Apart from the obvious, what's the difference between love and infatuation? How would you describe emotional states? And if you can, how did you maneuver intertype relations, especially duals, when experiencing the two?
Difference between love and infatuation?
Apart from the obvious, what's the difference between love and infatuation? How would you describe emotional states? And if you can, how did you maneuver intertype relations, especially duals, when experiencing the two?
Last edited by parcel; 08-31-2009 at 01:46 AM.
EII
I'd say, first-off, that infatuation is type-blind. Infatuation has a target, granted, but it's a thing in itself; it needs to be able to identify the target to persist, and while it can be defeated by negative emotions about the target, it doesn't meld with them.
Love (and I'm making a definition here, this isn't what it absolutely must mean) molds to the person, and thus can be strained or strengthened by their behavior. It is most certainly not type-blind - duality will have a symbiosis with love, while a relationship of conflict will be pulling against the love constantly.
Love mixes with and develops with your perception of the person; infatuation does not mix with your actual interaction. Both color your interaction, drawing you closer, but infatuation is both weaker when the relationship is good and stronger when it is bad.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
mo.
IEI, sp/sx 4w3.
Infatuation seems to be a counter-action to transience, to the feeling of slipping away from something. It's usually incepted because our hopes have been revived, spirits awakened, drive invigorated, due to the intensity induced in us by a specific object of desire. It ultimately ends up transient though, even if the relationship lasts in the long run, and thus, is nothing more than one side of a constantly flipping coin.Originally Posted by parcel
Love, on the other hand, seems more about an indistinguishable connection to an object of desire. I think the feeling is literally as if everything that happens to them, happens to you; their actions, feelings, mind states – whatever – are yours. You can't control this in the same way that you can infatuation, because there's no energy to be consciously effected; it's more of a letting go, where you find yourself inevitably pulled in ways you didn't expect.
I'm not sure how to integrate it with intertype relations, really.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Infatuation places a sheet of good qualities over the object of infatuation, totally disguising them as something they're not. It's infatuation, not love, that is blind.
Love sees a person as they are, and stands by them anyway.
You have a harder time respecting a person enough to want to stand by them the worse your values clash, including socionics values. Infatuation doesn't care what type they are.
Insightful. This helps to explain where infatuation comes from (I think that my explanation of its final form was good). Unlike love, infatuation is an attempt to repair the self - to obtain something that you know that you need. As such, infatuation is inflexible; whereas love molds to the object of love, providing you with what the person provides and leaving you free to love others in other ways, infatuation molds itself to the infatuated person, matching the object of infatuation either well or poorly. Because infatuation attempts to fulfill all of your needs, it does not leave you open to love others (although it may make room for a previous love that was insufficient for your needs).
Inspiration from: FOURS rescuers
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
That makes a lot of sense. The marked difference really does seem to be a matter of conscious intensification vs. emotional release, whether you attack what you think is right or accept that you are part of the right thing. This explains why it's very easy to move from infatuation to infatuation, convinced each time that it is perfect, only to discard it quickly for another, to stay involved in something. Love takes a relinquishment, an acceptance of the fact that you can't simply have that object of desire like a possession – although, in love, they will want to be yours – but have to actually first let yourself become theirs. It seems precarious from the outside looking in, each person giving up their independence almost; yet for two doves circling around, nothing is more fulfilling.
Of course.Inspiration from: FOURS rescuers
4w3-5w6-8w7
Very well put!
Also relevant is this article by Rick:
Nature and Persona
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
Great article. Very insightful and informative.
EII
You can stand to be around them. You can tolerate otherwise awkward silence. Silence isn't awkward anymore. You move through otherwise embarrassing things with ease. You laugh together about each other.
Duality is something else. We'll never get the same activation with any other partner. Meeting my dual makes me realize this. He's like a gem he's multi-faceted and I just want to observe and soak it up and remember the things he said that I find interesting or fascinating. He's adorable. He naturally compliments me. We're the outgrowth of what the other would want another person to be. And meeting my dual, too, makes me realize there's no other partner but my semi-dual, but that the semi-dual creates a dangerous gap, too. And I feel the barrier of duality that creates comfort and safety and I find all my natural abilities complimented and useful in another person.
Lefty
ENFJ
Last edited by leftylib; 09-02-2009 at 03:47 PM. Reason: To Post My Personality Type
And there after you undertake the creul act of pigmalion projects trying to change the person into what you need them to be which is why we are blessed with the wisdom, if we utilize it, to not go down that path, but rather, to find what compliments us and be with it and grow as individuals and bless everyone around us with the true love we've found.
