Near Death story

[Eliza Thomason]

I just found this, linked elsewhere, and started reading it. It starts out where she is struck by lightening, sees white light, heaven. It looks good so I am going to keep reading it. It sounds like it has the ring of truth to it, so far.
http://newagedangers.files.wordpress...lo-english.pdf

[Not A Communist Shill]

Such stories are very common - it seems I have to reply to such an incident about every 3 months or so.

'Near Death Experiences' can be readily recreated under test conditions through the uses of various drugs such as ketamine, and can also be experienced from simply collapsing due to exhaustion rather than anything especially serious. The experiences encountered are also often culturally-specific, which suggests that there is nothing divine in origin about NDEs.

[Birdie]

I dont know SubT, some NDEs seem pretty legit to me. I think you just have to sort
the trash from the treasure. No doubt drugs can cause a similar reaction though lol.

Also, exhaustion kills.

[Eliza Thomason]

I dont know SubT, some NDEs seem pretty legit to me. I think you just have to sort
the trash from the treasure. ...

Yes there are true and there are false NDEs. For one not adverse to the glaring light of truth, that is obvious. That is because the evil ones who prowl throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls imitate the things of God, to mock them.

In some cases, one does not want to look for truth. Sometimes we have areas of life we covet and know inside are wrong and we don't want to be influenced to change them, so, we avoid truth. At least that is one reason I know of for purposely avoiding truth.

* * * * *

I am still reading that link and it speaks truth. A woman is struck by lightening - I assume God is going to heal her scorched body at the end of this story as well as her mind, which He is clearly doing as she lies on the operating table and is seeing the truth of her life. Below, a quote from what I am now reading, which I thought to post here, as I know its the truth, and I have often been concerned for some of the 16types members here who dabble in things that they do not realize are portals to invite the evil ones access to their daily life, and their peace is ruined:

...You know therefore that, when we have recourse to
magic, it does not matter for whatever, the beast imprints his seal. When we
go to some enchanter, or diviner, or fortune-teller, or astrologer, or to one
who invokes the spirits, in all of these places the devil places his seal, his
stamp.
I found myself in one of these places when I went with a friend, who brought
me to an enchanter to consult her, to predict my future: there I was marked
by the beast. The evil one put on me his seal. The worst thing was that,
beginning from that day, in which by way of that lady I received the stamp of
evil, I began to have disturbances: nocturnal agitation, nightmares, anxieties,
fears, and even a profound desire to suicide! I did not understand the why of
these desires! I cried, I felt unhappy, and never again did I feel in peace. I
prayed, but I felt the Lord far from me: never again did I sense that nearness
with Him, that instead I had when I was little. Of course! I had opened the
doors to the beast, and the evil one had entered with force into my life.

A bit later and still reading on this rainy day... Now she is talking about the evils of IUDs, which I already know are evil, besides putting a woman's normal heath at great risk....

[Not A Communist Shill]

I think if any god existed, they would have better sense than to have encounters under such sketchy conditions!

[Eliza Thomason]

Wow. I am now on page 58: "The Return", down towards the bottom. Jesus must miraculously heal her body, "toast", outside and in, making her burnt skin and organs new, in this rest of the story. I am assuming probably, as she looks pretty healthy at the top of the page. I am sure her soul is now well on the road to healing after this through look at her life, which she shares, which is most of this story. We never know when our hour will come, and this woman got to see her whole life, and it was miserable. I cannot say if my moment was now I woudl fair much better. By God's grace I have avoided some of her errors, but that does not mean I am better. To those who have been given more, more is expected... At any rate, I am not feeling so great about what I have accomplished and I need God's Mercy.

[Aylen]

I think if any god existed, they would have better sense than to have encounters under such sketchy conditions!

I have had a couple NDEs. No god there but there was darkness and some sadness and the awareness of lots of other spirits around me but nothing particularly bad or good about them. I realized the only judgment I would face was my own and it was a temporary thing. In that case there was a tunnel-like experience before going to the darkness, I was revived quickly.

The second one was pretty amazing though but nothing angelic or specifically religious about it. I spent a long time after that one not sure if I was actually dead or alive. It took therapy to convince me that I was in fact still alive because I had been revived. Both had profound effects on me.

I have been doing OOBEs and lucid dreaming for the past few weeks, almost daily, and it has been pretty intense with some vivid imagery and yes some precognition involved. Nothing I can prove was precognitive online but I have some amazed friend's and family members lately.

