Kindred differences: IEI-INFp and ILI-INTp

[The Martrix]

Then you have much to learn.

Super ego being the "musts", "shoulds", "need to's", "tryings", and "struggles for", "why you do that/this/then?", "coping"

I see no discrepancy between an IEI with a super-ego composed of Te and the descriptions put forth by some members in this thread. Needing and desiring a routine are the hallmarks of Te polr. The SLE's Se outward movement, an attitude of "just make it happen" is a huge relief for her/his IEI dual, who can get over focused by their super-egos push for personal structure, which is in actuality a coping mechanism for being often absent-minded and overwhelmed by details or actions needed.

"just do it" is the perfect motto for IEI's. And if this isn't present in their lives, then perhaps a routine helps them stay motivated and/or responsible.

YES!
All IEIs are sponsored by Nike.
We all need a kick up the backside by our duals.

I would say it's more making fun of what people do than the actual person, because Fi. Otherwise I agree.

That doesn't make it less harsh, but it's a difference in beta/gamma perspective imo.

Te humour...
Humour of actions.

[MensSuperMateriam]

Interesting. Do you think this could also be a case of the difference between static and dynamic types?

More or less. But definitely IJ is the archetypal stable temperament, and they're Ji dominant. Fi doms use Te, but they will behave in the same way for Fi stuff, that is, instead "objective factual data" (Te), "subjective relational data" (Fi).

ESIs are the type who fits better in the "when I love you, I do with all my heart; when I hate you, I do the same". And when you make an offense, they will have big troubles for forgiving you (changing the nature of the subjetive relational state).

All things equal, and statistically.

[darya]

I see no discrepancy between an IEI with a super-ego composed of Te and the descriptions put forth by some members in this thread. Needing and desiring a routine are the hallmarks of Te polr. The SLE's Se outward movement, an attitude of "just make it happen" is a huge relief for her/his IEI dual, who can get over focused by their super-egos push for personal structure, which is in actuality a coping mechanism for being often absent-minded and overwhelmed by details or actions needed.

"just do it" is the perfect motto for IEI's. And if this isn't present in their lives, then perhaps a routine helps them stay motivated and/or responsible.

I'm a huge procrastinator and am in desperate need for somebody just kicking me in the ass and make me "just do it", so in that sense I need some sort of structure or specifically motivation. But I wouldn't really describe that as desiring routine. Routine stifles me big time. I much rather work on "projects" and somebody giving me a kick to finish what I started or go after something new which scares me, but I am not the person for everyday routined lifestyle, having the same job, my everyday always the same,... - routine represses me, doesn't calm me down., And I'm pretty sure SLE's are great at combining go getter attitute with unpredictability, so I can totally see them being my duals.

I utilize the Reinin dichotomies in this instance if it is not immediately obvious. The asking/declaring style is the easiest way. If you can get them to be candid and part of a conversation (tough) ILI's are very declarative, speak more dryly, and give an impression of seriousness. As stated above they also avoid groups in general. IEI's are much more soft in speech and although they can make firm points I never get the impression that they won't consider your point of view kindly. IEI's in my experience (even Ni subs) tend to lend an aura of caring outwards. I always get the impression they want to be part of something, while with ILI's I usually get the impression they want to be part of almost nothing.

I will say that on initial contact they can be harder to differentiate due to the fact that both are relatively kind, reasonable, and distant in first exchange. Any prolonged communication will quickly reveal their natures.

Exactly. After longer communication with them, especially in group settings, you cannot miss who's who, they have really different approaches to people and group atmosphere. They're similar only in the beginning.

[The Martrix]

I have one question before I relent to my superego demand of Si. (That is, to go to bed).

How do ILIs feel about domestic chores?

[darya]

I have one question before I relent to my superego demand of Si. (That is, to go to bed).

How do ILIs feel about domestic chores?

I would say that both IEI's and ILI's hate domestic chores with all their heart.

[blackburry]

Generally speaking, ILIs usually say the worst things in group settings. It's not even to try to be funny-- they are just so agonizingly honest at times that I cringe for them to shut up.


IEIs are pretty good at weaving their words and expressions even if they are insulting you on some level- they make it flowery and not seem so bad. and when they are angry...it's not intimidating at all. it's more like..."aw...mk. go away now."

ILIs seem like they would fuck yo world up.

