Tired of Kill4Me's unsolicited retypings of me behind my back - so discuss here.

[Amber]

[Amber]

Anyway how come ppl aren't bored of the thread.

Myst can really sit on LSI-Se if she still finds it fun and thought-provoking to discuss her type.

[Aylen]

hahahaha what a travesty of a thread. look at all these silly "smart" homos who think they know sth, going on & on about "balanced between se & ti" as if anyone here even knows what those are, let alone knowing what it means to being balanced between them.

Apparently you think you know so instead of criticizing why not enlighten us?

I thought you didn't do socionics anymore...

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_Sensing

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...roverted_Logic

Edit: I may not be a "logical" type but I can read definitions and weigh the evidence in favor of one type over another. I can also recognize when a person presents themselves in a balanced way. Not meaning balanced as in healthy, blah, blah, blah... I just mean I can see someone who does not heavily lean to one side or another. That is how I experience myself to be as well. I can balance Ni and Fe and usually know when it is appropriate to use either. I am not much into subtypes to begin with but I can see the need for them to distinguish certain behaviors but the base function should become obvious after observing someone over time. Some people may be easier to read than others.

as a base (1st) function (LII and LSI)

The individual views reality through the lens of logic, immediately recognizing the correctness and appropriateness of things and their proper place in reality and in his system of views and behavior. He freely makes logical assertions, often exaggerated, about new information and experience. He holds highest those rules to which exceptions do not exist, and is a habitual critic of people or things that don't follow a set of rules, whether they are those accepted by the community, or his own, or even the other person's. Although he is able to adopt others' rules, his own are always the last word, and these are subject to continual refinement.

Often seen as "demanding", due to high standards.

as a creative (2nd) function (LSI and ESI)

The individual takes direct action to accomplish his goals and desires in the face of external obstacles, and also the interests of his close friends, family, or associates. This may involve prodding others to take necessary action, deliberately applying pressure in specific situations, or abruptly taking on an organizational role. The individual does not generally seek out confrontation, but he is also not afraid of it.

He takes his responsibilities seriously and tends to perform them diligently and with care. He expects the same of others.

[Myst]

Negativism is very easy to notice in ppl like Kill4Me and Absurd. No 1 emphasizes them all the time when he wants to prove (or disprove) a typing. Look back in your thread: "this is not what Se base does, this is what ILE does." or "these are not so/sp irises, these are sx/so irises". And he keeps contrasting them visually with pics etc. No 2 uses an Aristocratic lens to flame wars between quadras, types of Logic or whatever else.

Yeah I see. I don't do contrasting in this way, good point. I do use a logical elimination process and have other things going on that may look Negativist (enneagram reactive triad for example).

absolutely not LSI-Ti. Too much Fe and not enough rigor. Kinda does Clint Eastwood go .

I know I'm not LSI-Ti. Though IRL you wouldn't say too much Fe, tho I still fit Se sub of LSI more with Fe use IRL.

As for rigor, I have intellectual rigor and a few other things in my life that are very rigidly organized.

hahahaha what a travesty of a thread. look at all these silly "smart" homos who think they know sth, going on & on about "balanced between se & ti" as if anyone here even knows what those are, let alone knowing what it means to being balanced between them.

Do you know? Tell us?

Anyway how come ppl aren't bored of the thread.

Myst can really sit on LSI-Se if she still finds it fun and thought-provoking to discuss her type.

Why people are not bored, well I guess I'm not easy to type, I do look like I'm in between the two beta ST types.

Lol, yes it's fine to discuss it. I'm not going to retype though, unless someone provides the ultimate argument for SLE-Ti that's such a great strong argument that even I have nothing against it. Lol. Challenge on!
(Good luck though...)

[wacey]

I've got Dave Mathews as perhaps SLE - Ti subtype?

Thoughts?

[kopyk]

Aylen, Myst.... get the hint already. see the writing on the wall. socionics is bullshit.

[Myst]

Edit: I may not be a "logical" type but I can read definitions and weigh the evidence in favor of one type over another. I can also recognize when a person presents themselves in a balanced way. Not meaning balanced as in healthy, blah, blah, blah... I just mean I can see someone who does not heavily lean to one side or another. That is how I experience myself to be as well. I can balance Ni and Fe and usually know when it is appropriate to use either. I am not much into subtypes to begin with but I can see the need for them to distinguish certain behaviors but the base function should become obvious after observing someone over time. Some people may be easier to read than others.

Descriptions that you quoted can help but I do really go by the core definitions and principles in Model A. The concrete behavioural descriptions are somewhat correlated with that but not totally (because of no known direct causal connection and also other factors affecting things) and that gets confusing to some people, I guess you are able to handle it

Another comment, you are similarly balanced as me, yep be my dual

I've got Dave Mathews as perhaps SLE - Ti subtype?

Thoughts

No idea, I don't VI much, let alone by video

Why you asking in this thread - want to make it the default go-to resource for the issue of SLE vs LSI lol? (I don't mind your post btw)

Aylen, Myst.... get the hint already. see the writing on the wall. socionics is bullshit.