Telling you this is like deja vu.

This works when I am open to it. I am using different kinds of binaurals while I sleep and my dreams are more lucid and I can manipulate things within them and be consciously aware I am dreaming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03neE9qL84g

http://youtu.be/KNuoGeD9Qeo

I do know I have been using this as an escape but it was beneficial for me at the time to deal with some stuff. I am now going to be a bit more balanced between worlds or at least try to be. Binaurals are very addictive.

[Eliza Thomason]

I think if any god existed, they would have better sense than to have encounters under such sketchy conditions!

Subteigh, you are not wise.

[Not A Communist Shill]

You could learn something from the ways of children.

[Eliza Thomason]

@Subteigh, I also want to say I appreciate an admirable aesthetic I see in you, and you are intelligent and affable. (Though, those things in themselves pale in comparison to wisdom, in my opinion..)

[Not A Communist Shill]

This is fine, I forgive you.

[Eliza Thomason]

I have had a couple NDEs. No god there but there was darkness and some sadness and the awareness of lots of other spirits around me but nothing particularly bad or good about them. I realized the only judgment I would face was my own and it was a temporary thing. In that case there was a tunnel-like experience before going to the darkness, I was revived quickly.

The second one was pretty amazing though but nothing angelic or specifically religious about it. I spent a long time after that one not sure if I was actually dead or alive. It took therapy to convince me that I was in fact still alive because I had been revived. Both had profound effects on me.

I have been doing OOBEs and lucid dreaming for the past few weeks, almost daily, and it has been pretty intense with some vivid imagery and yes some precognition involved. Nothing I can prove was precognitive online but I have some amazed friend's and family members lately.

Telling you this is like deja vu.

This works when I am open to it. I am using different kinds of binaurals while I sleep and my dreams are more lucid and I can manipulate things within them and be consciously aware I am dreaming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03neE9qL84g

http://youtu.be/KNuoGeD9Qeo

I do know I have been using this as an escape but it was beneficial for me at the time to deal with some stuff. I am now going to be a bit more balanced between worlds or at least try to be. Binaurals are very addictive.

I have not heard of Binaurals before this, but Aylen, you are one of the ones I have worried about sometimes. You seem very open to freely dabbling in anything, and something are more powerful than you might think. So I am reading about the tones and beats a bit, out of curiosity. They do seem beloved by New Age folk, and so I know that much connected to the New Age truly will invite demons to make a home in your life. So say, convincingly, those who have were once deeply immersed in it, and have since renounced it. I don't know about the tones and beats here, but, if you say they are addictive, I cannot think its a good thing. Well, at least for you. (Alcohol can be addictive, too, which does not make it bad itself for all. But we all know that for some it quickly becomes an enslaving addiction and that they need to avoid that which is poison to them).

[Aylen]

I have not heard of Binaurals before this, but Aylen, you are one of the ones I have worried about sometimes. You seem very open to freely dabbling in anything, and something are more powerful than you might think. So I am reading about the tones and beats a bit, out of curiosity. They do seem beloved by New Age folk, and so I know that much connected to the New Age truly will invite demons to make a home in your life. So say, convincingly, those who have were once deeply immersed in it, and have since renounced it. I don't know about the tones and beats here, but, if you say they are addictive, I cannot think its a good thing. Well, at least for you. (Alcohol can be addictive, too, which does not make it bad itself for all. But we all know that for some it quickly becomes an enslaving addiction and that they need to avoid that which is poison to them).

Eliza, I do appreciate your concern for my soul and I mean this sincerely since I know what it feels like to worry about the fate of the people I love, and even complete strangers, after death. It kept me up at night and gave me horrible nightmares. I didn't want them to go to hell and I spent a lot of time preaching to them and using the same scare tactics used on me. Fortunately I had an ILI step dad that stepped in and stepped up and was able to get through to me. He showed me what it is like to really think for myself and not be part of the "herd", as he liked to put it. I know it sounded kind of harsh that he did this but I am a free thinker because of it and it was one of the greatest gifts anyone has ever given me. I use this "gift" in order to discern for myself and never take anything presented to me by another as "truth" until I see for myself what rings true and what doesn't. I do this with socionics information as well.

