Why duality is actually sort of awkward

[Pallas]

I randomly thought "wait, if the Id and Super-Ego functions are sort of cycled around within a quadra, doesn't that mean that someone if your quadra will have their Demonstrative on your PoLR? Wait, wouldn't you also have yours on theirs in that case?" Then I realized that that happens in the oft-praised duality. So, not only are you and your dual not much alike, it's probably the only intra-quadra relationship that has the potential to become actively strained. Your options are 1. Keep your demonstrative hidden away all the time or 2. Both of you use it and make things very, very awkward for one another. I think duality is probably still pretty good as far as intertype relations go, but it has that issue, which, say, mirror or activator don't.

[GuavaDrunk]

Nah, it can also mean that the ambient demonstrative is not only covering for the PoLR, but doing so in a way that doesn't hurt or bother, surprisingly, because the PoLR-owner can kind of tell on some level that the Demonstrative-or doesn't particularly *care* for that IE, nor expect anything to do with it from other people. That's how it tends to work out in practice ime.

[consentingadult]

I randomly thought "wait, if the Id and Super-Ego functions are sort of cycled around within a quadra, doesn't that mean that someone if your quadra will have their Demonstrative on your PoLR? Wait, wouldn't you also have yours on theirs in that case?" Then I realized that that happens in the oft-praised duality. So, not only are you and your dual not much alike, it's probably the only intra-quadra relationship that has the potential to become actively strained. Your options are 1. Keep your demonstrative hidden away all the time or 2. Both of you use it and make things very, very awkward for one another. I think duality is probably still pretty good as far as intertype relations go, but it has that issue, which, say, mirror or activator don't.

This is a non-issue. The Demonstrative function is typically used in response to someone else using the same function as their Creative. This situation does not happen in duality.

However, there is one function that can put off your dual, and that is the Mobilizing function, when used in neurotic proportions.

ETA: your Role can also be problematic, but by the time you use your Role a lot, you have bigger problems that need attending to than attracting your dual.

[Pallas]

The mobilizing and role are in quadra though... How would those be an issue?

[consentingadult]

The mobilizing and role are in quadra though... How would those be an issue?

The Mobilizing is in your quadra, your Role is not.

You have to note that both functions can be used in the extreme (i.e. neurotic), and as such can cause social problems.

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...-function.html
http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...-role-and.html

And about healthy manifestations of the Mobilizing:

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...stive-and.html

[Exodus]

This is a non-issue. The Demonstrative function is typically used in response to someone else using the same function as their Creative. This situation does not happen in duality.

However, there is one function that can put off your dual, and that is the Mobilizing function, when used in neurotic proportions.

ETA: your Role can also be problematic, but by the time you use your Role a lot, you have bigger problems that need attending to than attracting your dual.

I would generally agree with that, this is generally how conflicts in duality play out. Usually it's about letting go of the normal baggage and defense mechanisms that we tend to carry around in other relationships. We are often happy to let go of focusing on the Demonstrative function, since it's done compulsively more than anything.

(My view on the Role function is not quite so negative, but that's another story.)

[consentingadult]

(My view on the Role function is not quite so negative, but that's another story.)

Lets hear it!

[Exodus]

Lets hear it!

Well, the dual seeking function is not all good first of all. It's an area where people can easily become dependent on others or be manipulated by others to do things that aren't in their self-interest. I see the Role function as a useful defense mechanism that protects against this and makes people somewhat more self-sufficient in the 3-5 macrodomain. Aushra had this idea of "dualization" where, if you don't get along with who you're "supposed to" socionically, that means there is something wrong with you. I think this is vastly oversimplified and perhaps even downright insulting -- there are plenty of legitimate reasons not to get along with a dual. Sure, some of them may be down to neurosis but not all of them.

[Joy]

We like the way our dual uses their demonstrative. It makes us feel secure because they do it so willingly, but they don't make a big deal out of it, don't expect a response, and find it endearing that you're weak there.

[summerprincess]

This is a non-issue. The Demonstrative function is typically used in response to someone else using the same function as their Creative. This situation does not happen in duality.

However, there is one function that can put off your dual, and that is the Mobilizing function, when used in neurotic proportions.

ETA: your Role can also be problematic, but by the time you use your Role a lot, you have bigger problems that need attending to than attracting your dual.

I use a really high level of Ti for an IEI so is this some sort of problem then?

[Olimpia]

The use of the Demonstrative is not a problem in Duality (or in Mirage for that matter).
On the contrary, it is probably one of those aspects that make Mirage one of the best outer-Quadra relations.

