I need someone to set the record straight for me on Fe vs Fi

[Muddy]

So around here people usually associate goodwill and kindness with Fi and maintaining a positive atmosphere with Fe, but aren't those kind of the same thing? By being kind and good-natured aren't you contributing to the atmosphere of the group?

I was reading the Delta section in the clock of the socion article by Gulenko and he writes, quote, "Then comes EII, the Humanist, who brings general human values that have always been and will be: kindness, and not the kind where you help black people in Africa, but directly help you neighbor or your friend and keep quiet about it."


So is Gulenko saying that the "helping black people in Africa" brand of ethics is Fe, while being a decent, kind, and pleasant person to be around is Fi? Other sources often attribute the care for the well-being of society with Fi and the immediate pleasantness of interaction with Fe. Which one is which?

[MisterNi]

So around here people usually associate goodwill and kindness with Fi and maintaining a positive atmosphere with Fe, but aren't those kind of the same thing? By being kind and good-natured aren't you contributing to the atmosphere of the group?

They're not the same because makes a person feel good about themselves while makes people feel good about their surroundings which in turn makes a person feel better, because they have no default internal state. Internal and external is the difference.

I was reading the Delta section in the clock of the socion article by Gulenko and he writes, quote, "Then comes EII, the Humanist, who brings general human values that have always been and will be: kindness, and not the kind where you help black people in Africa, but directly help you neighbor or your friend and keep quiet about it."

Gulenko sounds about right. Although you seem to be having a hard time understanding what he's saying.

So is Gulenko saying that the "helping black people in Africa" brand of ethics is Fe, while being a decent, kind, and pleasant person to be around is Fi? Other sources often attribute the care for the well-being of society with Fi and the immediate pleasantness of interaction with Fe. Which one is which?

Yes and both. Most descriptions of are weak and along with as a whole are overvalued in Western Socionics.

[Beautiful sky]

Truthfully helping people and being selfless is not type related as any type helps or can in their own way.

Isn't ESE helping a neighbor by doing their groceries or checking up on their health?

An SLE entrepreneur who has a coffee business donates 5% of proceeds to some cause or another.

This isn't type related.

Why would I be thought of as kind or generous? Well, from growing up and having poor friends, I always had a job that paid well and I wanted to share in that joy of having a nice meal with people in my company at the very least. These were my friends and as such the value was to maintain the relationship. The feelings it produces in me to not share and manage breaks my heart, produces empathy for others. Empathy isn't always good. It can be destructive too. Essentially, I "loving on" my friends.

How does this extend outwards? As I do have Fi+ in the same manner, humility, civility, kindness that I established in values with my immediate family same should be given to all of mankind. It breaks my heart when people don't treat each other with the same care that is the driving force why EII would found an organization for a certain cause.


I don't want to live in a bunk by myself with no company. So it's in the love of having relationships and in order to do so you have to share and get along.

Socionics is not about the object (object here is giving money) it's about the intentions, the extended reasons behind the actions towards the object.

[MisterNi]

You don't need to listen to Maritsa if you don't want to; it's not like this is the Church in Europe.

[Beautiful sky]

You don't need to listen to Maritsa if you don't want to; it's not like this is the Church in Europe.

You forgot to say that Fi also strives to make others feel bad about themselves as you have done about. Except that comes from maturity

[MisterNi]

You forgot to say that Fi also strives to make others feel bad about themselves as you have done about. Except that comes from maturity

Not many people like to talk about negativity in a consensual group setting. Do you think I like being "that guy" who brings up the potential downfalls to a supposed "brilliant!" idea? No, I don't, but I need to check my creativity and ideas with realism so we don't all fall off a cliff like defeated green girls.

[consentingadult]

Perhaps this adds something to your understanding of Fi and Fe:

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...ork-floor.html

[Beautiful sky]

Take a badly hurt EII in retrospect to me. This person can barely manage one or two relationship and gets very introverted and cold. Doesn't want to help anyone and snickeres at others right and left so much so that one can't even recognize that they are EII. Or a poor EII who can barely manage their own household. For these reasons not all have the means to be the social contributors. There for not every EII is going to be giving ect.

ESE that I know of give to causes to improve the external events too. Like giving to the zoo, natureconservancy,.

Maybe Fi is more human being tied. But then you have LSE who will fund Haiti disaster relief efforts.

