ENTj-ISFj duality: examples of LIE-ESI couples

[Expat]

Here's a nice example of non-romantic, slowly developing duality at a place of work.

There is this 50-something ISFj woman working as an administrative clerk where I work, in the same open-floor space. When I first started working there, I didn't pay much attention to her, to be honest: she is very quiet, she's not attractive, and she seemed a bit dull and boring. She also seemed to be too bureaucratic for my taste.

Yet, she never bothered me with that, on the contrary. I am a sort of technical consultant/project manager/whatever. I am in charge of making technical evaluations and answering questions, and I am also supposed to give my assent to technical projects by answering questions in some very boring software. The ISFj woman keeps reminding me of the projects still to be done: "don't forget that one" or "this one should be filled up by tomorrow". Sometimes, I know that I haven't done them yet because some info is still missing, or a decision has to be made, and I say, "no, those can wait" or "this one hasn't been decided yet". We never seem to annoy each other: the ones she reminds me of are usually indeed important, and she is reassured when I tell her that some aren't important. I never think she's nagging me, unlike the ISTp guy, who once called me and said "hey, I need this information from you, because the 'old woman' is kicking my ass" since he wasn't moving to get something going.

We very seldom talk about non-work issues, but when she seems depressed I seem to manage to always say the right thing to get her happier (something I suck on with most people). The same people who annoy me seem to annoy her as well. I never have anything to do with her out of work, but at work we seem to complement each other and never seem to get into misunderstandings.

[Jarno]

great to see duality work like this.

too bad not everyone who is in a duality situation know's how to appreciate this slightly rare event. like the person in this story also doesn't.

[Expat]

like the person in this story also doesn't.

Who said I don't appreciate it? As for her, I'm not sure what she thinks but I suppose she does appreciate the easy way we work together.

[Jarno]

oke, well the absence of the information made me think that.

Good to hear i'm wrong

[Expat]

oke, well the absence of the information made me think that.

I thought that the appreciation was clear from the way I wrote it, and from the very fact that I wrote it.

[UDP]

bomb


Anyway, I understand the nature of the post. Sounds very Gamma.

[Expat]

bomb


Anyway, I understand the nature of the post. Sounds very Gamma.

Yeah. And that makes one think, doesn't it?

[FDG]

A question: when I work with ISFjs they do the same with me, but I feel like it is a denial of trust towards me. I feel like they are saying "I know you won't do it so I have to remind you". How doesn't it feel like this to you? I admit that my defensivness could be because effectively if they didn't remind me, I might forget about the work.

[Expat]

A question: when I work with ISFjs they do the same with me, but I feel like it is a denial of trust towards me. I feel like they are saying "I know you won't do it so I have to remind you". How doesn't it feel like this to you?

Because she manages to only remind me of things that I also agree that should be done right now, only I'm not doing it . I don't see it as a denial of trust because, as I said, if I point out, "yes I know, but I really can't do it now because something hasn't been decided yet", she accepts it immediately. And she know that if she did say, "yes but this bit here does need to be done now, and it can be done", I will say "ah ok, that bit I can do".

I think it goes like this:

She looks at me and thinks, "I know he wants to do it, but he's now distracted, he needs reminding"
I look at her and think, "She's worried about the job being done on time, she needs reassuring that what can be done is being done".

I admit that my defensivness could be because effectively if they didn't remind me, I might forget about the work.

I would only get defensive if she'd say, "you don't want to do it, but it has to be done, and if I didn't remind you would never do it!"

[Exodus]

The same people who annoy me seem to annoy her as well.

This is one thing I've noticed: complementary relationships. Obviously intra- and opposite quadra relationships with the same people are similar for duals (though more than you would expect), but in the adjacent quadras as well. For instance, benefaction and supervision. That only leaves Look-a-like and Illusionary, and those are fairly similar too.

[Expat]

Another example of this duality - -

[ScarlettLux]

I would think that picture is more of an ENFj + ISTj example of Duality.

[Khamelion]

I would think that picture is more of an ENFj + ISTj example of Duality.

does he mean the picture, or the actual people in the picture though

[Expat]

That's an interesting question and it tells more about what you are actually seeing - is that ENFj-ISTj or ENTj-ISFj? Why?

[FDG]

I would think that picture is more of an ENFj + ISTj example of Duality.

I think he meant the Knight to be ENTj and the princess to be ISFj. If the roles are reversed, then it could be yours.

