Your typing of forum members

[Braingel]

That's pretty funny. So you actually do support the death penalty, while arguing it's germane to Te cultures and least common in Beta, and you type as Beta Te PolR. And you support it while global Delta culture has been evolving toward categorical elimination of the death penalty for some time now.

Yes, as you said, there are 'stigmas' with perceptions of all quadras, and all attempts at description of them--indeed all utterances about them (including oc those I write in this post)--will fall short. But Stratiyevskaya didn't just pull the punishments of Beta out of a hat.

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Stratiyevskaya.

No. What I mean is that I think the death penalty is way overused and used all too many times when unnecessary. I do not need be supervised on wording, here. This is reminding me of how Stugg, an LIE-Ni, tries supervising me.. But this actually seems like more an attempt at Ti correction, but in my case it is Te by wording not as efficiently, I did not really contradict myself, just did not word as efficient as some others would like and that is not my issue. Stratiyevskaya if un-mistaken, also was an ESI and wrote very much in bias, favoring the gamma, and if you follow her, maybe that gives more likelihood of you being a gamma as well, but I am not saying what type you are.. You can as much easily be deltam given delta also values Te and you tried painting delta in lighter way and maybe you just disagree with the whole Fi thing, but you definitely are Fi/Te.

[Braingel]

You probably are a delta ST, given most gamma would not view beta in as negative a light and well.. All types exist for a reason and have their place and beta just is again, least common thus misunderstood most. It does not make beta deserving of more punishment, it just means there are less beta values, and this even supports such view, that beta is scapegoated. Scapegpoats almost always are the outcast and it is easier to pin on them, because we have more standing out and are viewed as flawed and thus it is easier to bandwagon us upon.

[Braingel]

Our flaws just are most noticeable, since we stand out against the main notion of society, and challenge it, the opposite way of the general flaw, and the general flaws thereof are covert, since they not as easily recognize. take my father, who is an LSE and abuses me physically and emotionally. Many will assume me as problem because of how reactive I am to him. Not seeing the origin, he is more hidden and I am deemed just a "problem child". Society condemning reactive people, beta being less common, means others are not as reactive as us, and not understanding reactivity is not a conscious choice, they see us as drama king and queen. Reactivity and emotional expression is not their innate way, and since they can easily moderate their emotion and do not as much need express, they cannot fathom how it is not a choice in others, since they can make choice. It is easy tell beta is least common by what society disparages-- emotional reactivity, and people who fail in efficiency, th3e educational system built in very Te formatting.

[Braingel]

Also, by what I earlier had said on this thread, with a prevalence of Te PolR committing suicide in our society, seemingly more than other types... And then beta extroverts it seems are more likely incarcerate.. It means that society is lesser built for us, so we act out or take our own lives, because the pain of not being valued in world or understood, can be too much bear.

[Braingel]

As I just got my watermelon-strawberry juice, more hit me: a child always punished for expressing their emotions is more likely develop mental health challenges.. You often see parents abuse and/or punish children for having a tantrum or crying.. And then an extroverted, more impulsive child (SLE) is more likely be seen as problem and be spat upon and then want rebel, commit of crime. If society were all beta, delta children would feel invalidated by wanting keep to self and they would become bitter and always be on edge and feel violated and be the ones with more challenges.

[chriscorey]

Also, by what I earlier had said on this thread, with a prevalence of Te PolR committing suicide in our society, seemingly more than other types... And then beta extroverts it seems are more likely incarcerate.. It means that society is lesser built for us, so we act out or take our own lives, because the pain of not being valued in world or understood, can be too much bear.

More than Se PoLR? You have statistics on this?

[Braingel]

I also wanted say but could not because my mother took all internet from me, and I only have a laptop that I got a charger for today at Best Buy, hence only can be online when in presence of Wifi, that only a Te ego would care about Te efficiency and wording as much as what had been shown.

[Braingel]

More than Se PoLR? You have statistics on this?

No stats, but look at public celebrities who have of their life, taken-- Ian Curtis, Kurt Cobain, River Pheonix, Chester Benington, Avicci, and murder suicides; Adam Lanza and Dylan Kleboid.. All are IEI.

You do not as much hear of EII and LII suicides, though of course, they will happen, as any type can of their life take, given right circumstance-- eventful or of mental state.

Then look at the celebrities who appear most suffer-- with depression and substance abuse; Fiona Apple, Martin Gore, Roland Orzabal... John Steinbeck, Julia Cameron... Michelle Pfiefer. The leader of Bring me the Horizon (Olie something).. The Olsen sisters.. Virginia Wolfe. They all too, are IEI's..

