@mimosa: yes you describe creative Fi very well indeed. flexible. is leading Fi the same way though?
@mimosa: yes you describe creative Fi very well indeed. flexible. is leading Fi the same way though?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
This sheds absolute no light on her type (or Fi, for that matter).Originally Posted by mimosa pudica
4w3-5w6-8w7
I think maybe Fi-leading is perhaps a bit more rigid than that, but I agree fundamentally with Mimosa's views (except I don't necessarily get "feelings" nor would I make an association between feelings and fields, hmm but I guess Fi could be how you feel about something, the relation between you and that something, so I guess in a way it makes sense). It seems more generally to be a delta outlook to me. I actually think the main distinction she is trying to make is not (or is not just) Fi/Te vs Ti/Fe but rather Ne/Si vs. Se/Ni (though it could be both). I think valued Fi blocked with Se could be what Mimosa is pointing out in dbmmama, whereas she herself maybe uses Fi blocked with Ne.
I was going to quote something from wikisocion about Delta types not liking rules which didn't take individual circumstances into account, but now I can't find it :S
Well, to be honest, I tend to agree with dbmamma on that point. Not necessarily on the way she expressed her position, but my views are aligned with hers as far as the core issue goes. I've seen Fi types (Diana, if I recall correctly) agreeing with her, too.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
She's probably ESFj.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Any distinction between Te/Fi and Ti/Fe was lost in the convoluted string she spewed. As for a difference between Ne/Si and Se/Ni, I think that is remotely plausible, as Se/Ni tends to be more absolute (if that is what you're referring to) in it's experiential outlook.Originally Posted by hellothere
Yes, and I am grateful that you couldn't find it.Originally Posted by hellothere
4w3-5w6-8w7
Can't say about Fi valuing... but I do think ESFj is the most likely type for dbmmama.
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
How is Obama a pussy? All politicians need to be idealistic. They are getting lots of fat cash precisely *to* be idealistic leaders instead of doers. You can't blame them for that. Experience can be hired. Politicians and leaders are much better when they're idealist intuitives rather than hard-working "manly" sensors. It's the nature of the beast. Writers are the same way. The pen is mightier than the sword, and dictates the ideal way for humans to behave. The intelligent control the non-intelligent in this game.
Have you seen Obama try to bowl? He can't really do actual work well, but that's why he's a politician. *insert random joke here.* Politicians by their very nature are like that. They are supposed to understand how all systems work but not get their feet sullied in any one thing. A civilization needs that, unless you want to give up your conveniences. People that want to 'stick it to the man' can't even give up their i-pods or computers or level of cozy comfort. I'm just saying.
Bush tried to rule with a iron fist and look where it got us. More Heart and Mind and Spirit than Hand, please. I'd take a liberal pussy boy over a bully boy conservative any day.
Right, I didn't see any specific function usage in dbmmama's paragraph, really. Her opinion made logical sense.Originally Posted by FDG
4w3-5w6-8w7
What is an Fi rule, to you?Originally Posted by mimosa pudica
4w3-5w6-8w7
Why did it have to do with EJ or Fe, then?Originally Posted by mimosa pudica
4w3-5w6-8w7
actually it was from Rick's site:
I guess that's not really what Mimosa was pointing out in dbmmama's post, but I still think the reason for her [Mimosa's] view at least is her Ne-valuingSubdued elements:
The Delta Quadra doesn't appreciate high ideals or abstractions that don't relate well to real life. They also don't like large institutions or power systems that do not take into consideration the interests of separate individuals.
and also there's a similar theme in Alpha
its Ne/Si vs. Se/NiSubdued elements:
The Alpha Quadra is especially sensitive to and critical of mercantilistic views, ostentatious displays of wealth and status symbols, rude and aggressive behavior, moral criticism, and people who suggest they are wasting their time on unproductive things.
I'm somewhat confused, since I'm still trying to come to grips with and , but how is this about ? Since concerns static bonds between people, I'm not sure in what way can ever prescribe any form of 'general' rules where the other 'person' is not identified. After all, in an impersonal situation, what operates is not but - that is, the principle of 'I can't hurt people' and 'I should respect people and their beliefs' is in fact a Ti-rule, whilst an Fi-rule might be 'I can't hurt Steven' and 'I should respect Louise and her beliefs'. The difference with blocking according to and would be how these bonds are formed and how they are maintained/broken.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
()
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
actually I think this (your view on Fi) is perfectly consistent with what Mimosa was saying. She didn't identify the specific people explicitly, but in what she said was implied that you can't have general rules which you can use to judge all people, but that you have to take the specific people into account.
Having read her first post a few times over I would surmise that Mimosa meant that dbmmama's sentiment indicated a form of Ti-rule: that is all mothers should behave in the same way with respect to their children, rather than taking into account the specific individuals (Mother X, Child A, Child B, Child C), which would indicate -valuing. And as a result, it is more likely that dbmmama belongs to a quadra that values Fe/Ti rather than Fi/Te?
()
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
To me, there's a lot of functions jumbled up there, but the question of adjusting your behaviour toward different people is more a question of than . What guides your output can be either or . You might use both, but the extent to which you privilege on over the other indicates a particular valuing of that function.
But I think I understand what you were trying to say in your original post. And also, on a completely unrelated note, I do think dbmmama is ESE.
()
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
lol, wtf? you realize that message was directed at people typing me in enneagram based on bullshit, right? And where did I claim you were ESFj? I didn't even type you in this thread lol. You've essentially contradicted yourself without any outside help. congrats!Originally Posted by dbmmama
4w3-5w6-8w7
it wasn't directed at you. i was just using your words, i liked them. i was referring to people who just jumped on the bandwagon of saying i'm ESE without knowing really knowing me the same way you said in your thread about me and/or others saying you were a 6 who don't really know you.
I know people with Fi + Se who might have the same kind of arguments. I could see how it might lead you to believe she isn't Fi + Ne, because we're more prone to considering choices people might make in every possible scenario. But I don't even know if I'd rule that out on that one post, because some of these kinds of beliefs come from our own personal experiences rather than having a Socionic explanation.
So, dbmmama, I can't keep track but what types are you considering for yourself, and what have you ruled out?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
oh lolOriginally Posted by dbmmama
4w3-5w6-8w7
now, we've got something here about me.
i thought that my meaning of what i said in that post was perfectly clear. but, you and/or allie both interpreted the same way and not in the way i meant. and then i have to go back over what i said to explain it. this shit happens to me a lot irl. it sucks. and i do it to others too. i like clarity, clarity of thought, clarity of meaning. i'm a stickler for the meaning of words to mean exactly what a person says, yet, i must not be able to do it if others keep misinterpreting what i mean.
You do seem more Se than Ne. And I can see how you could have Ti PoLR. So I think SEE makes sense, personally. And I can hear those arguments coming from one of many ISFjs or ESFps I know.
Also, I think people with creative Fi get mislabeled Fe pretty often. Extraversion + obvious F type doesn't necessarily = Fe.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Actually, SEE does make some degree of sense, too.
Originally Posted by Logos
Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.
I pity your souls
i do understand a person's meaning underneath the words but i do not appreciate that i have to interpret it in my head. i'd RATHER someone just say exactly what they mean without my brain having to guess and interpret it. even though i CAN do that, i'd rather not have to.
then, i'm not really sure about my mil. you and her are so much alike. but, she was not good with reading people's facial expressions and such. she was amazed when i could so easily.
i read facial expressions effortlessly. i just don't like it when people's words don't jibe with what i know they are really thinking/feeling based on their facial expressions. which i know to be dead on.