving many outward signals, and difficult to charm easily because they are so private. It is hard to know what pleases Fives which makes Twos only try harder. Twos bring to the relationship a willingness to take the initiative and to pursue the Five—to be the first one to call or to ask for a date, no matter which gender they are.

alpha 3 and 7: not really a traditional caregiver-infantile relationship, but still has a youthful alpha feel to it. (and my personal favorite)

Both are persuasive and articulate, often lively and attractive, making them sought after company. Both have a youthful orientation such that they feed off of each other's energy: no other couple is as vivacious or gregarious as the Three/Seven couple. This is probably the highest energy combination of types and they wholeheartedly engage in lots of activities, plans and projects, with the emphasis on attaining the good life. The focus is on sociability, going out, having adventures together and on realizing possibilities and on finding personal fulfillment.

That's all I have time for right now. Feel free to contribute.

[Absurd]

Isn't this a BIG joke ? A BIG fakken rip off ?

[electric sheep]

well, yes. I'm going off my own experience. so if you just want to be a jerk then fuck off.

I'm just putting 2 and 2 together.

[Creepy-male]

Two Nines certainly seems the most Delta, I think. Depends whether or not you believe IEEs can be Nines however, and please don't take this as a passive-aggressive jab, electric sheep.

[Galen]

Two Nines certainly seems the most Delta, I think. Depends whether or not you believe IEEs can be Nines however, and please don't take this as a passive-aggressive jab, electric sheep.

I think I know an IEE who's a 9, it doesn't seem unlikely.

[Wynch]

Um, this seems overly obvious to me, but ILE 7s plus SEI 9s? No?

EDIT: Similarily, IEE 7s and SLI 9s.

EDIT2: Also, I don't think 5-2 is even remotely the most obvious pair. Perhaps one of the more obvious LII-ESE pairs.

[Gilly]

7 and 5 sounds like SEE/ILI.

[redbaron]

it's easier for me to type people with a socionics type than for me to type them with the enneagram. I guess b/c inner motivations are more difficult to determine.

The ones I do know (which aren't duals so maybe irrelevant to this thread) are:

SLE 7 with LII 5
IEE 7 with SEI 4
IEI 4 with ESE 6
EIE 3 with SEI 9
ESE 2 with IEE 7
SEI 9 with EII 6

...none of these are particularly great matches either, fyi.

[Gilly]

Weird, enneagram seems so much more obvious to me when I meet people.

[electric sheep]

Two Nines certainly seems the most Delta, I think. Depends whether or not you believe IEEs can be Nines however, and please don't take this as a passive-aggressive jab, electric sheep.

relax, I've said my piece. Time for me to be productive again.

Um, this seems overly obvious to me, but ILE 7s plus SEI 9s? No?

9s are the least active of all types and the most difficult to push into action. I would think a 7 would get bored pretty quick, provided they are alpha and want to go out and see the wonders of the world. I think 7 ideally pairs with 3 within alpha. I know of one such SEI-3/ILE-7 couple. I know an ESE-7 and SEI-3 that are best friends too. I think ILE-6 works better with SEI-9, as does ESE-6 with LII-9.

EDIT: Similarily, IEE 7s and SLI 9s.

I know this one IEE 7 that I crushed on for a long time, and I saw her going out with this really lazy, inactive looking guy. I was thinking "why is she with this idiot! I'm so much smarter and more fun!" So yea I've seen IEE 7 with SLI 9 a few times. I think the 7-9 pair works better in delta than in alpha because of the more relaxed nature of delta.

EDIT2: Also, I don't think 5-2 is even remotely the most obvious pair. Perhaps one of the more obvious LII-ESE pairs.

Well yea, that's what I was thinking of, but I think it applies to ILE/SEI too.

I don't want to turn this into a "can socionics type ___ be enneagram type ___" thread though. Just take it in good faith and assume the answer is yes (or make another thread about it)

[silverchris9]

SLE 8 & IEI 4 ftw. Don't know any others. The description on the Riso-Hudson website about 4s and 8s perfectly suits beta values.

[redbaron]

SLE 8 & IEI 4 ftw. Don't know any others. The description on the Riso-Hudson website about 4s and 8s perfectly suits beta values.

have you ever seen SLE 7 and IEI 4?

