Originally Posted by Kim
Sometimes memes say a lot...
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
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it's not the immigrants, it's the lefties who let them in.
they should ignore the vote, stay the course in the EU and use this as an example every time someone forgets that direct democracy is stupid.
Awful possibility in these matters is both men sustaining mortal injury... but I'm never that lucky.
LSI
They are inefficient and send out completely the wrong signal.
Yeah, I would agree with you there.
In addition, English is the common language of Europe (whether in the European Parliament, the internet, or day-to-day life).
While it may be possibly be true that people at the periphery of Europe may feel less European, polling actually shows that people in France are more anti-EU than the British (and in Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Ireland, they are rather more pro-EU). (I think the stereotype of the British being culturally anti-Europe is so ingrained that even recently, I remember a French eurocrat espousing the view).
The result was 51.9% Leave, 48.1% Remain: a significant result, but hardly one representative of a clear anti-EU sentiment. The support for Remain was also highest amongst the young, who will be most affected by the result in the future:
The turnout for 18 to 28 year olds is only supposed to have been about 36% (compared to 83% for 65 years and older), and those aged 16 or 17 years of age were not allowed to vote, unlike the Scottish independence referendum in 2014. If the turnout for young people had been as high as for older people (and the additional voters had voted the same way), Remain would have won. Although I think the result should be upheld, I do not think it was a clear win for Leave. The danger of basing the decisions of a country on very infrequent referendums is that they provide little opportunity for tinkering to the specific wishes of the country at any one moment.
In addition, bad weather in a national poll can really badly screw things up in a close race. In London on the day of the referendum there was heavy rain for much of the day. This is significant because London overall heavily favoured Remain.
It was pointed out at the time that Farage's poster was strikingly similar to Nazi propaganda of the 1930s;
https://www.facebook.com/matt.haig.9...54340383938760
(I don't necessarily agree with the implied sentiment of all of the points)
https://www.fitchratings.com/site/pr...ase?id=1008074The UK vote to leave the European Union in the referendum on 23 June will have a negative impact on the UK economy, public finances and political continuity.
Fitch believes that uncertainty following the referendum outcome will induce an abrupt slowdown in short-term GDP growth, as businesses defer investment and consider changes to the legal and regulatory environment. While recognising the uncertainty of the extent of the negative shock, Fitch has revised down its forecast for real GDP growth to 1.6% in 2016 (from 1.9%), 0.9% in 2017 and 0.9% in 2018 (both from 2.0% respectively), leaving the level of real GDP a cumulative 2.3% lower in 2018 than in its prior 'Remain' base case.
Medium-term growth will also likely be weaker due to less favourable terms for exports to the EU, lower immigration and a reduction in foreign direct investment. An adjustment in the value of sterling and changes in the business environment could also affect growth.
The extent of the medium-term economic shock will mainly depend on the nature of any future trade agreement with the EU, by far the UK's largest export market. Statements by UK and EU leaders will provide some guidance on the UK government's policy objectives, the likelihood of achieving them and the timeframe for negotiation. However, Prime Minister David Cameron has indicated that negotiations with the EU will not begin in earnest until 4Q16, and the final position may well not be known for several years.
Weaker economic growth will adversely affect tax revenue and the budget deficit and require the government to implement additional fiscal consolidation measures to prevent it missing its fiscal targets. We expect the general government deficit to average 3.6% of GDP over the next three years, compared with 2.8% in our prior 'Remain' base case. This implies that the general government debt ratio will continue rising over the forecast horizon, reaching 91% of GDP in 2017, compared with the debt ratio stabilising previously. Public sector indebtedness remains among the highest of 'AA' and 'AAA' range sovereigns. At the same time, the long average maturity of public debt almost exclusively GBP-denominated and low interest service burden imply a higher level of debt tolerance than many high-rated peers.
The outcome of the referendum has precipitated political upheaval, including the announced resignation of the Prime Minister, contributing to heightened uncertainty over government economic policies and diminished scope for policy implementation at the current conjuncture.
Furthermore, the fact that a majority of voters in Scotland opted for 'Remain' makes a second referendum on Scottish independence more probable in the short to medium term. The Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has indicated that a second referendum on Scottish independence is "highly likely". A vote for independence would be negative for the UK's rating, as it would lead to a rise in the ratio of government debt/GDP, increase the size of the UK's external balance sheet and potentially generate uncertainty in the banking system, for example in the event of uncertainty over Scotland's currency arrangement.
The UK's 'AA' IDRs also reflect the following key rating drivers:
The UK's ratings benefit from a high-income, diversified and flexible economy. A credible macroeconomic policy framework and sterling's international reserve currency status further support the ratings.
The current account remained high in 2015, at 5.2% of GDP, almost unchanged from the previous year. In addition to a structurally negative trade balance, the income balance has turned negative, recording deficits of almost 2% of GDP in the past two years. There is the risk that the financing of the current account may become more expensive. At the same time, we are confident of the ability of UK banks to fund themselves in foreign currency.
Banks are liquid and were well prepared to withstand market volatility that could limit their access to funding for a period of time. Central bank funding provides them with a further line of defence in case of more protracted market closure. Banks have an aggregate Tier 1 capital ratio of 13.8%, higher than the Bank of England's view on steady state capital requirements of around 11%.
I got an idea, all you people who love muslims should take them into your house. I'm sure you all will get along just fine. If you're white also make sure to take a few black thugs in too. Give them all a nice big hug for me.
I hate the term nationalism, cause people throw it around as a blanket term and in people's heads it always registered as something representing xenophobia.
From the wikipedia: Nationalism is a shared group feeling in the significance of a geographical and sometimes demographic region seeking independence for its culture or ethnicity that holds that group together.
By that definition all nationalism is, is a propensity to gravitate towards local-ism as opposed to globalism. There are things that are far more easier to control with local-ism than globalism.... also local-ism is far more stable/secure. Look at what is happening with the EU, one country leaves and the whole thing is at risk of falling apart. With many policy decisions the EU is like doing surgery with a mallet or hacksaw, whereas a more local government can make much more fluid changes to the surrounding environments... which is more akin to doing surgery with a scalpel. Nationalism need not represent the North Korea ideal. It is such a loaded word. Now in terms of things like having excessive pride and patriotism and all that dumb shit... yes I dislike that immensely. Having more control at the local level does not equate to that though.
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
I used to hang out with "black thugs" when my ex was a member of a black MC in Compton. They were really nice people. A lot more pleasant than the racist white douchebags I have encountered (that would include you).
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
The whole muslim hating thing I disagree with, though it's kind of understandable in a way for people that don't understand how diverse the religion is It is a very difficult issue to deal with properly.
The lack of knowledge on religion is the reason that Israel is able to get away with half of the shit they are able to get away with in regards to Palestine. I don't think most people for one know the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite and I've heard FN and other news groups trying to group together Hezbollah with the other terrorist groups and it's not even comparable. Then even the Sunni's are quite diverse in their interpretation of the Qu'ran, and I suppose it all comes down to the contradictory nature of the Qu'ran passages. Certain groups are quite peaceful, while others advocate violence. And this is a very difficult thing to sift through and figure out which ones are which. So its very easy to understand people on both sides of the fence of this argument. Most muslims are in fact peaceful, but it only takes a couple of them to actually put together a terrorist attack. So if you are importing them by the thousands, you're quite likely to get a few bad eggs in the mix.
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
There's a difference between hating a religion (or another ideology) and hating people who happen to have that religion. Hating people for their "race", nationality, or personality type without knowing anything about them is most unsatisfactory.
I believe that most people who call themselves Muslims are peaceful and unlikely to ever kill anybody.
However, it is difficult to deny that Muslims admire an individual (as part of the first pillar of Islam) who created one of the most violent and intolerant ideologies ever devised. The Koran's passages that tell Muslims to kill polytheists and "wrong-doers" (which includes heretics, pagans, atheists, homosexuals...and so on) without mercy are perfectly clear, as is the order to inflict terror on the opponents of Allah by cutting off heads and fingtertips etc.
I think it's a quite complicated issue, and tbh extreme viewpoints tend to dominate the issue regardless of which side. You usually either have the person that's like, "Muslim's are peaceful... lets just let them all come and go as they please"(which at a base level I want, I don't feel as though most of these people deserve the ridicule that they receive... and in a lot of situations they are almost talked about as if they are subhuman) and then you have the people that just want to ban Muslims as they believe the religion in itself is dangerous. I do think there is a middle ground that we have to find, and we as a society don't really discuss it in the way to find effective solutions. There is too much 'all or none' and not enough practical reasoning.
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
Polls of the opinions of Muslims in Western countries show that the proportion that have harsh or draconian views on homosexuals, women, atheists etc. are alarmingly common. If you have 50% of a community, especially a ghettoized community, as often happens, holding such views, it is difficult to see Islam as anything other than a very real threat to society.
If you knew of a group that admired the actions of Osama Bin Laden, it would be difficult to see the group as anything other than terrorist sympathizers. Yet with Islam, wider society often readily accepts the narrative of Islam as a peaceful religion, with peaceful adherents...with "a few bad eggs that are not representative", despite this being completely contrary to the qur'an and Muhammad, who were both very violent and hateful.
Two words: we won
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
Colonialism is just simply going to be a part of Western Civilization that will not ever go away and, I would argue, that's a good thing. Look, who gave the most benefit of the doubt to the outsider? The Foreigner? The PoC? The contrarian viewpoint? Yeah, I thought so. The White man is open to the outsider in a way nobody else seems to be.
Given that... for some fucked up reason in other countries the more pale you are the more sexually desirable you are. I mean fucking hell, upper chaste Indians and Wealthy Chinese just to name a few attribute "White" skin to social status. The "whiter" you are, the higher up in the social class you tend to be. It ain't like we actively promoted that cultural norm, they imposed it upon themselves. I know a family that has their kid teaching English in China. He just married a Chinese girl and the Chinese parents couldn't be happier because, given how much whiter he is than her it means their kids will be of a much paler shade. And they celebrate this. As a Western Male familiar with what 14/88 means and how racist both Whites and Asians can get, well, forgive me for being very confused. You'd think those racist as all hell Asians would condemn race mixing with the Western Gaijin but apparently no, they welcome it! Fucking hell man, I just don't even know how to think anymore. Nothing makes sense to me in a good way anymore.
News: Article 50 will be triggered in March 2017 for a 2-year exit programme
Bye-bye Europe!
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
I'm likely in the minority on this issue, but I think Brexit is probably a good thing for Britain. The fact is that there are way too many immigrants coming into Europe in general and the only way to cut them off is by leaving the EU because they can freely move from country to country within Europe because of the EU. I'm all for helping refugees that really need it, but you got to draw the line somewhere and letting in almost everyone into Europe is reckless. Open borders does not work in the long run, it will only cause economic strife because of letting in too many immigrants that cannot sustain and integrate themselves in their new country.
This does not mean that I'm anti-immigration and anti-refugee. For instance, in my country of Canada, Trudeau is letting in 50,000 Syrian refugees and many immigrants from around the world are allowed in general in Canada and I'm completely fine with this because refugees are being allowed in that truly need help and immigrants are being allowed in that can successfully sustain and integrate themselves into the country. What is happening in Europe is nothing like this, hundreds of thousands of immigrants are claiming to be refugees (outside of Syria and worn-torn nations) to get into Europe that will only end up exploiting the welfare system of generous European nations.
Brexit may cause some economic lapses for Britain in the short-term, but in the long-term the benefits outweigh the consequences for this country. Being for Brexit doesn't make someone neo-nazi, xenophobic, racist or extreme right wing as the media would like to paint it. I consider myself a centrist or moderate in general in terms of politics and I'm fine with controlled immigration and accepting refugees from specific war-torn nations like what is happening in Canada and USA, but not the uncontrolled refugee migrant crisis in Europe that will only cause economic strife and the displacement of culture of Europe. Extreme liberalism or egalitarianism that has resulted in open borders in Europe sounds great in theory, but in practice it's a terrible idea.
Last edited by Raver; 10-02-2016 at 03:07 PM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
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6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
I think on the whole, immigrants are a great resource for any country. The only issues are potentially letting in fundamentalists and being unable to cope with the numbers in the short to medium term due to increased pressure on services.
I think balance is the key. Let in immigrants that meet specific requirements and let in refugees from war torn countries such as Syria. Essentially, follow USA's and Canada's model. Europe on a whole is letting in almost everyone recklessly. There are too many long term consequences. Open borders is not the way to go. Hopefully, Britain follows that model.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Yeah, you can't just flood in a bunch of immigrants that equals 1/4 of the population of a country and not expect it to be basically destroyed. If you look at the history of America, when there was that massive flood of Germans, Irish, etc., at first there were seperate communities of them and English, but then the immigrants got "assimilated" which largely destroyed the "Anglo-Saxon" culture at the same time those other ones got destroyed (Americans, look at old Anglo-American culture and tell me just how much of it is familiar to you). The result of flooding immigrants into, say, Germany is that the culture will be ultimately neither Syrian nor German, especially with this weird superficial American pop culture that's spreading and cosmopolitanizing everything anyways. Immigration itself doesn't hurt and can even be helpful but rapid mass migrations of people are not really the same thing as just immigration but more akin to invasion. Something like Kiezdeutsch will probably become the real German if English history tells us anything, and other countries will probably have the same kind of thing happen there.
I'm not sure hastily pulling from the EU and wrecking the economy was a good idea, but I can't say I don't understand the sentiment behind it. People want their values to be passed on throughout time. The result of cosmopolitization tends to be that people largely stop concerning themselves with values, period. Going to the other extreme and becoming some sort of neo-Nazi is sort of a bad idea as well, to say the least, but I'm mostly just reminded of that quote from another thread regarding this:
image.jpeg
If you're in Europe, not a neo-Nazi and you care about values, go out and do something, please, or else the only people who have a chance are the cosmopolitans and the fascists.
image.jpeg
There's more where that came from.
Last edited by Pallas; 10-03-2016 at 04:07 PM.
I don't really care about immigration. I guess we need to reduce it but it's almost a non-issue for me. I voted Brexit because I don't want my country's laws to be made by other countries. That was non-negotiable, I'm afraid.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
Oh, I want Britain to leave the EU too, if you can't tell by my anti-cosmopolitanism, but I don't think the whole thing was very well planned-out. Having a wrecked economy is probably better than the United States of Europe in any case though.
The economy will be fine. Any minor decrease or increase in the next few years won't make much difference in the long-run.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
The EU is more relieved to be rid of you lot, to be honest.
I've always been fascinated by UK politics; to me exiting seems to their advantage in the long term. Real interesting to see how it pans out in the long run
The way the Continental bureaucrats have been treating the UK since Brexit has not been at all edifying. I suppose each side must play hardball to get the best deal for themselves, but their behaviour seems to forget that a significant proportion of the UK wished to remain in the EU.
Only the other day, Juncker (the European Commission president) gave a speech in French, on the grounds that English is losing its importance. This is despite the fact that even without the UK, the language of Europe would still be English, with German and French remaining second and third.
Admittedly the British government has hardly behaved ideally either - it is rather annoying for example to be told that the whole country must unify to help negotiate the best possible deal.
Long term expectations for the UK, as reflected in the future value of the economy that backs up the pound:
http://www.frbsf.org/economic-resear...her-the-pound/
Exiting the European Union is a lot like a family building a wall around their yard and not letting goods, services, or people cross. Suddenly, everyone in the family who had previously been lounging around on the dole will be busily employed in growing food, making clothes, digging wells for water, and telling each other stories around the campfire because there is no other entertainment.
What will the neighbors be doing in the meantime?
Cuba and North Korea were both cut off from global trade, as were the Soviet Union and China until a few decades ago.
Lol.
I remember an article I'd read before the Brexit where some German politician expressed his opinion (in answer to a question) that if Britain wants to roll alone like a rolling stone let them do it and i remember I laughed about it; overall there's been much spiteful expression of sentiment it seems
The EU is wrong in its protectionist stance, I hope they changed sometime soon.
A primary disadvantage of being outside the EU is that UK products will still essentially have to meet EU standards (not that they are necessarily superior, but they can at least be different), but the UK will have absolutely no say in what those standards should be.
Y'all shot yourselves in the foot. I don't think anyone besides actual career bureaucrats disagrees that the EU is sorely in need of reform and democratization. Instead of mobilizing with other countries uncomfortable with the current status quo on that, where you stood a good chance of using the high pressures to leave as a bargaining chip, you decided to just cut yourselves off from any decision-making power. Also wrecking investors' confidence and losing yourself quite a few jobs in the process.
I mean, we elected Trump, so clearly I'm used to peoples' decisions not making sense here too. It's still totally baffling though.
Last edited by Nanooka; 06-05-2017 at 10:29 PM.
I'm starting to think Brexit was a good idea.
*The EU has recently shown signs military ambitions.
*The economic fallout has been minimal so far, I was suspicious of Remainer claims when the announcement of leaving the EU had no significant economic effect. And now after officially leaving with a bad deal 3 months in, nothing drastic has happened.
*Claims from Remainers about xenophobia where also suspicious to me as nearly every country in the EU is significantly more racist, homophobic and antisemitic than the UK.
*The EU is a neo-liberal organisation which has exceptions that their members are on board with this ideology to some extent.
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I heard about something called "CANZUK", which is a proposal to create a free trade / freedom of movement block between Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the UK. It's an attempt at an EU substitute, more or less. Although the organizers deny it, many will no doubt see it as a nostalgist plot to restore the British Empire.
Step #1: Restore the British Empire.
Step #2: Surrender Singapore to the Japanese.
Restoring the empire is a pipe dream. Flexibility in the geopolitical stage isn't.
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