Why? Because your Dual or Mirage partner is competent in the area of your greatest weakness, and will typically just take care of the issues deriving from it, without trying to "teach" you about it.
It is like having to lift a heavy load of bricks. You are struggling. Your Dual (or Mirage partner) would simply put the bricks on their own shoulders without a word, and you'd be relieved.
Whereas someone who has your PoLR as their first function, aka your Conflictor and Supervisor, will likely at first reprimand you for carrying the bricks incorrectly; and then when they carry them eventually for you, they will keep teaching you about how to carry them correctly, which drives you more or less nuts.

When it comes to your PoLR, it is actually more worrying and "awkward" when your partner is Ignoring it, like in Activity or with your Beneficiary.
Because, you still have the problems with your PoLR, but the other person won't acknowledge them as readily.
With the bricks analogy, it would be like your partner not noticing at first you are carrying those bricks, so you will carry them for longer than you'd like.
But once they decide to help you, it is usually more or less satisfying.

Your Mirror partner having your PoLR as their Role is also more "awkward", because they will be one of those people who notice the bricks faster, but not be able to help you that well with them.
It is more like they will take about half of your bricks on their shoulders somewhat begrudgingly, which is better than nothing, but still not ideal.

With someone who is your Identical, you both see each other carrying the same heavy bricks, and can sympathize with the other's pain.
You will trod along together, both carrying your loads and not being able to help, but it is a bit better being around someone who understands, at least.

Someone who has your PoLR as their HA, aka your Semi-Dual, will be eager to carry more of those bricks themselves, and talk with you about how they like doing it, and this will perplex you, or annoy you somewhat. Like your Mirror partner, they won't be able to really help you that much, and how they deal with it will be a bit more perplexing or annoying to you than if your Mirror handled the bricks.

Regarding the Mobilizing function, I don't see how "overusing" it would turn off your Dual.
As far as I have observed/experienced it, using the Mobilizing function a lot usually attracts people who have the specific IE as their Leading function, or at least in their Ego.

Regarding the Role function, using it too much can turn off your Dual, that is true. And, it might attract your Extinguishment partner to you.
I've found that the main attraction factor in Extinguishment is the Role function.

[Joy]

I totally dig my dual's mobilizing function. <3 Sometimes they go overboard with it because they want to stick to norms when using it, but they are open to feedback about the nuances of the situation and learn quickly.

[Rebelondeck]

Duality may seem awkward because one has to look beyond physical attraction as well as ones sense of superiority in ones own traits or those of people that one may admire. Settling for someone that you need rather than the ones that you desire may be a bitter pill to swallow. Awkwardness may diminish with age after a number of waves of cold reality have washed over you. Unfortunately, many are doomed to never see beyond their own egos - isn't there one running for president somewhere?


a.k.a I/O

[consentingadult]

I use a really high level of Ti for an IEI so is this some sort of problem then?

It depends: if you are using it amongst Betas, they'll probably think it's charming. But amongst Deltas you'll probably get rubbed the wrong way because using Ti a lot would, by definition, involve violating Te-related aspects, and your PoLR will be constantly hit, especially when you deal with LSEs and SLIs, who, having weak Fi, will not be careful with your personal sensitivities.

[Tigerfadder]

A reasoning I heard which I found very insightful is that the Demonstrative of your dual work as a mattress for your mobilizing element and give it freedom and rules.

[Beautiful sky]

If I didn't know about socionics duality I would just fall in love with someone who came over and noticed loose things around my apartment and promised to fix them and introduced me to tasty food and said to me that they would do certain things and I wouldn't have to worry about them. They would set up the technology at home for me to make things of the internet which I would have otherwise been unaware of doing. And he would have had a motor mouth and talked a lot and loved to show me his surroundings and what happens, where. I would have fallen in love with an LSE.

[Pallas]

If I didn't know about socionics duality I would just fall in love with someone who came over and noticed loose things around my apartment and promised to fix them and introduced me to tasty food and said to me that they would do certain things and I wouldn't have to worry about them. They would set up the technology at home for me to make things of the internet which I would have otherwise been unaware of doing. And he would have had a motor mouth and talked a lot and loved to show me his surroundings and what happens, where. I would have fallen in love with an LSE.

Wut

It's also pretty clear that you've found your dual the ILI, although he's a compulsive liar so good luck

[yeves]

I randomly thought "wait, if the Id and Super-Ego functions are sort of cycled around within a quadra, doesn't that mean that someone if your quadra will have their Demonstrative on your PoLR? Wait, wouldn't you also have yours on theirs in that case?" Then I realized that that happens in the oft-praised duality. So, not only are you and your dual not much alike, it's probably the only intra-quadra relationship that has the potential to become actively strained. Your options are 1. Keep your demonstrative hidden away all the time or 2. Both of you use it and make things very, very awkward for one another. I think duality is probably still pretty good as far as intertype relations go, but it has that issue, which, say, mirror or activator don't.

Isn't the Demonstrative function the one you use to protect your dual's PoLR? It's your supervisor, conflictor, and superego who are supposed to strain your polr, right?