Pride & Prejudice

**Logos** · 09-03-2007, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by UDP

You're jumping to conclusions.

Perhaps, but I have seen such revaluations all too often not to pause and give such a possibility thought.

**UDP** · 09-03-2007, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Logos

Originally Posted by UDP

You're jumping to conclusions.

Perhaps, but I have seen such revaluations all too often not to pause and give such a possibility thought.

So, let me get this straight - you are telling me that it is a good idea to give possibilities a thought, and yet, you just told me to NOT think about Darcy as being anything other than LII?

**Elro** · 09-03-2007, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by UDP

So, let me get this straight - you are telling me that it is a good idea to give possibilities a thought, and yet, you just told me to NOT think about Darcy as being anything other than LII?

I believe you misread Logos' post.

**Logos** · 09-03-2007, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by UDP

Originally Posted by Logos

Originally Posted by UDP

You're jumping to conclusions.

Perhaps, but I have seen such revaluations all too often not to pause and give such a possibility thought.

So, let me get this straight - you are telling me that it is a good idea to give possibilities a thought, and yet, you just told me to NOT think about Darcy as being anything other than LII?

No, I am telling you that I have seen such revaluations which occur with type changes too often that I cannot help but believe in the possibility that you are going to shift your identification of the characters with your identification to Delta in what appears to be a jump to conclusion, despite the prior validity of what you said in regards to the characters.

**Logos** · 09-03-2007, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by hkkmr

I would not be surprised if Jane Austin was ISFp.

Her books from the way I look at them are

...

Not that there is a problem with that, but why do you say that? I think that perhaps there is just more Alphas posting in this thread, but Alphas do seem more interested this, but I wonder what the other three Quadras think about this book.

**implied** · 09-03-2007, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by hkkmr

I would not be surprised if Jane Austin was ISFp.

Her books from the way I look at them are

...

**marooned** · 09-03-2007, 11:43 PM

I love Pride and Prejudice.

I loved the book, the BBC mini-series, and I think the new movie of it sort of grew on me as well.

**UDP** · 09-04-2007, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Logos

No, I am telling you that I have seen such revaluations which occur with type changes too often that I cannot help but believe in the possibility that you are going to shift your identification of the characters with your identification to Delta in what appears to be a jump to conclusion, despite the prior validity of what you said in regards to the characters.

And that is why I said you are jumping to conclusions - because you did.

What I was saying -- which is true regardless of the types or anything else -- is that my understanding of Fe and Fi has changed since I wrote those analysis.

I am certainly not going to say "Oh yeah, Darcy must be ESTj just because that's what I am!" -- which seems to be what you were getting at.

**Logos** · 09-04-2007, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by UDP

Originally Posted by Logos

No, I am telling you that I have seen such revaluations which occur with type changes too often that I cannot help but believe in the possibility that you are going to shift your identification of the characters with your identification to Delta in what appears to be a jump to conclusion, despite the prior validity of what you said in regards to the characters.

And that is why I said you are jumping to conclusions - because you did.

What I was saying -- which is true regardless of the types or anything else -- is that my understanding of Fe and Fi has changed.

I am certainly not going to say "Oh yeah, Darcy must be ESTj just because that's what I am!" -- which seems to be what you were getting at.

Well you have identified yourself as Enneatype 1, and then proceeded to likewise identify Darcy as an a type 1. And when that is accompanied by your changing understanding of Fe and Fi, as well as your type identification change, then that jump in conclusion does not seem as far or as unreasonable as you make it out to be.

**UDP** · 09-04-2007, 01:24 AM

I (alone) didn't type Darcy as a 1, son:

Other fictional examples of type One include Mr. Spock, who is sometimes mistaken for a Five, Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor, Aragorn, from the Tolkien trilogy, and King Peter from the Narnia chronicles, whose creator, C.S. Lewis was also a One. And, Mr. Darcy from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. Mr. Darcy describes his character in these terms:"I have faults enough, but they are not, I hope, of understanding. My temper I dare not vouch for. It is, I believe, too little yielding, certainly too little for the convenience of the world. I cannot forget the follies and vices of other so soon as I ought, nor their offenses against myself. My feelings are not puffed about with every attempt to move them. My temper would perhaps be called resentful. My good opinion once lost, is lost forever...There is, I believe, in every disposition a tendency to some particular evil, a natural defect, which not even the best education can overcome."

http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=10:10
Ones - the enneagram ...info from the underground

Well you have identified yourself as Enneatype 1, and then proceeded to likewise identify Darcy as an a type 1. And when that is accompanied by your changing understanding of Fe and Fi, as well as your type identification change, then that jump in conclusion does not seem as far or as unreasonable as you make it out to be.