Personality typing ought to be taught to everyone in school. Think of how blind we are without it.
Sounds like a truly satisfying experience. Hope I can have that some day.
I would completely support a proposal for teaching personality typing and theory (not just socionics) at the college level. However, this could lend itself to reductivist thinking or psychological determinism. It would also encourage stereotyping.
Last edited by parcel; 09-02-2009 at 05:20 PM.
EII
You will, and from my experience... it can be magick! Doesn't have to be, but in can truly be...
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
Love is when the feeling is mutual, infatuation is when you got dumped early on.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
There is such a thing as mutual infatuation
Love is when you want to give, infatuation is when you want to take.
Disclaimer: the phrase above might be wrong in some cases, all cases or in no case.
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
There is such a thing as mutual infatuation
Love is when you want to give, infatuation is when you want to take.
Disclaimer: the phrase above might be wrong in some cases, all cases or in no case.
Romantic!
Love is the happy ending. Infatuation is what we tell ourselves it was when our expression of love is unrequited.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
Right, Socionics isn't ready for this. It's better than what they're teaching now, but... we need to be clearer on how the mind works.
I think it's closer to: Love is what they do give you, infatuation is what you want them to give you.
It has more to do with how much you're adapting to them than how much you're giving them... an inflexible gift can be a pretty harmful thing.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
oh my.
So when a person selects another as a sexual partner, the brain begins releasing various cocktails of chemicals to assist in that process and hopefully pass on some genes. These chemicals create a euphoric feeling known as infatuation. (obviously there can be variations in gender/quantity or partner(s))
The problem with these chemicals is they eventually stop being produced, and can leave behind things like babies that need cared for or joint checking accounts. Once the chemicals stop the interest in the relationship can wane.
Luckily, things like habit, familiarity, and general affection combine with manufactured social concepts to create "love". Love is what stays after the chemicals wear off, keeping two people together long after they feel those great feelings they initially felt.
Wuv, twu wuv, that dweam within a dweam.
Bonus: With duality, you mind being around that person the least. Hurray!
Last edited by Banana Pancakes; 09-03-2009 at 01:51 AM.
ILE-Ti
6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)
My boyfriend is assertive and manly, he deals with politicians and ceos and powerful people every day, he isn't afraid to stick up for himself. I am a meek little ****** who wants everybody to get along and I lack any sort of competitive drive whatsoever, I just want to make pretty art and things and lounge about and talk about my fag feelings all day. But you know what they say, opposites attract and I'm SOOOO into him for these qualities and he drives me crazy because he's like that. We're really into each other because we're so different but it works out cause when we interact we naturally complement each other's weak points.
However there are some similarities. We're both kinda loners, we're both introverted. However he is a more go-getter introverted type and I'm not like that AT ALL. He likes to be free and to go out to places just for the hell of it, I am a homebody. We don't really have any of the same interests, which is actually good because we intrigue the other without getting in the way.
I would say infatuation feels like a dependence or addiction, you feel like you 'have to have them' and when you don't have them you get dramatic, angry and uptight. Whereas with love, that person is already yours (mutually). So it's a state of deep contentment and not lust.
But I don't know, you can be in the infatuation stage and it can turn into love. Or it can't. Look at all the heated crushes all of us got in our adolescence. Almost everybody can relate to the thing where like, you want to be with somebody but you just cannot! I was like SOOOOO into this straight/bisexual boy when I was about 16-17, but he realized he was more into women (or was too shy to act on his gayness, I don't know tbh) whatever it was, it just didn't work out. You can only angstily brokeback mountain ishly pine for somebody for so long before you realize they're not worth your heart.
lol @ it leaves behind a joint checking account.oh my.
So when a person selects another as a sexual partner, the brain begins releasing various cocktails of chemicals to assist in that process and hopefully pass on some genes. These chemicals create a euphoric feeling known as infatuation. (obviously there can be variations in gender/quantity or partner(s))
The problem with these chemicals is they eventually stop being produced, and can leave behind things like babies that need cared for or joint checking accounts. Once the chemicals stop the interest in the relationship can wane.
Luckily, things like habit, familiarity, and general affection combine with manufactured social concepts to create "love". Love is what stays after the chemicals wear off, keeping two people together long after they feel those great feelings they initially felt.
Wuv, twu wuv, that dweam within a dweam.
