just type me pls

[Myst]

Hmm my problem with SLE or any Se lead type is this post by OP

"SLE-Ti is what I always get with socionics tests. I think it may be. Only thing is, you know when you go to the barber shop or some other place where testosterone level is generally high, and you see all those strong Se people.. I mean they just SWIM in reality, it's like they are constantly showing off. I'm like them, but not quite. Less in your face, also my interest in telling people what to do is generally low."

Or maybe that's a subtype difference between SxE-Se and SLE-Ti, OP would have to elaborate more on the differences.

[Biondo]

there's either the function subtype, say you're an SLE-Se or SLE-Ti, and there are the DCHN subtypes, which I don't really get but there you go http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-(translation).

Thanks!

[Biondo]

Hello Myst

Your thinking came off as linear but I could be wrong... what do you say?

Well, I take it as a compliment

I did say you are very likely a Logical type, yeah, the other possibility is that it's just Fe dual seeking of LxI, whatever you said about emotional exchanges. I've yet to hear any SLE say it like that, their Fe HA just doesn't seem to work that way.

You might be onto something here

Cool, your own invented exercises or what?

Nope I did not invent anything... I studied yoga, pilates, asked physiotherapysts.. Loss of mobility can be fixed if you are reasonably young and are willing to do the proper exercises, It only takes patience. For me was hard psychologically because I had to find a solution by myself

Lol what do you mean by unicorns, pls tell me bc I don't get it

Agreed about how you have to do things to get where you want to get.

It's a very Se life philosophy there btw.

Unicorns I mean that some people for example believe that "Time will fix everything" or other bullshit.. I mean things will not change unless you put some effort. Otherwise there would be no unhappy people.. in a perfect world. But this world is not perfect!

Just because the description sounds boring it doesn't mean it can't be your type. I mean, the people with that type are not boring, just the description is. If that makes sense...

Yes it was a superficial answer. And I don't think socionics SLI is actually a duty fulfiller... but well, if I do something, I want to express my creativity in it, so just filling papers seems not stimulating. Also confort I don't find very important, and I'm quite excitable so Fe polr seems unlikely. Another thing, my memory is just bad, very very bad. If you ask me what I ate yesterday I think 5 minutes but still don't know..

Did you have a problem with LSI as your type? Rather than SLE-Ti.

This stuff just doesn't sound like Fi PoLR.

I'd like to be LSI! But I'm friend with one, and I think I can spot his Ne Polr. He seems very resistent to new ideas.

[Biondo]

Hello Lord!

I vote ESTp as well. When you say people fighting for a spot in line is a war that sounds like Ni, but not this grand vision use of Ni more a use of it in your immediate environment.

Sigh I tough my Ni was quite sophisticated!

You also say humanity has a natural aggressiveness, it's just who we are, Se, it's just who Se leads egos.

And not only humans! For example in the savannah, every morning a gazzelle wakes up and she has to run faster than the lion, etc. etc.

You rarely get emotional about an opinion and internally think the person is stupid and you do not understand them, Ti.

yup

You said your most important value is to conquer this fucking world, if that's not ESTp then I don't know what is, that could be LIE but you don't seem Te first and you seem less serious than LIE, and you like small talk for the emotional exchange, not LIE, LIE hates small talk just get to the point already with them.

well one thing that I can say for sure is that I am not very serious at all

you hate theories (Ne superego block?)

I actually love theories IF they have an application in reality

and you take LSD trips in the park lol.

lmao

Anyway lately I was convinced I was LIE. But you are providing some very reasonable points.
The thing is I am not as "in the moment" as some Se people I see around me everyday. I always have a "delay"; I am not at all impulsive, but actually like to foresight things... I can't push people around nor have any interest in doing so. I don't lie. If all this this is common for a SLE-Ti, then that's what I am.

What's your type btw?

EDIT: actuallt LIE-Te is described as spontaneous, emotional and unrestrained

[Lord Pixel]

Hello Lord!



Sigh I tough my Ni was quite sophisticated!



