Some possible famous/celebrity LIEs-ENTjs (reboot)

[Expat]

Themistocles, Athenian politician, 6th-5th century BC (a hunch)






Gaius Julius Caesar the Dictator (but perhaps ESTp)





Augustus, first Roman Emperor






Julian "the Apostate", Roman Emperor 361-363 (perhaps ENFj but I doubt it)






Grigori Potemkin, Russian statesman, Catherine the Great's "buddy"





Prince Albert, Queen Victoria's husband

[Expat]

T. E. Lawrence "of Arabia" (that or INTp, I can't decide)





Benjamin Disraeli, British prime minister and author (a hunch)

[Expat]

Alexander Hamilton





Sam Houston, President of the Republic of Texas (another hunch - perhaps ESTj)

[Expat]

Margareth Thatcher, British prime minister (perhaps ESTj but I doubt it)







Tony Blair, British prime minister







Yulia Tymoshenko, Ukrainian oligarch and politician





Junichiro Koizumi, former Japanese PM

[Exodus]

T. E. Lawrence "of Arabia" (that or INTp, I can't decide)

Seemed more ENFj to me, although ENTj seems plausible. Definitely not introverted.

Lawrence re-wrote Seven Pillars of Wisdom three times; once "blind," after he lost the manuscript while changing trains. As to the truth of the book's narrative, with Lawrence it is always difficult to untangle reality from mythology; the man himself seemed to enjoy mingling fact and fiction. His complex relation with himself results in passages which alternately belittle his accomplishments and influence, and expand on his role in the revolt. Seven Pillars is a fascinating work as autobiography, as study of history, as psychology.

The accusation that Lawrence repeatedly exaggerated his feats has been a persistent theme among commentators. The list of his alleged "embellishments" in Seven Pillars is long, though many such allegations have been disproved with time, most definitively in Jeremy Wilson's authorized biography, Lawrence of Arabia, based solely on contemporaneous documentation of Lawrence's life and deeds. However, some exaggerations by him are certain: for example, his supposed crossing of the Sinai in two days, which actually took him three days, and his alleged number of battle wounds, which in reality were few. Other exaggerations by him are therefore also possible.

It is not disputed that Lawrence was present during the Arab Revolt. However, the claim that he was one of the leading lights, and indeed the inspiration, has been questioned — particularly as the main basis for this belief is his own book. The Germans commissioned a 12-volume report covering all aspects of the Arab Revolt. Lawrence is not mentioned at all. Still, the Arabs themselves evidently believe that he was influential.

The tendency to exaggeration seems more characteristic of ENFjs, no?

His Se HA is pretty obvious. He died while motorcycling, for instance.

An amazing writer, by the way.

[Expat]

David Stockman, Reagan's Budget Director, 1981-85





Milton Friedman, economist

[Expat]

Seemed more ENFj to me, although ENTj seems plausible. Definitely not introverted.

He went through periods in his life - long periods - where he adopted a kind of IP behavior, which is also consistent with EJs at some points. That is why I have difficulty choosing.

The tendency to exaggeration seems more characteristic of ENFjs, no?

I don't think Fe dominance is consistent with his life, Fe role or PoLR is.

His Se HA is pretty obvious. He died while motorcycling, for instance.

His valueing Se over Si is pretty obvious; not necessarily having Se as 6th function or HA. His love of fast vehicles as a means of transportation - not just as sport - is consistent with ENTj.

[Expat]

Thomas Sowell, US economist






Robert Conquest, British historian (possibly ESTj or INTp -- all I'm sure is that all he writes overflows with Te)

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Jeremy Paxman, British Presenter of a topical news show called Newsnight.

[Expat]

Yeah, good one. I think you're probably right.


Helen Mirren - an EJ in my opinion, and makes both a Gamma and logical impression.

[Expat]

Ah, whatever. I'll just include him --


[s:8c73975cb4]Richard Nixon, US President[/s:8c73975cb4]




This is my major dispute with the socionics "establishment" -- I think Nixon was ENTj, and "they" say he was ISFj. Well I'm not so sure myself, but I still think he was ENTj -- EJ rather than IJ, Si rather than Ne PoLR, emotion-creating rather than construct-creating, Fe role rather than as 7th function. However, he did use a lot of Fi when he spoke, and his Se seemed stronger than for most ENTjs, I concede that.

[aestrivex]

Nixon as ENTj makes very little sense to me, for most of the reasons commonly used to describe him as ISFj.

[Expat]

Nixon as ENTj makes very little sense to me, for most of the reasons commonly used to describe him as ISFj.

Yes, and these "common reasons" only look at his presidency and ignore the whole of his life before and after it.

[Dioklecian]

I disagree about Caesar and Augustus.

[Expat]

Fine Dio, which types do you think they were then? At least we agree on ISTp for Tiberius.

[Expat]

Virginia Postrel, author of The Future and its Enemies (possibly ESTj but I don't think so)

[Dioklecian]

Nixon seems ISFJ to me. He seems to be very forward (Se) in interactions.

Ah, whatever. I'll just include him --


Richard Nixon, US President




This is my major dispute with the socionics "establishment" -- I think Nixon was ENTj, and "they" say he was ISFj. Well I'm not so sure myself, but I still think he was ENTj -- EJ rather than IJ, Si rather than Ne PoLR, emotion-creating rather than construct-creating, Fe role rather than as 7th function. However, he did use a lot of Fi when he spoke, and his Se seemed stronger than for most ENTjs, I concede that.

