The IEIs I don't get along with are some of the cruelest and most manipulative people I've ever met, but the ones I do are some of the coolest and most amazing people in my life.
These extremes confuse me. Why?
IEIs/INFps you are complicated
The IEIs I don't get along with are some of the cruelest and most manipulative people I've ever met, but the ones I do are some of the coolest and most amazing people in my life.
These extremes confuse me. Why?
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
They live life on the edgeOriginally Posted by Allie
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
I like it.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Yeah INFps are hot.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
You've answered your own question:
They're cruel to you if you don't get along with them; they are cool if you do get along with them.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Maybe you did, but I bet you they didn't get what I got from you last night.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
Yeah, I guess. But god, why is it so extreme? It's almost like if they sense I'm not completely in love with them they have to hate me. It confuses me.You've answered your own question:
They're cruel to you if you don't get along with them; they are cool if you do get along with them.
EDIT: IME, of course...
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Because everyone - not just IEIs - is inclined to see other people as if they were their duals.
Now, imagine that your inclination is to see everyone who seems a bit hostile to you as an "enemy SLE".
For what it's worth I see the whole fucking quadra the same way, Allie.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
INFp's can make you feel like no one loves you - or hates you - more than they do.
Even if my hostility is just part of my nature and not meant seriously?
Actually the whole thing doesn't really bother me now that I think about it. However, it does make me realize how much I value the relationships I do have with them.
I instantly disliked this one IEI girl I had met in school because she had always seemed rude and bitter towards me, but as she got to know me and we became friends...
wow, I just really care about her.
I just thought it was strange, the extremes.
And I'm slowly realizing most of my closest relationships have been with people I've disliked at first. kjsdhflksjdhfzlsjkdhflKSJhflksjhflskjd
It's probably not even IEI-related, but me
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Gah, yes. I wasn't sure if I was the only one that noticed this about IEI's. One minute it seems they're obssessed and in love and want you more than anything and then it's like BAM! and they're upset with you for some seemingly unknown, unimportant reason and make you feel like everything you do is wrong and it's all your fault. I said it before in another thread, I feel like I have to walk on eggshells all the time.. the levels of guilt they can make you feel are too much. I wish I didn't like them so much because it sure is one huge emotional rollercoaster for me.
This sounds familiar and it's so wrong that I feel so compelled to help them regardless of how they treat me.
oh yeah...we were dykin it out
As for the original notion, I don't think INFp's are inherently manipulative per se. The manifestation of something and the actual substance are rarely the same thing. So, what it really is, is a penchant to spin social webs (the ENFj is more about control; the INFp sits back and watches it unfold). We naturally want to keep the Fe states going with people, and see the subtleties of their behavior easily (Ni), so "games" come naturally. As for the extremes between cruel manipulation and complete love, this is probably a result of the INFp's insecurity. If they feel out of control of the relationship (maybe the dominoes are falling in a way they hadn't planned) or think you're against them, they'll get all Se and shit lol. I don't know.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Well, then I have to conclude that those who get cruel to you are not reading you correctly. Nobody's perfect.
Do you ever forgive someone after they've acted "cruel"? What sorts of apologies are you expecting? I get the sense IEI's hold enormous grudges.
I don't really hold grudges - it's a waste of energy. If I do have a vendetta for someone, I'm definitely not gonna think about it incessantly. And yes, I always try to smooth things out after being rude...it's like I want it to seem as though nothing happened, and I'll usually sweet-talk my way into the person's good graces again lol.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I agree with this--I rarely hold grudges. Takes too much emotional effort. I usually try to smooth things over. But I admit, there have been times when I've felt unfairly treated and I've felt inside myself that f-you reaction. Although I try to hide it. So I can imagine IEIs that were unhealthy or a bit more uninhibited (heavy Fe subtype, for instance) lashing out and seeming mean or vindictive, yeah.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I don't hold grudges (at least i try not to) either but it seems that even after the IEI supposedly "got over" and "moved on", there was always that underlying tension that they didn't quite get over it and that no amount of apologizing would make a difference. Of course, this is probobly an entirely personal thing and hardly type related IMO, but maybe it rings true with some of you? I don't know. I get a very mixed message with them at times. They forgive me, we're on good terms, they look for the smallest thing to bring up the past, we argue, they hate me for 2-3 months, they forgive me, we're on good terms.....you get the picture.