And not only humans! For example in the savannah, every morning a gazzelle wakes up and she has to run faster than the lion, etc. etc.



yup



well one thing that I can say for sure is that I am not very serious at all



I actually love theories IF they have an application in reality



lmao

Anyway lately I was convinced I was LIE. But you are providing some very reasonable points.
The thing is I am not as "in the moment" as some Se people I see around me everyday. I always have a "delay"; I am not at all impulsive, but actually like to foresight things... I can't push people around nor have any interest in doing so. I don't lie. If all this this is common for a SLE-Ti, then that's what I am.

What's your type btw?

EDIT: actuallt LIE-Te is described as spontaneous, emotional and unrestrained

Hm, if I read it again I could probably make a case for that, except the liking small talk for emotional exchange, I think it would be 70-30% divide between how many ENTjs like small talk vs don't, it's quite a LIE lament "Ugh, I hate small talk!".

Also spontaneous, emotional, and unrestrained sounds very SLE too lol. Especially unrestrained.

Also ENTjs can push people around too, since their Te is trying to organize the environment for efficiency, and they have Ni long term goals, so their Te will bulldoze through others or push others around to get to that Ni goal.

well we know you value Ni and Se.

Do you normally take action before you have a plan, or do you have to plan things out first then take action?
And how do you experience emotions? Are they this alien experience that you can't make sense out of and stops you from being able to get things done?
Or are they felt in environments filled with positivity?

The way you type reminds me of a video I saw with Mila Kunis doing and interview, she's SLE and she's kind of goofy and not s serious.

My type is EII.

[Biondo]

Do you normally take action before you have a plan, or do you have to plan things out first then take action?

Hard to answer. Say in the morning if I'm early I'll walk, if late take the undeground. I cannot book holydays 6 month earlier as many do because for me vacations means being free so having a fixed plan would kill the holydays. However, in study-related stuff I really need to plan to keep myself productive. Without planning I end up wasting lot of time, instead knowing what to do day by day helps me accomplish tasks with maximum efficiency. Also chores I arrange as to make best use of time, I really like tidyness for example so when I need something I know where to find it.

And how do you experience emotions? Are they this alien experience that you can't make sense out of and stops you from being able to get things done?

This is the first time I read of emotions described this way and it is actually very accurate...

Or are they felt in environments filled with positivity?

Yes also but I have a "limit" for that, social stimulation "numbs" me after some time

Also, can someone explain me why reinin defines intuition as "integrity of internal/external situation"? This may help me understand the difference between Ni/Ti

EDIT: I still think I am LIE-Ni

[Lord Pixel]

Hard to answer. Say in the morning if I'm early I'll walk, if late take the undeground. I cannot book holydays 6 month earlier as many do because for me vacations means being free so having a fixed plan would kill the holydays. However, in study-related stuff I really need to plan to keep myself productive. Without planning I end up wasting lot of time, instead knowing what to do day by day helps me accomplish tasks with maximum efficiency. Also chores I arrange as to make best use of time, I really like tidyness for example so when I need something I know where to find it.



This is the first time I read of emotions described this way and it is actually very accurate...



Yes also but I have a "limit" for that, social stimulation "numbs" me after some time

Also, can someone explain me why reinin defines intuition as "integrity of internal/external situation"? This may help me understand the difference between Ni/Ti

EDIT: I still think I am LIE-Ni

Your first answer sounds like he has some Te in it, you like to make the best use of your time, maximum efficiency, but if you are SLE you would have demonstrative Te so that makes sense there.

Hm, what you say about social stimulation actually sounds like mobilizing Fe. Because that function is pleasant to use but has a limit, it's moreso used for relaxation.


I have a few other questions.

You said you really need to plan. Now does that mean you plan often or just that when you do plan it helps?

When learning how to do something new, do you try to learn everything about it, or do you only try to learn the information that's useful?

When you are around people do you enjoy people who are very emotionally expressive or do those people annoy you?


I think I could make a case for both SLE and LIE based off some things you said, so it's actually getting harder to figure out what you might be for me lol.

[Biondo]

Your first answer sounds like he has some Te in it, you like to make the best use of your time, maximum efficiency, but if you are SLE you would have demonstrative Te so that makes sense there.