[consentingadult]

But then you have LSE who will fund Haiti disaster relief efforts.

Somehow LSEs strike me more as one of the types that will conclude that sending money to Haiti is an expensive way to throw your money down the drain...

[Beautiful sky]

Somehow LSEs strike me more as one of the types that will conclude that sending money to Haiti is an expensive way to throw your money down the drain...

True but Jung explained this humanitarian tendencies in Te types

I asked my ESE sister "would you give money to a family member for food and how does this make you feel?"

She said "always give money for food" again I asked how it made her feel and after thinking about it she gave a very Fe response which it "it always feels good to give"

My response would have been personal, like "I (the "I") felt good about myself when I gave"

[consentingadult]

I once was asked by a beggar for some money to buy food, he said he was hungry. I said no, but instead offered to go to the nearest bakery with him and buy some food for him. He wasn't happy about that and walked away.

I too felt very good about myself :-)

[YXPR]

Types who have strong Fe also have strong Fi so they tend to do both anyway and that's why it gets confusing. However I think that gammas and deltas tend to value the "reality" of their own feelings way more than betas and alphas; and that may be why Fi valuers can appear as selfish/douchy, when Fe valuers can appear to be hypocrites.

I feel like Fi egos don't hesitate to let you know how they feel about you, when you hurt them or when you are annoying them whereas Fe egos won't say anything if they feel like it will have an undesired impact on their environment. Fi types will talk about their feelings for the only reason that they actually are their feelings. If they go to help people in Africa it's because they have that strong feeling inside that tell them that they truly want to do it. Fe types won't do something just because their heart tell them to. They will take into consideration what other people want, what they want for other people, the impact that their words/actions are going to have on the world (more true for beta NF i suppose) and on the mood of others (true for both alphas and betas feelers, even though betas may deeply want to actually have a negative impact on other people's mood if they feel like it's for the best).
It seems to me that Fi types don't think about all of that, or maybe they just don't give a fuck. It's also a consequence of the fact that Fe types value Ti and Fi types don't. However I don't think one can say that Fe types manipulate people bc there is no real calculation, it's still F, it's still a matter of what their guts tell them to do. Or if there is calculation it's unconscious. I know it's sounds weird and paradoxical but I really believe this to be true, maybe someone can explain it better than me.

In both cases empathy is very is strong. If you are a feeler then you are deeply impacted by other people's feelings and by your own as well. They difference lies in what you do with them.

When I was younger I used to laugh at people who talked about their feelings a lot, I found it to be stupid. On the other hand, I know for a fact that a lot Fi valuers who have been around me and my friends think that I'm mean and insensitive. They are not stupid and I'm far from being insensitive (not far enough at least).. My Ti is as weak as Fi doms' and my Fi is as strong as theirs. I wouldn't even say that Fi takes a bigger place in their life than it does in mine because it really doesn't, and I actually care about Fi just as much as they do. It's just that this function impact our lives differently.
It's like SFs from both sides are the same and NF from both sides are the same but that they were made to play different roles in society.

I realize this is not very clear but I don't know how to make it clearer. Tried.

[Sol]

to be pleasant person - Fi
to be "worthy" person - Fe

There is vive versa dependency - people like (Fi) when you are "worthy" (Fe) and find you "worthy" when they like you. There is no Fe without Fi, as there is no Te without Ti. It's like sides of one coin. That's why types with Fe in ego also have strong Fi.
The difference is what goes 1st for you as motivation, the other side works as background - you know about it, but think about your valued side mostly.

[Contra]

Types who have strong Fe also have strong Fi so they tend to do both anyway and that's why it gets confusing. However I think that gammas and deltas tend to value the "reality" of their own feelings way more than betas and alphas; and that may be why Fi valuers can appear as selfish/douchy, when Fe valuers can appear to be hypocrites.

