Jordan Peterson

[nokomis]

Those thinking this guy has an ounce of Se have really jumped the shark.

Seriously, open your damn eyes. The guy is pretty soft underneath his prickly shell.

LII. Maybe IEI but I doubt it.

[Kill4Me]

I know I've already posted this but for those who think he is LII what do you make of this video?

“Life without depth is by definition shallow and meaningless”.
I don’t know any Alpha who would honestly care about their life being shallow. Sometimes I feel like they almost prefer it that way because they want everything light and positive and carefree. They just want to relax with some good food and make jokes and pleasant conversation.

“Life is not that simple, life is complex and tragic and difficult” <— this is the antithesis of everything Alpha

Well, first, I would object to that characterization of Alpha values if we were to take the quadra values mythology seriously.

Second, even assuming you have properly characterized it, I would reject Quadra Values as a basis for typing anybody. If we start with quadra values as a basis for typing, then only Ne that cognizes light, positive and carefree possibilities and envisions light, positive and carefree innovations counts as Ne for the purposes of typing somebody ILE. It's like chopping off 3/4ths of Ne.

Things he is emphasizing in the video:
The quality of your life depends on how meaningful it is (Ni)
You need to have a wide range of emotions to deal with life, not just happiness (Fe, the Beta kind)

These are just conclusions he's drawn from studies of people and research in his particular field. So it really goes to Ti/Ne data collection and his value for competence (that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room).

I have an LII brother and there’s only so long I can talk to him about heavy serious topics like this before he will get uncomfortable and drained or try to make a joke out of it. And ESEs (the LII’s dual) would haaate hearing something like this. This is pure Ni. There are no open possibilities (Ne) in anything he is saying. Go to a group of Alphas and say something like this and I guarantee you wouldn’t be invited back lol.

his reasoning is way too mechanical for Ni-dom imo.

[Kill4Me]

The possibilities themselves don’t always have to be positive but there does need to be open possibilities. An ILE who doesn’t create open discussions with room for various possibilities or who doesn't want to explore different ideas at all isn’t an ILE.

Peterson is open to possibilities when it comes to making the same point through ten different arguments. When they say reason is a slave to the passions, it's also true that cognition in socionics is a slave to the passions.

It's key to distinguish between motivation and cognition. Let's take ILE 1s. Type 1 is an idealistic black and white thinker and believes they know the right way (a perfectionist); when unhealthy this idealism turns into a punitive drive to perfect the environment by removing what it perceives to be wrong. Say you have an ILE 1w2 that believes kids should be homeschooled due to his religious beliefs in combination with horrible life experiences in the public school department. His Ne/Ti will be adept at coming up with arguments that go against the conventional wisdom in favor of his belief that homeschooling is right. In debate, he will have an immediate sense for the possible imperfections in the arguments of an anti-home schooler. If he is an so/sp or sp/so, he may cognize possible avenues in the political realm to increase the opportunities for kids to be home-schooled. But nonetheless he stays closed off from ever changing his position that homeschooling is the right way.

It doesn't only have to be the motivation to be right. It could be the motivation to win. An ILE 3 attorney is motivated to win a case for his or her client. According to you, an ILE wouldn't make a good attorney because an attorney has to advocate for one side as if it's their own. Yet, ILEs make some of the best attorneys because Ne reflexively dismisses facts which don't cut in favor of their vision (which in the case of the ILE 3 is to win and be the best). If being the Best means not being open to other possibilities/arguments, then the ILE 3 will simply use their cognition in a more closed-off, black and white fashion.

All in all, the notion that Ne means not being able to choose one position over another is clearly not true. Even if they eliminate all possibilities save one, they are still embodying the possibility. Take an ILE 7w6 sp/so engineer who envisions a flying car and becomes obsessed with developing one. He will be open to numerous possibilities on how to design the flying car but he will hear no argument that it's not possible for cars to fly. Ivan Boesky is an example of an ILE-Ti 7w8. He singlemindedly pursued an accumulation of wealth through Machiavellian ploys. Ne/Ti merely gave him a cognition for the possible schemes that would allow him to subvert the rules of Wall Street but did not deter him from his drive to subvert the rules of Wall Street.

Ne cognition doesn't foreclose the ILE from being able to set themselves down on one end-point, it just opens up avenues for them to get to that end point that other extroverted types would not see. At the same point, it can lead them out into the middle of nowhere.

In this video Peterson makes closed off, single line of thinking statements. It’s like he’s saying this is how it is and this is the only way it is. He doesn’t leave room for discussion or any other options. It's very Ne ignoring. This kind of thinking (at worst) makes Ne valuers feel boxed in and depressed or (at best) they just find it boring. Ne discussions always have a certain level of ambiguity and openness for exploration.

That's just Ti-leading. Take note of what Gorky says about Ti as leading function in LII:

"very attached to his understanding of something, his thinking, his logic and concepts, confident and conservative in these. It is impossible to convince him otherwise, as he "lives" by this, but does not necessarily share his understanding with others. If his understanding does not converge with facts, then at times he will judge the facts to be of lower value. Any attempts at criticizing his understanding make him feel irritated. He knows how reason logically, but does not like to defend his vision of the situation: "Those who understood - understood, the rest don't have it in them". Thus he often surrounds himself with those who accept his logical judgments and who do not make attempts to dispute them. Changes his thinking with great difficultly and needs a lot of time to reflect on mistakes. Likes it when everything converges with the way he understands it. If this cannot be achieved - experiences irritation. Therefore, one can only persuade him using solid arguments. He is often skeptical of new information, if he is unsure in something: everything must be carefully weighed before saying "yes." His thinking is like a foundament - it is solid, something that can be "leaned on" in any situation, thus in this matter there cannot be any risks. It is difficult to require from them to immediately approve someone else's views. In general, he tries to understand everything first, and only then accept it for himself. If it is something he cannot understand, then mastering new information progresses slowly, since it is difficult to accept it for himself. Thus he can spend very long time learning something before utilizing it, even if the question is very simple."

[Myst]

I don’t know any Alpha who would honestly care about their life being shallow. Sometimes I feel like they almost prefer it that way because they want everything light and positive and carefree. They just want to relax with some good food and make jokes and pleasant conversation.

Way to do black and white stereotyping...

In this video Peterson makes closed off, single line of thinking statements.

I often see LIIs doing that. Wonder why.

[darya]

I'm not going off a stereotype just my own personal observations . I come from an Alpha/Delta family (with quite a few LIIs) and most of my friends throughout school were Alpha and this is genuinely what I noticed. Can't imagine an LII really being big on suffering through life and aiming your soul at something and profound meaning over happiness and all that. LIIs in the thread can let me know if I'm wrong though. @LIIs do you identify with how JP talks about the nature of life?

Not relating to Peterson's type, but dude, LII's are generally pretty serious and contemplating people. They are e5 majority of times, does that sound fluffy to you?

[Number 9 large]

He dislikes the fact that people don’t feel comfortable expressing their true feelings of suffering because of the demands for a happy atmosphere all the time.

This is obviously fi> fe valuing. Hes not a beta mate. Agree on the ni valuing tho. This makes him gamma nt

[silke]

all I see are a bunch of alphas and betas being triggered by peterson

oh, shucks, you must have missed how much us IEIs happen to relate to him

and how much his Ti is flowing through us

I know I've already posted this but for those who think he is LII what do you make of this video?



“Life without depth is by definition shallow and meaningless”.
I don’t know any Alpha who would honestly care about their life being shallow. Sometimes I feel like they almost prefer it that way because they want everything light and positive and carefree. They just want to relax with some good food and make jokes and pleasant conversation.

“Life is not that simple, life is complex and tragic and difficult” <— this is the antithesis of everything Alpha

Things he is emphasizing in the video:
The quality of your life depends on how meaningful it is (Ni)
You need to have a wide range of emotions to deal with life, not just happiness (Fe, the Beta kind)
He dislikes the fact that people don’t feel comfortable expressing their true feelings of suffering because of the demands for a happy atmosphere all the time. (Betas value real/ intense emotional expression over constant positivity which is Alpha)
All of this is clear valuing of Ni/Fe over Si/Fe

I have an LII brother and there’s only so long I can talk to him about heavy serious topics like this before he will get uncomfortable and drained or try to make a joke out of it. And ESEs (the LII’s dual) would haaate hearing something like this. This is pure Ni. There are no open possibilities (Ne) in anything he is saying. Go to a group of Alphas and say something like this and I guarantee you wouldn’t be invited back lol.

[Exodus]

I know I've already posted this but for those who think he is LII what do you make of this video?



“Life without depth is by definition shallow and meaningless”.
I don’t know any Alpha who would honestly care about their life being shallow. Sometimes I feel like they almost prefer it that way because they want everything light and positive and carefree. They just want to relax with some good food and make jokes and pleasant conversation.

“Life is not that simple, life is complex and tragic and difficult” <— this is the antithesis of everything Alpha

Things he is emphasizing in the video:
The quality of your life depends on how meaningful it is (Ni)
You need to have a wide range of emotions to deal with life, not just happiness (Fe, the Beta kind)
He dislikes the fact that people don’t feel comfortable expressing their true feelings of suffering because of the demands for a happy atmosphere all the time. (Betas value real/ intense emotional expression over constant positivity which is Alpha)
All of this is clear valuing of Ni/Fe over Si/Fe

I have an LII brother and there’s only so long I can talk to him about heavy serious topics like this before he will get uncomfortable and drained or try to make a joke out of it. And ESEs (the LII’s dual) would haaate hearing something like this. This is pure Ni. There are no open possibilities (Ne) in anything he is saying. Go to a group of Alphas and say something like this and I guarantee you wouldn’t be invited back lol.

Another good one