Hm, what you say about social stimulation actually sounds like mobilizing Fe. Because that function is pleasant to use but has a limit, it's moreso used for relaxation.


I have a few other questions.

You said you really need to plan. Now does that mean you plan often or just that when you do plan it helps?

When learning how to do something new, do you try to learn everything about it, or do you only try to learn the information that's useful?

When you are around people do you enjoy people who are very emotionally expressive or do those people annoy you?


I think I could make a case for both SLE and LIE based off some things you said, so it's actually getting harder to figure out what you might be for me lol.

Yeah being SLE-Ti I would have 4.5D Te so wuold be very good regardless

Honestly I do not like to plan but will do if necessary

I learn what is necessary to do the thing I have to do, and will expand knowledge alongside practical experimentation

I like them very much but also depends on the context, say if I must live with them then I may prefer more restrained types


Hey this sounds like EP temperament!!! maybe you guys are right and I'm SLE after all

[Myst]

Well, I take it as a compliment

Okay lol

Unicorns I mean that some people for example believe that "Time will fix everything" or other bullshit.. I mean things will not change unless you put some effort. Otherwise there would be no unhappy people.. in a perfect world. But this world is not perfect!

Time does fix e.g. some feelings actually. But I otherwise agree with you. I say these same things myself.

Yes it was a superficial answer. And I don't think socionics SLI is actually a duty fulfiller... but well, if I do something, I want to express my creativity in it, so just filling papers seems not stimulating. Also confort I don't find very important, and I'm quite excitable so Fe polr seems unlikely. Another thing, my memory is just bad, very very bad. If you ask me what I ate yesterday I think 5 minutes but still don't know..

The MBTI "duty fulfiller" isn't Fe PoLR or comfort-oriented. SLI is those things, sure, but don't mix it with the MBTI types.

I'd like to be LSI! But I'm friend with one, and I think I can spot his Ne Polr. He seems very resistent to new ideas.

Alright then that type is out.

The thing is I am not as "in the moment" as some Se people I see around me everyday. I always have a "delay"; I am not at all impulsive, but actually like to foresight things... I can't push people around nor have any interest in doing so. I don't lie. If all this this is common for a SLE-Ti, then that's what I am.

I would say SLE is out too.


No other idea atm though, sorry. I'll post if I do think of more.

[golden]

@Biondo where you said

I'd like to be LSI! But I'm friend with one, and I think I can spot his Ne Polr. He seems very resistent to new ideas.
Alright then that type is out.

what does his resistance to new ideas look like to you? And how are you not resistant to new ideas?

[Biondo]

No other idea atm though, sorry. I'll post if I do think of more.

I might also be ILE, sadly

[Biondo]

@Biondo where you said


what does his resistance to new ideas look like to you? And how are you not resistant to new ideas?

It’s like he has this amount of ancestral knowledge that cannot be shaken. You have to do this and that because that’s life biondo, so soldier up. He himself looks like he comes from another time. He’s a lord or something and still act like it’s 1850 lol, he’s the best guy actually

me Personally If I can profit from an idea don’t care if it comes from the future or from 100 years ago

[golden]

It’s like he has this amount of ancestral knowledge that cannot be shaken. You have to do this and that because that’s life biondo, so soldier up. He himself looks like he comes from another time. He’s a lord or something and still act like it’s 1850 lol, he’s the best guy actually

me Personally If I can profit from an idea don’t care if it comes from the future or from 100 years ago

Any chance you could be ENTp?

ETA: Haha, just saw your post two up from this one.

ILEs are cool tho! I like 'em lots anyway.

[Myst]

me Personally If I can profit from an idea don’t care if it comes from the future or from 100 years ago

What kind of profit do you care about?

[Biondo]

What kind of profit do you care about?

Material profits

[Myst]

Material profits

That's not really ILEish

[Myst]

It’s like he has this amount of ancestral knowledge that cannot be shaken. You have to do this and that because that’s life biondo, so soldier up. He himself looks like he comes from another time. He’s a lord or something and still act like it’s 1850 lol, he’s the best guy actually

OK I'm actually curious, what sort of things do you classify as "ancestral knowledge" in his case? Got examples?