[Beautiful sky]

Wrong thread...sorry

[darya]

IEIs are pretty good at weaving their words and expressions even if they are insulting you on some level- they make it flowery and not seem so bad. and when they are angry...it's not intimidating at all. it's more like..."aw...mk. go away now."
,.

RUDE Yes, ILI's are straightshooters, blunt and too honest. IEI's wrap their bitchyness into backhanded compliments, passive-agression, aloofnes (although ILI's are also very aloof IMO).

About intimidation ...I would not call either particularly intimidating if you put them next to a pissed off SLE or LSE. ILI's when angry seem more like pissed off sarcastic geeks, IEI's like pissed off drama queens, but IEI's also look like they are about to start crying at any time in the middle of yelling, so no, not particularly intimidating.

But I think both types get extremely nasty with words when pissed off. ILI's are quite tactless by default, but IEI's know how to hit exactly where it hurts.

[Aylen]

RUDE Yes, ILI's are straightshooters, blunt and too honest. IEI's wrap their bitchyness into backhanded compliments, passive-agression, aloofnes (although ILI's are also very aloof IMO).

About intimidation ...I would not call either particularly intimidating if you put them next to a pissed off SLE or LSE. ILI's when angry seem more like pissed off sarcastic geeks, IEI's like pissed off drama queens, but IEI's also look like they are about to start crying at any time in the middle of yelling, so no, not particularly intimidating.

But I think both types get extremely nasty with words when pissed off. ILI's are quite tactless by default, but IEI's know how to hit exactly where it hurts.

Yep, this just shows how different and alike we can all be. I am not above smackin' a hoe (not to be taken too literal) if my personal and psychological space is seriously invaded. I am not proud of that and usually I can control myself and walk away or just use my words. It takes a LOT to get me to that point but once I've shown that side of myself the person rarely wants a repeat performance.

I feel awful after and sometimes cry about it where no one will see me. I tend to choke down my tears in front of people. I have surrounded myself with SLE over the years though, so they rubbed off on me. Fuck, they have thrown me in the ring a few times to see how I would handle it. Sometimes I felt like they were riling me up just to see how tough I really was. They would never allow me to get hurt though so they step in if it gets too bad.

IRL I do tend to look up to them (males and females) and want to please them and I can tell they want to please me and enjoy some of my childlike (not childish) behavior, as well. I may place a couple of SLE I know slightly above me but I have earned my place of equality in their eyes. I am thankful the SLE around me now are just down to earth, chill and have fun people. Maybe I rub off on them too? Teenage beta years were the worst.

Edit: SLE just told me I look about as intimidating as a kitten. I had to ask!

Typical characteristics of the Aggressor romance style

• no doubts about own interest in another person
• not prone to hesitation about whether or not to reveal that interest
• focus is more on own interest than whether or not the other person might reciprocate
• romantic interaction is more about "toughness" than "tenderness"
• needs to feel some sense of "superiority" over the partner, but worthwhile only if the partner is seen as able to largely "keep up"
• this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy
• in the case of female Aggressors with male partners, the above tends to assume the characteristic of a woman expecting total devotion from the partner, rather than her being "bossy"
• little inclination to externally admit not having been the one to end a relationship, unless if adopting a "who cares" front simultaneously

[Pookie]

One is cold, and the other is hot and cold.

[Becca]

RUDE Yes, ILI's are straightshooters, blunt and too honest. IEI's wrap their bitchyness into backhanded compliments, passive-agression, aloofnes (although ILI's are also very aloof IMO).

About intimidation ...I would not call either particularly intimidating if you put them next to a pissed off SLE or LSE. ILI's when angry seem more like pissed off sarcastic geeks, IEI's like pissed off drama queens, but IEI's also look like they are about to start crying at any time in the middle of yelling, so no, not particularly intimidating.

But I think both types get extremely nasty with words when pissed off. ILI's are quite tactless by default, but IEI's know how to hit exactly where it hurts.

I agree, IEI's are passive aggressive and they cannot insult a person to their face. I had an IEI friend finally get the courage to write me a letter about how much "hurt" I caused her, but she then expressed how it was not my fault...I was just confused and felt bad. I hugged her and expressed how I never meant to do it, and she said "I know it's just me." Our differences made it hard to get along perfectly, and sometimes I just heard her saying in her head "I hate you...but I like you". Lol it was very confusing. She had a lot of issues, and my not giving her full attention affected her.
I do not understand IEI's brain, why is everything soo dramatic?

