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Thread: Clubs: Light vs Heavy

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Default Clubs: Light vs Heavy

    Socionic Glossary

    Clubs or cognitive attitudes are : NT, ST, SF, and NF. According to that glossary, there are heavy and light pairs for each club.

    Heavy : Alpha NT, Beta ST, Gamma SF, Delta NF.

    Light : Alpha SF, Beta NF, Gamma NT, Delta ST.

    Heavy means Static and Light means Dynamic.

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    Why use words heavy and light when you can simply talk about dynamic and static rationals, humanitarians, and so on...
    Intuition

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jas05
    Why use words heavy and light when you can simply talk about dynamic and static rationals, humanitarians, and so on...
    Because that's on the context of clubs.

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    but we can still say "static NFs" vs "dynamic NFs".
    imo, the heavy/light thing is ...extraneous.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    but we can still say "static NFs" vs "dynamic NFs".
    imo, the heavy/light thing is ...extraneous.
    As we could say "Delta NF" vs "Beta NF", to explain club pairs on the context of quadras...

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    if heavy/light refers to the emotional/spiritual ambiance of these clubs I like them way better than static/dynamic (which I find is a stumbling block when explaining socionics things to my friends). I can't see them being able to be used for static/dynamic as they are generally applied in socionics though.

    So to recap (all two sentences of my post )

    heavy/light applied to clubs = good/better than static/dynamic
    heavy/light applied to functions/types = not so good (although if they could be used interchangably (which I don't think they can) the heavy/light thing would work much better for me)



    LOL the recap was as big as the original post

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    Default Clubs: Light vs Heavy

    While looking at the small groups page on wikisocion, I noticed each of the four (ST, NF, SF, NT) clubs are further divided into two subgroups: light and heavy. It seems that the heavy vs light ST/SFs are Se-ego vs Si-ego, whereas heavy vs light NT/NFs are Ne-ego vs Ni-ego. So static types are the heavy members of their clubs while dynamic types are light members.

    After coming up empty in google searches, I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into what this particular "light vs heavy" dichotomy is meant to represent or make more discernible. Is it a matter of simply understanding the differences between statics and dynamics and extrapolating trends into our best guesses for what the author of those pages meant by light and heavy, or more a matter of something specific about the way the two types interact in club settings or with the information generally associated with their respective clubs? Anybody know where the idea even comes from?

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    I don't think I've looked at this before...this is a previous thread on the subject: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...y-club-members

    (some more info):

    Managers - a group of four sociotypes most effective in the material production sphere. In the formula management sociotypes necessarily contain developed sensory functions and logic.
    For heavy managers - those who behave consistently in extreme situations, and have a tendency to strong-arm tactics are Zhukov and Maxim Gorky. Light managers - Shtirlits and Gabin - much less resistance to stress and feel worse in the command-hierarchical systems.

    Scientist - a group of four sociotypes most effective in research activities. The formula sayentistskogo sociotypes must include functions of intuition and logic.
    Heavy Scientist - Don Quixote and Robespierre - strong in fundamental, difficult to lift scientific problems. Light Scientist - Jack and Balzac - better manifest themselves in the mobile approaches to address specific short-term goals.

    The humanities - a group of four sociotypes most effective in the field of culture, art, religion, psychology, and other humanities. Formula humanitarian sociotypes includes the obligatory function of ethics and intuition.
    Heavy humanities - Huxley and Dostoevsky - strong where you want get to the underlying problems of the individual. Light humanities - Hamlet and Yesenin - well reflect the surface, the current problem of mass psychology.

    Social - a group of four sociotypes most effective in the social sector (trade, supply, services, leisure, health, etc.) in the formula must include social ethics and sensory function.
    Heavy socialists - Napoleon and Dreiser - are better suited to the organization of life in difficult and adverse conditions of society.
    Light socialists - Hugo and Dumas - debug communication in a positive, comfortable society.
    (from here): http://socionik.com.ua/spravochnik.htm

    1 Technical and administrative setting

    It includes sensory-logical and logical-sensory sotsiotipy that bring the greatest benefit to the formal governance structures, as well as in the field of technology and material production.

    They are divided into two groups - heavy and light managers.

    Heavy managers (sotsiotipy Marshal and Inspector) specialize in force ("manual"), and centralized management. Light managers (sotsiotipy Master and Administrator) specialize in geographically distributed and autonomous control.