It's a model. Applying it where it doesn't apply is a bad bullshit idea indeed. Along with Gulenko's and Reinin's bullshit Etc

[wacey]

No idea, I don't VI much, let alone by video

Why you asking in this thread - want to make it the default go-to resource for the issue of SLE vs LSI lol? (I don't mind your post btw)

You challenged people to give come up with arguments that you are SLE -Ti. I didn't have a very good argument, and all I could think of was showing you what I think a SLE-Ti person looks like, acts like, ect instead of explaining. I don't know what sociotype you are for sure, LSI fits pretty much fine with me. Only you can be the final arbiter. Dave's video was just food for thought. o/ \o

[Myst]

You challenged people to give come up with arguments that you are SLE -Ti. I didn't have a very good argument, and all I could think of was showing you what I think a SLE-Ti person looks like, acts like, ect instead of explaining. I don't know what sociotype you are for sure, LSI fits pretty much fine with me. Only you can be the final arbiter. Dave's video was just food for thought. o/ \o

OK, heh I see now, I didn't realize that from you simply asking "thoughts?" in a general way. Cool video & thanks but yeah not a very good argument lol.

[Myst]

Unhealthy EII-Ne's are the worst, I know a couple, we can talk/interact only for a while before a bad type of irritation comes up either from my side or from theirs. From Ne subtypes it's just too much randomness of the wrong kind via their strong Creative contact function also with weird attempts at logic, too much complaining and especially from the Fi subtypes, overly moralistic feelings. The healthy EII's (of either subtype) aren't too bad, their tolerance and attempts at being nice (if I'm liked by them) is cool. Just not going to ever get close for sure. The overly moralistic attitude sometimes displayed still confuses or annoys me even if coming from healthy EIIs. And often I try to encourage/push them with Se because they seem so low in Se but it never works but it doesn't cause a conflict, so just mentioning this on the side.

I listed IEE's as second worst only because they cause fewer crap overall. By default they either tend to be completely indifferent from a distance or they can try to be nice just fine. If in interaction with unhealthier ones, can get irritated by each other, me by too much randomness, by their bitching and they may start to criticize some bs about me that I don't even understand what their problem is about. If it's criticism over social norms, which I do get from IEEs more than EIIs, I sometimes try to pay attention to what they say about it but it's irritating and I fail eventually because it's just their subjective ideas on what's good. At other times I don't accept and criticize their moralistic idea in return. Also when their way of thinking in general gets exposed it often makes no sense and I really quickly tune out of it. I can't even be bothered to argue for long with IEE's which is funny because I'm otherwise very persistent in arguments, not an understatement there at all, heheh. @Reficulris, @mikemex, you both should be really happy I wasn't ever into arguing for long with you

That's because you're SLE and not LSI.

What is "that". That I find conflictor isn't actually the type that causes the most conflict interacting with? That's actually what the theory predicts. If you meant something else, do let me know.

And to respond you, the difference between Ne phobic and Ne annoyed is the strength of each function.

Think about the function structure:

Between super egos (Ne annoyed): Ne as 1st vs Ne as 3rd & Se as 1st vs Se as 3rd. (battle between equals).
Between conflictors (Ne phobic): Ne as 1st vs Ne as 4th & Ti as 1st vs Ti as 4th. (assymetrical battle)

Since opposites are Ne<->Se, Ni<->Si, Fi<->Ti, Fe<->Te, it should be clear that the LSI responds to IEE's 1st degree Ne (4D) with 2nd degree Se (3D) and is in an intrinsic disadvantage against it. Not so the SLE, which responds with 1st order Se (4D) to balance.

In plain English, an SLE understands Ne a little but misses by a long shot what the IEE truly means. Since he's confident in the area of perception, he has little trouble dismissing it off. An LSI is less confident than an IEE in the perception area, thus when an IEE expresses his own perception, it is always going to seem more complete than his own Se version.

The more apart are two functions, the better they complement each other. That's the reason why duals work well together. And for the same reason, conflictors understand each other much better than what theory predicts, it's just that, even if they follow the same paths, they do in the opposite directions and thus tire each other rather quickly.

As I said before, I do agree that we seem to be following in opposite directions. Precisely why I don't bother arguing for long

And on re-reading this, it really makes sense that IEE is my conflictor. Your analysis is really pretty good. I wanted to emphasize this

Also, I did ask you about, where did you get the idea that I see your Ne as an SLE would. If you do have an answer you can put into words, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

[Deer Woman]

@Myst
It's pretty clear you see LSI over SLE at this point. Maybe it would be cool to see a post explaining how the "SLE" traits you initially saw are actually "LSI" instead? How mirrors can be confused with each other (in your case specifically).

[Myst]

@Myst
It's pretty clear you see LSI over SLE at this point. Maybe it would be cool to see a post explaining how the "SLE" traits you initially saw are actually "LSI" instead? How mirrors can be confused with each other (in your case specifically).

That's a cool idea, I'll put my thoughts together on that later, btw what made you consider LSI for me?

[Deer Woman]

That's a cool idea, I'll put my thoughts together on that later, btw what made you consider LSI for me?

I'm seeing the Ne PoLR through our correspondence more and more. I also see you adhering to "Fi norms" more than I initially thought, just like a proper Role function. Still not set either way. Beta ST for sure, but if you decide you're SLE tomorrow? I'd say okay and ask why. If you switch back to LSI the day after? I'd say okay and ask why again.
Neither type would surprise me.

[Myst]

I'm seeing the Ne PoLR through our correspondence more and more. I also see you adhering to "Fi norms" more than I initially thought, just like a proper Role function. Still not set either way. Beta ST for sure, but if you decide you're SLE tomorrow? I'd say okay and ask why. If you switch back to LSI the day after? I'd say okay and ask why again.
Neither type would surprise me.