[The Martrix]

IEIs are pretty good at weaving their words and expressions even if they are insulting you on some level- they make it flowery and not seem so bad. and when they are angry...it's not intimidating at all. it's more like..."aw...mk. go away now."

ILIs seem like they would fuck yo world up.

RUDE Yes, ILI's are straightshooters, blunt and too honest. IEI's wrap their bitchyness into backhanded compliments, passive-agression, aloofnes (although ILI's are also very aloof IMO).

About intimidation ...I would not call either particularly intimidating if you put them next to a pissed off SLE or LSE. ILI's when angry seem more like pissed off sarcastic geeks, IEI's like pissed off drama queens, but IEI's also look like they are about to start crying at any time in the middle of yelling, so no, not particularly intimidating.

But I think both types get extremely nasty with words when pissed off. ILI's are quite tactless by default, but IEI's know how to hit exactly where it hurts.

Oh dear. Do all IEIs act like this? I must have mistyped. When I'm angry, I suppress all tears and channel all my energy into my voice.

[darya]

One is cold, and the other is hot and cold.

Yes! Or I would say ILI's go from cold to warm at best, and IEI's regularly go from hot to cold, push-pull.

I agree, IEI's are passive aggressive and they cannot insult a person to their face. I had an IEI friend finally get the courage to write me a letter about how much "hurt" I caused her, but she then expressed how it was not my fault...I was just confused and felt bad. I hugged her and expressed how I never meant to do it, and she said "I know it's just me." Our differences made it hard to get along perfectly, and sometimes I just heard her saying in her head "I hate you...but I like you". Lol it was very confusing. She had a lot of issues, and my not giving her full attention affected her.
I do not understand IEI's brain, why is everything soo dramatic?

Haha, a letter is very dramatic I personally am very capable of rational discussion, it's just that I feel a lot of conflicting feelings for people in a short period of time. For a friend it's like (in my mind): oooh, you're just the best, i could never ask for a best friend. Then they do somthing annoying: aaaaaargh, I hate you so much, stfu about your ex, nobody wants to hear about it any longer. And in that moment I feel the most unfounded, out of proportion hatred for this person. And a few minutes later when I calm down I feel the worst guilt: You're the most terrible friend, what a bitch, she was always nice to you and than it sometimes makes me cry And for the lovers it goes: O.M.G. I have never met anyone so amazing. I want to eat you!! And then the next day: Eeeeh, you kinda bore me. You know what, you're actually kinda annoying. And the circles continues.

Now that I've written it down, it sounds sicker than it really is, because I don't actually show this intense emotions outwards (only in extreme situations). It just shows through me being very hot-cold, friendly-reserved, I don't throw stuff in people's faces. But in my mind everything is very dramatic. But I only share it with my IEI friend, cause she's the same wacko and when we're pissed at something/someone we vent to each other like it's the end of the world.
But ILI's can be very moody and dramatic too, it's just a different sort of moody. They're a lot less affected by every little thing that someone said to them or if the emotional atmosphere wasn't exactly how they wanted it to be.

Oh dear. Do all IEIs act like this? I must have mistyped. When I'm angry, I suppress all tears and channel all my energy into my voice.

I think gender roles effect types a lot, so in my experience it's often hard to tell if a guy is a logical or ethical type at first. In my opinion you use waaay to many emoticons on this board for an ILI guy
I don't cry either, but I'm always on the verge of tears if I'm hardcore fighting with someone . And I usually cry afterwards, when alone.

I think communication styles are a really big indicator:
Passionate (ExE or xEE), Coldblooded (LxI or xLI), Business (LxE or xLE) or Sincere (ExI or xEI)
I go from Sincere (strangers, acquaintances) to passionate (friends, family). But at times I can be pretty damn cold too.
ILI's in my experience go more from coldblooded (default) to sincere.

[The Martrix]

I think gender roles effect types a lot, so in my experience it's often hard to tell if a guy is a logical or ethical type at first. In my opinion you use waaay to many emoticons on this board for an ILI guy
I don't cry either, but I'm always on the verge of tears if I'm hardcore fighting with someone . And I usually cry afterwards, when alone.