    2 Socio-communicative setting

    In this setting include sensory-ethical and ethical-sensory types that are most effective in the field of distribution and social communication (trade, supply, maintenance, health, food, social security, entertainment, etc.).

    Installing naturally divided into two subgroups - for heavy and light socials.

    Heavy socialists (sotsiotipy politician and the Guardian) are more popular in the so-called "heavy" society. Light socialists (Mediator and enthusiasts) will find their application in the "lightweight" society. It is a state of society where there is strong competition, there is a significant gap between the rich and poor, people have little interest in politics. Heavy socialists (politician and the Custodian), on the contrary, are more effective in a society with sharp contradictions (class, ethnic, gender, etc.), with a large gap between rich and poor, with frequent elections and political hype.

    3 Humanities and art installation

    By installing this belong intuitive ethical and ethical-intuitive types that are designed to work with the ideal side of human culture - spirituality, philosophy, ideology, religion, literature and the arts, humanities, education, personality development, psychological help.

    Heavy humanities (Counsellor and Humanist) work better with the fundamentals, be aware, but very inert mental health problems and prejudices. On their shoulders rests the "heavy" humanitarian work on tolerance and debugging relations with "dissidents."

    Light humanities (Lyric and Mentor) work better with dynamic, changeable psychological states, which tend to be rooted in the subconscious mind, and that part of the psyche that is susceptible to suggestion. They are better able to cope with extreme events and rallying people on the confrontation of alien values.

    4 The research setting

    It is also commonly called sayentistskoy (from the English «science» - science).

    By Scientist are intuitive-logical and logical-intuitive types, whose mission is to research and theoretical and experimental study of the world objective, reproducible methods.

    Heavy Scientist (Seeker and Analyst) - is the best researchers of fundamental scientific problems. Fundamental research and development, as we know, do not give a quick financial return. Their main cognitive stimulation - curiosity.

    Light Scientist (Senior and Entrepreneur) - is applied scientists. Applied science is able to pay for themselves. They are driven by incentive beneficial use of scientific discoveries and inventions.
    (from here): http://e2l.org/node/336

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    bolong's Avatar
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    A heavy club is more useful in self-defense.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    it's more commonly called Static/Dynamic. i like the Light/Heavy terms, though. they speak adequately to the imagination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I don't think I've looked at this before...this is a previous thread on the subject: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...y-club-members

    (some more info):



    (from here): http://socionik.com.ua/spravochnik.htm



    (from here): http://e2l.org/node/336
    Thanks a lot for the info.


    Quote Originally Posted by blood moon View Post
    A heavy club is more useful in self-defense.
    Heheh... What a perfectly pithy summary of the above blurbs. Though, I guess one should also consider the possibility of being too heavy to be useful. Obesity is very problematic and much too big of a problem to simply be swept under the rug.


    Quote Originally Posted by lecter View Post
    it's more commonly called Static/Dynamic. i like the Light/Heavy terms, though. they speak adequately to the imagination.
    Yeah, makes more sense now. However, within the confines of clubs based on these descriptions and those of the ways opposing quadras generally interact with and perceive one another and just the nature of the evolution of ideas and practices, it seems as if there would be a constant ebbing and flowing between the two subsets of each club, such that an endless loop of action and reaction (or formation and reformation) would be perhaps an (or the) integral part of their interaction. Light/heavy doesn't really conjure images of pseudo-opposing forces necessarily undermining each other (the nature of relations of extinguishment) as much as it seems to validate some covert superiority/inferiority complex (depending on who came up with these titles). But maybe I'm splitting hairs.

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    @lecter, it seems this conversation already occured in the thread Subteigh posted, so let's all just carry on like this never happened. Unless, anyone finds they have a real need/desire to bring it back up, so we can watch a live demonstration of the ways light/heavy club members interact.

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    How do NFs function in technical 'ST' jobs etc I see a lot more crossing over than socionics would apparently like.

    Edit: Eh probably not very well, I know an ENFp in charge of a technical team who doesn't really know the job, an ESFp who does better - seems to have a better grasp of the immediate problem - both use members of their team to compensate for their lack of knowledge and specific application.
    Last edited by Words; 10-06-2014 at 07:45 AM.

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