You are probably most likely an IEI...
You are pretty similar to me in some ways, even though we probably have completely different interests or even personalities.
I'd suppose an E4, although you don't particularly seem either w3 or w5, but you don't really seem like a w5.
Cassandra made a thread with a very similar reasoning and wording
What about balanced wings?
Depends on which discourse of Enneagram you use. I personally prefer 3 for you, you're more image-conscious than a knowledge seeker. But then again, your estimation counts and when you think you relate to both, that's ok. What you can do is looking at what characterises you more: wanting to be outstanding/excelling/efficient or wanting to be perceptive/knowing/observant.Originally Posted by Starfall
Okay, you asked me to give some reasoning for my typing of you as ESI-2Fi.
I found it tricky to mention something out of thin air, so I just comment on what you said here.
Stereotypical ESI strengths.
IEIs (and some EIIs) try to imitate that with their Si Role (or HA), but often struggle with it to an extent. It doesn't come easy to them. The IEI-Fe (or EII-Fi) has it easier, having boosted Si, but they pale in comparison to the ESI's sense of style and "upkeep". All this could make you think you could be IEI-Fe after all, but you said yourself how you sometimes think your Fe is "weak". If one compares you to someone like Chae who uses more Fe in her contributions, yours is much more likely Ignoring. Not weak, but not really in the forefront. The way you need to "warm up" to people, and then you can be more gregarious, is another stereotypical ESI trait. First, people need to "penetrate" their (often mistrustful) -Fi wall and win their trust, and then they will be "blessed" with the softer, warmer side of the ESI.
Sounds like (boosted) Ni HA (in combination with the above).
This makes 4w5 more likely, as I mentioned before.
As a whole, I'd say that you being ESI makes you feel like you have w3 traits, being Se Creative and Te seeking (as far as I know, most 4w3 are ESI btw), but your actual wing is 5. (That is probably another factor as to why you can relate to IEI well.) And that is why you feel like you are "balanced" wings-wise. (Btw, with a strong Fi subtype, you won't "feel" like your Se is strong, especially when you spend a lot of time on your own, "indulging" in your Ni HA. However, you know how to "pressure" people and don't shy away from doing so, which speaks for Se Creative.)
Signs of SO blindspot + High introversion.
I find that to be a rather ESI Type 4 thing to do; to talk about personal issues, and one's feelings about things that happened in the day, or is currently going on, etc.
Though this isn't the strongest argument for you being ESI ofc, the other pointers are more significant.
So there you go. A glimpse into how I think.
I think the woman in the video is an IEI-Fe. I watched most of it, and she presents and has facial expressions like the IEI Astrophysicist I've dated. She has unusually strong Ti, even to the point of briefly resembling an LII. It is a pity that posting her pictures would be unethical, because they look a lot alike.
The few pics I've seen of Starfall look IEI-2Ni to me. Like she's completely in a world of her own imagining, only briefly visiting this world to observe before retreating back to Otherwhen.
What about EII or IEE?
- Wide area of interests
- Not interested in self-expression unless with people you feel comfortable with
- Out-of-tune with your body
- Etc etc etc
I disagree with Beta NF and my initial reaction of ESI, but I can definitely see Delta NF. I'm leaning towards IEE for you.
If I had to guess at Stars type id say, Tall Mediterranean looking tan white men with some androgynous features and an overbearingly self absorbed personality.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
IEIs do not exist. Everyone of them is an INFP. I'll show you:
INFJ /=INFP MBTI dichotomies
INFJ likes to point out how much more decisive they are than INFP, which is the distinguishing factor
INFJ reads Ni descriptions. It makes perfect sense, but Ni makes one indecisive, if only on the inside, while at the same time somehow confident in what one knows.
INFJ reads EII description, which is the conscientious INF. This is how INFJs like to be seen by others.
EII has Fi as a dominant function and Ne as aux. Things aren't making any fucking sense. How did I get here?
EII is MBTI INFP says lots of people.
INFJ = INFP
INFJ questions all of reality and gets either wet or has a boner
Has an existential crisis
Realizes it is all a matter of perspective
Laughs about the irony
Goes to bed dreaming of dragons and a graveyard filled with puzzling epitaphs
Wakes up the next day and has coffee with a friend
Wonders what last night's dream signified.
Starfall, I think IEI fits nicely for you. Ni dom anyways.
Those are not incompatible with IEI really... many traits of IEIs, EIIs and IEEs are so similar that they easily overlap with each other. NFs in general are very similar to each other. It's no wonder that MBTI focused on those clubs so much.