I think communication styles are a really big indicator:
Passionate (ExE or xEE), Coldblooded (LxI or xLI), Business (LxE or xLE) or Sincere (ExI or xEI)
I go from Sincere (strangers, acquaintances) to passionate (friends, family). But at times I can be pretty damn cold too.
ILI's in my experience go more from coldblooded (default) to sincere.

But emoticons are fun!
Oh yeah, the crying can wait till afterwards, if I'm really upset. But mostly I just shout.
Sincere to passionate is about right for me too.

[Skepsis]

.

[darya]

I do have a question regarding the differences. I find that when I'm being analytical I can be cold, but most people wouldn't describe me in that manner. People have told me that I don't look like I could hurt a fly and I have to convince them of how cruel I am to the flies in my home. I take no prisoners! When I get mad, people don't think that I am mad at all. Sometimes that frustrating because I feel they aren't taking me seriously. People assume I can only be in a good mood.

That is the trouble I have, and I don't know if you have the same trouble @The Martrix. The descriptions of ILI make them sound unapproachable, cold, and robotic, which I am not, and the descriptions of IEI make them sound incapable of excelling in problem solving and the sciences. What is a person to do if you are good with people, are endeavored with the arts and humanities, and love and excel in the technical/scientific field? Which one could pull that off?

I'm not sure if this will help, but I have found that I have difficulty with Fi dominants in real life. I often find that I offend them and don't know why, or if I do I can't believe it took so little to offend them. I'll try to make light of the situation, maybe try to cheer them up, but they often to appear moody to me in a way that is difficult to read. Sometimes it's like walking on egg shells. I've been called a jerk or asshole numerous times by them in person, and I feel bad as I did not intent to offend.

Many IEI's are good at scientific fields, like math and physics. If people when they look at you think that you can only be in a good mood and don't think you are mad when you are then I really don't think you are an ILI. ILI's that I know are quite grumpy and cynical, not exactly a ray of sunshine.

[The Martrix]

I do have a question regarding the differences. I find that when I'm being analytical I can be cold, but most people wouldn't describe me in that manner. People have told me that I don't look like I could hurt a fly and I have to convince them of how cruel I am to the flies in my home. I take no prisoners! When I get mad, people don't think that I am mad at all. Sometimes that frustrating because I feel they aren't taking me seriously. People assume I can only be in a good mood.

That is the trouble I have, and I don't know if you have the same trouble @The Martrix. The descriptions of ILI make them sound unapproachable, cold, and robotic, which I am not, and the descriptions of IEI make them sound incapable of excelling in problem solving and the sciences. What is a person to do if you are good with people, are endeavored with the arts and humanities, and love and excel in the technical/scientific field? Which one could pull that off?

I'm not sure if this will help, but I have found that I have difficulty with Fi dominants in real life. I often find that I offend them and don't know why, or if I do I can't believe it took so little to offend them. I'll try to make light of the situation, maybe try to cheer them up, but they often to appear moody to me in a way that is difficult to read. Sometimes it's like walking on egg shells. I've been called a jerk or asshole numerous times by them in person, and I feel bad as I did not intent to offend.

Oh, IEI, most certainly. You don't seem to be Fe-PoLR, to me. What would you say is your weakness?
I know all about walking on eggshells with my EII sister.

[Skepsis]

.

[silke]

No, I'm saying that this in particular is what Te-PolR looks like. There have been some equally insane INTps, like Ted Kaczynski for example. If you read Kaczynski's manifesto, though, he never talks about things that didn't happen. He has predictions (Ni), he hates the "liberal mindset" (a Fi category with a little -Se spice), but he never talks about things that haven't happened. Gorilla199, on the other hand, uses internal, deductive logic (Ti) to bolster his subjective visions.

Predictions ARE things that didn't happen that are only assumed to happen in the future. Anyone making predictions is claiming things that have not occurred in actual reality and that are only imagined.

If your interpretation of Te is "not talking about things that haven't happened" then you should look into works of ILIs such as Stanisław Lem or Boris Strugatski who wrote fiction i.e. told fantastical, non-factual stories for a living.

"Where would it be more appropriate, in their logic, to kill Jesus, than on top of a pyramid, underneath a flying saucer, with a horned disc on his head?"

There's an internal logic, but the question "Where is the empirical evidence?" isn't a concern.