What you don't get is that Darcy was always a 1 - that never changed. I did not suddenly identify him as a 1, just now. He was that way from the start.

The way you processed the information, from your perspective - no you were not jumping to conclusions. But because you (apparently) didn't know that Darcy was always a 1, or I always saw him as a 1, you can see why your reasoning is not really applicable (from my end at least).

**Logos** · 09-04-2007, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by UDP

I (alone) didn't type Darcy as a 1, son:

Other fictional examples of type One include Mr. Spock, who is sometimes mistaken for a Five, Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor, Aragorn, from the Tolkien trilogy, and King Peter from the Narnia chronicles, whose creator, C.S. Lewis was also a One. And, Mr. Darcy from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. Mr. Darcy describes his character in these terms:"I have faults enough, but they are not, I hope, of understanding. My temper I dare not vouch for. It is, I believe, too little yielding, certainly too little for the convenience of the world. I cannot forget the follies and vices of other so soon as I ought, nor their offenses against myself. My feelings are not puffed about with every attempt to move them. My temper would perhaps be called resentful. My good opinion once lost, is lost forever...There is, I believe, in every disposition a tendency to some particular evil, a natural defect, which not even the best education can overcome."

http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=10:10
Ones - the enneagram ...info from the underground

Son? I do not like being talked down to, and those who do talk down to me will find themselves losing my respect rather quickly.

Well you have identified yourself as Enneatype 1, and then proceeded to likewise identify Darcy as an a type 1. And when that is accompanied by your changing understanding of Fe and Fi, as well as your type identification change, then that jump in conclusion does not seem as far or as unreasonable as you make it out to be.

What you don't get is that Darcy was always a 1 - that never changed. I did not suddenly identify him as a 1, just now. He was that way from the start.

The way you processed the information, from your perspective - no you were not jumping to conclusions. But because you (apparently) didn't know that Darcy was always a 1, or I always saw him as a 1, you can see why your reasoning is not really applicable (from my end at least).

I never said, though I may have inadvertently implied, that you identified him as a 1 just then, but that when you mentioned the 1 with the Fe/Fi and with your recent change, that in itself carries alot of suggestive weight. But looking through the list of "Famous 1s" it is definitely not very conclusive regarding Socionics types as there are "Famous 1s" on that list who run up and down the entire length of 16 types. And that is also why I prefer to keep Enneagram out of Socionics; Enneagram logic is not Socionics logic.

**munenori2** · 01-25-2008, 03:11 AM

Note that my observations are pertaining just to the 1995 version starring Colin Firth, Jennifer Ehle, et all. I was actually quite impressed by everyone's performances. To be honest I thought it was one of the best cast films I've ever seen. Some people were kind of hard to get a read on, but I'm curious to see if anyone else has seen the thing and had an opinion of their own regarding any of their types.

Mr. Darcy (Colin Firth): IxTp - Fe weak/unvalued, Te > Ti

Elizabeth Bennett (Jennifer Ehle): ENFp

Mr. Bingley: ESFj - Fe dominant, Si > Ni creativity

Jane Bennett: INFj

Mr. Bennet: INTj

**aestrivex** · 01-25-2008, 03:33 AM

somebody go back in time and kill jane austen so i never have to have read this. i mean it this time.

**aestrivex** · 01-25-2008, 03:34 AM

seriously worst book ever written.

**marooned** · 01-25-2008, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by Niffweed

seriously worst book ever written.

I love Pride and Prejudice! I've read the book, and I own the BBC mini-series (it's special).

**munenori2** · 01-25-2008, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by Loki

I love Pride and Prejudice! I've read the book, and I own the BBC mini-series (it's special).

And I mostly agree with Munenori's typings even. Sort of.

Agree with Bingly and Mr. Bennet. For some reason I though Mrs. Bennet was also ESE.

Agree that Elizabeth is Delta NF, only I thought INFj.

Thought Jane might actually be IEI, but not sure.

Thought Mr. Darcy might be ISTj. But I don't remember why.