I don't hold grudges - I remember disappointments. I think others sense a change in the way that I look at them after they disappoint me. They can see it, feel it, sense it, etc. I believe resentment builds on their side, not mine. They want that idealistic IEI enamored obsession back, but they don't understand how to get it back.
If I see that someone had an opportunity to do the 'right' thing, but they chose to be lazy and take the easy way out, I am deeply disappointed. I realize that we are all merely human - but we can try. I am heartbroken when someone does not even try to be a better person, when all it requires is choosing to do the best possible thing in the moment - no matter how much effort is necessary. Don't they care? Have they no pride? No dignity? No conscience? How miserably disappointing.
I think this quote describes it best: “You gave him an opportunity of showing greatness of character and he did not seize it. He will never forgive you for that.” (Nietzsche)
Well, no. This hasn't been my experience. When I was 17 I was hurt by a guy who I loved very much. And now, I can honestly say that I feel nothing for him and haven't felt anything for at least 15 years. You never know, you're still young and you may find that time will surprise you.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Oh wow! this is SO good. yes yes yes "I remember disappointments" exactly.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I have known ENTp's to become physically ill in the presence of Beta wrath, specifically from IEI's and EIE's.
I bet IEI's are tigers in the sack.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
Yeah, from what I've gathered, whips and stripper heels are regular issue.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
a humble one. My ESE husband always apologizes if he's said something mean in the heat of the moment or whatever. On the other hand, an SEI friend I used to have once really disappointed me by intentionally choosing to go out to a bar with strangers instead of seeing me on my birthday. I was hurt but I knew he'd never apologize and so, to keep the friendship, I forgave him and decided to move on. (Good luck getting a real apology out of an SEI male. Gosh that guy thought he never did anything wrong. Stubborn.)
IEI-Fe 4w3
Perhaps the reason for this is because when you meet a person you have the potential to become close to you're intuitively aware that you may become dependent on said person? I don't know, I think it's natural to resent someone you're dependent on when you don't know if you can trust them. Personally when I meet new people I think I give off a similar "rude, bitter" vibe, in fact I react negatively to all new things... then over time they start to grow on me. I'm weary of becoming friends with someone when I first meet them because once a friendship is cemented my Fi kicks in (takes at least 2 years) and I know I'm stuck with them, and them with me, for life.
Actually the whole thing doesn't really bother me now that I think about it. However, it does make me realize how much I value the relationships I do have with them.
I instantly disliked this one IEI girl I had met in school because she had always seemed rude and bitter towards me, but as she got to know me and we became friends...
wow, I just really care about her.
I just thought it was strange, the extremes.
And I'm slowly realizing most of my closest relationships have been with people I've disliked at first. kjsdhflksjdhfzlsjkdhflKSJhflksjhflskjd
It's probably not even IEI-related, but me
Yeah personally I don't take other people's apologies seriously, apologies seem like more of a conditioned social etiquette thing with doubtful sincerity. I don't often apologize to others either. If somone's sorry about something then I expect them to prove it by not doing it again. Likewise if I'm sorry about something I won't apologize but rather slowly atone for it. Depending on what's been done this can admittedly be a slow painful borderline-masochistic process but it provides insights into people's character... and afterwards you know if the relationship has substance or if it's simply based on convenience.
INFp-Ni
Can you provide a practical example of a healthy IEI doing something "cruel" and "manipulative". Unhealty people of all types do weird stuff so I am not interested in really extreme stories. Just "normal" IEI cruel and manipulative behavior. I just want to understand what exactly do they do. I've never known an INFp from a short psychological distance so I have no idea.