[Expat]

I think he meant the Knight to be ENTj and the princess to be ISFj. If the roles are reversed, then it could be yours.

Yes. That's one thing.

(of course, being a successful medieval knight in terms of military prowess is certainly more an ISTj than ENTj thing).

[Khamelion]

I think he meant the Knight to be ENTj and the princess to be ISFj. If the roles are reversed, then it could be yours.

Yes. That's one thing.

(of course, being a successful medieval knight in terms of military prowess is certainly more an ISTj than ENTj thing).

Truuuue.

Just from the FEELING of the picture, you could gather that they could be any number of dual pairs.

ESTp knight, INFp princess
ENTj knight, ISFj princess
ISTj knight, ENFj princess
INTj knight, ESFj princess

But thinking about the reality of the picture, it could be any type pair what-so-ever

[ScarlettLux]

Any type pair? Nahh... I don't think so.

[Khamelion]

Any type pair? Nahh... I don't think so.

Pretty close-minded. Use your imagination and you'll realize I'm right.

[Expat]

ESTp knight, INFp princess

Nah. No ESTp vibe from that knight.

[ScarlettLux]

ESTp knight, INFp princess

Nah. No ESTp vibe from that knight.

See, Clover =P I'm not really being close-minded.. I just think that the picture would be much more suitable to SOME duality pairs than others.

[Expat]

My reasons for saying ENTj - ISFj --

The knight is showing devotion and yes, well, a bit of -- voluntary submission. Victimhood. The princess is the one with more of the two - that's the thing to keep in mind. The knight acknowledges that voluntarily as long as she demonstrates her sincere appreciation for the knight - . Yes the whole "public ritual" aspect of the scene could also be interpreted as but I chose to take the princess's understated gestures and expression as a sign that it's more . Presumably the knight did some real service for the princess - - which is why she's confirming the situation between them.

Of course it all depends on what they are really thinking. I chose to look at the picture with sort of Victorian Fi eyes.

[stefana]

Presumably the knight did some real service for the princess - -

...

Damn right he did! That's some Victorian euphemism.

(joking!)

[Expat]

Damn right he did! That's some Victorian euphemism.

Ah well, that would be hardly -- or would it?

[stefana]

LoL ... no, not .

[Expat]

That's more like ESTp-INFp:

[FDG]

Presumably the knight did some real service for the princess - -

...

Damn right he did! That's some Victorian euphemism.

(joking!)

ahahahah you dirty girl

[Khamelion]

i stand by what i said


just because expat said he doesn't think so doesn't make him right or wrong. he's just a person too. he can be wrong. or right.

[ScarlettLux]

You can be wrong or right too! But apparently, you are more than a person ... "you'll see that I'm right" .. quoted from above

[Khamelion]

You can be wrong or right too! But apparently, you are more than a person ... "you'll see that I'm right" .. quoted from above

naw im a person, and clearly you didn't see that i was right to each his own, or her own


i understand what you guys mean, how it doesn't fit. im just looking at it differently...very generally. its a problem i have

[Joy]

here's an ENTj/ISFj couple talking to their ESFp friend

[Joy]

heh

[Expat]

just because expat said he doesn't think so doesn't make him right or wrong. he's just a person too. he can be wrong. or right.

Of course

[Expat]

Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward

[Slacker]

That's interesting. My mom used to be an actress, and she was always cast in roles that were "Joanne Woodward" roles, whatever those were, because people thought she looked and acted just like her.

[Expat]

If you look at recent videos of her, especially when interviewed about plays she directs, EJ temperament and Te are very obvious, although she is (obviously) very good at Fe (or at being emotion-creating) on such occasions. ESTj is possible, but I thought of this because both of them have been very close friends of Gore Vidal for decades, and I have no doubt that Vidal is an INTp. So, everything fits.

[Dioklecian]

She could be ESFJ IMO.

[Forest-Dragon]

Her expression looks pretty ENTj to me

[discojoe]

She looks like Joy. Her expression and the look in her eyes do.

Yeah, and the very slight tensing of the lips. It's strikingly like Joy, minus the makeup (which I hate on girls most of the time).

[Expat]

@Slacker Mom

Would you watch a video of an interview with Joanne Woodward, when already a bit older, and say whether she somehow comes across like your mother at the same age?

It's not available in YouTube, but you can go here:

http://www.charlierose.com/search/

And search either for the date - 04/16/1997 - or with her name.

You don't have to buy it, if you click on the small screen directly you can watch it.