Ah, one example of what you saw as Ne PoLR? And lol

[Deer Woman]

Ah, one example of what you saw as Ne PoLR? And lol

I've noticed in general you need literal, specific examples. We communicate really well in general, but there's something off...I feel like it's a battle of vague/metaphorical vs factual/specific.
EIEs would be a little more concrete, because Rational + Je base (Te role). Whereas for me, Je takes a backseat, so I tend to describe things in impressionistic way instead.
Eventually I have to challenge myself to speak more carefully, concretely, which I think EIE is better at without trying.

This post is a great example in of itself. I'm not citing an specific incident that made me feel this way. Just my overall "feeling" which tends to not be useful to you.

[Words]

I've noticed in general you need literal, specific examples. We communicate really well in general, but there's something off...I feel like it's a battle of vague/metaphorical vs factual/specific.
EIEs would be a little more concrete, because Rational + Je base (Te role). Whereas for me, Je takes a backseat, so I tend to describe things in impressionistic way instead.
Eventually I have to challenge myself to speak more carefully, concretely, which I think EIE is better at without trying.

This post is a great example in of itself. I'm not citing an specific incident that made me feel this way. Just my overall "feeling" which tends to not be useful to you.

There is a sort of prodding for answers as well without seeming to know when it's becoming a chore for the other person.

But I have been reluctant to put a socionic explanation on it, instead it could just be an internet communication explanation, perhaps language etc.

[Myst]

I've noticed in general you need literal, specific examples. We communicate really well in general, but there's something off...I feel like it's a battle of vague/metaphorical vs factual/specific.
EIEs would be a little more concrete, because Rational + Je base (Te role). Whereas for me, Je takes a backseat, so I tend to describe things in impressionistic way instead.
Eventually I have to challenge myself to speak more carefully, concretely, which I think EIE is better at without trying.

This post is a great example in of itself. I'm not citing an specific incident that made me feel this way. Just my overall "feeling" which tends to not be useful to you.

I actually find I understand you pretty easily without much thinking. Wanting examples...? ok, I see.

I do notice EIE is a bit more concrete, yes.

There is a sort of prodding for answers as well without seeming to know when it's becoming a chore for the other person.

But I have been reluctant to put a socionic explanation on it, instead it could just be an internet communication explanation, perhaps language etc.

You seem to be doing that prodding yourself too so that's funny you'd mention it. Also, we hardly talked so I assume you just observed me with others, not personal experience.

Btw it's because I myself am pretty patient when someone asks for explanations or whatever. I don't really feel like it's a chore (or even if it feels like it a bit, I don't mind). But please read on for more explanation because there's more factors, this is one of them for sure though.

So yes, IRL I would see from body language or facial expression if someone has some kind of problem. Online I see it only from clearly worded messages. So yep, you are right, not entirely type related.

Though in a slight way it is related because while IRL I will easily notice the continuous metacommunication along with someone speaking, with written communication I just automatically tend to forget about that aspect, I only see words, logical content, nothing else. I find if I consciously remind myself I can pay attention to a bit more than that in written communication but it takes conscious effort. I assume some Ethical or Intuitive type would not have to remind themselves.

What also adds to it is that English is my second language and I learned it very late, I was 19 when I started with it and I was using logic to grasp the language, nothing else. I was learning it at home on my own, first in written form. So as a result when I switch to English from my native language, I somehow enter an even more logical mode than what my default is. Just extremely detached logical. This applies to written communication only, when I speak in English IRL, I'm not as fully detached-analytical, just my normal version of it . So this "written English" mode also adds to having to remind myself, even more than just simply written communication in my native language. I did notice though that sometimes the talking partner can also help me remind / switch from this mode to something more humane even online and even in English.

[Words]

I actually find I understand you pretty easily without much thinking. Wanting examples...? ok.

I do notice EIE is a bit more concrete, yes.




You seem to be doing that prodding yourself too so that's funny you'd mention it. Also, we hardly talked so I assume you just observed me with others, not personal experience.

Btw it's because I'm pretty patient when someone asks for explanations or whatever. I don't really feel like it's a chore. But please read on for more explanation because there's more factors, this is one of them for sure though.

So yes, IRL I would see from body language or facial expression if someone has some kind of problem. Online I see it only from clearly worded messages. So yep, you are right, not entirely type related.

Though in a slight way it is related because while IRL I will easily notice the continuous metacommunication along with someone speaking but with written communication I just automatically tend to forget about that aspect, I only see words, logical content, nothing else. I find if I consciously remind myself I can pay attention to a bit more than that in written communication but it takes conscious effort. I assume some Ethical or Intuitive type would not have to remind themselves.

What also adds to it is that English is my second language and I learned it very late, I was 19 when I started with it and I was using logic to grasp the language, nothing else. I was learning it at home on my own, first in written form. So as a result when I switch to English from my native language, I somehow enter an even more logical mode than what my default is. Just extremely detached logical. This applies to written communication only, when I speak in English IRL, I'm not as fully detached-analytical. So this mode also adds to having to remind myself. I did notice though that my talking partner can also help me remind / switch from this mode to something more humane even online and even in English.

I stopped talking to you mainly because of this ^

I got bored of it and found you were placing expectations on me that I didn't have to meet, and I didn't want to fight with you, sorry if that's bad.

Yeah I mentioned language, I thought it might be possibly why.

As for moving into a logical mode when you use English, it's pretty much accepted fact that people make more considered points than what they do using their native language, takes away a certain impulsiveness due to the additional requirements of brain functioning.

[Myst]

I stopped talking to you mainly because of this ^

Nope, you stopped talking to me because you thought I was questioning your type. Actually, what happened was that I made an absolutely innocent post on the forum in reply to yours where I simply corrected you on some statement and you took that badly for some reason and that's when you put me on ignore. I was not asking you a question, was not prodding you, I was simply correcting your statement in terms of good methods of typing *in general*. I don't know why you took it personally.

I got bored of it and found you were placing expectations on me that I didn't have to meet, and I didn't want to fight with you, sorry if that's bad.

I was not placing any expectations on you, I don't get why you thought that. The only one thing I ever said was that instead of ranting about me, just tell me right away that you don't want to discuss your typing. We talked only once in chatbox and never on forum before that post as mentioned above.

Idk why such a misinterpretation of things by you.

Yeah I mentioned language, I thought it might be possibly why.

Yep I saw you mention it. Good thinking

As for moving into a logical mode when you use English, it's pretty much accepted fact that people make more considered points than what they do using their native language, takes away a certain impulsiveness due to the additional requirements of brain functioning.

That's only in written form for me, when I speak out loud in English I'm largely the same as in my native language. Just the same amount of impulsiveness etc. But I'm very fluent in English so that helps. As for written form, I'm just more detached, doesn't feel tiring

[Words]

Nope, you stopped talking to me because you thought I was questioning your type. Actually, what happened was that I made an absolutely innocent post on the forum in reply to yours where I simply corrected you on some statement and you took that badly for some reason and that's when you put me on ignore. I was not asking you a question, was not prodding you, I was simply correcting your statement in terms of good methods of typing. I don't know why you took it personally.

Dude, please don't be another one of those people who tell my why I do things as if they know better than I know myself why I do things.

What's up with that? And can you see how that would be annoying for someone, and well, unnecessary?

I was not placing any expectations on you, I don't get why you thought that. The only one thing I ever said was that instead of ranting about me, just tell me right away that you don't want to discuss your typing. We talked only once in chatbox and never on forum before that post as mentioned above.

Idk why such a misinterpretation of things by you.

How can it be a misenterpretation, this is how it feels, you can't tell me my feelings are wrong as well

That's only in written form for me, when I speak out loud in English I'm largely the same as in my native language. Just the same amount of impulsiveness etc. But I'm very fluent in English so that helps. As for written form, I'm just more detached, doesn't feel tiring

It's about the idea that decision involves the interplay of competing psychological mechanisms: one that’s instinctive and emotional, and another that’s deliberative and calculating. As far as I know it would be the same written and verbal using a foreign language, at least according to the research i've read.


**** I am not sure how any of this helps you decide between SLE and LSI, if you are wanting to use this, then does it mean you are more IJ since it would suggest a certain lack of P smoothness in interaction? Dunno - maybe, and maybe is not what you're looking for.

I think if it's between ISTj and ESTp that you are probably ESTp because I see IJ as typically more deliberate and less reactive than the ESTp, you have quicker fluctuations and wider fluctuations of behaviour reflecting your energy which seems to be associated with EP over IJ.

[Myst]

Dude, please don't be another one of those people who tell my why I do things as if they know better than I know myself why I do things.

What's up with that? And can you see how that would be annoying for someone, and well, unnecessary?

What? I was not stating anything about any "deep" "why's", that is, why you were doing whatever you did. I also don't like to be told those "deep" guesses about why I do things so I'm with you on this one.

I only described what happened and described my intentions. You explicitly took an issue with me bringing up your type so that's why I mentioned that. If you had not said so explicitly, I would not have said it here either.

You putting me on ignore, I did make the assumption that you took my post personally. But that's what anyone would think. Idk why you did it if it wasn't that, so feel free to tell me the reasons for it if you want. I'm not really worried about it tho'.

How can it be a misenterpretation, this is how it feels, you can't tell me my feelings are wrong as well

I didn't mean to invalidate any feelings of yours but that post truly was not directed at you in any personal way so your reaction did leave me quite baffled. I have no problem with you personally, btw.

It's about the idea that decision involves the interplay of competing psychological mechanisms: one that’s instinctive and emotional, and another that’s deliberative and calculating. As far as I know it would be the same written and verbal using a foreign language, at least according to the research i've read.

Ah, no, when I do written English, I don't feel more deliberate than my default, just more detached. I don't know how extensive the research was on this but I'm very sure spoken English is different for me, more instinctive than written English, which is more detached.

**** I am not sure how any of this helps you decide between SLE and LSI, if you are wanting to use this, then does it mean you are more IJ since it would suggest a certain lack of P smoothness in interaction? Dunno - maybe, and maybe is not what you're looking for.

Thx for the input.

[Words]

What? I was not stating anything about any "deep" "why's", that is, why you were doing whatever you did. I also don't like to be told those "deep" guesses about why I do things so I'm with you on this one.

I told you why I stopped talking to you. You responded with

Nope, you stopped talking to me because you thought I was questioning your type. Actually, what happened was that I made an absolutely innocent post on the forum in reply to yours where I simply corrected you on some statement and you took that badly for some reason and that's when you put me on ignore. I was not asking you a question, was not prodding you, I was simply correcting your statement in terms of good methods of typing *in general*. I don't know why you took it personally.