I feel like Fi egos don't hesitate to let you know how they feel about you, when you hurt them or when you are annoying them whereas Fe egos won't say anything if they feel like it will have an undesired impact on their environment. Fi types will talk about their feelings for the only reason that they actually are their feelings. If they go to help people in Africa it's because they have that strong feeling inside that tell them that they truly want to do it. Fe types won't do something just because their heart tell them to. They will take into consideration what other people want, what they want for other people, the impact that their words/actions are going to have on the world (more true for beta NF i suppose) and on the mood of others (true for both alphas and betas feelers, even though betas may deeply want to actually have a negative impact on other people's mood if they feel like it's for the best).
It seems to me that Fi types don't think about all of that, or maybe they just don't give a fuck. It's also a consequence of the fact that Fe types value Ti and Fi types don't. However I don't think one can say that Fe types manipulate people bc there is no real calculation, it's still F, it's still a matter of what their guts tell them to do. Or if there is calculation it's unconscious. I know it's sounds weird and paradoxical but I really believe this to be true, maybe someone can explain it better than me.

In both cases empathy is very is strong. If you are a feeler then you are deeply impacted by other people's feelings and by your own as well. They difference lies in what you do with them.

When I was younger I used to laugh at people who talked about their feelings a lot, I found it to be stupid. On the other hand, I know for a fact that a lot Fi valuers who have been around me and my friends think that I'm mean and insensitive. They are not stupid and I'm far from being insensitive (not far enough at least).. My Ti is as weak as Fi doms' and my Fi is as strong as theirs. I wouldn't even say that Fi takes a bigger place in their life than it does in mine because it really doesn't, and I actually care about Fi just as much as they do. It's just that this function impact our lives differently.
It's like SFs from both sides are the same and NF from both sides are the same but that they were made to play different roles in society.

I realize this is not very clear but I don't know how to make it clearer. Tried.

i agree. This is really good. I think the supposed calculation in ethics is just a perception from the observer/one who is being acted upon because they can actively see that their mood or the environment/atmosphere is being manipulated. Naturally, they want to assume the person is doing it on purpose when in fact the action of the ethical type is just a function of how they 'feel'... but it does accomplish something they desire even if they aren't conscious of it. Maybe after the fact, the ethical type will assume they did it 'on purpose', but I think even logical types are guilty of that.

[Park]

I feel like Fi egos don't hesitate to let you know how they feel about you, when you hurt them or when you are annoying them whereas Fe egos won't say anything if they feel like it will have an undesired impact on their environment. Fi types will talk about their feelings for the only reason that they actually are their feelings. If they go to help people in Africa it's because they have that strong feeling inside that tell them that they truly want to do it. Fe types won't do something just because their heart tell them to. They will take into consideration what other people want, what they want for other people, the impact that their words/actions are going to have on the world (more true for beta NF i suppose) and on the mood of others (true for both alphas and betas feelers, even though betas may deeply want to actually have a negative impact on other people's mood if they feel like it's for the best).
It seems to me that Fi types don't think about all of that, or maybe they just don't give a fuck. It's also a consequence of the fact that Fe types value Ti and Fi types don't. However I don't think one can say that Fe types manipulate people bc there is no real calculation, it's still F, it's still a matter of what their guts tell them to do. Or if there is calculation it's unconscious. I know it's sounds weird and paradoxical but I really believe this to be true, maybe someone can explain it better than me.

Would you, then, agree that the following discussion is a good example of Fi vs Fe:



“...Well, I don't care whether his family's feelings are hurt or not, but if they are, they can take comfort from the extraordinary piety and stupidity, and generally speaking, uniformity of the coverage of the man's death. It is after all said, was said by Jesus of Nazareth to his followers, that they must expect to be mocked for their beliefs, because their beliefs will appear to many people to be ridiculous, if not worse than that, and that they are to take it for granted that they will be ridiculed. That's true, I think, of the most devout and serious and thoughtful Christian, but for a vulgar fraud and crook like Reverend Falwell it's an obligation to say what one thinks about him, or be left off the air and have people like yourselves broadcasting only piety, and that won't do...”

"...I'm not going to be conscripted into saying that it's my job when you invite me on to discuss this man, first to say how sorry I am for him and his family. That isn't what I feel. You, no doubt, as a Christian or whatever you are, require hypocrisy of people—I'm sorry, you're asking the wrong person..."

[Beautiful sky]

I can't agree with some of the points. For example I know ESE who will scream at the top of the lungs without care for the person and people around when they are arguing. They disrupt the environment. And I'm sure all of us restrain ourselves in public despite type.

[marooned]

wouldn't both Fi lead and Fe lead "tend to do what their heart tells them to"?

if F isn't in the first position, then it's not what's calling most of the shots?

[Park]

wouldn't both Fi lead and Fe lead "tend to do what their heart tells them to"?