[Biondo]

What other kinds of profits would an ILE prefer? Superior knowledge? Omg who cares about that?

Yeah like he’s never going to quit smoking or drinking beer because “that’s what real men do”, he carries around a pocket knife that his grandfather used in the war of guinea, he opens door for ladies (!!) and do not swear in their presence (!!!) and if you try to explain him that those behaviors are meaningless in the modern world he won’t care. But beside this he’s a very intelligent and logical person

[golden]

What other kinds of profits would an ILE prefer? Superior knowledge? Omg who cares about that?

Anyone with more expertise on ILEs please correct if this is off-base. My observations of ILEs are that one way they “profit” is by making something new, such as these specific things I’ve seen lol:

* a new kind of preschool using innovative education approaches
* a rock band that combines elements of southern gospel and punk
* artworks that use materials in novel ways, such as a surfboard used as a medium for photo transfer or dozens of papers connected into a long scroll depicting an auto race horizontally
* a mountain bike course capitalizing on features of the natural terrain

Whether money follows is not the core issue, although it seems like ILEs can do okay moneywise. I have seen them live without terrible stress on very little money, and I’ve seen them make a good bit of money as a result of their activities and manage it well. Tho they can sometimes drop a lot of cash on specific big-ticket items that capture their fancy.

[Myst]

What other kinds of profits would an ILE prefer? Superior knowledge? Omg who cares about that?

Innovation, scientific discovery, technology

"Superior knowledge" seems more like gamma NT, esp ILI

Yeah like he’s never going to quit smoking or drinking beer because “that’s what real men do”, he carries around a pocket knife that his grandfather used in the war of guinea, he opens door for ladies (!!) and do not swear in their presence (!!!) and if you try to explain him that those behaviors are meaningless in the modern world he won’t care. But beside this he’s a very intelligent and logical person

Thanks for the examples

[Biondo]

Anyone with more expertise on ILEs please correct if this is off-base. My observations of ILEs are that one way they “profit” is by making something new, such as these specific things I’ve seen lol:

* a new kind of preschool using innovative education approaches
* a rock band that combines elements of southern gospel and punk
* artworks that use materials in novel ways, such as a surfboard used as a medium for photo transfer or dozens of papers connected into a long scroll depicting an auto race horizontally
* a mountain bike course capitalizing on features of the natural terrain

Whether money follows is not the core issue, although it seems like ILEs can do okay moneywise. I have seen them live without terrible stress on very little money, and I’ve seen them make a good bit of money as a result of their activities and manage it well. Tho they can sometimes drop a lot of cash on specific big-ticket items that capture their fancy.

pheww I’m not ILE lol

[Biondo]

Innovation, scientific discovery, technology

"Superior knowledge" seems more like gamma NT, esp ILI




Thanks for the examples

you’re welcome

[Biondo]

Anyway I’m 100% sold on SLE at this point.

Thanks to to everyone who helped me!

[Myst]

Anyway I’m 100% sold on SLE at this point.

Thanks to to everyone who helped me!

You said you are not as in the present though than the Se bases you've seen? Or do you attribute that to a strong Ti checking trying to get some foresight?

[Lord Pixel]

Yeah being SLE-Ti I would have 4.5D Te so would be very good regardless

Honestly I do not like to plan but will do if necessary

I learn what is necessary to do the thing I have to do, and will expand knowledge alongside practical experimentation

I like them very much but also depends on the context, say if I must live with them then I may prefer more restrained types


Hey this sounds like EP temperament!!! maybe you guys are right and I'm SLE after all

I think the first bolded is enough to solidify you as a P.

I think the second bolded is enough to say you aren't ENTj. Fe role function cna make you distrustful of Fe and make you think it's manipulative.

[Biondo]

You said you are not as in the present though than the Se bases you've seen? Or do you attribute that to a strong Ti checking trying to get some foresight?