And what Starfall has said isn't that far off from the IEI descriptions, really...:
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ile_by_Gulenko
I wonder what type you think I am (sorry, more towards Cassandra), since I typically don't have much Fe in my writing... I think people would often mistake me as EII, LII or LSI... Not my type thread though lol.
Last edited by Singu; 02-04-2017 at 02:38 PM.
Comparative demonstration needed?
ROFL at the gif. I love your Fe so much, Chae.Comparative demonstration needed?
I'm curious, what's the difference between Cassandra's and Starfall's Fe displays? As far as i noticed during my short time here honestly I think they are quite similar, only that Cassandra is more openly theoretical.
Or in other words, I am more Ti HA than she is.ROFL at the gif. I love your Fe so much, Chae.
I'm curious, what's the difference between Cassandra's and Starfall's Fe displays? As far as i noticed during my short time here honestly I think they are quite similar, only that Cassandra is more openly theoretical.
I find her Ti HA to be non-existent. Where are her efforts to understand theoretical systems as closely as possible (e.g learning the true essence of the IEs and not just generalized descriptions of types, see above), or come up with theoretical models, rankings, and so forth? Another example would be delving deeper into theories pertaining to the unconscious, like the Imago. IEI-Fe won't have such a good grasp on their Ti HA, but they'll still try. If Starfall was truly IEI-Ni, her Ti HA would be much more obvious (and stronger), but it is not.
Our Fe displays may be sort of similar, because both the Fe of ESI and IEI are +Fe and 3D.
Also, us both being 4w5 and IxFx makes us appear more similar, too.
At last, I want to make clear I do not want to make this a comparison battle between me and her.
You were the one who brought it up, so I felt compelled to reply.
Moriii my praise-o-meter just exploded at your kind presence hdklsj...ROFL at the gif. I love your Fe so much, Chae..gif "squeeze")
I forgot to add one other thing. There is another test for IEI-Ni-ness.
Look at your left thumb-nail, and see if it glistens green. @Aylen, @Starfall, @Cassandra, and a few others can pass this test, I'm sure.
They'd also enjoy this story, because it was written by one of their own:
http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/green.htm
I just re-read it, and it might be a story about IEI-SLE duality. I think it demonstrates some themes of that duality.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-04-2017 at 02:34 PM.
Yes, but there's difference when Starfall mentions she values open-mindedness and continuously focuses on Ne aspects. There is only a little Ni in her description of herself, for instance, when she says she can tie up the past to predict what will happen. I do this a lot too, but I don't pay much attention to it and I really do depreciate this aspect of myself. I simply don't pay it any attention. With her continuous suppression of Ni aspects and appraisal of Ne aspects, I'd say that she is strong in both areas but disregards Ni in favor of Ne.
She also focuses on many Fi aspects vs. Fe aspects, but seems to place greater value in Fi as opposed to self-expression and the freedom of emotion (Fe). She says she focuses on personal relationships and strengthening these emotional bonds, but does understand the need and use of Fe when she feels the situation fits.
Ni, Fi, Ne, & Fe are all strong in her, but it's the aspects she focuses on more that reveals her type to me.
I haven't heard much about you but maybe someday
@Cassandra Thank you for the explanation. That's very constructive. I'm really sorry my comment is uncalled for, I simply want to truly understand the contrasts between the manifestation of IEs between people.
How is she Ne Polr and Se creative?
Yeah but that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about. It's like who doesn't value open-mindedness? Especially the NFs. Liberal-minded people tend to value open-mindedness. But I would say that yes, Beta NFs have a tendency to narrow down instead of expand.
Also about personal relationships... who doesn't value those things? I think most feelers do in general, especially if they're women. I think the problem is we tend to stereotype those things too much and focus on just one aspect and isolate the others. But I'm also guilty of doing this.
Yeah sorry, I meant you as in general, or more like Cassandra. But it's not really important.I haven't heard much about you but maybe someday
If you know someone whose thumbnail is naturally green, maybe they should see a doctor?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_nail_syndrome
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Considering T integrates perceptions and L integrates the understanding into a consistent framework, I think it's safe to say that Beta NFs don't care for open-mindedness. (More so the IEIs than the EIEs though)
Does being liberal-minded have to be a Beta NF thing? I’ve met plenty of Alphas who are liberal. Yes, the ideology may sway certain types or provide common ground between them, but I don’t think it’s enough to say “Oh, you’re a Republican? You must be Beta.”
Gammas, Gamma SFs in particular, are notorious for the “INFJ door-slam”; otherwise known as cutting people out of their lives who they deem untrustworthy. Is that not a relationship-based judgment?
Muahahaha I likes this thread now, its like an open forum for everyone to talk about what conceptual lines they find blurry.