I was raised Greek Orthodox (very similar to Catholicism) with a bit of Mormon and Baptist thrown in (from my Aunt by marriage). In my later teens I decided to go the "born again" Christian route so technically my soul is covered if I choose to believe the "born agains". I was disillusioned by all this by my 21st birthday. I have since explored various religions and philosophies, spending more hours than I could possibly keep track of reading and absorbing massive amounts of information on all kinds of spiritual philosophies and theories.I was basically a bookworm during that time but it was very beneficial because I learned a lot about mythology and how it correlates to modern day religions.

I have also died before and came back with an inner "knowing" that all the fear was pointless. I do not fear death. I actually welcome it when the time is right, of course. I come from a family of people who are able to see and talk to dead people and I have inherited this. I have communicated with the spirit world since childhood and even then I was doing seances, and stuff like that, never even hearing about the "new age" until I was older. I do not identify myself as a "new ager" for the record. I find it a bit insulting when people refer to my beliefs as "new age" since many of them are quite ancient. I take the messages I get from my dead loved ones pretty seriously actually. This is not something I like to share publicly because it tends to earn me some labels such as "weird" or "shizo" but I am telling you that I am and will be ok. I know this and any energy spent worrying about me specifically is a waste of energy. I know you will continue to worry about people you care about though and I respect your beliefs.

I can't, nor do I want to, diss your beliefs because I went through my "angry at religion" victimy phase already and stopped lashing out years ago. I did not like myself so much when I would go on religious sites in order to shred people's Christian beliefs by posting my anti-religion views and new agey type videos, just to get a reaction, with the idea that others would break free. I was acting the same way I acted as a born again but the situations were reversed. I have come to terms with that phase of my breaking free. I had Christian beliefs cruelly indoctrinated in me as a child, by my aunt. It did a psychological number on me that I am still sorting through in therapy. I have shared this with you before and I don't want to go into it again.

I have been told by many people, including therapists, that people like me are not meant for this world, yet somehow we find ourselves here and there is a reason for it. I believe the internet has made it more acceptable than it was when I was a child but there are always going to be people that find us loony or whatever. I don't care. I am going to continue to trust myself above all. It can be no other way for me. My comment on binaurals was meant to be playful. They are addictive in the same way that taking a supplement every day can be for some people. It helps me feel better and I don't see any danger in listening to tones I find soothing or energizing. For me it is better than a vitamin for energy or chamomile tea to relax (never worked for me). I do tend to have an addictive personality but I am also very good at letting things go that no longer serve me, including my beliefs, people and feelings. If I am guilty of any of the "deadly sins" pride is high up there because I pride myself on being self aware.

I don't want to sound like I am patronizing you but I understand your side of things since I have deeply explored it already and I am not afraid. That was my past but my eye is now on the future. Thanks for responding. I think there have been some things left unsaid between you and I, in other threads, and this gave me an opportunity to finish up what we started months ago in the hell thread. I wouldn't change a thing about you. I think you are experiencing life they way you were meant to and so am I. Even though we are very different in many ways, especially in morals, I do feel a link to your energy and it is very light and easy for me to connect to.

Anyway I have said way more than I intended but again thanks for thinking about me and I don't mind if you keep me in your prayers (good vibes from others, sent my way, are always appreciated) but I hope you will keep me out of your worries.

[some chair]

Oh, interesting, I had a communion with something spiritual on my latest robotrip, which is both a dissociative and a sigma-1 agonist. I don't think that the pharmacological status of NDEs really speaks for anything. I think entheogens, even robotic and man-made ones, have the potential to bring us into contact with the human aspect of the cosmos, and the cosmic aspect of humanity. I find it puzzlingly resolute that spirituality and God must just be chemical and attributional glitches inside a narcissistic machine.

[Eliza Thomason]

@Aylen!

Thanks for explaining! I did wonder about your spiritual background but I didn't know if you wanted to share it.

Thanks you for the dear things you said about me and affirming my way! It was kind, and I cherish it. Thanks.

Perhaps I should worry about peoples salvation, but I don't so much. I do pray when worry is there, but also I keep in mind that God is at work in ways unseen, and I don't presume to know what I can't know. I used to worry more, when I was Evangelical Baptist, as you were once, too. I am still the same as I was then in that I know that it is Christ for whom all our hearts are longing and we will not find rest til we come to Him, who loves us. But one thing that concerned me then was the feeling that the whole world was divided into two - the saved and unsaved; it was very black and white. Now I see it more on a continuum. Conversion being a constant process, there is no real "having arrived forever" vs. "looks damned so far" as to salvation. When I discovered the Catholic view of Salvation it was a coming home, and that black/white issue was solved for me. I don't know how much I should explain it because I don't know how much interest there is. But it is different. More true!