Yes this was my hypotesis. The thing is, I tend to zone out a lot.
About the "delay", I'm trying to put things in perspective. I can sort of feel it, but don't know if it's actually there, I mean from the point of view of an external observer. Probably not.

[Biondo]

I think the first bolded is enough to solidify you as a P.

Lol I can plan but my concept of time is very restricted, like I cannot go too much out of the present. I guess this is the meaning of dual seeking, I really want foresight but inevitably end up being terrible at it.

I think the second bolded is enough to say you aren't ENTj. Fe role function cna make you distrustful of Fe and make you think it's manipulative.

But I'm a very distrustful person and I definitely have felt that sensation. Most times however, this not stops me from being expressive and liking others expression.
Anyway it's really strange because when I was younger I was very reserved... I dunno. What sold me on SLE was actually the visual identification, I think my temperament is clearly EP, my energy spikes a lot. Being also a thinker, that only leaves SLE and ILE as possible options, and although I am still trying to decipher the meaning of the elusive Ne (hello reinin's "integrity of the external situation"), I am quite sure I do not value it.
Also I read a post of Adam Strange describing his SLE co-worker. He was described as a primitive man. He reminded me of me.

[golden]

Anyway it's really strange because when I was younger I was very reserved... I dunno.

It was pointed out to me years ago that a young Fi-polr can seem very reserved because they are unsure of other people. So maybe not so strange.

[Lord Pixel]

Lol I can plan but my concept of time is very restricted, like I cannot go too much out of the present. I guess this is the meaning of dual seeking, I really want foresight but inevitably end up being terrible at it.

I want to stop right her and just say this is enough. This is enough to say Se leading Ni seeking. And then you say you are a thinker. ESTP. I feel like if this was the first thing said this would be a short thread.

[Myst]

Yes this was my hypotesis. The thing is, I tend to zone out a lot.
About the "delay", I'm trying to put things in perspective. I can sort of feel it, but don't know if it's actually there, I mean from the point of view of an external observer. Probably not.

What do you mean by perspective here?

But I'm a very distrustful person and I definitely have felt that sensation. Most times however, this not stops me from being expressive and liking others expression.
Anyway it's really strange because when I was younger I was very reserved... I dunno. What sold me on SLE was actually the visual identification, I think my temperament is clearly EP, my energy spikes a lot. Being also a thinker, that only leaves SLE and ILE as possible options, and although I am still trying to decipher the meaning of the elusive Ne (hello reinin's "integrity of the external situation"), I am quite sure I do not value it.
Also I read a post of Adam Strange describing his SLE co-worker. He was described as a primitive man. He reminded me of me.

Is Ne the hardest to understand for you of all 8 IEs?

[Dee]

Hi Dee!
SLE-Ti is what I always get with socionics tests. I think it may be. Only thing is, you know when you go to the barber shop or some other place where testosterone level is generally high, and you see all those strong Se people.. I mean they just SWIM in reality, it's like they are constantly showing off. I'm like them, but not quite. Less in your face, also my interest in telling people what to do is generally low.
Dichotomies-wise I'm not sure I get all of them, but I especially identify with constructivism and involutionary thinking. Do you think I am negativist?

Thanks to everybody who took the time to answer!

EDIT: ok friends, was reading another thread and SLI was labeled "stone wall" due to Fe polr. If so I can't be, I'm very excitable most times.

You are confusing ESxJ with Se and telling people what to do with ESTp quality. ESxJs have demonstrative Se, so they will try to act like that, but not in your face, so as not to require their dual to respond with a weak function perhaps. Then, telling people what to do (to perform general kind of actions is about Te) is more about Te mental rather than vital (which is not an ESTp trait). This is because our mental blocks are directed toward someone in particular in the outside, while our vital blocks on ourselves and society/the collective, according to my observation.

[Biondo]

You are confusing ESxJ with Se and telling people what to do with ESTp quality. ESxJs have demonstrative Se, so they will try to act like that, but not in your face, so as not to require their dual to respond with a weak function perhaps. Then, telling people what to do (to perform general kind of actions is about Te) is more about Te mental rather than vital (which is not an ESTp trait). This is because our mental blocks are directed toward someone in particular in the outside, while our vital blocks on ourselves and society/the collective, according to my observation.

Hello Dee
I do not understand your point, are you suggesting I may be ESxJ?

[Biondo]

Hey Myst

What do you mean by perspective here?

I meant trying to see myself from outside, with another person eyes.

Is Ne the hardest to understand for you of all 8 IEs?

It is not in the way it is generally described. However, Reinin's description leaves me in total confusion. How is this external harmony related to the perception of possibilities, analogies, "global" thinking?

And actually, the hardest thing for me to understand is the difference between Ti and Te.

[Myst]

Hey Myst

I meant trying to see myself from outside, with another person eyes.

Ok. It still tips me off towards you being *not* Se base.

It is not in the way it is generally described. However, Reinin's description leaves me in total confusion. How is this external harmony related to the perception of possibilities, analogies, "global" thinking?

And actually, the hardest thing for me to understand is the difference between Ti and Te.

Oh the external harmony means the world is good as it is with its possibilities, supposedly affecting tangible change destroying this external harmony is more the domain of Se. Where Se is compatible with the internal harmony of Ni with its intuitive principles instead of the external world's. Let me know if that made sense.

Ti vs Te: what is the problem there for you? I would say it's like, Ti needs to understand how things with all their quantifiable traits objectively, quantifiably and distinctly relate to each other in a systematic and logically predictable way before it can deal with objects or take action, while Te just gets the objective, quantifiable distinct facts themselves to take action to ensure things are working right in the world. So Ti operates with objects through a logical layer removed from them while Te is more direct in accessing them.

Ofc Te egos have a little Ti in the background helping unconsciously sort some of the facts a bit beyond what's already been presented to Te, but Te does not ever focus on that consciously, instead, if they get to subscribe to a few systematic principles, they are simply part of these functionally sensible/actually working facts for them. While Ti also has a little Te in the background helping a bit with absorbing facts unconsciously. Ti also cares whether their logic actually works and is sensible but it has to be sensible and has to be working in terms of the logic ordering things in the system they themselves organize beyond the pure facts, or beyond stuff that's directly stated that you can read about.

So, sure, that system really looks unnecessary to Te beyond a point because you just need the right facts ordered a little bit to get things working. While to Ti these facts will look too random, disparate without figuring out how they relate to each other. I personally run circles around Te in certain situations where my deeper understanding (that I took time to build first, while Te neglected doing so) allows me to make conclusions to pick the right actions without having to know extra facts for it. (And sure, Te can also beat Ti in some other situations)

There is another good distinction... where the Te pov is hard for me to understand fully but I think it really is a good distinction otherwise, Ti will treat words as objects relatively positioned logically to each other, while Te will treat each word as its own object that doesn't change logical meaning relative to other ones. So, if a particularly lost IEI walks up to you and tells you "I took it", if you directly inquire about the logical positions of things in the sentence to figure out what the IEI meant, that's Ti, and if you just bark at them, "what are you talking about", that's Te.

Did this make sense?

[Biondo]

Ok. It still tips me off towards you being *not* Se base.




Oh the external harmony means the world is good as it is with its possibilities, supposedly affecting tangible change destroying this external harmony is more the domain of Se. Where Se is compatible with the internal harmony of Ni with its intuitive principles instead of the external world's. Let me know if that made sense.

Ti vs Te: what is the problem there for you? I would say it's like, Ti needs to understand how things with all their quantifiable traits objectively, quantifiably and distinctly relate to each other in a systematic and logically predictable way before it can deal with objects or take action, while Te just gets the objective, quantifiable distinct facts themselves to take action to ensure things are working right in the world. So Ti operates with objects through a logical layer removed from them while Te is more direct in accessing them.

Ofc Te egos have a little Ti in the background helping unconsciously sort some of the facts a bit beyond what's already been presented to Te, but Te does not ever focus on that consciously, instead, if they get to subscribe to a few systematic principles, they are simply part of these functionally sensible/actually working facts for them. While Ti also has a little Te in the background helping a bit with absorbing facts unconsciously. Ti also cares whether their logic actually works and is sensible but it has to be sensible and has to be working in terms of the logic ordering things in the system they themselves organize beyond the pure facts, or beyond stuff that's directly stated that you can read about.