My uncle finds Pride and Prejudice to be an abhorent, intolerable, "girl movie." I am certain he wishes Jane Austin was never born. This amuses me.

Interestingly enough, all of your guesses were my fall back options. Oh, except for Mrs. Bennett, I thought ESE for her as well.

**munenori2** · 01-25-2008, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by niffweed17

seriously worst book ever written.

I can't comment as to that score.

**marooned** · 01-25-2008, 03:59 AM

Actually, Darcy didn't seem very fond of

at all. Maybe he was SLI...

**akeaneau** · 01-25-2008, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by niffweed17

seriously worst book ever written.

Nah, that'd be "Emma"

**UDP** · 01-25-2008, 02:35 PM

Check out this thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ride+Prejudice

It was from a year ago.

I was much less informed about Fe and Fi and its related differences. I would not say Darcy exhibits much Fe dual seeking.

Darcy? ISFj perhaps. Maybe ISTp. He does not show much of an alpha vibe from him at all. More a physical sense than any alpha NT.

**tiny_dancer** · 01-25-2008, 02:48 PM

My guess is INTp for Mr. Bennett - only because he soooo reminds me of my dad. Intellectual, laid-back, always has his nose in a book, has a way of taking a step back and finding humor in the irritating circumstances of life. "I have the utmost respect for your nerves. They've been my constant companion these twenty years."

**tiny_dancer** · 01-25-2008, 03:53 PM

It's just the movie character that reminds me of dad - I haven't read the book in years...

**eunice** · 01-25-2008, 04:30 PM

I have never read a Jane Austen novel before. Am I missing anything?

**UDP** · 01-25-2008, 04:45 PM

So now you are SEI?

**implied** · 01-25-2008, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by UDP

So now you are SEI?

every time a forum member changes hir type, an INFj's wings fall off.

**munenori2** · 01-25-2008, 04:50 PM

**normal** · 01-25-2008, 04:53 PM

what is this miniseries about?

....

nevermind, wikipedia have an answer... =)

**eunice** · 01-25-2008, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by implied

every time a forum member changes hir type, an INFj's wings fall off.

Well, at least the halo is still there.

**aut0** · 01-25-2008, 05:17 PM

I called eunice being SEI months ago!

Oh, and the book was OK.

**UDP** · 01-25-2008, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by aut0

I called eunice being SEI months ago!

Oh, and the book was OK.

(Eunice was SEI months ago). Or before you were at the forum at least.

What has she been, INFp, ISFp, INFj?

The point of my post was to ask what lead to her change, or rather, return to SEI.

**Logos** · 01-25-2008, 06:02 PM

If you are curious about discussion regarding Pride and Prejudice, please use the search function to look over past discussions with pages and pages of debate regarding type.

**UDP** · 01-25-2008, 06:05 PM

^ aka this link

Originally Posted by UDP

Check out this thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ride+Prejudice

Wasn't there another longer one though? I can't find that one.

**eunice** · 01-26-2008, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by UDP

(Eunice was SEI months ago). Or before you were at the forum at least.

What has she been, INFp, ISFp, INFj?

The point of my post was to ask what lead to her change, or rather, return to SEI.

It is a natural progression for me. Yup.

**marooned** · 01-27-2008, 06:13 AM

Pride and Prejudice in snippets... Starring Elizabeth (as FiNe), Jane (as NiFe), Mr. Darcy (I have no idea), Mr. Bingly (as FeSi), Mr. Wickham (as "the fiend"), Mr. Bennett (as TiNe), and Mrs. Bennett (as Fe!).

~~~~~~~~

ELIZABETH
Mr. Darcy is so haughty. He offends my

. More than one lady was wanting for a partner and yet he refused to dance because he's so snobby, aristocratic, and arrogant that he believes himself to be beyond human decency. Insufferable man. I've also overheard him insulting those I hold dear on numerous occasions. I vow I shall never dance with him and wouldn't marry him if he were the last man on Earth!

~~~~~~~~

MR. WICKHAM
Here's some

for you, Elizabeth. Allow me to recount all of my experiences with Mr. Darcy and elicit your sympathies through my careful fiendish manipulations. It's hard to find the words to express just how unfairly I have been abused by that horror of a human being. Mr. Darcy essentially robbed me of my fortune and left me high and dry.