[chriscorey]

No stats, but look at public celebrities who have of their life, taken-- Ian Curtis, Kurt Cobain, River Pheonix, Chester Benington, and murder suicides; Adam Lanza and Dylan Kleboid.. All are IEI.

You do not as much hear of EII and LII suicides, though of course, they will happen, as any type can of their life take, given right circumstance-- eventful or of mental state.

Then look art the celebrities who appear most suffer-- with depression and substance abuse; Fiona Apple, Martin Gore, Roland Orzabal... John Steinbeck, Julia Cameron... Michelle Pfiefer.

Maybe because they're not that famous. Celebrities is a very small pool of people to gather statistics from and that's assuming they're typed correctly.

Poets Sylvia Plath killed herself and she was 1 EII. How many poets are there?

[Braingel]

well the only potential flaw may be that IEI may more likely be famous than an EII, since EII is more private.. But poets do have higher rate of suicide, and majority of poets are IEI, the next most common appears of EII. IEI is named the "lyricist" for a reason.. Sergie Yesenin was a famous poet even, and he is named after us, the formal name of IEI being Yessenin.

[chriscorey]

well the only potential flaw may be that IEI may more likely be famous than an EII, since EII is more private.. But poets do have higher rate of suicide, and majority of poets are IEI, the next most common appears of EII. IEI is named the "lyricist" for a reason.. Sergie Yesenin was a famous poet even, and he is named after us, the formal name of IEI being Yessenin.

Where did you read that most poets are IEI? Are there valid statistics on this? I need to see the proof.

[Braingel]

Whilst an EII certainly can take of their life and they probably are a more common type seen in suicide completion, I would argue Suggestive Se makes it easier for taking one's life, since it requires the action to do such, and Ni base may sort of view it as a temporary death.. With Se PolR, an EII may have a harder time in initiating the action (Suicide is not a good thing.. I hate how I am speaking of it in a way that almost sounds as if it is good).

[chriscorey]

Whilst an EII certainly can take of their life and they probably are a more common type seen in suicide completion, I would argue Suggestive Se makes it easier for taking one's life, since it requires the action to do such, and Ni base may sort of view it as a temporary death.. With Se PolR, an EII may have a harder time in initiating the action (Suicide is not a good thing.. I hate how I am speaking of it in a way that almost sounds as if it is good).

Well Sylvia Plath stuck her head in an oven. Again, do you have statistics and proof to back what you're saying. Or are you just theorizing from your perspective of Se PoLR?I would argue less control of Se for a Se PoLR.

[Braingel]

Not only with the pattern seen in celebrities, but I see how it also is pathologically easier for an IEI to commit suicide, given the pattern, and also with how the world rejects beta values, and disparages people weaker in Te. The world is very Te-like, and the educational and economical systems indicate of such. It always is the same pattern where the IEI kills their self in their late teens or early twenties, a time when society demands people my age act "more adult", which is far harder for us, since with our Ni, we innately are dreamy and inside our own heads.. Society expects one magically become more Te at the turning of eighteen, and those of us who cannot amount to such, face grave hardship.

All those sample are male, interestingly, and they are more feeling, rejected for being "sensitive" and "emotional".. And with Se as suggestive, things like drugs can be easier do, and the thrill it takes to actually take one's life, that intense action, can be seen as needing a value of Se.

Suicide to an Ni base, would seem temporary, not permanent, given we perceive time and most of us know there is far more than a single life.. And with Se as suggestive, things like substance abuse come easier, and the thrill needed for the action of taking life, the intensive action that is impulse, can be seen as needing value Se to be more likely in a follow through. More likely however, does not mean it always is case.

[Braingel]

At the very least, one can infer that a 1 dimensional Te is more likely in the committing of suicide, always indicative that society is more built for that which is Te.

[chriscorey]

Not only with the pattern seen in celebrities, but I see how it also is pathologically easier for an IEI to commit suicide, given the pattern, and also with how the world rejects beta values, and disparages people weaker in Te. The world is very Te-like, and the educational and economical systems indicate of such. It always is the same pattern where the IEI kills their self in their late teens or early twenties, a time when society demands people my age act "more adult", which is far harder for us, since with our Ni, we innately are dreamy and inside our own heads.. Society expects one magically become more Te at the turning of eighteen, and those of us who cannot amount to such, face grave hardship.


All those sample are male, interestingly, and they are more feeling, rejected for being "sensitive" and "emotional"..