So, sure, that system really looks unnecessary to Te beyond a point because you just need the right facts ordered a little bit to get things working. While to Ti these facts will look too random, disparate without figuring out how they relate to each other. I personally run circles around Te in certain situations where my deeper understanding (that I took time to build first, while Te neglected doing so) allows me to make conclusions to pick the right actions without having to know extra facts for it. (And sure, Te can also beat Ti in some other situations)

There is another good distinction... where the Te pov is hard for me to understand fully but I think it really is a good distinction otherwise, Ti will treat words as objects relatively positioned logically to each other, while Te will treat each word as its own object that doesn't change logical meaning relative to other ones. So, if a particularly lost IEI walks up to you and tells you "I took it", if you directly inquire about the logical positions of things in the sentence to figure out what the IEI meant, that's Ti, and if you just bark at them, "what are you talking about", that's Te.

Did this make sense?

Hey Myst, very informative answer, thanks.
I wrote a very long reply that got deleted, I need to regain some force of wil before another attempt

EDIT: really can't believe it got deleted

[Biondo]

It was pointed out to me years ago that a young Fi-polr can seem very reserved because they are unsure of other people. So maybe not so strange.

Hey Golden, since you're EIE, would you mind describing me how do you use Ni creative?

[Biondo]

Ti vs Te: what is the problem there for you? I would say it's like, Ti needs to understand how things with all their quantifiable traits objectively, quantifiably and distinctly relate to each other in a systematic and logically predictable way before it can deal with objects or take action, while Te just gets the objective, quantifiable distinct facts themselves to take action to ensure things are working right in the world. So Ti operates with objects through a logical layer removed from them while Te is more direct in accessing them.

Ofc Te egos have a little Ti in the background helping unconsciously sort some of the facts a bit beyond what's already been presented to Te, but Te does not ever focus on that consciously, instead, if they get to subscribe to a few systematic principles, they are simply part of these functionally sensible/actually working facts for them. While Ti also has a little Te in the background helping a bit with absorbing facts unconsciously. Ti also cares whether their logic actually works and is sensible but it has to be sensible and has to be working in terms of the logic ordering things in the system they themselves organize beyond the pure facts, or beyond stuff that's directly stated that you can read about.

So, sure, that system really looks unnecessary to Te beyond a point because you just need the right facts ordered a little bit to get things working. While to Ti these facts will look too random, disparate without figuring out how they relate to each other. I personally run circles around Te in certain situations where my deeper understanding (that I took time to build first, while Te neglected doing so) allows me to make conclusions to pick the right actions without having to know extra facts for it. (And sure, Te can also beat Ti in some other situations)

There is another good distinction... where the Te pov is hard for me to understand fully but I think it really is a good distinction otherwise, Ti will treat words as objects relatively positioned logically to each other, while Te will treat each word as its own object that doesn't change logical meaning relative to other ones. So, if a particularly lost IEI walks up to you and tells you "I took it", if you directly inquire about the logical positions of things in the sentence to figure out what the IEI meant, that's Ti, and if you just bark at them, "what are you talking about", that's Te.

Did this make sense?

My first reaction to this was "so you're telling me that extroverted logic actually has no logic in it?" so I went on to search a definition of logic and found this: Reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

Now, being validity the important part, and assuming that most facts cannot be validated though experiment, (sure the earth is round, but how many actually went in space to confirm it?), If I understand this correctly Te gets the validation from outside (it's written on the book/the expert says so), while Ti gets validation through deductive reasoning. Now clearly both functions will be validated both ways, it's just that Ti will prefer deductive reasoning while Te usually won't bother.

As an example, the other day I was having dinner with a friend, and he was drinking wine. I was not, because I don't drink anymore. He proceeded to ask me the reason of my decision, saying that afterall "a glass of wine per day is good for health" or "helps prevent cancer", I don't remember. then I was like, sure mate, but do you realize that if instead of wine you'd drink a glass of grape juice per day it would be 10x times better? (no fermentation, no additives, more vitamins, polyphenols, etc)

So, for Te a glass of wine is good for health, while for Ti is better than vodka and worse than grape juice? makes sense?