It's just that their hearts tells them to do different things.

[Eliza Thomason]

I can't agree with some of the points. For example I know ESE who will scream at the top of the lungs without care for the person and people around when they are arguing. They disrupt the environment. And I'm sure all of us restrain ourselves in public despite type.

FWIW, the only person I ever observed screaming at the top of her lungs not caring who heard in public was my close EII friend. (I have the EIIs I know for sure divided up into 2 different subtype groups (not sure which is which) and she is in the other group from you. ) This EII is in a longtime Conflictor marraige that they are both committed to staying in, and boy have they had conflicts over the years. He typically deals with it by ignoring her a lot of the time and pretending the conflicts don't exist, and she does the same at times - I believe particularly to give him back what he gives her so he knows how it feels. Other times, she takes advantage of the fact that he really cares how he looks to complete strangers and also neighbors and would prefer she only show a positive face in public, and she takes offense that a stranger means more than her. So sometimes that's when she really rips at him and lets him have it, clearly letting all hear exactly what he is doing that is driving her nuts...This has been at a public beach park when my son and I were there with her family, and also at home in their own neighborhood - he walks out of the house in order to ignore her as conflict starts, and she is not having him decide the conversation is over and her words don't matter - no, she is following him outside letting the whole neighborhood know exactly why she is furious...

So as to that EII doing what is basically out of character for an EII -- its because her immediate family life is everything to her, and her husband completely ignoring her puts that in jeopardy, and she feels powerless (she was, in so many ways) and the extreme situation made her do what she had to do about her situation.

ESEs I know are good in public (and normal ESEs I know are good in public AND private). Even my Anger-management-client NPD ex who was ESE could control his anger in public, where he preferred to be seen as Mr.Nice Guy and slipped only very rarely in public, and when he did he surprised everyone who never dreamed he had that in him. I remember seeing looks of shock and confusion, and I'm thinking that they only witnessed a smallest fraction of his fury.. And I think he was expressing NPD anger, not ESE anger, frankly.

Also the non-NPD ESEs I know who are normal - I have NEVER seen them lose it in public, and there are some I have known long.

I want to say that this EII friend has been very hard at study and they have been getting along really well for some months, really over a year, and I am so glad, since I pray for them all the time. She prays too, and I think God gives them the graces they need to keep this commitment, and that is a LOT of grace they need...

So, I am just sharing these Fi Fe public anger expressions as examples of my own experience. I don't know if its helpful.

(P.S. SEEs aren't averse to public anger displays - and that comes from Fi.. so, maybe Fi anger is louder, more dramatic, than Fe anger? Because its from a personal offense, and comes from the heart?? )

[Beautiful sky]

I got crazy upset with Ashton on cam but he was vicious.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Fe is kindness (but also manipulation- it is the idea that you catch more flies with honey than with shit), Fi is emotional honesty period. "I like that" or "I don't like that." Feelings of repulsion and dislike. Fi valuers are innately more sadistic and evil than Fe people. Jeffrey Dahmer was a Fi-ego serial killer. I think the 'humanitarian' label was like leftover MBTI junk or something. Te/Fi is often snobby, condescending and brutal. Fe/Ti gets criticized for being too soft and Disney like (which it is).

I hope that helps. And if anybody disagrees with me, they are wrong! Cuz I'm pretty confident that's how it is.

[Beautiful sky]

Fe is kindness (but also manipulation- it is the idea that you catch more flies with honey than with shit), Fi is emotional honesty period. "I like that" or "I don't like that." Feelings of repulsion and dislike. Fi valuers are innately more sadistic and evil than Fe people. Jeffrey Dahmer was a Fi-ego serial killer. I think the 'humanitarian' label was like leftover MBTI junk or something. Te/Fi is often snobby, condescending and brutal. Fe/Ti gets criticized for being too soft and Disney like (which it is).

I hope that helps. And if anybody disagrees with me, they are wrong! Cuz I'm pretty confident that's how it is.

I VI Jeffrey as SLE. This is the last time I'm typing a brutal killer thanks. I love you

This is not a face of an EII

[marooned]

Fi valuers are innately more sadistic and evil than Fe people.

And if anybody disagrees with me, they are wrong! Cuz I'm pretty confident that's how it is.