Suicide to an Ni base, would seem temporary, not permanent, given we perceive time and most of us know there is far more than a single life..

people commit suicide for lots different reasons and that's a whole other topic. Se is just as important as Te theoretically. You're theorizing but you have no statistical proof that Te is more important than Se or that more Te PoLR kill themselves because if it.

[Braingel]

Where did you read that most poets are IEI? Are there valid statistics on this? I need to see the proof.

Look at the people who are famous poets, and again, the literal nickname for the IEI is "the lyricist". Whereas for an EII, it is "the humanist". The IEI is named after poet Sergie Yesenin, whereas EII is of the fiction writer, Dostovesky. IEI is correspondent with the enneagram 4, which is known as the poet.. Whereas EII is more oftentimes the enneagrams 6 and 9 (but can also be SP4).

[Braingel]

It lies with the difference of Fi and Fe. Poetry often can be an outlet in which to outpour emotion, and Ni can give its poetic insight to channel through Fe, and thus make of poetry.. Whereas Fi-Ne may more likely look for ways to explore of oneself... Rather than express.. Though poetry can also help one to explore, and that probably would be the most likely motivation of an EII poet.

[Braingel]

people commit suicide for lots different reasons and that's a whole other topic. Se is just as important as Te theoretically. You're theorizing but you have no statistical proof that Te is more important than Se or that more Te PoLR kill themselves because if it.

Yes, as I said, any type can commit suicide. I am merely looking from the trends of society, with what most frequently is seen of who commits suicide, and also with how society is structured. This almost seems more LIE, this wanting see statistical evidence.. But I am essentially piecing together things. I am not looking at stats, as much as I am connecting dot.

[Marep]

beta just is again, least common

Source?

[chriscorey]

Look at the people who are famous poets, and again, the literal nickname for the IEI is "the lyricist". Whereas for an EII, it is "the humanist". The IEI is named after poet Sergie Yesenin, whereas EII is of the fiction writer, Dostovesky. IEI is correspondent with the enneagram 4, which is known as the poet.. Whereas EII is more oftentimes the enneagrams 6 and 9 (but can also be SP4).

That doesn't prove more IEI are poets. It also can depend on what kind of poetry said poet is writing. But again there are no statistics on this. And you're not mentioning all the EII poets and lyricists and I know there's a lot. One of my favorites being Layne Staley

[Braingel]

Since Socionics is not scientific, there probably would not anyhow be many stats.. Perhaps maybe in Russia, but those would be harder access.

[Braingel]

Source?

Look at how society is structured, and look at what society values and disparages at a majority. Not everything needs a source. And with Socionics not being a science, there will not be as many stats concerning of such. Plus, if society was mostly beta, it would look a lot different..

[Braingel]

Before sources even can attain, one will need to observe and view anyhow, the trends.. And since Socionics is not a science, it would anyhow be first step to observe.

[chriscorey]

Since Socionics is not scientific, there probably would not anyhow be many stats.. Perhaps maybe in Russia, but those would be harder access.

Which is why I don't make blanket statements claiming that one type suffers more than the other. Statistics gets pretty complicated, btw....

[Braingel]

Which is why I don't make blanket statements claiming that one type suffers more than the other. Statistics gets pretty complicated, btw....

I don't think one type suffers more at a general, it changes with time, but the type that is least prevalent and built for society in that period will have more a prevalence of people who suffer within that type. Any type can suffer, but you may see higher percent of people falling under that type who suffer..

[Braingel]

You for instance, will see a higher people with autism suffering than neurotypical people. Because the world is not built for autistic people. Autistic people are 3 times more likely than NT's, to commit of suicide. Same concept for least prevalent type, way it is not built as for. NT people still can and do suffer, but it is more common to see a suffering autistic, than is of an NT person.

[chriscorey]

I don't think one type suffers more at a general, it changes with time, but the type that is least prevalent and built for society in that period will have more a prevalence of people who suffer within that type. Any type can suffer, but you may see higher percent of people falling under that type who suffer..

I'm willing to bet money that more Se PoLR are bullied more than Te PoLR.

I'm just trying to understand your point of view. What's so hard about being Te PoLR? Can you describe that for me?

[Braingel]

I'm willing to bet money that more Se PoLR are bullied than Te PoLR.

I'm just trying to understand your point of view. What's so hard about being Te PoLR? Can you describe that for me?

Well, society is built in a very Te way in most places in the world. America.. Germany also seems such.. China.. It all is Te, Te, Te-- the most populated places within world. It tries to drill, drill, drill. Tries make you "more efficient". It gets on you for being "lazy", for not being "effective", for not adding into its standard of educated and externally organized, and being good and skilled with externally logical things, as with handling money. You need money to live, which i do not yet, since I am not yet an independent, but point being, you cannot escape the need for money in our current world, and it is directly a te ordeal.