Bonus: With duality, you mind being around that person the least. Hurray!
sounds beautiful
I'm a latently bi female who is more hetero, but also more ambivalent towards men than a true heterosexual - which is funny, because my dual contains a lot of stereotypically masculine qualities that I actually admire. Which would seem contradictory for a feminist to be with, but in a way I think him being free to be a man is kind of pro-male and he should be able to embrace it completely. He reminds me a lot of a bear as in the LGBT group. And I love the bears I just managed to score a straight one.
Anywho - I identify strongly with themes of loss. Reminds me of the (all be it hetero...booorrrinnnggg
Cheers,
Lefty
ENFJ
Infatuation and love are not seperate phenomona. Just chemical triggers we have to encourage breeding and child-rearing. Just one is mutual, the other singular.
I think the simple divisions being made, such as "Give" - "Take", "Blind" - "Not Blind", "Accepting" - "Not Accepting" are not really true in all instances.
The words love, limerance, infatuation and various other words to describe our romantic feelings are formed from negative and positive interpretations of these real objective chemical reactions. The moral evaluation taints the observation in my opinion, it's just feelings, controllable and uncontrollable. But these feelings do fade, or you die.
The only problem with infatuation is its often impossibility. I don't even think people are neccessarily blind about infatuations, it's just a feeling. You can either go with it, try not to let it hurt others and do what you can to attain it. Or stick it into a hole. Or burn it away with drugs. Or simply forget it in nights of romantic adventurism.
Passion approached rationally is suffocating, one should approach such things poetically.
I hope you do, too.
Lefty
ENFJ
4w5
For anyone interested in the brain chemistry aspect of all of this: What Is Chemistry in Love Relationships.
Infatuation feels like you're floating if things are going well with that person and feel like anxiety if they're not moving along fast enough or if there are any setbacks.
Love, from my perspective, is not a feeling. It's a decision, a lifestyle.
The first stage of a relationship is infatuation. It can last up to 6 months to 3 years. The second stage is more of a stable, long term thing. Most people in a relationship say they love each other during the infatuation phase, which is sort of the biological purpose of it (to get them to commit/be invested).
What I'd call "love" though doesn't feel like you're walking on air. If feels stable and secure. But that's the effect of "love", not "love" itself.
As far as taking it from one stage to another, it's just a matter of time. If the relationship falls apart before you make it out of the first stage, then... eh well, it wasn't meant to be.
Last edited by Joy; 09-11-2009 at 06:20 PM.
If you recognise thatn you have an infatuation for someone else, it means you know that your admiration is somewhat illogical - while with love, you know it's for real (until you realise otherwise)!
HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
idky but that made me lmao
The end is nigh
Yeah, when Im infatuated I know I am. I think it gets worse when I rationalize it, but I don't want to become unconscious of the psychological reasons behind the feelings. If I do, then I guess... its like the equivalent from going from intelligent to moronic. I fear losing that cognitive/active mind state. This unfortunately leads to more obsession as I become increasingly withdrawn and reflective to remain "objective" about my emotions. And the energy sucking nature of this makes me see my infatuation as more glowing and beautiful than ever before.Infatuation and love are not seperate phenomona. Just chemical triggers we have to encourage breeding and child-rearing. Just one is mutual, the other singular.
I think the simple divisions being made, such as "Give" - "Take", "Blind" - "Not Blind", "Accepting" - "Not Accepting" are not really true in all instances.
The words love, limerance, infatuation and various other words to describe our romantic feelings are formed from negative and positive interpretations of these real objective chemical reactions. The moral evaluation taints the observation in my opinion, it's just feelings, controllable and uncontrollable. But these feelings do fade, or you die.
The only problem with infatuation is its often impossibility. I don't even think people are neccessarily blind about infatuations, it's just a feeling. You can either go with it, try not to let it hurt others and do what you can to attain it. Or stick it into a hole. Or burn it away with drugs. Or simply forget it in nights of romantic adventurism.
Passion approached rationally is suffocating, one should approach such things poetically.
The end is nigh
I totally disagree that infatuations are by nature not mutual. But even when the feelings are mutual, that doesn't necessarily mean that anything's ever going to come of it.
They may be mutual by virtue of both people harboring them; that doesn't mean there is a mutually beneficial feedback of emotions.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Yes. I like it.
True. For me, it's like trying to connect with a mirage. The other person may be trying to connect with a mirage of me at the same time. Neither of us are reaching the other, and nobody is satisfied.
I'd never describe love as a choice, that's a kind of cynic white trash ruthless bastard kind of thing. But yeah of course this only means I'm still in the infatuation phase after 3 years and half. If that's the case, I just hope that my brain is made in such a way that I'll be in infatuation mode forever.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
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