*disagrees*

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well, Mr. Rogers was a real life bad ass who had the public persona mask (ie: not real) of some soft goody goody. Kinda like Oprah. Also he sorta reminds me of Bill Gates, has this soft nerdy outside but inside he is a condescending asshole.

Morgan Freeman seems like genuinely soft/nice both inside and out though. The other guy I have no idea who he is, but he looks like a pervert.

[darya]

True but Jung explained this humanitarian tendencies in Te types

I asked my ESE sister "would you give money to a family member for food and how does this make you feel?"

She said "always give money for food" again I asked how it made her feel and after thinking about it she gave a very Fe response which it "it always feels good to give"

My response would have been personal, like "I (the "I") felt good about myself when I gave"

When I give money to beggars, I don't think "it feels good to give", but more like "I hope I made their day better". Like literally "this beggar looks particularly sad, I have to do something to make him not sad anymore" lol.

[maniac]

Idc about beggars

[consentingadult]

I feel like Fi egos don't hesitate to let you know how they feel about you, when you hurt them or when you are annoying them whereas Fe egos won't say anything if they feel like it will have an undesired impact on their environment.

I do not quite agree with this. In general I think Fi egos will NOT verbally express their opinion about you (unless intermediate intervention is required), but an Fe ego such as yourself will obviously pick up the vibe anyway. Persons with weak Fi/Fe will typically NOT pick up the value judgement an Fi ego, ime. And obviously there are situations where Fi egos will speak their mind, such as Park showed in that video with Hutchins.

Perhaps situational circumstances also play a role and Fi/Fe egos feel safe expression their emotions when they're is a supportive (quadra) environment, and keep their feelings to themselves when they stand alone.

Some people have talked about people getting emotional at the top of their lungs. This is not type related. Any type can burst out in a narcissistic temper tantrum ;-)

[shakealittle]

I hear Fi ppl are all like/dislike but I never really can tell how they feel about me and armed with socionics and everything, I try to discern this and I can't. Not really. I rely on body language usually. So I want to know how Te people, who they are compatible with, read them? How do Fi people send cues for Te to pick up on to know the state of a feeling/relationship?

[consentingadult]

I hear Fi ppl are all like/dislike but I never really can tell how they feel about me and armed with socionics and everything, I try to discern this and I can't. Not really. I rely on body language usually. So I want to know how Te people, who they are compatible with, read them? How do Fi people send cues for Te to pick up on to know the state of a feeling/relationship?

I'm afraid you can't read them. I don't know about other types, but the only type I cannot read is SLI, and I'm IEE! This is also what we frequently read in the theory: that of all types, our duals are often the most difficult to read, as if they don't send out non-verbal signals. It is only through behavior, or explicit verbal expression, that sometimes things might become clear.

Nowadays, after ten years of experience with Socionics, I do know how to recognize SLIs, but not by seeing what is there, but by seeing what isn't. Took me a long time to master this, and even nowadays it's not easy, because there is always that feeling of being uncertain about it.

[Beautiful sky]

When I give money to beggars, I don't think "it feels good to give", but more like "I hope I made their day better". Like literally "this beggar looks particularly sad, I have to do something to make him not sad anymore" lol.

Still doesn't explain your feelings

[maniac]

to be pleasant person - Fi
to be "worthy" person - Fe

There is vive versa dependency - people like (Fi) when you are "worthy" (Fe) and find you "worthy" when they like you. There is no Fe without Fi, as there is no Te without Ti. It's like sides of one coin. That's why types with Fe in ego also have strong Fi.
The difference is what goes 1st for you as motivation, the other side works as background - you know about it, but think about your valued side mostly.

what does worthy person mean?

[Sol]

what does worthy person mean?

which good fits to social standards

[maniac]

which good fits to social standards

isnt being pleasant fitting to social standards

[Aylen]

True but Jung explained this humanitarian tendencies in Te types

I asked my ESE sister "would you give money to a family member for food and how does this make you feel?"

She said "always give money for food" again I asked how it made her feel and after thinking about it she gave a very Fe response which it "it always feels good to give"

My response would have been personal, like "I (the "I") felt good about myself when I gave"

When I give money to beggars, I don't think "it feels good to give", but more like "I hope I made their day better". Like literally "this beggar looks particularly sad, I have to do something to make him not sad anymore" lol.