[Dioklecian]

Fine Dio, which types do you think they were then? At least we agree on ISTp for Tiberius.

Ceasar was ISTJ In my opinion.
Augustus was INTP IMO.

As always, these are only my opinions of course.

[Dioklecian]

An ENTJ IMO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Ali

[Expat]

Ceasar was ISTJ In my opinion.

Caesar was all about constant risk-taking and testing the limits; that's not very ISTj.

Augustus was INTP IMO.

That makes more sense, but I think he was EJ rather than IP, and Fe role rather than Fe PoLR.

[Expat]

Jodie Foster





Gamma, rational, and EJ rather than IJ. Not so obvious Fe role but still Fe role.

[implied]

i just read up a deal about jodie foster and ENTj does seem like a good choice for her.

[Expat]

I first got the idea of ENTj for her as I listened to her running commentary in the Contact DVD - that is an ENTj speaking, IMO.

[Expat]

Ann Coulter

ENFj and ESTp have been suggested. I keep coming back to ENTj from VI in interviews, writings, life and actions. She does have a flavor of Ti-Fe but in the end I think Te-Fi is her real "home". ENTj Ni subtype.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[discojoe]

Roger Ebert

[Expat]

Someone suggested ENFj or ESTp for Ann Coulter?? That's weird. I never would have considered either one of those. ENTj works for me (in my expert opinion )

Well, some time ago there was a thread on her, and there was a sort of ENFj-ENTj split among the views -- ESTp was suggested due to her sometimes going into "bullying" mode when debating.



Roger Ebert: I know who he is but I don't really know about his type.

[Exodus]

Donald Kagan, historian



Te blah-blah. On the Origins of War and the Preservation of Peace is one big long paragraph that spends very many pages describing what happened in several wars and very few pages on why they happened.

[Dioklecian]

Jodie Foster





Gamma, rational, and EJ rather than IJ. Not so obvious Fe role but still Fe role.

I think that she might be ISFJ, again, just my opinion of course.

[Expat]

I agree with you Dio, I was torn between ISFj and ENTj for her, but on reading about her life and listening to her running commentary in the Contact DVD I thought ENFj was more likely.

[Gilly]

Yulia looks more LSE if you ask me.

Caesar is more likely SLE, I think.

Nixon has always struck me as Te dominant, but I would say LSE is more likely; DS functions appearing strong is not usually a problem for typing, IMO, and I think his Te comes across in more cases than his Fi (at least from what I've seen).

[Expat]

Yulia looks more LSE if you ask me.

In that picture? That Si-loaded look is a front she's adopted in recent years. And if you watch her in an interview, it becomes clearer.

Caesar is more likely SLE, I think.

It's possible, and of course it's impossible to settle it, but a lot of small things that have been described about him personally - as by Suetonius - suggest LIE to me.

Also, Russian Socionists type him as SEE. I no longer find that as impossible as I used to, but I think that they may have been on to something as seeing him as a Gamma.

I think that the true SLE of the time was Pompey the Great.

Nixon has always struck me as Te dominant, but I would say LSE is more likely; DS functions appearing strong is not usually a problem for typing, IMO, and I think his Te comes across in more cases than his Fi (at least from what I've seen).

Again, I prefer LIE when I look at his life as a whole.

[Expat]

Bill Gates




I had almost forgotten him.

He's a good example of what many ENTjs look like -- a bit "nerdy" and awkward.

[Dioklecian]

Bill Gates




I had almost forgotten him.

He's a good example of what many ENTjs look like -- a bit "nerdy" and awkward.

I agree with this of course

[Expat]

Actually I don't have a strong argument against ESFj -- she can come across as one in TV interviews. But from reading about her life, and more in-depth written interviews, and from seeing her live, I think she's a logical type, although perhaps ESTj is also possible.

[Expat]

Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor





I had first typed him as INTp, but Rick suggested that ENTj is more likely, and I tend to agree.

Interestingly, he was very close to Carter, whom I have typed as ISFj.

[discojoe]

Conan O'Brien

EDIT: Which is odd, because I find his jokes somewhat annoying. Heh.

[discojoe]

Lol. Bill Gates at the US Supreme Court is one of the greatest comedy acts of our time.

[Expat]

Conan O'Brien and Brzezinski even VI similarly in those pictures

[eunice]

Lee Kuan Yew politician

*"Even from my sick bed, even if you are going to lower me into the grave and I feel something is going wrong, I will get up."

*"In a different world we need to find a niche for ourselves, little corners where in spite of our small size we can perform a role which will be useful to the world. To do that, you will need people at the top, decision-makers who have got foresight, good minds, who are open to ideas, who can seize opportunities like we did... My job really was to find my successors. I found them, they are there; their job is to find their successors. So there must be this continuous renewal of talented, dedicated, honest, able people who will do things not for themselves but for their people and for their country. If they can do that, they will carry on for another one generation and so it goes on. The moment that breaks, it's gone."

* once quoted as saying he preferred to be feared than loved. Adamant that the ends justify the means, Lee often prescribed repressive measures to safeguard national security and interests.