You are telling me why I did things and telling me the reasons why I did things that I hold are incorrect and I have no idea why I do things.

If you can't see how that's annoying then I am at a loss to explain to you how it is, just that, it is.

I only described what happened and described my intentions. You explicitly took an issue with me bringing up your type so that's why I mentioned that. If you had not said so explicitly, I would not have said it here either.

You putting me on ignore, I did make the assumption that you took my post personally. But that's what anyone would think. Idk why you did it if it wasn't that, so feel free to tell me the reasons for it if you want. I'm not really worried about it tho'.




I didn't mean to invalidate any feelings of yours but that post truly was not directed at you in any personal way so your reaction did leave me quite baffled. I have no problem with you personally, btw.




Ah, no, when I do written English, I don't feel more deliberate than my default, just more detached. I don't know how extensive the research was on this but I'm very sure spoken English is different for me, more instinctive than written English, which is more detached.




Thx for the input.

This stuff seems to be going on forever, it seems like you are quite an anal person, and I don't mean that offensively, would you say that you are? Might be type related and give an opportunity to talk about yourself which could draw some info out of which might reflect a type composite.

BTW maybe some time I will explain to you what annoyed me about one of your posts to me in particular, if you are curious.

[Myst]

I told you why I stopped talking to you. You responded with

You are telling me why I did things and telling me the reasons why I did things that I hold are incorrect and I have no idea why I do things.

If you can't see how that's annoying then I am at a loss to explain to you how it is, just that, it is.

I didn't actually say that you have no idea why you do things. It does leave me baffled as to why you'd state those other reasons for stopping to talk to me. Not the same thing as questioning your motives or anything, tho'.

(Yes it would be annoying to me too if someone actually tried to tell me that I have no idea why I do things)

This stuff seems to be going on forever, it seems like you are quite an anal person, and I don't mean that offensively, would you say that you are? Might be type related and give an opportunity to talk about yourself which could draw some info out of which might reflect a type composite.

I can insist on things being in a specific way/correct things, sure. If we made up a scale of 0-10 for how anal someone is, I would maybe place myself on 7 or something like that because I don't take it to such extremes like some people do. I'm the same way with perfectionism, I stop at one point where I don't see a point to go beyond a degree of focusing on it.

BTW maybe some time I will explain to you what annoyed me about one of your posts to me in particular, if you are curious.

Sure, feel free to tell me whenever you want

[Myst]

I think if it's between ISTj and ESTp that you are probably ESTp because I see IJ as typically more deliberate and less reactive than the ESTp, you have quicker fluctuations and wider fluctuations of behaviour reflecting your energy which seems to be associated with EP over IJ.

Ah I see this edit only now. Don't know where you see these fluctuations of energy online? Really, I have no idea. Do feel free to tell me. If you met me IRL, by default you'd find I'm quite.. calm, reserved, not very spontaneous. I just observe / watch things by default, though I can move into action suddenly, intervening in whatever in a deliberate way. I don't think that on its own qualifies me for Ep temperament? My body language is also quite "closed", when I watch extraverts I feel so different from them in terms of that. When I considered SLE as my typing, I thought something was off, I just don't look extraverted, let alone any kind of Ep when I'm with some company / people and I imagined that if people met me offline from this forum, I would not meet their expectations of what an extravert is. I just went with SLE originally because of a few other things in descriptions that seemed to fit me but this one wasn't really matching up.

That's enough for now but I'll make that post later about @Deer Woman's idea (of explaining what seemed SLE that actually fits LSI)

[mikemex]

What is "that". That I find conflictor isn't actually the type that causes the most conflict interacting with? That's actually what the theory predicts. If you meant something else, do let me know.

That you feel more at ease around IEEs than EIIs, it' not what theory predicts. If you measure interactions by how much you quarrel IRL and such, then yes, conflictors *usually* don't rub against each other much, but only because they have a tendency to avoid each other. However, when forced by circumstance to share a close psychological distance then it quickly becomes unbearable. This is because each function requires a certain level of "energy", the dominant and demonstrative being the most efficient and the PoLR and suggestive the least. And forcing you to use the least preferred functions quickly exhausts you. It's like trying to lift heavy objects with the muscles of your belly: it can be done, but it's not your preferred method by a large margin. And the kind of repulsion between conflictors is exactly that: a result of both being exhausted and just trying to run away from the situation. This is where patience is lost and trivial stuff escalates into conflict. Not to mention the feeling of being misunderstood and unappreciated.

As I said before, I do agree that we seem to be following in opposite directions. Precisely why I don't bother arguing for long

And on re-reading this, it really makes sense that IEE is my conflictor. Your analysis is really pretty good. I wanted to emphasize this

Also, I did ask you about, where did you get the idea that I see your Ne as an SLE would. If you do have an answer you can put into words, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Opposite directions in the same path. Basically, conflictors care about the same things but they have diametral opposite approach to them. For example, both IEE and LSI generally have social order interest that they share, but the IEE is generally concerned about liberty and LSI about order and regulation. Often IEEs don't understand that order and regulation constrict individual freedom but in exchange for many other benefits. And LSI often care so much about order and regulation that they forget the big picture and lose track of the benefit it's supposed to bring (it becomes an end and not a mean).

In general, think any two *healthy* conflictors would feel admiration for each other deep down, because both should be aware of their deficiencies and be amazed by someone who deals with them without effort. Only unhealthy individuals think their way is the only way and that adds up to the possibility to quarrel and such. But it's lack of maturity in general and not a type-related thing.

As for why I think you're SLE and not LSI, I'd say I don't know you well enough to have a final opinion about it. It's just an impression. Intuition doesn't really have intermediary steps you can explain.. but I can make an effort to analyze what supports that conclusion and tell you about it (which is what you're interested in the end, I suppose).

P. S. Thanks for the compliment BTW. I spend a considerable amount of time lurking in several forums and I always try to bring up useful content around here for others to benefit from.

[Myst]

That you feel more at ease around IEEs than EIIs, it' not what theory predicts. If you measure interactions by how much you quarrel IRL and such, then yes, conflictors *usually* don't rub against each other much, but only because they have a tendency to avoid each other. However, when forced by circumstance to share a close psychological distance then it quickly becomes unbearable. This is because each function requires a certain level of "energy", the dominant and demonstrative being the most efficient and the PoLR and suggestive the least. And forcing you to use the least preferred functions quickly exhausts you. It's like trying to lift heavy objects with the muscles of your belly: it can be done, but it's not your preferred method by a large margin. And the kind of repulsion between conflictors is exactly that: a result of both being exhausted and just trying to run away from the situation. This is where patience is lost and trivial stuff escalates into conflict. Not to mention the feeling of being misunderstood and unappreciated.

I don't think I said I feel more at ease around IEEs, just that I don't have that much conflict with them by default. True, it's probably due to the natural avoidance. I may have to update my post in that other thread about my intertype relations because I have recently run into an IEE that I'm kinda forced to interact with pretty reguarly. I hope that this won't last long because it's pretty fucking annoying yes. "Unbearable" isn't an understatement at all, lol. We quarrel a lot if but I'm really better off with avoiding her whenever I can - and of course the same is true for her - because none of these conflicts are constructive at all. She's also not very healthy so that just adds to it. We do very much misunderstand each other - mutually feeling misunderstood. And worse.

Opposite directions in the same path. Basically, conflictors care about the same things but they have diametral opposite approach to them. For example, both IEE and LSI generally have social order interest that they share, but the IEE is generally concerned about liberty and LSI about order and regulation. Often IEEs don't understand that order and regulation constrict individual freedom but in exchange for many other benefits. And LSI often care so much about order and regulation that they forget the big picture and lose track of the benefit it's supposed to bring (it becomes an end and not a mean).

Oh yes she (this IEE mentioned above) does have interest in a kind of social order and I thought that was cool but we approach the topic very differently.

In general, think any two *healthy* conflictors would feel admiration for each other deep down, because both should be aware of their deficiencies and be amazed by someone who deals with them without effort. Only unhealthy individuals think their way is the only way and that adds up to the possibility to quarrel and such. But it's lack of maturity in general and not a type-related thing.

Haha guilty of that a bit.. about thinking my way is the only way. I was trying to deal with her in a constructive way first but I quickly got annoyed. Then bad stuff ensued. Same pattern still playing out unless I can avoid talking to her but that's not always an option.

As for why I think you're SLE and not LSI, I'd say I don't know you well enough to have a final opinion about it. It's just an impression. Intuition doesn't really have intermediary steps you can explain.. but I can make an effort to analyze what supports that conclusion and tell you about it (which is what you're interested in the end, I suppose).

OK if you can get to that analysis I'd really appreciate it.

P. S. Thanks for the compliment BTW. I spend a considerable amount of time lurking in several forums and I always try to bring up useful content around here for others to benefit from.

Heh, guess we can be two healthy enough conflictors

[Persephone]

That's how people who are dead sure about being an SLE go towards an LSI.
How to collapse the whole system regarding ITR....
Yeah I am necrobumping, I hope it did not kill anyone.

[Myst]

That's how people who are dead sure about being an SLE go towards an LSI.
How to collapse the whole system regarding ITR....
Yeah I am necrobumping, I hope it did not kill anyone.

Never saw the problem with necrobumping

Tbh, when SLE was my typing, I did always -at least vaguely- consider the LSI option in the background. Now with this typing, switching back to SLE typing would require quite some modification of the system first

Heh and ITR, I don't believe in the overly speculative and unprovable nuances in it. That part can't collapse because they never stood solidly

[Myst]

Gah Myst, you're not even LSI, just stop responding. I thought SLE for awhile, you're certainly no introvert, but then thinking about it LSE makes more sense. The way you're always demanding more and more and more information from people, more data more data and you can never just look at what someone wrote and figure anything out from it. You never actually understand anything. I even entertained an ethical type for you as your Ti is so damn awful, but then I have the same reaction to Adam Strange. I think it's more that it's just in the ignoring position for both of you with some other things going on, perhaps subtype or something (because a lot of Te leads have no such problems with Ti at all.) Your Ni however is even worse. Shit, I told someone I wouldn't respond to you, even put you on ignore to prevent the urge. . . and here I've gone and done just that. Knowing you were screwing up the thread with your crap just got to me. Damn it. Everything just goes completely over your head. You can't even see that the Golihov description of Te is you - that right there is how you come across, and the whole "rules are my life" thing you said - can you not see how it's exactly what was described for that Te lead?