I feel more like Darya. I see the homeless and all I want to do is help them. I want to make their lives better in some small way. I don't really walk away from it feeling good about myself. I walk away from it feeling grateful for what I have and that I am able to give. I also hope that they feel like life gave them a little break from the struggle. I usually end up talking to them for a bit and taking their words to heart, whatever they may be. I still think about some homeless people I feel I bonded with years ago. I smile when I think about our interactions and how we seemed to always walk away from them feeling better about the world, in general.

When I give gifts to friends and family I do kind of feel good just by the act of giving but that is very different from the feelings I get from the homeless. I live a life that values some sort of karma, not as retribution or reward exactly. It's just that what you give always comes back to you in some form, whether good or bad. Energy is funny like that. The universe tends to balance the scales one way or another.

I should add that sometimes shopping gets me high. I feel very open and expansive when I buy stuff for my friends and family. It is like an energy exchange.

[Beautiful sky]

I hear Fi ppl are all like/dislike but I never really can tell how they feel about me and armed with socionics and everything, I try to discern this and I can't. Not really. I rely on body language usually. So I want to know how Te people who they are compatible with, read them? How do Fi people send cues for Te to pick up on to know the state of a feeling/relationship?

I just tell LSE that I love them.

Edit: you will know when an EII loves you they won't ignore you. They will want to be in your company. You can tell when she smiles softly and stands close. Then she wants to be touched.

[Sol]

isnt being pleasant fitting to social standards

it is. as was said above about a coin

[darya]

Still doesn't explain your feelings

My feelings are that sadness in general and sad people/animals make me severely uncomfortable and sad in return, so I try to un-sad them it's really not anymore complicated than that - i don't consider myself a giving person in general, nor do i feel proud or good about myself when I give something, because honestly I'm not any sort of role model of goodness and i dont feel the need to be. I only give when I feel like it and then the other persons happyness is enough (i couldnt care less about gratitude) -it translates into my own.

[Beautiful sky]

My feelings are that sadness in general and sad people/animals make me severely uncomfortable and sad in return, so I try to un-sad them it's really not anymore complicated than that - i don't consider myself a giving person in general, nor do i feel proud or good about myself when I give something, because honestly I'm not any sort of role model of goodness and i dont feel the need to be. I only give when I feel like it and then the other persons happyness is enough (i couldnt care less about gratitude) -it translates into my own.

That's the same with my EIE friend. She will never see the opportunity to help. But compared to me when I cat sat for her I saw how bare her couches were and I gave her two blue and cream colored pillows to accent them I told her "these will make your couch comfortable and warm." She thanked me, was very polite but not empathetic in the same manner as I am. When I told her I had to walk to her house in monsoon like rain for a week twice a day to care for her kitties she gave no response. No warmth and said nothing. I would have expected something like a hug and "Oh. I'm so sorry, Maritsa. I didn't know." But she is a nice person in her own way.

Later on she asked me if I wanted the pillows back. I thought that was so strange because I didn't give them with that intention, why would I or anyone do that. I gave them because it would make her, her husband, her home, her friends, family, company, inviting and comfortable.

Idle Delta NF are very sympathetic and expressive in the "it's not my problem" more like "I feel so bad for you"

[Beautiful sky]

@Starfall I would be interested in reading about your response and finding out if your sister is like me

[Beautiful sky]

I feel more like Darya. I see the homeless and all I want to do is help them. I want to make their lives better in some small way. I don't really walk away from it feeling good about myself. I walk away from it feeling grateful for what I have and that I am able to give. I also hope that they feel like life gave them a little break from the struggle. I usually end up talking to them for a bit and taking their words to heart, whatever they may be. I still think about some homeless people I feel I bonded with years ago. I smile when I think about our interactions and how we seemed to always walk away from them feeling better about the world, in general.

When I give gifts to friends and family I do kind of feel good just by the act of giving but that is very different from the feelings I get from the homeless. I live a life that values some sort of karma, not as retribution or reward exactly. It's just that what you give always comes back to you in some form, whether good or bad. Energy is funny like that. The universe tends to balance the scales one way or another.

I should add that sometimes shopping gets me high. I feel very open and expansive when I buy stuff for my friends and family. It is like an energy exchange.

Even when Delta NF can not help we turn to each other and express our sympathies We say "I feel so bad about him. Look at his condition. What can be done?" I'm feeling so much pain from what I'm seeing." Because of values "no one human should be in that condition"