Yes, there are real similarities to Greek Orthodox and Catholic. Pope St. John Paul II called the Orthodox "the other lung" of the Catholic church. The celebration of Divine Liturgy there is very beautiful and deep.

Mormon! Where can I start. I have read extensively on Mormon faith and on its teaching, and on its history, and on the lives of current and past Mormons and I have had close relations with those whose lives are that, and spent time socializing and attending services and activities of all kinds with them, so I really understand that community life as well as their ODD theology. Some very fine and admirable people are bound up in that. I do firmly believe practice of her Mormonism made my close friend's severe PTSD much worse, and its not a place for those with that, I strongly believe! However, they do much practical service for those of their own in need, so, its hard not to stay! And that shyster Joe Smith originated not far from where I lived.

I am interested in conversion stories and people's stories of religion in their lives. I have noticed sadly that many who leave Mormonism leave God and religion altogether. Then there are others raised in Christian homes who leave "organized religion" because they feel they have been there, done that, and found it wanting. ("Organized religion", these days, is often spoken of with disdain, but who wants "disorganized religion"??). They don't know how much they are missing, I can only say.

With so many atheists here on 16types, far more than I know in real life, I got interested in knowing where people are coming from, so I ordered several books this fall. One I really enjoyed was Jennifer Fulwiler's book. She was "raised atheist" and happy to be one, but surprise, she unexpectedly found faith, and her book, "Something Other Than God" was a real page-turner and really helped me understand where she was coming from when she was atheist - very reasonable, and made perfect sense!

You were blessed to have an ILI step-dad who taught you to think for yourself. We all need to! Faith without reason would be so lacking, like believing in a fairy tale.

It is not sounding harsh to me that he thinks its "herd" mentality. However, its an untrue generalization, because in any group there are those with a herd mentality; it does not mean the whole "herd" has it ! Some of us are very, very anti-herd! So, lack of logic and reality there.

No, don't go into cruel indoctrination you endured, I would not want you to revisit that. Those words say enough of the truth of what you suffered. Its very sad you had to go through that. Its good you have learned and read a lot. Mythologies, yes, not sure where you went with that learning but I do get so bored with the History Channel's "Bible Scholars!" who say our beliefs are all myth-based. No, its not, and those vain and proud scholars are BORING.. (I am not saying you are saying that, Aylen!)

A certain amount of pride is important. Do you ever admire humility? Its one of the things that I noticed about the huge wide world of Catholics, that strange world I entered when I converted, a world including so much diversity, including so many who go to Mass growing up and have no idea what their faith really teaches. I see these as incredibly rich people who sadly go around thinking they are dirt-poor. Because no one told them whats in their account. But one thing common to that diverse group of Catholics that I had not seen in any other people-groups was the common presence of the virtue of humility. It was not a virtue I had previously esteemed, but now I do, particularly after getting to know some giants of humility in the lives of Saints. (It truly is a "mark of a Saint". Of course; Jesus had it. (Then look at the life of that horrible Joseph Smith - he had none.)

I also did tons of reading, Aylen, all my life but particularly when I converted to Catholic, as I lost my entire community I loved when I converted (save a very few dear ones), and I never would have put myself through that without truly believing, and I had a lot of lifetime anti-Catholic "false witness" to undo. I read volumes and volumes on the Catholic faith, and truly, it is a treasure trove of riches. When people doubt - or diss - the Catholic faith, I know it is ignorance. I know that if they knew what I knew, they would love it (if they love truth).

Thanks for explaining about binaurals. I take my daily vitamins and such but its not an addiction. Its a logical choice to be healthy and I definitely don't always feel like it, so I cannot call that an addiction. But I see what you are saying and I am not warning you about binaurals in anyway; I really know nothing about binaurals. (My husband chimes in that it doesn't sound like it has anything to do with spirituality).

I am glad you are beyond your anger stage, I don't like to engage in that. However, I admire you are passionate about what you believe in!

I think we are ALL not made for this world, Aylen, its the truth, and some of us, like you, are just more in touch with that reality so its more noticeable. Some are oblivious to it. You are not.

As to being different in morals, maybe not so much. I mean, you want to do what is right, right? You do not want to do harm to others, right? Maybe we are not so different.

Yes, there is much pointlessness to fear. Jesus says, again and again, "Fear not" and "Be anxious for nothing" - He certainly made Himself clear on that one! But He would not have said it if He did not know us and know that there are many things that make us anxious and afraid.

I want you to know that I was not saying you are "New Age". I said that what I googled about the tones, etc., seems to be liked by that sector, but I was not lumping you into some area you had not claimed for yourself. My worry was not that, it was knowing from things that you said that you had dabbled in some things that are commonly considered to a part of that broad umbrella, "New Age". But spirit communication is a "worry" to me, as are seances.

The spirit world is very real, as you know. The spirits are all good or all-bad; its not like people, who for the great part, are a mix of both. The all-bad ones come disguised as "angels of light". They take truth and inject it with just enough falsehood to make it poison. But its enveloped in light, and their intelligence and their special or secret information intrigues and keeps us interested.

I have no experience myself to offer you, I have mostly avoided that stuff in the past and completely avoid it completely now because I love peace. The testimony of others is most convincing, though. Most recently I read Moira Noonan's "Ransomed from Darkness". She was involved in that which you describe and so much more - she used to see multiple "movie screens" of strangers lives as she walked down the streets; she had so many spirits attached to her, giving her streams of information that she was not free to shut off.

So that's what I worry about for you, Aylen, dabbling in that. Noonan says you are inviting demons to make their home in your life by doing that, and that they will torture you. I believe her. I do not have a voice of experience with that stuff, but she sure does. She, also, found it wonderfully intriguing and valuable when she was into it. She embraced it. She came to reject it and values her freedom and peace above all else now, which is worth SO MUCH more.

If you'd like to read that book (or any others I mentioned), I'd be happy to send it to you, free. No obligation to discuss or anything.

If you are not interested I would not be the least offended. You are a good soul, Aylen, I know that.

[Kim]

Eliza, you do not like it when people are disrespectful towards your religion and you have said this many times on the forum. Yet you feel free to trashtalk a vital figure of Mormonism in this last post. How is that not as offensive to Mormons as speaking of, for example, the pope as a *shyster* would be to you?

[Not A Communist Shill]

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you.

Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

[Eliza Thomason]

Eliza, you do not like it when people are disrespectful towards your religion and you have said this many times on the forum. Yet you feel free to trashtalk a vital figure of Mormonism in this last post. How is that not as offensive to Mormons as speaking of, for example, the pope as a *shyster* would be to you?

This is not trash talk. This is the truth. There is a difference. Yes, Mormons would take offense at this truth. I do not want to offend those good persons simply and honestly practicing what they believe to be true. But there are no practicing Mormons on 16types so I am not worried about offending any. (If there were, I'd likely state the same thing, using the same word, as its the truth, though, I would couch it in diplomacy). But for those like Aylen who have at some time been involved in this religion/cult (the jury is out on how to define it; there are good arguments for both terms) I am particularly glad to speak the truth about that Shyster and his made-up religion. It is guilt-producing to leave there once you have been involved, because they systematically indoctrinate their members in how and what to think and what not to question, and those things can nag at a person long after they've left. Perhaps my simple but TRUE conclusion ("shyster") will make some person feeling at all bad for leaving it to think: "Perhaps, maybe, there is some truth to that and I should therefore not feel bad". Then I will have done a good thing to state what's true. The truth sets you free. Better yet, rather than accept my word, they could do their own reading and then they can confidently and logically feel glad to have left!

As to the Pope, one only has to read his life, which is also no secret, as well. The truth speaks for itself.

[Kim]

This is not trash talk. This is the truth. There is a difference. Yes, Mormons would take offense at this truth. I do not want to offend those good persons simply and honestly practicing what they believe to be true.

But you did.

But there are no practicing Mormons on 16types so I am not worried about offending any.

You cannot know this.

[Eliza Thomason]

But you did.
You cannot know this.

I think its a darn good educated guess, Kim. Practicing Mormons usually have an obligation to witness that they are Mormon, that they believe in their book and their "prophet", and in fact often, in my experience, take every opportunity to do so.

[anndelise]

You cannot know this.

There are at least two practicing Mormons on this forum, possibly four.

[anndelise]

I think its a darn good educated guess, Kim. Practicing Mormons usually have an obligation to witness that they are Mormon, that they believe in their book and their "prophet", and in fact take every opportunity to do so.

No they don't.

[Kim]

I think its a darn good educated guess, Kim. Practicing Mormons usually have an obligation to witness that they are Mormon, that they believe in their book and their "prophet", and in fact take every opportunity to do so.

Your educated guess might be wrong. Why is it ok for you to willfully offend a person's religious sentiments, but not for other people to offend yours?

[Not A Communist Shill]

[Hays]

I wanted to think of my afterlife experience as an amazing heaven/spiritual encounter and that I chose to come back for a reason.
I still do think of it this way but I also now know that a lack of oxygen to the brain can cause this to occur and have a breathing machine to use each night to halt the near death experience which I am prone to.

[Esaman]

The second one was pretty amazing though but nothing angelic or specifically religious about it. I s

Well I had experience (not NDE) of being visited by all knowing and unristretedly compasionate being in almost visible grandparent figure...
I was in deep though/reflection. Trying to look at myself, capture myself in totality from outside. Somewhat suddenly and drastically I succeeded.
Identity, ego,outlook, wishes, troubles, insecurities, emotional range/cloud, midset, mindscape of one later aliased Esaman where condenced infront and center of mindvision almost to a small image/object or even symbol/character containing all that.
Appretiating it the seer(I), who was now stripped off all that, felt expansive looking in (no embodiment into ego, persona, body) and felt the kind of compassion you can probably only feel when not having a concern in a world of your own while imbued whith perfect insigth in to the person...
Woah, it is probably nice to be on recieving end this. Perspective flips in a snap.
I am embodied in my bed feeling a presense, the compassion directed at me and almost seeing an old black woman.
My mind selected that image likely because I subconsciously considered an old black woman who has seen dosens of short lives from the begining to an end, including of her own children, to be most likely to have the this kind of pespective. No patriachy in my subconscious.
Between the condensation and disillusionment with the image of the woman under 10 seconds past, not that I didn't return the presense and bask for half an hour.
Someone who would pay less attention to what exactly was happening not to mention magical thinkers could have easily interpreted that as being visited by diety.
Someone did, while having similar experience. Except for the gender this is exactly the profile of Christian god.
Good laughts were had at atheist lucking out on having that experience. "Divine" validation that it is all in respective heads.

Also had tingling in round shape right on top of the head as I was coming down* in the half an hour which as psyychosomatic phenomenon is probably relatable to "crown chakra" in yogic tradition.

*no drugs of any kind were used

[Eliza Thomason]

Your educated guess might be wrong. Why is it ok for you to willfully offend a person's religious sentiments, but not for other people to offend yours?

Kim, people offend mine all the time here! I say something only very occasionally - when its real out of hand. A lot of it is ignorance, which I ignore. People having their own opinions and stating their own opinions are not things that trouble me.

My "shyster" assessment is an honest and informed one. If silent Mormons are present here and want to present their opposing view of Smith, then let them. (I have heard all their canned arguments, myself). But I stand by what I said. Smith was a real man in real (recent) history, and his life can be evaluated, and anyone who studies his life would have a difficult time not calling him the trickster he was. Unless, of course, one has been indoctrinated that is taboo to name as wrong any of the wrongs of their hero.

Do you jump in when people express negative opinions about other religions, as well?

[Eliza Thomason]

@Subteigh - very funny. Hypocrisy is a painful reality, pain makes good humor.

However, I just want to correct a common misconception. The people in that room did not take a vow of poverty. Priests, Bishops and Cardinals do not take a vow of poverty. Only Monks and Nuns (including Priest-Monks) make that particular vow, as well as the vows of chastity and obedience that the priesthood makes. It is not required of Diocesan Priests, who collect a salary.

However there is an element of hypocrisy involved, as, these men are supposed to represent Christ, and some of those - not all - meeting in that room, do live sumptuously - not how Christ lived.

But the beautiful room does represent the artistic expression and God-given talent of many passionate believers over many years which the Church is caretaker of. I think its true that beauty is truth, and there is fullness of truth and beauty in the Catholic Church. That is evident.

However, I don't want to debate Catholic here, or Mormon. New threads are better for that. After Christmas! I have too much to do right now to think on this.

[Kim]

Do you jump in when people express negative opinions about other religions, as well?

I jump in when people complain about people doing something to them that they themselves do to other people.

You say you like peace and do not want to offend Mormons, yet even after you have learned that Mormons post here, you keep on insulting their religion.

[Not A Communist Shill]

@Subteigh - very funny. Hypocrisy is a painful reality, pain makes good humor.

However, I just want to correct a common misconception. The people in that room did not take a vow of poverty. Priests, Bishops and Cardinals do not take a vow of poverty. Only Monks and Nuns (including Priest-Monks) make that particular vow, as well as the vows of chastity and obedience that the priesthood makes. It is not required of Diocesan Priests, who collect a salary.

However there is an element of hypocrisy involved, as, these men are supposed to represent Christ, and some of those - not all - meeting in that room, do live sumptuously - not how Christ lived.

But the beautiful room does represent the artistic expression and God-given talent of many passionate believers over many years which the Church is caretaker of. I think its true that beauty is truth, and there is fullness of truth and beauty in the Catholic Church. That is evident.

However, I don't want to debate Catholic here, or Mormon. New threads are better for that. After Christmas! I have too much to do right now to think on this.

Jorge did choose to name himself after Francis of Assisi and he does attempt to give the perception of living frugally - e.g. by not living in the Apostolic Palace. He hasn't sold the place off yet though - and the Catholic Church is still arguably the richest institution on earth (in terms of wealth).

[Eliza Thomason]

Jorge did choose to name himself after Francis of Assisi and he does attempt to give the perception of living frugally - e.g. by not living in the Apostolic Palace. He hasn't sold the place off yet though - and the Catholic Church is still arguably the richest institution on earth (in terms of wealth).

I love St. Francis, and the Fransicans... Churches "wealth" an interesting discussion for another day...

[Eliza Thomason]

Jorge did choose to name himself after Francis of Assisi and he does attempt to give the perception of living frugally - e.g. by not living in the Apostolic Palace. He hasn't sold the place off yet though - and the Catholic Church is still arguably the richest institution on earth (in terms of wealth).

I love St. Francis, and the Francisans... Church's "wealth" - an interesting discussion for another day...

[xerx]

I like the new pope so far.

[Aylen]

I do not call what I consider my source energy God but I do believe in a source. I have given this book to children in my family because I thought it was a sweet way to introduce them to the spiritual realm and explain why bad things happen to good people and vice versa. I also tell them that my belief is that what other's call god is really a way for them to humanize something that is not comprehensible and that humans want something familiar so god becomes the father figure. I won't go on about my family and their spiritual belief now but thanks for your response Eliza. I need some time to process it and respond.

"There once was a little soul who knew itself to be the light. This was a new soul, and so, anxious for experience. "I am the light," it said. "I am the light." Yet all the knowing of it and all the saying of it could not substitute for the experience of it. And in the realm from which this soul emerged, there was nothing but the light.

Every soul was grand, every soul was magnificent, and every soul shone with the brilliance of MY awesome light. And so the little soul in question was as a candle in the sun. In the midst of the grandest light- of which it was a part- it could not see itself, nor experience itself as Who and What it Really Is.

Now it came to pass, that the little soul yearned and yearned to know itself. And so great was its yearning that "I" one day said, "Do you know little one, what you must do to satisfy this yearning of yours?" "Oh what, God? what? I'll do anything!? The little soul said.

"You must separate yourself from the rest of us," I answered, "and then you must call upon yourself the darkness."

"You may choose to be any Part of God you wish to be," I said to the little soul.

"You are the Absolute Divinity, experiencing Itself. What Aspect of Divinity do you now wish to experience as you?"

"You mean I have a choice," ask the little soul.

I answered, "Yes." You may choose to experience any Aspect of Divinity in, as, and through you."

"Okay," said the little soul, then I choose forgiveness. I want to experience my Self as that Aspect of God called Complete Forgiveness."

Well, this created a little challenge, as you can imagine.

There was no one to forgive. All I have created is Perfection and Love

"No one to forgive?" asked the Little Soul, somewhat incredulously.

"No one," I repeated. "Look around you. Do you see any souls less perfect, less wonderful than you?"

As the Little soul twirled around, and was surprised to see himself surrounded by all the souls in heaven. They came from far and wide throughout the Kingdom, because they had heard the little soul was having an extraordinary conversation with God.

"I see none less perfect than I," the Little Soul exclaimed." Who then, shall I have to forgive?"

Just then another soul stepped forward from the crowd. "You may forgive me," said the Friendly Soul.

"For what?" the little soul asked.

"I will come onto your next physical lifetime and do something for you to forgive," replied the Friendly Soul.

"But what? What could you, a being of such Perfect Light, do to make me forgive you?" the Little Soul wanted to know.

"Oh," smiled the Friendly Soul, I'm sure we can think of
something."

"But why would you want to do this?" The Little Soul could not figure out why a being of such perfection would want to slow down its vibration so much that it could actually do something "bad."

"Simple," the Friendly Soul explained," I would do it because I love you. You want to experience your Self as Forgiving, don't you? Besides, you have done the same for me."

"I have?" asked the Little Soul.

"Of course. Don't you remember? We've been All Of It, you and I.

We've been the Up and the Down of it, and the Left and Right of it.

We've been the Here and Now of it, and the Now and Then of it.

We've been the Big and Small of it, the Male and Female of it, the Good and Bad of it. We've been the All of it.

"And we've done it by agreement, so that each of us might experience ourselves as The Grandest Part of God. For we have understood that.....

"In the absence of that which You Are Not, that Which You Are, is NOT.

"In the absence of 'cold,' you cannot be 'warm.' In the absence of 'sad,' you cannot be 'happy,' without a thing called 'evil,' the experience you call 'good' cannot exist.

If you choose to be a thing, something or someone opposite to that has to show up somewhere in your universe to make that possible."

The Friendly Soul then explained that those people are God's Special Angels, and these conditions God's Gifts.

"I ask only one thing in return, " the Friendly Soul declared.

"Anything! Anything," the Little Soul cried. He was excited now to know that he could experience every Divine Aspect of God. He understood, now The Plan.

"In the moment that I strike you and smite you," said the Friendly Soul, " in the moment that I do the worst to you that you could ever imagine---in that self-same moment....remember Who I Really Am."

"Oh, I won't forget!" promised the Little Soul. "I will see you in the perfection with which I hold you now, and I will remember Who You Are, always."

"What is this darkness, O' Holy One?" the little soul ask.

"That which you are not," I replied, and the soul understood.

So this the soul did, removing itself from the All, yea, going even onto another realm.

And in this realm the soul had the power to call onto its experience all sorts of darkness. And this it did.

Yet in the midst of all the darkness did it cry out:

"Father, Father, why hast Thou forsaken me?" Even as have you in your blackest times. Yet I have never forsaken you, but stand by you always, ready to remind you of Who You Really Are; ready, always ready, to call you home.

Therefore, be a light unto the darkness, and curse it not.

And forget not Who You Are in the moment of your encirclement by that which you are not. But do you praise to the creation, even as you seek to change it.

And know that what you do in the time of your greatest trial can be your greatest triumph. For the experience you create is a statement of Who You Are..... and Who You Want To Be...."-by-neale-donald-walsch

Link to the story in the book.

[Kill4Me]

Alex Malarkey, the co-author of The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven with his father, Kevin Malarkey, was in a car crash in 2004 that left him paralyzed. The memoir, published in 2010 as part of the popular “heavenly tourism genre,” detailed his accounts of talking to Jesus Christ and meeting with the devil. Since its publication, the book has sold more than one million copies, according to the Washington Post.

But on Tuesday, Pulpit and Pen published a letter from Alex Malarkey, entitled “An Open Letter to Lifeway and Other Sellers, Buyers, and Marketers of Heaven Tourism, by the Boy Who Did Not Come Back From Heaven.” Lifeway is a chain of religious book retailers.

“Please forgive the brevity, but because of my limitations I have to keep this short. I did not die. I did not go to Heaven,” Malarkey writes, calling, well, malarkey on himself. “I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention...

fuckin' duh

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/boy-...278459057.html

[Eliza Thomason]

fuckin' duh

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/boy-...278459057.html

The name "Malarkey" should have been a giveaway. A family that lives up to their name. (I saw that news story yesterday and thought that boy had a lot of cheek, giving people theological advice! He should have humbly apologized and that's ALL! Instead, he little "apology" is overwhelmed by his wordiness in telling people what to think! Lack of true humility is a sure "tell" in a spiritual fake.)