Exercise: start at the hypothetical position that your idea for her type is wrong, then evaluate your rationale. What did you interpret incorrectly?
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
SF has a few years on you and I would guess way more experience. You created the imago thread but I don't remember it being your own hypothesis. You do present hypothesis now and then and although interesting, if someone has experience that contradicts them, they are less likely to find any value in them. My ESE sister throws out hypothesis all the time. She is not very theoretical though. Just because someone isn't participating in your threads or posting their own hypothesis doesn't mean they do not use their HA. Ti is not limited to speculating on socionics or relationships.She has been here, like 10 years, I am sure she has moved on to other subjects over the years.
Two types have Ti HA, as you know.Ti as Mobilizing Function
The individual seeks clarity in his system of beliefs and understanding and enjoys entertaining new concepts and being included in philosophical discussions where new concepts and systems of thought are introduced. He is uncertain of the logical clarity backing his actions, and thus seeks external assistance in attaining a degree of reasonable competence in this realm. Structure is sought as more of a means to an end, a background guide to facilitate the growth of the individual's main goal.
Introverted Logic (Ti,)
SEIs seek clarity in their system of beliefs and understanding. They may seek to reinforce and expand their base of knowledge by assimilating information in the form of easy-to-remember models or systems. They may be inclined to developing models and belief systems based on large amounts of data that they have personally processed or personal experience; it can be difficult to dissuade them from or convince them to reevaluate the beliefs that they develop in this way, or to introduce additional variables into the conceptual equations that they produce. SEIs may be very adept at organizing data, and sometime can exhibit a meticulous fascination in the numbers and conceptualizations that they derive from it.
SEIs are anxious to satisfy themselves that they have already learned enough on a subject to reach definitive conclusions, and dislike the idea that acquiring expertise in a given subject is a never-ending process rather than a step. They may dislike having it pointed out, or demonstrated, that their understanding and expertise was not as definitive as they had concluded.Anyone could cherry pick your behavior and conclude that you are not IEI too. This is why I usually tend to keep my mouth shut when I disagree with someone's type. I learned that early on here.Introverted Logic (Ti,
IEIs often have a keen interest in interpreting their surroundings in terms of logical categories. They may be drawn to descriptive logical systems and models, which ground IEIs' oft-scattered thought processes and help them to focus on somewhat more tangible ideas. IEIs' often exhibit a tendency to organize their thoughts in a deliberate, methodical manner -- though they rarely are inclined to regiment their lives in this way, their ideas are often subject to systemic associations, sometimes extensively so.
IEIs may tend to brood and dubitate over logical categories rather than generate their own; their intellectual musings are often more observational, causal, and open-ended than those of Ti ego types. IEIs' insights are highly internal, and frequently prove difficult to disambiguate and elucidate properly. They may be inclined to circumlocutory tangents and lengthy illustrations that fail to address the intended point completely, sometimes presenting information in an overly vague and ambiguous manner. Many IEIs do not naturally think in a structured fashion, and the introduction of clarity and consistency helps to organize and refocus their jumbled cogitations.
Many IEIs suffer from hesitation and uncertainty about the ultimate accuracy of their views. They also may be inclined to assimilate information indiscriminately from an eclectic and sometimes unreliable range of sources, which can in the long run serve to further their confusion. They appreciate a sense of certainty in others; they may appreciate the unfailing assuredness of the beliefs of their SLE duals, whose tenacity and confidence free them from their plaguing doubts.
If they ask I might tell them or I might keep it to myself. I would certainly feel them out first to see if they are truly receptive. I figure that they will discover it on their own, eventually. I don't tend to type people who don't want to be typed either, publicly. Sometimes I am painfully aware I might be wrong, no matter how confident I may appear to be. I hate eating my own words. :/
As we both know, you typed me ESI too right after I asked you why you typed all the self typed female IEI, ESI. Then when I asked you about it you said it had something to do with a statement about me at a club. This is not seeing the forest for the trees type thinking.
Edit: I don't want you to feel ganged up on here but you misunderstand how other people's minds work. Not all IEI-Ni are going to be a carbon copy of you. You are not even an exemplar of the type. I don't think there is an exemplar here.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
@Starfall if you forget to eat, it's not so likely that you are sp first. sp=food. I know one sp 4 who says she goes long periods of time before she eats so it will taste extra good when she does eat
Btw you're not w5 like cassandra says. I could give you multiple reasons but I think you already know that you aren't. Cassandra isn't either w5.
^
I agree. For example ghost looks like she never forgets to eat, therefore sp first.
It is a false assumption that all SP first people will always focus on eating properly.