Edit: Jessica too if you have examples. Or anyone else who has real stories.
hmmmm i've not known IEI's to be cruel and manipulative. hot-cold, yes but not cruel. even when they are manipulating the mood, it's usually for good not for bad. when i catch them at it, trying to put a positive spin on something that no positive spin can really be put upon, they don't like that, but i wouldn't say they are cruel.
when they are cold, it feels really bad since when they are warm it feels really good. kinda like you feel the loss of the warm fuzzies from them. but they are not trying to be cruel.
sometimes they're trying to get some Se thrown back at them....at these times it seems like they are more playing, trying to provoke the Se.
to sum up, i don't think of the word cruel when i think of IEI's. *shrugs*
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
This is why I would like some real examples. I am somehow suspecting that this "cruelness" is not really cruelness but just their natural emotionalism which feels cruel for someone who expects eternal and unconditional love from them. I might be wrong though and IEIs really are cruel and suck ass.
lol @ "normal" IEI, in my experience IEIs are difficult to classify into healthy/unhealthy because their moodiness and irrationality... meaning one kind act can suddenly turn an unhealthy IEI into a healthy IEI and get them back on their feet whereas one irritated wound can suddenly turn a healthy IEI into an unhealthy IEI and *flush* there they go drowning in the gutter again. Also an IEI can simultaneously appear healthy to some people and unhealthy to others
Actually you're right. I think cruel was the wrong word to use. I originally meant that I believed that the way they used social/emotional manipulation on people was cruel. Of course I am saying this based on the particular experiences with them I have dealt with. Not in general.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
This is a good post. Very true...especially the hot/cold statements. I do not and will never understand this. Could an IEI possibly explain how your feelings toward someone you care about change so drastically in a matter of mintues? How can you go from love to hate so quickly? Is this "hate" just an exaggeration? When you care about someone, why do you put them thru this? It's love-hate-love-hate. Are you looking for the other to validate they care about you? Pleeeease, I don't understand it. It's extremely frustrating.
I'll post some examples maybe some time soon if i get the chance, XOX.
no no it's not hate. If an IEI "hates" you they'd cut you out of their life. Although in all honesty there's no one that I actually "hate", in fact it would take a lot for me to actually "hate" someone so if it ever occurred I'd probably have to kill them (lol), basically what IEIs are putting you through is exactly what they themselves are going through, it's not a conscience manipulation, IEIs aren't logical rational calculating people, in many ways from an emotional standpoint looking at an IEI is like looking into a foggy mirror, if you could just wipe it clean and get a clear look you'd see someone experiencing what you're experiencing.
some of them are beyond hot.
Heh, I am never cruel on purpose. I think it may be more a situation of the IEI clamming up for some reason rather than starting to 'hate' someone. I couldn't switch between feelings like that. If I am hopelessly in love I just want to bask in the glory of you, and if something comes between that for some reason it may make me 'clam up' and pine hopelesslyuntil the situation is better again...
Sunshine reads IEI's very well. A little positive attention goes a long way in such cases.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
<3 IEI's
COME TO PAPAAA
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
IEI-Fe 4w3
More than you realize.It's probably not even IEI-related, but me
I think this is where most of my problems with IEI's come from. We both kind of retreat and wait for the other person to make the first move when it comes to apologizing and then whoever does make the first move, its like wait, wtf...you waited this whole time, why did it have to be *me* to make the first move? You obviously don't care about me much...etc, etc. But i'm a master at disappearing and not talking to people for months so it's usually the IEI that has to reach out and I think they secretly hate me for it and hold it against me. But there are times I get extremely confrontational and want to argue and put everything on the table and *hate* the fact we can't just have a good arguement to clear everything. That's all I really want! Nothing is more frustrating than someone who keeps sweeping things under the rug and pretending things are fine when they're not. I tried to explain to this particular IEI that people *do* argue and that it's okay but my gosh the look of death comes over their face when even the hint of confrontation presents itself. It hurts me more when the issues keep getting put aside. The "retreats" only add fuel to the fire and piss me off even more and make me even more paranoid. I'd rather have a good argument than deal with that. I'm blabbling, who knows...you're a mysterious bunch.This is very accurate for me. If I'm hurt I prefer to withdraw more than anything as a protective mechanism for myself and the other person. I don't want to make matters worse than they already are, and I figure the other person probably needs their space as well.
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