All the laws are primarily oriented towards Te, and devaluing of Fe. They limit Ni, and want cut away from visions, so that society does not overpower, and so that they do not lose control over us. they try and neuter Ni, which may be why Ni is the least common function. Jung even had said Ni is "the most useless function to society".. Children excise of their imagination by the time they reach 10, most times, and it is of the most heartbreaking things I know of what happens to others in this world collectively (outside of my own life). The whole shutting off of the "third eye"; the eye inside mine enabling vision and imagery, imagination..

And when the world is all Te and you are not good at it and do not of it value, it bogs you down when all is Te, Te, Te, TE, TE!!!

[Braingel]

I like to explain things through pattern and trend, not as much statistic, and yet I never will seriously be taken in a te world if I live and process by that, and so I cannot communicate in my way of nature to others and am cut off. Poetry is my only respite.. Even for books I am writing, i will need incorporate some Te, given I plan impact of our government. I need play their game back at them to have any success.

[Braingel]

That is yet another reason why Te PolR, specifically IEI, may favor poetry; it is way to communicate our innate way of getting insight and pattern and symbolism, in a way that does not require the usage of Te and stats, and we can try change others through emotion and through storytelling.

[chriscorey]

Well, society is built in a very Te way in most places in the world. America.. Germany also seems such.. China.. It all is Te, Te, Te-- the most populated places within world. It tries to drill, drill, drill. Tries make you "more efficient". It gets on you for being "lazy", for not being "effective", for not adding into its standard of educated and externally organized, and being good and skilled with externally logical things, as with handling money. You need money to live, which i do not yet, since I am not yet an independent, but point being, you cannot escape the need for money in our current world, and it is directly a te ordeal.

All the laws are primarily oriented towards Te, and devaluing of Fe. They limit Ni, and want cut away from visions, so that society does not overpower, and so that they do not lose control over us. they try and neuter Ni, which may be why Ni is the least common function. Jung even had said Ni is "the most useless function to society".. Children excise of their imagination by the time they reach 10, most times, and it is of the most heartbreaking things I know of what happens to others in this world collectovely (outside of my own life).

Those artists you mentioned were rich and no longer had to handle money etc... do you know why they killed themselves?

anyway as a society we're expected to work which is Te an Se.

I have a question. statistically what's the number one reason people kill themselves? I'd go with money, but I'm guessing. My dad is IEI and he doesn't care about money.

[Braingel]

EII may get pushed around more by higher Se types, or even just assertive personality in general, but you cannot escape the everyday need of money or with needing back things up with stats, whereas you can avoid of aggressive or assertive people. But you cannot money and stats unless you run off to live in wild, which I have before tried doing until my mother took away all my machetes I had gotten with her credit card.. I tried doing it before I turned 18..

[Braingel]

An EII can go to a zen monastery or to a nice mountain town with a placid community.. But an IEI (or SEI), almost anywhere they will go, will be faced by money and by stats.. And Te authority. We too can live in monastery of course, but that will strain of our Se sug (for IEI), and for SEI, their Ne.

[Braingel]

You can escape Se PolR flare up easier than can for Te, with how society currently is structured. This can change. A war can outbreak, and then the Se will always have their PolR triggered..

[chriscorey]

EII may get pushed around more by higher Se types, or even just assertive personality in general, but you cannot escape the everyday need of money or with needing back things up with stats, whereas you can avoid of aggressive or assertive people. But you cannot money and stats unless you run off to live in wild, which I have before tried doing until my mother took away all my machetes I had gotten with her credit card.. I tried doing it before I turned 18..

what's the last grade you graduated? You must at least understand basic math(my IEI dad does). And why are you placing so much importance on making "LOTS" of money if you're IEI?

My IEI dad likes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes

he doesn't fret over money...

[Braingel]

In an outbreak of warfare, Se PolR LII and EII would probably be most abundant in suicide. Whereas Se suggestive IEI and ILI, we would thrive with the pressure, and with Ni, see to the future and focus on the thereafter.

[Braingel]

what's the last grade you graduated? You must at least understand basic math(my IEI dad does). And why are you placing so much importance on making "LOTS" of money if you're IEI?

My IEI dad likes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes

he doesn't fret over money...

11th grade is my highest completion.

[Braingel]

I do not focus on money, I don't even like it and wish it to eradicate, though currency is necessary, given others will steal or take whatever wants

[chriscorey]

11th grade is my highest completion.

My dad finished 9th.

You should read about Diogenes ...You might like him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes