ESFP-SEE's Romantic/Erotic Behaviour

[Olimpia]

This thread is just about examples (and anecdotes) of the romantic/erotic behaviour of SEE!


I'll start with this:

Sensory-ethical extravert, not only does not hide his feelings, but on the contrary, they are proud. Relatively easy, if it is in his inner mood, expresses his admiration. And words and glances. He was always full of love for the physical and psychic identification(...). Even when feeling momentarily. Knows very well what he wants from the love object, is not inclined to adapt, but to dictate.

[JWC3]

I realized that I've broken up with more people than I've been in relationships with.

[Olimpia]

I realized that I've broken up with more people than I've been in relationships with.

How is that possible? Don't you have to be in a relationship with someone to break up with them...? o.O

[JWC3]

How is that possible? Don't you have to be in a relationship with someone to break up with them...? o.O

Typically my conversations with the grocery store check-out clerk end with her telling me to have a nice day and me responding "Look, we need to talk. . ."

However, to answer your question seriously. I don't tend to leave things open ended. So without being in a relationship I may decide to spend copious amounts of time with someone only to later realize that this is not something I want to continue doing and so I explicitly communicate such to the other party. I've also broken up with two people at once, one of which I wasn't dating. A friend and I were seeing two girls who were also close friends. After deciding that we didn't want to do that anymore, he told me to do the talking since he wouldn't be able to follow through otherwise. So technically I did end an actual relationship that I wasn't in, as well as one I was, simultaneously.

[lynn]

i'm interested in this ... usually i'm not that drawn to SEEs and most of the ones i know are female , but when i do, i feel like i have nothing to offer- i honestly do wonder if they are really interested in Ni-doms? (especially IEIs with zero Te, all i can offer is nodding and smiling at people, especially if i don't know them well.) somehow i can't wrap my head around this. one female SEE who approached me for friendship told me she wishes she had a boyfriend like me. and i thought, wtf, why? i always thought that SEEs tolerate IEIs because they are non-threatening and tag along, that's it. but every SEE i know has at least one IEI in their circle of friends, my SEE aunt's most important romantic relationships have been an IEI and now an ILI (but ILIs have Te!). and i've seen enough SEEs dating EIEs and ILIs to know, yes, they are drawn to Ni, but it's still strange for me. i met a really good looking, interesting SEE guy, and i was interested in him (but in a so/sx, let's see where it leads me way, i want to collect you as an addition to my social circle, and hopefully more? ... it's about social chemistry, i guess. he's sx/so, btw) and thought, okay, out of my league. so, what's their flirting/romantic behaviour, or how they act when they are interested in you (not necessarily romantic)? the SEE sx/so guy was always very enthusiastic, friendly towards me the few times we talked, him initiating the conversations. i thought that he's like that with everyone. i tried to be extra charming, lol. when i met him a few months later, i thought, it takes too much effort to keep this up, and maybe he doesn't remember me. so, i was more back to my default withdrawn mode i display with strangers. he modified his behaviour based on my reactions, and was very quiet towards me, until i showed simple signs of interest, and then he would slowly approach me again based on my reactions. i thought aggressor's talk to you/pursue you/chase you, if they are interested and if not, they just don't. but what's up with this looking at you as if they are a cat watching a mouse until it makes a move. and if you don't do anything, they look confused and unsure. usually it's me doing that, waiting for someone to make the first move and then adapting to them and deciding whether i should make the second or not. lol. waaay worse was an SLE around, who is the most attractive guy i've seen in my entire life, who just stared at me never saying anything. the first time i talked to him he got very nervous and tense... i'm not that attractive, either. wtf. ^^ what's up with aggressors not acting like aggressors. weird.

[Olimpia]

i'm interested in this ... usually i'm not that drawn to SEEs and most of the ones i know are female , but when i do, i feel like i have nothing to offer- i honestly do wonder if they are really interested in Ni-doms? (especially IEIs with zero Te, all i can offer is nodding and smiling at people, especially if i don't know them well.) somehow i can't wrap my head around this. one female SEE who approached me for friendship told me she wishes she had a boyfriend like me. and i thought, wtf, why? i always thought that SEEs tolerate IEIs because they are non-threatening and tag along, that's it. but every SEE i know has at least one IEI in their circle of friends, my SEE aunt's most important romantic relationships have been an IEI and now an ILI (but ILIs have Te!). and i've seen enough SEEs dating EIEs and ILIs to know, yes, they are drawn to Ni, but it's still strange for me.

Based on my experience and understanding of the type, SEE (or SLE) is genuinely drawn to this quiet energy doms possess. Maybe it is strange to describe it that way, but can be like a black hole to some degree, how their perceptions of the world get sucked in into the introspective mind of the person... is like the light and matter which is irrevocably attracted to the gravity of the black hole, and finds itself "falling" in/for it.

My SEE relatives, my SEE sister in particular, just enjoy being around me. They certainly like advice on matters, but it is not what they are primarily looking for. (They'd value more if they were a rather strong subtype.) For them to enjoy my company, I don't even have to say much. They'll usually do the talking, hug me, flatter me to warm me up to them and the sensorial world around me. I could see their complimenting being their natural way of charming and relieving their ILI dual.

Having said all that, I am sometimes surprised an SEE or SLE would be interested in such a person like I, one that can be rather timid when it comes romantic interaction. It simply must be the attraction of an Aggressor to a Victim type, I reckon.

the SEE sx/so guy was always very enthusiastic, friendly towards me the few times we talked, him initiating the conversations. i thought that he's like that with everyone. i tried to be extra charming, lol. when i met him a few months later, i thought, it takes too much effort to keep this up, and maybe he doesn't remember me. so, i was more back to my default withdrawn mode i display with strangers. he modified his behaviour based on my reactions, and was very quiet towards me, until i showed simple signs of interest, and then he would slowly approach me again based on my reactions. i thought aggressor's talk to you/pursue you/chase you, if they are interested and if not, they just don't. but what's up with this looking at you as if they are a cat watching a mouse until it makes a move. and if you don't do anything, they look confused and unsure. usually it's me doing that, waiting for someone to make the first move and then adapting to them and deciding whether i should make the second or not. lol.

Given the dual of SEE is acting like a Pseudo-Aggressor, I could see them waiting for such behaviour from a Victim type. Moments when the ego type acts unlike themselves – suddenly shows interest, just to draw back to a great extent again.

waaay worse was an SLE around, who is the most attractive guy i've seen in my entire life, who just stared at me never saying anything. the first time i talked to him he got very nervous and tense... i'm not that attractive, either. wtf. ^^ what's up with aggressors not acting like aggressors. weird.

This reminds me of my interaction with an LSI guy. For some reason, his appearance and bearing made me think he could be an SLE. Tall, imposing presence, etc. In classes, we would just sit across the room, and sometimes he'd give me a piercing look, for a second or so. We would just look at each other. He still has not approached me directly, haha. I've come to the realization he's an LSI, perhaps subtype. Even though he is an Aggressor, he's still not as upfront with that like an SLE would be. An LSI's dual is EIE, so they are expecting of a more colourful exuberant behaviour from a partner, one that may act sort of coquettish at times. When the LSI does not "get" this, they may not be entirely sure how to act. It's likely that guy you are talking of is also LSI-Se.

[lynn]

Based on my experience and understanding of the type, SEE (or SLE) is genuinely drawn to this quiet energy doms possess. Maybe it is strange to describe it that way, but can be like a black hole to some degree, how their perceptions of the world get sucked in into the introspective mind of the person... is like the light and matter which is irrevocably attracted to the gravity of the black hole, and finds itself "falling" in/for it.

ah, if it's like a black hole, then it makes (more) sense to me. some Ti-doms really have a way to calm me down emotionally, while some Se-doms make me feel more energetic just by their presence or intonation of the voice. so, if they in turn feel more relaxed in presence of a Ni type, then i understand.

My SEE relatives, my SEE sister in particular, just enjoy being around me. They certainly like advice on matters, but it is not what they are primarily looking for. (They'd value more if they were a rather strong subtype.) For them to enjoy my company, I don't even have to say much. They'll usually do the talking, hug me, flatter me to warm me up to them and the sensorial world around me. I could see their complimenting being their natural way of charming and relieving their ILI dual.

yes, my SEE aunt is the same. she just likes me being around. but i'm so indecisive and lazy, it's weird for me to be appreciated just for that ... xD

This reminds me of my interaction with an LSI guy. For some reason, his appearance and bearing made me think he could be an SLE. Tall, imposing presence, etc. In classes, we would just sit across the room, and sometimes he'd give me a piercing look, for a second or so. We would just look at each other. He still has not approached me directly, haha. I've come to the realization he's an LSI, perhaps subtype. Even though he is an Aggressor, he's still not as upfront with that like an SLE would be. An LSI's dual is EIE, so they are expecting of a more colourful exuberant behaviour from a partner, one that may act sort of coquettish at times. When the LSI does not "get" this, they may not be entirely sure how to act. It's likely that guy you are talking of is also LSI-Se.

nope, a definite SLE in my case. the piercing look i experienced with both LSIs and SLEs. don't discount SLE just because he hasn't approached you yet. (except if you type him LSI for other reasons). if it's not primarily sex they're after SLEs can act so incredibly stupid in presence of their object of interest, i'm not surprised by anything anymore. -.- i experienced this way too often. i once encouraged an SLE to pursue an IEI he told me he was interested in, after he spent the whole evening talking to me instead of her, and then he gave me a long explanation why this is not possible, because etc.. etc.. where she would break up with him in his scenario. (honestly, he just lacked the courage) he then hit on me instead, lol. i wasn't interested in him, of course. that was way before i knew about socionics, btw.

[Olimpia]

yes, my SEE aunt is the same. she just likes me being around. but i'm so indecisive and lazy, it's weird for me to be appreciated just for that ... xD

Aw! Haha. Yes, it can be sort of strange. I will just hang out with my SEE sister, sit and/or lie around, let her talk to me or give me a head massage, or whatever, haha. And then sometimes, she'll tell me how she finds me to be a really cool person. I'll say: Really? And she'll reply: Yes, of course!
It's funny, but endearing how just being yourself, living in your , can be a pleasure to someone.

nope, a definite SLE in my case. the piercing look i experienced with both LSIs and SLEs. don't discount SLE just because he hasn't approached you yet. (except if you type him LSI for other reasons). if it's not primarily sex they're after SLEs can act so incredibly stupid in presence of their object of interest, i'm not surprised by anything anymore. -.- i experienced this way too often. i once encouraged an SLE to pursue an IEI he told me he was interested in, after he spent the whole evening talking to me instead of her, and then he gave me a long explanation why this is not possible, because etc.. etc.. where she would break up with him in his scenario. (honestly, he just lacked the courage) he then hit on me instead, lol. i wasn't interested in him, of course. that was way before i knew about socionics, btw.

Oh, I type him LSI also for other reasons. For instance, he seems to be an introvert after all and pretty seeking. He's mostly in small groups of people who are laughing loudly at certain moments, and are generally creating an dominant atmosphere, while he is quietly chuckling in unison. Also, he would be really interested whenever I was suddenly laughing or showcasing . Being high(er) subtype, I am not giving out my as readily as other ego types might. So, he would not see me using it as often as others around him. For instance, his best female friend (maybe they are actually dating, I don't know for sure) is ESE, and her is very apparent, without saying. I believe that made him flock to her rather easily and quickly.

True, SLE guys can be oblivious to signs of people liking them or not, because of their PoLR. That's probably why they have to rely on interpreting their dual's , given it shows more visual, obvious signs of interest. This is one way to discern SLE from SEE's, who are more apt at interpreting other people's feelings and attractions.

Did he just hit on you to feel better about himself, or because he was genuinely into you?

[lynn]

True, SLE guys can be oblivious to signs of people liking them or not, because of their PoLR. That's probably why they have to rely on interpreting their dual's , given it shows more visual, obvious signs of interest. This is one way to discern SLE from SEE's, who are more apt at interpreting other people's feelings and attractions.

in the case of said SLE the problem is not only his Fi-polr but that he considered the cute, blonde, very girly IEI as a "queen" who cannot be approached, because she is so out of reach and angelic, while the hot, blonde ESE everyone thought he liked (because they were always playfully flirty, with her throwing herself at him) was the "slut". he told me that and i was like, wtf, it's this whole 19th century virgin/whore dichotomy thing again. i was going to respond to your post, before i saw that you're apparently added something. so it's not meant in response to your LSI guy and his ESE friend.

Did he just hit on you to feel better about himself, or because he was genuinely into you?

it was a half-hearted attempt to get a one night stand. lol.

[Soupman]

Based on my experience and understanding of the type, SEE (or SLE) is genuinely drawn to this quiet energy doms possess. Maybe it is strange to describe it that way, but can be like a black hole to some degree, how their perceptions of the world get sucked in into the introspective mind of the person... is like the light and matter which is irrevocably attracted to the gravity of the black hole, and finds itself "falling" in/for it.

That is the EP-IP temperament synergy, IPs have a quite, sedate energy to them that's flexible. The second part to this is their "introversion" behavioural introversion that has got a detached aura to it

My SEE relatives, my SEE sister in particular, just enjoy being around me. They certainly like advice on matters, but it is not what they are primarily looking for. (They'd value more if they were a rather strong subtype.) For them to enjoy my company, I don't even have to say much. They'll usually do the talking, hug me, flatter me to warm me up to them and the sensorial world around me. I could see their complimenting being their natural way of charming and relieving their ILI dual.

Having said all that, I am sometimes surprised an SEE or SLE would be interested in such a person like I, one that can be rather timid when it comes romantic interaction. It simply must be the attraction of an Aggressor to a Victim type, I reckon.


Given the dual of SEE is acting like a Pseudo-Aggressor, I could see them waiting for such behaviour from a Victim type. Moments when the ego type acts unlike themselves – suddenly shows interest, just to draw back to a great extent again.

The romance styles aren't deterministically connected to type however assertive types do look for the devotees as complements.

The pseudo-aggressor theory is actually broken and not really true but rather is just a contrived means to try to force ideas on to the theory. Observe enough people and even talk to some on this forum it'' become apparent that there is no determinstic connection between the romance styles and types. "Aggressors"(Assertors) can be intuitves too and ESE & SEE can also be infantiles.

[Olimpia]

The pseudo-aggressor theory is actually broken and not really true but rather is just a contrived means to try to force ideas on to the theory. Observe enough people and even talk to some on this forum it'' become apparent that there is no determinstic connection between the romance styles and styles. "Aggressors"(Assertors) can be intuitves too and ESE & SEE can also be infantiles.

The secondary Romance style of Childlike is Aggressor and vice versa, and the secondary Romance Style of Victim is Caretaker and vice versa; this is based on the shared dynamic or static dichotomy.

So yes,
IEE-Fi and ILE-Ti will have moments of being "Aggressor-like", but in a playful way. (Not so much EII and LII, because of their PoLR.)
SEE-Fi and SLE-Ti will have moments of being "Childlike" and playful, but in an aggressive way. (Not so much ESI and LSI, because of their PoLR.)
IEI-Fe and ILI-Te will have moments of being "Caretaker-like", but in a self-conscious or passive way. (Not so much LIE and EIE, because of their PoLR.)
SEI-Fe and SLI-Te will have moments of being "Victim-like", but in caring/nurturing or guiding way. (Not so much ESE and LSE, because of their PoLR.)

Considering all this, it is indeed difficult to explain how Gamma NTs are "Pseudo-Aggressor", or Delta NFs "Pseudo-Caretaker".
I have observed those behaviours in individuals of those types, so I find it to be true. I am wondering whether the key here is – valuing the most efficient or appropriate method.
In that light, Gamma NTs see too much Victim behaviour and Delta NFs see too much Childlike behaviour as being inefficient, so they unconsciously try to be like the other style sporadically.
But this is just a theory, I am really not sure why they have adopted a "Pseudo"-ness.

[dot]

The secondary Romance style of Childlike is Aggressor and vice versa, and the secondary Romance Style of Victim is Caretaker and vice versa; this is based on the shared dynamic or static dichotomy.

So yes,
IEE-Fi and ILE-Ti will have moments of being "Aggressor-like", but in a playful way. (Not so much EII and LII, because of their PoLR.)
SEE-Fi and SLE-Ti will have moments of being "Childlike" and playful, but in an aggressive way. (Not so much ESI and LSI, because of their PoLR.)
IEI-Fe and ILI-Te will have moments of being "Caretaker-like", but in a self-conscious or passive way. (Not so much LIE and EIE, because of their PoLR.)
SEI-Fe and SLI-Te will have moments of being "Victim-like", but in caring/nurturing or guiding way. (Not so much ESE and LSE, because of their PoLR.)

Considering all this, it is indeed difficult to explain how Gamma NTs are "Pseudo-Aggressor", or Delta NFs "Pseudo-Caretaker".
I have observed those behaviours in individuals of those types, so I find it to be true. I am wondering whether the key here is – valuing the most efficient or appropriate method.
In that light, Gamma NTs see too much Victim behaviour and Delta NFs see too much Childlike behaviour as being inefficient, so they unconsciously try to be like the other style sporadically.
But this is just a theory, I am really not sure why they have adopted a "Pseudo"-ness.

This might be a very simple thought, but I actually believe it might be related to being either a rational/realistic person (the Gamma NTs) or a feeler (like the Delta NFs). Like Se and Ti will appear much more aggressive than Se and Fi, because they do not focus on feelings or emotional bonds between people in the way they go about things. Being a "thinker" does make someone appear colder in my opinion (at least at first glance). I as a feeler and victim might appear much more like a softie as I act based on my feelings and thus might appear much more flighty than a Gamma victim who bases their decisions on facts or rational thoughts (?).

By the way.. even though I sometimes doubt the subtype theory, because I see quite a few qualities of the Fe-subtype within myself too, I thought that an INFp-Ni might actually look or behave more like a Pseudo-Aggressor, because they are closer to a Gamma Victim as Fe is surpressed more. Just as the Fe subtype might appear more motherly, since they are closer to Alpha Caregivers. Would SLEs-Se then look more like a Gamma Aggressor? Just some thoughts I had.

And funnily I also thought Jennifer might be an SEE! Some of her facial expressions looked like the ones from SEEs I know. I kind of noticed that women might be typed the introverted subytpe more often, because in society we have to behave more calmly. Not sure though.

[nondescript]

i'm interested in this ... usually i'm not that drawn to SEEs and most of the ones i know are female , but when i do, i feel like i have nothing to offer- i honestly do wonder if they are really interested in Ni-doms? (especially IEIs with zero Te, all i can offer is nodding and smiling at people, especially if i don't know them well.) somehow i can't wrap my head around this. one female SEE who approached me for friendship told me she wishes she had a boyfriend like me. and i thought, wtf, why? i always thought that SEEs tolerate IEIs because they are non-threatening and tag along, that's it. but every SEE i know has at least one IEI in their circle of friends, my SEE aunt's most important romantic relationships have been an IEI and now an ILI (but ILIs have Te!). and i've seen enough SEEs dating EIEs and ILIs to know, yes, they are drawn to Ni, but it's still strange for me. i met a really good looking, interesting SEE guy, and i was interested in him (but in a so/sx, let's see where it leads me way, i want to collect you as an addition to my social circle, and hopefully more? ... it's about social chemistry, i guess. he's sx/so, btw) and thought, okay, out of my league. so, what's their flirting/romantic behaviour, or how they act when they are interested in you (not necessarily romantic)? the SEE sx/so guy was always very enthusiastic, friendly towards me the few times we talked, him initiating the conversations. i thought that he's like that with everyone. i tried to be extra charming, lol. when i met him a few months later, i thought, it takes too much effort to keep this up, and maybe he doesn't remember me. so, i was more back to my default withdrawn mode i display with strangers. he modified his behaviour based on my reactions, and was very quiet towards me, until i showed simple signs of interest, and then he would slowly approach me again based on my reactions. i thought aggressor's talk to you/pursue you/chase you, if they are interested and if not, they just don't. but what's up with this looking at you as if they are a cat watching a mouse until it makes a move. and if you don't do anything, they look confused and unsure. usually it's me doing that, waiting for someone to make the first move and then adapting to them and deciding whether i should make the second or not. lol. waaay worse was an SLE around, who is the most attractive guy i've seen in my entire life, who just stared at me never saying anything. the first time i talked to him he got very nervous and tense... i'm not that attractive, either. wtf. ^^ what's up with aggressors not acting like aggressors. weird.

I bolded the important part. There are few things:

-> Stop relying on words? They are supposed to conjure this notion how something should be, not how it is / will be. The most correct word for Se ego types would be "Predator" not "Aggressor". But "Predator" has bad connotations, no? Anyhow, we do act like predators. We stalk our chosen game by forcing emotions, reactions etc out. ESPECIALLY us SEE! Don't forget that you are talking to a type who is a part of a "Causal-determinitive" cognition. Which means "this happens because of that so it means this is a causal effect, so I should make a move if I want to". Se are WICKEDLY good with body language-especially at noticing other person's body language. It doesn't matter if you do it willingly or not-we will latch onto it. So they see "welcome!" sign in body language and that is when we will make our move(if we want to, ofc!).

-> SEE have bad Ne and particularly bad Ti. What this means is that we don't pay half an attention to things like "what could be if it could be, so it logically is"(WTF ). We particularly don't employ lateral thinking, so there is that. What we see, we take for the true meaning of it, even if it could be due to other reasons. We also have a bad tendency to forget the logic and where we started(just look at the way I write lol!).

-> But then again, I could still be an ESI and ESI in particular are notorious for "Tom and Jerry" behaviour. So there is that...

[Adam Strange]

The above comments are very interesting. An ESI I know has parents I met briefly, who are SEE-father and IEI mother. The SEE writes music commercially from home and performs in local bands - he looks younger than he is, and the IEI-mother is a professional counsellor. They are, of course, semi-duals,
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...lity-Relations
and seem to get along great with only one exception, which the SEE told me about. He said that he is alone all day long writing music, and when the IEI comes home from work, he wants to talk, but she just puts her hand in front of her and says Stop, because she has been talking to people all day long and wants to rest.

This, of course, is not unique to SEE and IEI, but it does illustrate that these two types can get along very, very well.

She is introverted with strong Fe and Ni. He is just a party animal. I partied pretty hard when I was in my twenties, but I think this guy could beat me hands down if we ever went out together. I don't know if that's exactly what an IEI needs. I tend to think IEI's are better off with SLE's, if they can find one who is mature and financially stable. In his studio, the SEE was super-accomplished but seemed kind of lost. I don't know if an ILI would let things go there.

[Olimpia]

He is just a party animal. I partied pretty hard when I was in my twenties, but I think this guy could beat me hands down if we ever went out together. I don't know if that's exactly what an IEI needs. I tend to think IEI's are better off with SLE's, if they can find one who is mature and financially stable.

There are a lot of SLE guys who party hard, especially when immature & unhealthy... Is that what you mean? That most SLE guys are just party animals when immature, but SEE will always be party animals?

[Adam Strange]

There are a lot of SLE guys who party hard, especially when immature & unhealthy... Is that what you mean? That most SLE guys are just party animals when immature, but SEE will always be party animals?

No, that's not what I meant. But before I say what I meant, please understand that my sample size is microscopic, and so it is probably not generalizable. I have identified exactly one SEE male irl, and perhaps four or five SLE males, although I've known a couple of the SLE's for years. Here is what I think the SLE's seem to have in common.

They don't plan ahead. They have tremendous faith (or ignorance) in their abilities to get by, moment by moment. This means that they don't always end up with decent, stable jobs, because their planning horizon is so short.
They are funny and fun to be around, at least for me. Quite a few of my friends do not like them for various reasons, but I do.
They accept the world as it is, and don't complain (too much) when bad things happen to them. I respect that.
They are much smarter than they at first seem. They just don't make a point of showing it.
They seem to have a lack of curiosity about the world's possibilities, and just take things as they come. This gives them a "heavy" feeling, and could be interpreted as a kind of brutality, or a lack of understanding of what other people feel.
A couple of them want to manipulate other people as if they were chess pieces, but do so in a crude way. (One SLE I know has a Phd in Physics, an MBA in business, makes over $100k and still likes to force secretaries to work late to exert his power, and openly laughs about it. This means his tenure at his jobs has been fairly short, but his resume looks so good that it hasn't hurt him in getting new ones yet.)
As for heavy partying, the SLE's I know don't generally seem to go for extremes. If they party hard, it is not because they are driven to be the life of the party, but rather because they want to mentally escape their rotten jobs.
I think the ones that would or do have kids if they could get or stay married would make fairly good fathers.

The SEE, though, is a good, reasonably stable father, has a good, self-directed artistic job, is clearly intelligent and self-aware, is extremely good looking and looks like he could drink me under the table while collecting all the babes in the room while dancing without breaking a sweat. That's my impression, at least, and I've done my share of partying. He would do all that naturally, because he is just all over other people, but without the insensitive pushiness of the SLE's. On the other hand, he doesn't give me the impression of a guy who cares too much about hard thinking, but that opinion is coming from a Te-dom.

This particular SEE has a good job and is handsome, talented, and an aggressor, and the job part was enough (with the other stuff in common with an SLE) for the IEI to accept semi-dual relations, instead of seeking dual relations with an SLE who probably would not have had as good a job.

What I meant was, the drinking and partying part is not the most relevant part for an IEI. Instead, the SLE's have a high tolerance for emotional highs and lows, which IEI's seem to crave. I don't think the SEE wants or needs that, since his dual, the ILI, is about as steady as they get. So SLE's would be more what an IEI is looking for. Unfortunately, the SLE's tend not to have good jobs, and IEI's crave financial security.

[silke]

an example of SEE-Fi play-flirting

[Adam Strange]

an example of SEE-Fi play-flirting

Whoa, silke. She is a female version of the male SEE I described in the post above. I showed the video to an ILI I work with. He said, "So that's why I like Scarlett Johannson." I told him, "She's totally all over other people, you can see flashes of the sexual aggressor in some moments, but you can tell, there's not much going on up there. Maybe two or three circuits that are connected and working."*
He said, "I could totally get used to that." The "circuits" thing didn't matter in the least to him. He clearly knows what he likes.
So, are we unconsciously oriented toward our Duals? I think so. Would I have predicted this to be a good match before learning about Socionics? No.

So, silke. You nailed it. Got any more videos of ESI's (says the LIE-Te)?.

*I was just teasing the ILI, and testing him to find out if he cared how smart a woman looks. (Smarts are what he has in abundance - it is connecting to people that he's terrible at. I suggested he should make a presentation to a customer, and he looked like he was having a heart attack and started to tell me why he's not available that day. Best planner, though, by far.)
In truth, Scarlett Johannson is probably smarter than both of us together.

[Olimpia]

Go to 3:19 for a classic SEE flirting moment.
The comment about the menu... brilliant.

[Joy]

Go to 3:19 for a classic SEE flirting moment.
The comment about the menu... brilliant.

Is he meant to be a Se subtype?

[Olimpia]

Is he meant to be a Se subtype?

Hm, I believe he is actually rather Fi subtype.
Why?

[Joy]

Hm, I believe he is actually rather Fi subtype.
Why?

Just curious. I'm much more similar to him than to Scarlett Johansson. Probably most like Kirk though. I'm not coy or seductive or sultry at all. I'm abrupt and physical. I bluntly express interest and confidently make a move. "I like you. We should make out."

I actually prefer non-verbal consent, but that usually starts with stuff like hand holding and cuddling. But not always. lol

[Beautiful sky]

Go to 3:19 for a classic SEE flirting moment.
The comment about the menu... brilliant.

He is LSE

[Sol]

Scarlett Johansson - ISFP, ESFJ
Robbie Williams - ENFJ

[Olimpia]

Scarlett Johansson - ISFP, ESFJ
Robbie Williams - ENFJ

Robbie is SEE-Fi, 3w4, Sx/Sp.
Scarlett is likely Gamma SF, though I have not looked into her personality that much yet.

[Olimpia]

I find it intriguing how both Elvis Presley (fellow SEE-Fi, E-3 Sx/Sp) and Robbie Williams will kiss their fans. Seems like this is an SEE-Fi musician thing, perhaps.

[Satan]

looking at that interview of robbie williams i kept thinking about how rigid he seemed.

[Olimpia]

looking at that interview of robbie williams i kept thinking about how rigid he seemed.

Off this thread, I asked you what you meant by "rigid", you said "like he's trying too hard".

This is often said to be characteristic of E-3 people wanting to fit that certain image.

[Bowie]

I know an ESI-SE very hot Sx/Soc girl in my university that flirts with me very often (yeah i´m a lucky bastard), she is very aggresive in her attempts, and sometimes likes to make me jealous just for fun, i really can´t remember the number of guys that tried in vain to approach her; must be for the passive_aggresive way to be, and the obsesion with her career that they gave up, but when we are together she behaves different, i can see the real person beyond her mask. anyway just my experience, the Fi in Gammas is a bit confusing. especially in the romantic way.

[Olimpia]

[Sol]

[Emmym]

Ahaha SEEs are so hot, but like, if someone showed such favorable Se to me like that, I'd be locking it down and planning our future life together. I could never handle that much Se being for everyone and just for fun.

[HotSauce]

I have been reading a ton of articles on here lately.

I'm realizing I have been an aggressor woman since birth.

When I was five, I announced to the five year old hazel eyed boy next door that he was my boyfriend, then I climbed a fence to kiss him. He ran away, but I told him he was still my boyfriend. He didn't have a choice.

[End]

I have been reading a ton of articles on here lately.

I'm realizing I have been an aggressor woman since birth.

When I was five, I announced to the five year old hazel eyed boy next door that he was my boyfriend, then I climbed a fence to kiss him. He ran away, but I told him he was still my boyfriend. He didn't have a choice.

Damn, what a lucky bastard. Well, so long as you weren't "too" aggressive that is. The general culture doesn't want to admit it but it is possible for the girl to hit the gas too hard if ya catch my meaning. Victim types don't mind at all (and will likely find it very hot) and aggressors will call you out on it before you hit that point but pushing an infantile or caregiver too hard can traumatize em'. They're just not equipped to handle it well sadly. The aggressor approach scares infantiles yet turns on a victim like nothing else. I guess it's quadra values in the end. The victim/aggressor quadras are basically at war with the infantile/caregiver quadras. Thus, they are romantically incompatible on a subconscious level.

[Sol]

pushing an infantile or caregiver too hard can traumatize em

They don't find specific behavior of Se types sexually attractive. At best it is indifferent. At worst Se type wich crosses limits of norms or patience may become traumatized himself. But Se types may behave like Si types in some degree, what Ne types will like.

They're just not equipped to handle it well sadly.

yep. only Ni/Se types value s&m things

[End]

They don't find specific behavior of Se types sexually attractive. At best it is indifferent. At worst Se type wich crosses limits of norms or patience may become traumatized himself. But Se types may behave like Si types in some degree, what Ne types will like.

Well it is basically the same function, but from another angle as it were. Both aggressors and caregivers are the "tops" as it were, but it manifests in very different ways. Same goes for the infantile/victim types playing bottom. As always, the extrovert is much more overt about it while the introvert prefers subtlety. The interplay of that dynamic is what drives those pairs towards each other.

yep. only Ni/Se types value s&m things

Well the name of the two groups kinda calls into mind an S&M image. The "Sadist" is an aggressive conquer issuing commands, the Victim a "submissive/masochistic" personality who gets a sexual thrill when their partner commands something of them in an imperious way (they're quick to forgive bitchiness as well). It's all one big power game. Both know their positions yet know how to best play it to their advantage. In the end, it's hard to say who holds more power, the aggressor or the victim. Good thing for both of them that they wouldn't have it any other way .

[Olimpia]

Well it is basically the same function, but from another angle as it were. Both aggressors and caregivers are the "tops" as it were, but it manifests in very different ways. Same goes for the infantile/victim types playing bottom. As always, the extrovert is much more overt about it while the introvert prefers subtlety. The interplay of that dynamic is what drives those pairs towards each other.

I have to (partly) disagree there. Caregiver/Victim are on an axis, and Aggressor/Infantile are on one. Just going by this, Caregivers are not automatically more similar to Aggressors, nor Infantiles to Victims.

What truly determines "Top"/"Bottom" largely depends on how is used by the people involved.

 

1D types, meaning IxI and xII, are usually Bottoms; except for the ILI (esp. if Te subtype) who is more of a "Switch" due to their Pseudo-Aggressor nature.
Then, Ignoring has many Bottom tendencies as well, especially SEI. With Ignoring you can see how a Caregiver can be closer to Victim, and with that closer to stereotypical Bottom behavior.

Obviously the most Aggressor ( ego) are the most "Top" technically, though the Gamma SFs less so; especially ESI is not as Aggressor and can even have Pseudo-Victim (hello HA) tendencies, while their Dual has got Pseudo-Aggressor ones. In that context, Gammas are generally closest to being "Switch".

Caregivers who do have the ability to act the most "Top"-like without being Aggressor are those with Demonstrative (4D) , which are LSE and ESE, the latter being slightly less Aggressor due to their strong Caregiver attitude. LSI is sort of moving from full-on Aggressor to a less pro-active attitude from time to time (again HA influence). EIE is similar in that regard; they oscillate between being full-on Victim and slightly less so due to their HA. Role types (IxE) also can have an "on/off" quality, and hence are more Switch-like too.


To summarize,

The most "Bottom": IEI > EII > LII > SEI > EIE > SLI
The most "Switch": > ILI > IEE > ILE > ESI > LIE > SEE
The most "Top": SLE > LSE > LSI > ESE >

Following that, SLI is the most Switch-like from the Bottoms, ILI is the most Bottom-like from the Switches, SEE is the most Top-like from the Switches, ESE is the most Bottom-like from the Tops (and hence can seem Switch-like). This ranking is based on the types with no (0) subtype. Subtypes can skew the ranking, sometimes even dramatically (if it is a strong subtype). Add to that different sexual expression due to instinctual stacking and gender skewing the ranking.

[HotSauce]

Damn, what a lucky bastard. Well, so long as you weren't "too" aggressive that is. The general culture doesn't want to admit it but it is possible for the girl to hit the gas too hard if ya catch my meaning. Victim types don't mind at all (and will likely find it very hot) and aggressors will call you out on it before you hit that point but pushing an infantile or caregiver too hard can traumatize em'. They're just not equipped to handle it well sadly. The aggressor approach scares infantiles yet turns on a victim like nothing else. I guess it's quadra values in the end. The victim/aggressor quadras are basically at war with the infantile/caregiver quadras. Thus, they are romantically incompatible on a subconscious level.

Tell me about it. Over the years I've learned to tone down the blatant aggressive style behavior. I actually come across as sweet, I think, but when it comes to my needs and what I want, I can be pretty direct. A lot of guys are initially turned on by it, but that only lasts so long. My ILI BF eats it up like candy, and we do have a touch of BSDM dynamic going on. He is the dominant one about half of the time, but it's more like "How would you like me to dominate you tonight?" not "SLAVE! I command you to the bed"

I pretty much think I traumatized my caregiver ESFj ex, yeah.

[End]

Tell me about it. Over the years I've learned to tone down the blatant aggressive style behavior. I actually come across as sweet, I think, but when it comes to my needs and what I want, I can be pretty direct. A lot of guys are initially turned on by it, but that only lasts so long. My ILI BF eats it up like candy, and we do have a touch of BSDM dynamic going on. He is the dominant one about half of the time, but it's more like "How would you like me to dominate you tonight?" not "SLAVE! I command you to the bed"

I pretty much think I traumatized my caregiver ESFj ex, yeah.

Sounds about right given the theories. ILI is a Psuedo-Aggressor after all. We CAN be dominant, but we wouldn't like to be in that position 24/7 and even then, it's more out of a desire to make our partner happy over our own desire (hence his inquisitive tone regarding it). Yeah, girls tend to like being dominated and we get that. Even so, a girl who knows what she wants and isn't shy about asking for it in a very sultry and seductive tone? Damn! Now THAT'S a woman!

[dot]

Damn, what a lucky bastard. Well, so long as you weren't "too" aggressive that is. The general culture doesn't want to admit it but it is possible for the girl to hit the gas too hard if ya catch my meaning. Victim types don't mind at all (and will likely find it very hot) and aggressors will call you out on it before you hit that point but pushing an infantile or caregiver too hard can traumatize em'. They're just not equipped to handle it well sadly. The aggressor approach scares infantiles yet turns on a victim like nothing else. I guess it's quadra values in the end. The victim/aggressor quadras are basically at war with the infantile/caregiver quadras. Thus, they are romantically incompatible on a subconscious level.

I do find aggressive behaviour hot, at the same time it intimidates me.. but I subconsciously do not want it to end (I also need time to think, because too much Se at once can be so overwhelming and I clam up).