This is what that joke what's his name made was referring to - you called his typing apophenia. Ni is related to seeing patterns in things, so someone who is Ni polr will not see the patterns, and will think things are apophenia when they are not. The fact that even this joke has to be explained to you. . . And that's what pisses me off the most EVERYTHING has to be explained to you, and yet you think you're Ti lead. I entertained the idea that maybe you're autistic or something and that explains it, but no, not even that can explain your absolute complete defunct use of Ti. If this seems excessive - it's because I've been holding my tongue for so long, trying to be nice. Which I guess I'll try to go back to doing and leave you on ignore. . .

I'm glad you finally stopped being passive-aggressive like with that like of yours to Slade's post in the member type thread.

Wow, your ridiculous claims here. I can't even take this seriously, it's too absurd for that. Too much distortion of things as well. And I was "screwing up" the thread? What's this paranoia? This is really really absurd, this post of yours, no point in bothering with it.


I guess it's just your Se devaluing tho', since you expressed this worry to me before that I was ruining the peace. Very Ne/Si valuing of you.

And complete defunct use of Ti? You aren't even being consistent with your claims. If you want to type me LSE, well LSE still has 3D strong Ti. What you think is "complete defunct use of Ti" is just my Rational inflexibility compared to your Irrationally flexible way of utilizing Ti.

And all this crap after I did try to pay attention to not be too argumentative when replying to your posts. I really took a lot of attention for that previously and I even defended you in a thread (the one that I PM'd you about, the Ti PoLR thread). Someone else already questioned you being LSI there and I was responding to that respecting your self-typing as best as possible. My opinion changed since then though, yep. Why should I respect it now anymore, either.

You are like Slugabed, you took offense to my posts in the same way and you think you have "extra" Ti like Slugabed also thinks so about herself. SLI does have strong Ti demo, though, sure, especially SLI-Te which I think makes the most sense for you. (I won't do a mention on Slugabed because we are not talking to each other but someone else can if someone wants her to read it where she was being referred to. :shrug)


So yes, I think it's you who's not even a Ti valuer. I'm pretty sure of it by now, I just didn't want to question it publicly, though I hinted at it to you in an earlier PM. And I'm sure about your Se devaluing as well, beyond your worry of Se ruining the peace, for example this about your approach to goals is Se devaluing. The Ti devaluing is obvious from how you reason in the member type thread (that I'm still reading). Your Ti is not in Ego if you don't view Ti as part of society, which is clear from your posts there. And if you feel I ask for too much explaining, that's also your Ti devaluing, you do not wish to delve into Ti that much.

All in all. Nice Fi outburst of yours here hey. I saw you do this to other members before. Whatever's up with that.

Anyway, as for the ignore, sure, yeah, fuck off with your bs.

[squark]

I guess it's just your Se devaluing tho', since you expressed this worry to me before that I was ruining the peace. Very Ne/Si valuing of you.

I never complained about ruining the peace - I told you to back off of Slugabed because she asked you to and you couldn't see how your continued pressure on her was being a jerk. It's that kind of non-awareness that made me wonder if you were autistic, but may just be weak/devalued Fe with Ni polr.

-- And I realize you won't understand anything else I say, and will misinterpret it, so I'll stop here.

edit: And have some decency to keep PMs as PMs (private. messages) Seriously, this shouldn't need to be said.

[Myst]

I never complained about ruining the peace - I told you to back off of Slugabed because she asked you to and you couldn't see how your continued pressure on her was being a jerk. It's that kind of non-awareness that made me wonder if you were autistic, but may just be weak/devalued Fe with Ni polr.

-- And I realize you won't understand anything else I say, and will misinterpret it, so I'll stop here.

Bolded: devalued Se.

Fuck off already with your nonsensical insults, darling.

Also stop distorting shit. When Slugabed asked me to not talk to her anymore, I complied fine. You were not asking me to do so and there was no need to. You were explicitly just worried about a tendency of the peace being ruined on this forum with too much aggression and I asked you if this was because of my conflict with Slugabed and you said yes. At that point my conflict already ended with Slugabed by my respecting her request to not talk to each other, you sent that PM later only. This is what actually happened, stop lying.


As for your edit, I'm not quoting PMs, so I have decency here more than you, with you distorting things to the point of lying.

[Adam Strange]

Gah Myst, you're not even LSI, just stop responding. I thought SLE for awhile, you're certainly no introvert, but then thinking about it LSE makes more sense. The way you're always demanding more and more and more information from people, more data more data and you can never just look at what someone wrote and figure anything out from it. You never actually understand anything. I even entertained an ethical type for you as your Ti is so damn awful, but then I have the same reaction to Adam Strange. I think it's more that it's just in the ignoring position for both of you with some other things going on, perhaps subtype or something (because a lot of Te leads have no such problems with Ti at all.) Your Ni however is even worse. Shit, I told someone I wouldn't respond to you, even put you on ignore to prevent the urge. . . and here I've gone and done just that. Knowing you were screwing up the thread with your crap just got to me. Damn it. Everything just goes completely over your head. You can't even see that the Golihov description of Te is you - that right there is how you come across, and the whole "rules are my life" thing you said - can you not see how it's exactly what was described for that Te lead?

This is what that joke what's his name made was referring to - you called his typing apophenia. Ni is related to seeing patterns in things, so someone who is Ni polr will not see the patterns, and will think things are apophenia when they are not. The fact that even this joke has to be explained to you. . . And that's what pisses me off the most EVERYTHING has to be explained to you, and yet you think you're Ti lead. I entertained the idea that maybe you're autistic or something and that explains it, but no, not even that can explain your absolute complete defunct use of Ti. If this seems excessive - it's because I've been holding my tongue for so long, trying to be nice. Which I guess I'll try to go back to doing and leave you on ignore. . .