On your example, I would inquire out of politeness but actually would like to bark, since language is meant to be understandable by the other part

So if I what I wrote is correct, I still don't know what I use I need to think about it but my Ti seems maybe too strong to be ignoring function

EDIT 2: OMG I get it now!! It's the opposite of what I wrote here and it has nothing to do with validity, so please disregard this post up to here. I will elaborate in a further post.

Oh the external harmony means the world is good as it is with its possibilities, supposedly affecting tangible change destroying this external harmony is more the domain of Se. Where Se is compatible with the internal harmony of Ni with its intuitive principles instead of the external world's. Let me know if that made sense.

I would say the world is as it is, but not good as it is . Anyway, I think I get this, Ne see multiple possibilities and wants to expand in every direction and feels delighted by that, while Se focus on one/few possibilities and focus on concretising them

Ok. It still tips me off towards you being *not* Se base.

Ok but Ti base is unlikely either.
From what I read Ti bases are very attached to their understandings, to the point of denying facts; I would never do that. It would be counterproductive, since for me ideas are not real, they are just used to describe or do stuff, and work as long as someone else does not comes up with a better one. In essence, I think reality is way too complex most times, and there is often a sharp division between the real and the ideal; the closest the ideal to the real the better the idea/theory is, but a degree of approximation will always remain (I know I'm getting phylosophical)

EDIT: I took the IR test by Sol and boys! I am really into these INTPs. Sure they're young and russian, this must be factored in

[Biondo]

From what I read Ti bases are very attached to their understandings, to the point of denying facts; I would never do that. It would be counterproductive, since for me ideas are not real, they are just used to describe or do stuff, and work as long as someone else does not comes up with a better one. In essence, I think reality is way too complex most times, and there is often a sharp division between the real and the ideal; the closest the ideal to the real the better the idea/theory is, but a degree of approximation will always remain (I know I'm getting phylosophical)

So I was rereading what I wrote yesterday and then I got it: Te will check logical consistency only, while Ti will also systematize information.
So the difference is that Te base is never ever interersted in theory, it just wants to "use" the facts, without any particular need to "fill the blanks" in the theory, that it sees as a forcing.
On the other hand, Ti will find unsystematized information as too random to be relied upon, and will want to "polish" the theory.
Now, why Te does not need that? because it uses its creative function instead. So LSE will not need any theory since it will remember every fact anyway.
LIE will get through observation small hunches, impressions, that will add up and build a sort of vision of a given phenomenon. Then he will proceed through experimentation... He's driven by dreams, not knowledge. A young LIE see a documentary on Mars on TV, now he will try to be an astronaut and go there. He actually does not care if its possible or not, lol. For him there is only one way to know...

Let me know what you think Myst.

[Bertrand]

Te base is Ti "observation" and "control" meaning what you said is true in the sense it unconsciously "monitors" consistency, and will reject or manipulate Ti theories for Fi reasons (benefit) if it spots an opening. Te creative does this too, but it has to "turn on"- normally its controlling intuitions or sensation, and not necessarily logic. Ti base develops theory for its own sake, and "controls" Te this way. Think of Ti as legislatures trying to close loopholes and Te base trying to find them. Typical financial regulators v entrepreneurs, a wall street sort of cat n mouse

[Biondo]

Te base is Ti "observation" and "control" meaning what you said is true in the sense it unconsciously "monitors" consistency, and will reject or manipulate Ti theories for Fi reasons (benefit) if it spots an opening. Te creative does this too, but it has to "turn on"- normally its controlling intuitions or sensation, and not necessarily logic. Ti base develops theory for its own sake, and "controls" Te this way. Think of Ti as legislatures trying to close loopholes and Te base trying to find them. Typical financial regulators v entrepreneurs, a wall street sort of cat n mouse

Hey Bertrand, interesting analogy. But why does Te creative preferentially monitors intuition or sensation and not logic?