ELIZABETH
Oh dear god. I knew he was a horrible man but after receiving this

from you, Mr. Wickham, I daresay he's even more terrible than I imagined.

~~~~~~~~

ELIZABETH
Oh Jane, Mr. Wickham gave me this

earlier regarding Mr. Darcy, and it is most unsettling.

JANE
Well, Lizzy, I don't fully trust Te. Should we be so eager to accept Mr. Wickham's version of events?

ELIZABETH
I knew Mr. Darcy was an arrogant bastard the moment I laid eyes on him. In the same way, I knew Mr. Wickham to be a noble and honorable man the moment I laid eyes on him. My FiNe was very clear on both occasions.

JANE
But Lizzy, my NiFe renders me incapable of making any solid judgments about anyone or anything!

ELIZABETH
Oh Jane, you're such a dear.

~~~~~~~~

MR. BINGLY
FeSi, FeSi, FeSi, FeSi, FeSi...

JANE
Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni...

MR. DARCY
I'm really "good" at telling how people feel and possess supreme confidence in all of my abilities even those that I actually suck at (such as determining people's true feelings and understanding human relationships). So... I just don't think Jane really cares for Bingly. She appears too cold and distant. And the Bennetts have such unfortunate connections. Then there's Mrs. Bennett... she's like

all day long.

~~~~~~~~

MR. DARCY
It's all a ruse, Bingly. Trust my unerring judgment. Jane doesn't care for you and her mother just wants to use you to further the family's social position.

MR. BINGLY
Oh.

~~~~~~~~

JANE
Lizzy, everything's changing. Mr. Bingly's affections are waning away. And when I went to London investigating, the happenings there informed my Ni that I'll never see Mr. Bingly again. I shall endeavor to mope around for the rest of my life!

ELIZABETH
Oh Jane!

! I know Mr. Bingly is in love with you, and I saw the potential for the two of you to live happily ever after as though it had already happened. Something's wrong with this picture, it cannot be.

JANE

! Oh I've never been certain of Mr. Bingly's feelings towards me. Don't you know his feelings for me as I perceive them are dynamic rather than static? It's all a thick Ni fog. Please Lizzy, give me some Ti or perhaps some Se.

ELIZABETH
Ti? Se???? What are those?????! I'm afraid, Jane, all I can give you is more of my FiNe. You have my deepest sisterly sympathies.

~~~~~~~~

MR. DARCY
I'm in love with you, Elizabeth, despite my better judgment. Your family sucks, and as you know, my good opinion once lost is lost forever.

ELIZABETH
Stop offending my

! Here's all the

Mr. Wickham gave me about you! And my FiNe told me early on what sort of person you are! And, not to mention, you could not have offended my Fi any more than you did when you removed every possible chance for my sister's future happiness by separating her from Mr. Bingly. There is no one on Earth I hate and feel more wronged by than you!

MR. DARCY
Oh yeah, well here's my

on the Wickham matter! Why are you so fond of espousing opinions that are not your own?

ELIZABETH
Oh dear! Mr. Wickham gave me the wrong Te!

~~~~~~~~

ELIZABETH
I got some new Te to replace the old Te regarding Mr. Darcy and Mr. Wickham, and this has set my FiNe straight. It appears we were deceived about the character of Mr. Wickham all along!

JANE

! Oh Lizzy, it's not your fault!

~~~~~~~~

ELIZABETH
Father, I want to marry Mr. Darcy.

MR. BENNETT
This is confusing my Ti. Where's your Fe darling?

ELIZABETH
Fi, Father. I'm fond of Mr. Darcy. What is this Ti anyway????

~~~~~~~~

MRS. BENNETT
Fe! Fe! Fe! Fe!!!!!

MR. DARCY
Oh god.

**munenori2** · 01-27-2008, 02:53 PM

Best post I've read in a while! You really went the extra mile on this one, Loki.

**UDP** · 01-27-2008, 07:05 PM

if you left out the functions in your post, it would be of better quality.

**Logos** · 03-16-2009, 07:38 AM

I'm going to give this thread topic another shot. My only real familiarity with this book is through the 2005 movie adaptation with Keira Knightley and Matthew Macfayden, so I do not know how that will affect my typings. So my comments reflect this film.

Elizabeth Bennet: ESE
* She instructs her sister in a manner to more consciously manipulate Fe in order to catch Bingly's eyes.
* She seems to have strong Se in her rather confrontational personality, but it in itself does not seem to be valued. She is also rather proactive in her affairs (and others') in an EJ manner.
* During the second ballroom dance, she criticizes Mr. Darcy (while dancing) for his lack of appropriate levels of Fe.
* This with Keira Knightley (ESE) that Rick posted in Wikisocion also seems to indicate that she pulled ESE-qualities from the character.

Pride & Prejudice - Interviews Video by David Matthew Macfadyen - MySpace Video@@AMEPARAM@@http://mediaservices.myspace.com/services/media/embed.aspx/m=32502873@@AMEPARAM@@mediaservices@@AMEPARAM@@mys pace@@AMEPARAM@@services/media/embed@@AMEPARAM@@aspx/m@@AMEPARAM@@32502873

Jane Bennet: EII

Mr. Bennet: ???
* Just about the only thing certain at this point is that he is a logical introtim of some variety.

Mrs. Bennet: EIE
* While perhaps typical of mothers of this time period, she is quite concerned with the social advancement of her children.
* She plays her social cards with Ni -> Se concerns.
* She seems to have weak Si or concern for Si when her daughter Jane gets sick.

Charles Bingley: ESE/LSE

Mr. Fitzwilliam Darcy: LII
* The way that he stands off to the side at the dance watching but then refuses ("Do you dance, Mr. Darcy?" "Not if I can help it."): yeah, this depiction is rather LII-like. It at least takes me back to most dances of which I recall being a part.
* He also is rather rigid or he is obviously trying to maintain some since of composure from an IJ temperament and what appears to be an Fi role.
* Yes, the temperament is definitely the reserved stoic IJ temperament > IP.

Georgiana Darcy: SEI?

George Wickham: SLE

**Gilly** · 03-16-2009, 11:37 PM

I would think SEI or IEI for Knightly rather than ESE, but in general I agree with the typings of characters.

Personally I always thought ILE for Mr. Bennet, and I think Activity makes sense for he and Elizabeth. Also, he makes sense as Mrs. Bennet's Benefactor, or at least having the upper hand over Mrs. Bennet in either Benefit or Supervision of some form.

ESE works well for Bingley; perhaps Elizabeth as an Si subtype ESE and Bingley as an Fe subtype is a good contrast.

Lydia and Kitty Bennet are both Beta NFs, IMO. Mary is some IxTx; perhaps SLI or ILI.

**Sirena** · 03-17-2009, 12:33 AM

One of my favorite books of all time and a good movie!

@Gilly: there's no Mr. Knightley in P&P.

Elizabeth: IEE

Darcy: SLI

I agree with Gilly's typing of Mr. Bennet: ILE and Mrs. Bennet EIE. I think it's likely he could be her benefactor.

Jane: EII (Elizabeth being IEE makes much more sense)

Bingley: SEI (though intertype relationship with Jane doesn't make a lot of sense)

Wickham: ? (EIE>SLE)

Mr. Colins: ESI

**Logos** · 03-17-2009, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Sirena

One of my favorite books of all time and a good movie!

Elizabeth: IEE

She appeared as an EJ temperament in the film, in which she was constantly seeking ways to keep herself engaged in activity. Although she kept her leading-

in check to some degree (as is "fitting" for a woman in society), she does expect more of it from Mr. Darcy and is far more vocal and forward about her opinions that is far more reminicient (to me at least) of ESEs I know than IEEs.

Darcy: SLI

While this typing may work for Colin Firth, it does not actually appear to be a fit for Mr. Darcy (in at least the 2005 movie), who possesses an IJ rigidness to his temperament and an Fi role function that he uses to maintain that appearance. I did not see an Fe-PoLR to his character. I think that people at times do not realize just how reserved an LII can be to people (especially new comers and strangers) even with ego-Fe. It normally takes a while for the Fe-ego to "dethaw" the LII, which is what happens with the character of Mr. Darcy.

Jane: EII (Elizabeth being IEE makes much more sense)

Yes, Jane as EII.

Bingley: SEI (though intertype relationship with Jane doesn't make a lot of sense)

Hmm, I may have to look at that.

Wickham: ? (EIE>SLE)

That would perhaps be my second bet.

Mr. Colins: ESI

I am not sure. He was a rather timid character with a certain concern for status and wealth.

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