The first instinct is somewhat imbalanced (because of the rather neurotic focus on it), and that can result in unhealthy attitudes, almost akin to the blindspot.
I know of SP first people who hardly sleep (like just 4 hours a day at times), or who eat poorly, or who indulge in alcohol, or who exercise excessively.
All of that speaks against the stereotype that SP first will always care about their health in a proper manner.
In the same vein, SO first people can act anti-social or asocial when they are unhealthy, or many SX first individuals either become excessively promiscuous or hardcore celibate after a bad break-up.
Another example: anglas looks like he never has sex, therefore sx last.
it's so easy to trigger youAnother example: anglas looks like he never has sex, therefore sx last.
huh?
Yeah, this reminds me of my LSI-2Ti Sp/Sx friend who is the exact same way in that regard.
/Crowd applauds violently at myth-busting excellence/
Enjoying eating and feeling hunger (and all kinds of physical sensations including pain) is a part of SP though. although 4s are really out of touch with their bodies
I don't go by general descriptions that try to encompass all people of a type, when typing others.Hmm
Try reading over the Gulenko IEI type description, @Cassandra. It pretty much argues all of your points and fits me 100% (other than the marriage for convenience thing lol). Unless of course you believe Gulenko was actually talking about ESI 4's.
Thank you @Singularity for pointing this out.
I focus on which IEs and functions someone displays (or doesn't), as I have shown earlier. Because that is what a type is all about. Their IEs and functions. As you know, people of one type can be different Enneagram types and stackings. Most Socionics type descriptions that are general and not function-specific will focus on one "kind" of that type, usually one specific Enneagram type. For instance, most SLE descriptions are very Type 8, to the point that almost every 8 will be able to relate to some of the description aspects, even though they aren't SLE themselves. That is why I find general type descriptions problematic, and being able to relate to certain parts of it not necessarily a good indication of actually being that sociotype (but rather that Enneagram type, likely).
So, I don't have much to say about his description here. Gulenko's descriptions aren't perfect, though I am mostly okay with them. I remember his LSI description was sort of problematic and could mix up with SLI, and his ESI description was rather E6-like. Furthermore, he mistyped an SX 6 woman I know as EIE but she is EII, so again, he isn't perfect. (In his defense, she is a difficult case, and a lot of SX 6s get mistyped as Extroverts ime.) Doesn't mean I don't value some of his theories and contributions, but I don't believe everything he says is 100% accurate and applicable to every person and situation.
I'm mostly done with this discussion, in the sense I won't try to explain myself more. I have mentioned the main points already.
If you continue to self-type as IEI, that is fine with me. It's your life.
Sorry @Cassandra, I accidentally added your post rather than quoted it because I'm in a hurry.
Because you create your own made up ones
"I'm not like this so you CAN'T be IEI. IEI's only dress like bland librarians because that's how I am"
Hello, second Maritsa.
Make up whatever excuse you want to argue my valid points. It's obvious that you already have it set in your mind that I am ESI, no matter what I say or what proof I give to explain why that type is all wrong. You are exactly like Maritsa. You tried to tip-toe eat around each one of my explinations with your own bullshit theories and generalizations. Have fun living in your own made-up nutty bubble. You are like talking to a stubborn wall, and there is honestly no use and explaining things to you because you will reach to find a bullshit excuse to invalidate my points. You still haven't explained how I am strong in Se or how Ne is my PoLR or how I am good with Ni, or how I'm IJ temperament, because you can't. lol
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
ITT to mention that Ti-valuing /= intellectual. @Cassandra seems more into analysing things in general, and *taking pride in doing so*, whereas @Starfall seems less inclined to use intellectualising as a social token. Starfall also seems a bit less inclined to share the structure of her inner world as opposed to the latest experience, and by extension less inclined to share whatever theorising she may do.
Contrast @golden who is nothing if not straight out of the intelligentsia(tm), and yet in theory has 1D Ti.
[/2c]
Reason is a whore.
Lmao fucking shit. Cassandra the life guru.
SF is definitely IEI-Ni.
Cassandra, I often confuse your posts with Marista when I am scrolling through the forum. Perhaps you are EII?...
*edit. I didn't see that the Marista-likeness was already mentioned in this thread until after I typed the above. heh.
??????? I don't see myself that way, but okay, noted.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
I expect you wouldn't. 'Intelligentsia' does have strong connotations of social class, which aren't what I was thinking of here, but nonetheless muddle up the comparison.
Your written statements come across as analytical and concerned about social structures (even before the obvious recent debacle in politics) and generally clever, and *worded cleverly*, and concerned about the concerns and direction of culture, etc. [/'and']
Reason is a whore.
Posting Permissions