[Marie84]

I can see these pairings working well (in theory) for my quadra

EII 9 - LSE 8
EII 4 - LSE 1
IEE 9 - SLI 5
IEE 7 - SLI 9

[silverchris9]

have you ever seen SLE 7 and IEI 4?

Hmmm... I know a probable SLE who would make lots of sense as a 7. But no, I've never seen an SLE 7 with an IEI 4. Why do you ask?

Also, anybody seen an SLE 1? I think I have a friend who might be a 1 on the enneagram and I'm pretty sure is an SLE.

[redbaron]

Hmmm... I know a probable SLE who would make lots of sense as a 7. But no, I've never seen an SLE 7 with an IEI 4. Why do you ask?

Also, anybody seen an SLE 1? I think I have a friend who might be a 1 on the enneagram and I'm pretty sure is an SLE.

I just wondered since you seemed pretty sold on SLE 8 with IEI 4. My brother is an IEI 4w5 and I'm trying to figure out if my SIL is SLE 7 or SLE 8. I'm not sure. She's been dualized for so long, she's very balanced and hard to figure out. But they're *perfect* for/with each other.

[Creepy-male]

I can see these pairings working well (in theory) for my quadra

EII 9 - LSE 8
EII 4 - LSE 1
IEE 9 - SLI 1
IEE 7 - SLI 9

SLI 1? Do you know someone like that? That seems like an interesting combination of type and sociotype.

[silverchris9]

I just wondered since you seemed pretty sold on SLE 8 with IEI 4. My brother is an IEI 4w5 and I'm trying to figure out if my SIL is SLE 7 or SLE 8. I'm not sure. She's been dualized for so long, she's very balanced and hard to figure out. But they're *perfect* for/with each other.

Oh, okay. Honestly, my enneagram is not great, but 4 and 8 make perfect sense to me (4 is an inside-out 8 and vice versa, just like an IEI is an inside-out SLE and vice versa, in many ways). Just off the bat, I would guess 5 and 7 would be a better fit (5 is reclusive and withdrawn, 7 is crazy and out there doing stuff; 5 grounds 7 and helps with solitude/one-on-one time, while 7 brings 5 into the world and helps with social stuff). I'm not sure what 4 and 7 would be like, but it would be fun to think about.

[Marie84]

SLI 1? Do you know someone like that? That seems like an interesting combination of type and sociotype.

ugh I meant to put 5, that's a typo on my part and I'll change it now :redface:

[Galen]

What are the odds of there being an EII 6 or an IEE 6?

[Wynch]

9s are the least active of all types and the most difficult to push into action. I would think a 7 would get bored pretty quick, provided they are alpha and want to go out and see the wonders of the world. I think 7 ideally pairs with 3 within alpha. I know of one such SEI-3/ILE-7 couple. I know an ESE-7 and SEI-3 that are best friends too. I think ILE-6 works better with SEI-9, as does ESE-6 with LII-9.

Honestly, my best friend is a 3 and I can barely handle her energy. Then again, she's an EJ 3. What I enjoy about 9s is exactly that they're lower energy and I have something to put my energy into. Believe it or not, I'm looking for an IP not an EJ, lol. 9's seem to be excellent at rounding out my energy and I'm of the opinion that Si 9s are the ultimate caregivers, which is exactly what I want. All that caregivery goodness.

have you ever seen SLE 7 and IEI 4?

I'm sure it could happen, but as a 7 myself I can't ever imagine an intimate relationship with a 4. I've said it a thousand times in the past, but 4s are scary. They like digging at all the things I don't like thinking about. Perhaps an exceptionally healthy 7 could be in a relationship in a 4 and they might be good at keeping them that way, but I can't imagine it being a super healthy relationship. Maybe a 7w8 SLE and a 4w5 IEI. I can't imagine 7w8 SLE with 4w3 IEI. But I'm not SLE, lol.

[07490]

Honestly, my best friend is a 3 and I can barely handle her energy. Then again, she's an EJ 3. What I enjoy about 9s is exactly that they're lower energy and I have something to put my energy into. Believe it or not, I'm looking for an IP not an EJ, lol. 9's seem to be excellent at rounding out my energy and I'm of the opinion that Si 9s are the ultimate caregivers, which is exactly what I want. All that caregivery goodness.


I'm sure it could happen, but as a 7 myself I can't ever imagine an intimate relationship with a 4. I've said it a thousand times in the past, but 4s are scary. They like digging at all the things I don't like thinking about. Perhaps an exceptionally healthy 7 could be in a relationship in a 4 and they might be good at keeping them that way, but I can't imagine it being a super healthy relationship. Maybe a 7w8 SLE and a 4w5 IEI. I can't imagine 7w8 SLE with 4w3 IEI. But I'm not SLE, lol.

But I think it is due to your Sx-last. I think in general 4 and 7 is a good match. Unlike 2-8 which generally is a bad matching. most IEI 4 tells me that their ideal would be a E-7 or E-8.

[Wynch]

But I think it is due to your Sx-last. I think in general 4 and 7 is a good match. Unlike 2-8 which generally is a bad matching. most IEI 4 tells me that their ideal would be a E-7 or E-8.

True.

[07490]

Have you tried out SEI E-4? I imagine the E-4 you were talking about is an IEI, and they do seek intimacy, I don't know how a SEI E-4 sx-last will look like, if there is such a combination...

[redbaron]

Maybe a 7w8 SLE and a 4w5 IEI. I can't imagine 7w8 SLE with 4w3 IEI. But I'm not SLE, lol.

7w8 SLE (Ti-sub) would be perfect with 4w3 (Fe-sub)!

Blaze is ILE E-7 and currently with an IEI E-4. I think it's going very well.

[redbaron]

Have you tried out SEI E-4? I imagine the E-4 you were talking about is an IEI, and they do seek intimacy, I don't know how a SEI E-4 sx-last will look like, if there is such a combination...

I know an SEI-9 sx-last. He'd LOVE an ILE E-7 sx-last. (but he's already married to EII-6...)

my dad is SEI-4 but I think he's sx-second or first.

[07490]

I know an SEI-9 sx-last. He'd LOVE an ILE E-7 sx-last. (but he's already married to EII-6...)

Oh man my cousin is an SEI-9 SX last, he would definity do well with an ILE E-7 sx-last. He always complain that he hates any sort of romantic intimacy, broke up with an IEI E-4 girlfriend because she asked too much question like "so, what do you think about me" which he feels super awkward about. Definity do super well with an ILE like Vero.

[electric sheep]

Honestly, my best friend is a 3 and I can barely handle her energy. Then again, she's an EJ 3. What I enjoy about 9s is exactly that they're lower energy and I have something to put my energy into. Believe it or not, I'm looking for an IP not an EJ, lol. 9's seem to be excellent at rounding out my energy and I'm of the opinion that Si 9s are the ultimate caregivers, which is exactly what I want. All that caregivery goodness.

Heyy give me some credit here. Is it possible you don't know what a SEI 3 looks like? It can be easy to mistake them, they can be very elusive. I see the more introverted 3s (like myself) as being much lower in energy than extraverted 3s (like your friend), but much more responsive to energy input than introverted 9s--we feed off each others energy like the description says. I don't think two extraverts in a 3-7 pair would work because there's too much competition. Introverted 3s are quieter about their achievements and probably look more like the "workaholic" 3 than the "super star" 3. They need a break! Go distract them!

9s can be very unresponsive to energy input. Case in point: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...hing-dual.html

My best friend is your exact type (ILE 7w6 so/sp) and I think he'd be much happier with a 3 than a 9. I think he wants someone to have fun with, not someone whose hand he would have to hold all the time--someone that can hold their own.

Oh man my cousin is an SEI-9 SX last, he would definity do well with an ILE E-7 sx-last. He always complain that he hates any sort of romantic intimacy, broke up with an IEI E-4 girlfriend because she asked too much question like "so, what do you think about me" which he feels super awkward about. Definity do super well with an ILE like Vero.

I don't think that has to do with sx last, I think that has more to do with being a 3. (but I don't know your cousin, so I can't say for sure, it's just that 3s are famous for avoiding intimacy--9s not so much)