Hi, @squark.
I've seen pics of @Myst and interacted with her for a long time, and I do think she's LSI-Se.
I've had two LSI GF's, so I'm fairly familiar with the type.

-Adam

[ashlesha]

Hi, @squark.
I've seen pics of @Myst and interacted with her for a long time, and I do think she's LSI-Se.
I've had two LSI GF's, so I'm fairly familiar with the type.

-Adam

Te lol

[darya]

Fwiw, Myst VI's very much like a LSI imo.

[GuavaDrunk]

I think you're both a/ very different people b/ LSIs.

I find that I nitpick about personal differences with my identicals far more than I do with anyone else.

[Myst]

I think you're both a/ very different people b/ LSIs.

I find that I nitpick about personal differences with my identicals far more than I do with anyone else.

I don't care about her type all that much, simply don't have time for that (let alone investment, see my post on Socionics in the other thread), and also because I don't know her IRL. It's just the nature of the interactions with her that I saw that I analyzed closely.

Interesting about your last sentence, I don't really nitpick more about my Identicals than about anyone else once I see that they fit the definitions I use.

[Myst]

It's not that. It's that I try really hard to clear things up and remove confusion. I really want people to understand things clearly. And I thought this thread was a nice discussion - people were discussing things, coming to more understanding - that's awesome, we're all learning something, then she shows up and shits on everything because she doesn't understand it. And this is like the 100th time she's done that. She starts correcting people when she doesn't even know what they're saying, and it gets hard to take. What she types herself isn't the issue - it's that she uses herself as an example for everything and because she has her type wrong (imo) it just ends up confusing rather than clarifying. She can't even step back and be objective and take herself out of the picture. If she wanted to talk about Te and Ti from the standpoint of the theory, that'd be fine, but she never does that - it's always about how she relates to something or doesn't. And talking about how you relate to something or not, or giving your opinion is also fine - just not if you're using your feelings about something to try to argue with actual correct understanding of things. That kind of pisses me off.

Idk if that makes sense, and it probably shouldn't bother me, but man, it really does, because I want to understand things, make them clear and help make it clear for other people too, and people mucking that up really annoys me. For whatever reason, that's hard to ignore. I don't exactly know why it bothers me so much. But, I said what I needed to, and people can draw their own conclusions. I don't have anything else to say about it and she's back on ignore, so that's that.

This is your own little pov, and it's not reality. Just because your understanding differs from mine it doesn't mean I don't understand anything, lol. Unless someone asks me to, I won't waste my time on correcting all your distortions here one by one, but you are really bullshitting here. Congratulations for the heavy bias you are displaying here. I don't see how anyone can be this bad with it. Calm down and stop bullshitting.

PS: what SLIs tend to be bothered by about me is that I freely make definite assertions/judgments. Maybe that's your problem, too, perceiving that as too much pushiness and closing options (Ne) too fast for your liking.

[Myst]

It's not that. It's that I try really hard to clear things up and remove confusion. I really want people to understand things clearly. And I thought this thread was a nice discussion - people were discussing things, coming to more understanding - that's awesome, we're all learning something (...)

Idk if that makes sense, and it probably shouldn't bother me, but man, it really does, because I want to understand things, make them clear and help make it clear for other people too, and people mucking that up really annoys me. For whatever reason, that's hard to ignore. I don't exactly know why it bothers me so much.

(...) you couldn't see how your continued pressure on her was being a jerk.

Ne DS/Se devaluing:

"It is almost impossible to get an SLI to do something that is more complicated than what he is already doing. The same holds true on a mental level; SLIs admire people who are able to reduce phenomena to their essential characteristics, thus making it easier and easier to think about things.

SLIs easily lose their clarity of thought when people direct anger and negative emotions at them"

I also see this a lot in our arguments with you quitting it fast always and not just with me but with @niffer too for example: "Otherwise, SLIs can become uncommonly stubborn if people use too much emotion, abstract reasoning, haste, or pressure when dealing with them."

(Source: http://socionist.blogspot.hu/2008/06...scription.html)

[Slade]

This is your own little pov, and it's not reality. Just because your understanding differs from mine it doesn't mean I don't understand anything, lol. Unless someone asks me to, I won't waste my time on correcting all your distortions here one by one, but you are really bullshitting here. Congratulations for the heavy bias you are displaying here. I don't see how anyone can be this bad with it. Calm down and stop bullshitting.

I think it's pretty clear to anyone with functioning mental capacities that your ability to comprehend material presented to you is fairly low. That aside, how is it that you consider yourself an authority on what an LSI is when it appears that most people who have taken time to assess your type seem to come to the conclusion of SLE. I think you are more in denial than you give yourself credit for.

[Myst]

I think it's pretty clear to anyone with functioning mental capacities that your ability to comprehend material presented to you is fairly low.

In your fantasies only. Or many people on this forum don't have "functioning mental capacities".

That aside, how is it that you consider yourself an authority on what an LSI is when it appears that most people who have taken time to assess your type seem to come to the conclusion of SLE. I think you are more in denial than you give yourself credit for.

People are 50/50 on LSI/SLE for me - that is, some are for LSI, some are for SLE and it's about 50/50 at worst, definitely not "most people" claim SLE for me. Stop distorting the facts, thank-you.

Feel free to post in my type thread though about this if you want. This is off topic here.