I think Jim Jones was ENFj, and Bill 'O Reilly is probably ESTj. Not all "religious nuts" are Te-Polrs.

When he's asking the question "where would it be most logical to kill Jesus?" what he's examining is the logic of their actions, also known as Te. The guy in the video you posted sounds suspiciously IEE of ethical subtype. He does bring up a list of what he considers to be "observable evidence" for his video (the spaceship-like drawings, for instance). The problem is that he doesn't know what "usefulness quotient" should be assigned to this "data" he's presenting (which should be none whatsoever), which is telling of weak Te. This is what 'miscalibrated' Te looks like when it is stressed by weak Te types.

[The Martrix]

My greatest weakness in not paying attention when my mind wanders. I might not hear what people tell me, notice something in my environment that others do. I also don't take action when I probably should; I hesitate.

I can make things everyone deems to be common sense more complicated than it need to be. The thing is though, I think I'm a rather productive person, unlike what the descriptions of IEI make them sound. I can be practical when I focus on being practical. At my job, I am responsible for inventory and I have to work quickly and efficiently, so I can perform like that, but it is tiring after a while.

One of my worries is to be deemed impractical or useless and I have taught myself to do many practical things like change the oil on my car, repair appliances, and light home remodeling, mostly in an attempt to prove that I can do things other guys can do..The trouble is, when I do things like that people proclaim that I'm good at fixing things and then they want me to fix things for them, but I don't really want to do that, lol. Too much of that really is draining for me. Anyways, like an ILI, I don't want to bug people for help and would rather do it myself instead of having to call them and ask them. I feel people have their own things to do, as I do.

My stepdad was Se dominant and he pushed me really hard to get a job and keep it. I really respected that about him . I'm not sure if I would've done half as well in life if he didn't push me, even if it caused a lot of distress at the time. I would've rather I focused on my school work instead, but I wouldn't have made it through college without staying employed either. We have a mutual respect for one another even if we are completely different. He had quite the temper.

The other trouble I've had with IEI is I don't really try to improve the mood in any significant way, just with occasional silly jokes and avoiding negativity in general. It's subtle, but it is present. I just don't reek of Fe, I don't think I do. I'm kind of monotone, but if I get excited about something, I can become much more expressive, but not overdone or dramatic. I can be quite logical, like an LII, but maintain that level of Ti is also draining to me. LII was the other type I was considering.


Sorry for the extended response, I can really get going sometimes!

I think you're IEI-Ni. Fear of being seen as impractical is evidence enough of Te-PoLR. All IEIs can efficient when we put our minds to it, but it's very tiring and very stressful.

[The Martrix]

When he's asking the question "where would it be most logical to kill Jesus?" what he's examining is the logic of their actions, also known as Te. The guy in the video you posted sounds suspiciously IEE of ethical subtype. He does bring up a list of what he considers to be "observable evidence" for his video (the spaceship-like drawings, for instance). The problem is that he doesn't know what "usefulness quotient" should be assigned to this "data" he's presenting (which should be none whatsoever), which is telling of weak Te. This is what 'miscalibrated' Te looks like when it is stressed by weak Te types.

Exactly, and only a Te-valuing type would stress Te. I wouldn't base an argument of Te grounds.

[darya]

@Jimmers, I also think you're IEI. I think over-exaggerated type descriptions are throwing you of. I agree with Martrix, I think you have a Te-PoLR. And IEI's don't reek of Fe at all, especially not Ni subtypes. And we can be perfectly successful at work you know We're often very perfectionistic. And I apologize if I made ILI's sounds like cold robots, it's not like that at all. However, Fe-PoLR is still pretty evident you know

[Aylen]

My greatest weakness in not paying attention when my mind wanders. I might not hear what people tell me, notice something in my environment that others do. I also don't take action when I probably should; I hesitate.

I can make things everyone deems to be common sense more complicated than it need to be. The thing is though, I think I'm a rather productive person, unlike what the descriptions of IEI make them sound. I can be practical when I focus on being practical. At my job, I am responsible for inventory and I have to work quickly and efficiently, so I can perform like that, but it is tiring after a while.

One of my worries is to be deemed impractical or useless and I have taught myself to do many practical things like change the oil on my car, repair appliances, and light home remodeling, mostly in an attempt to prove that I can do things other guys can do..The trouble is, when I do things like that people proclaim that I'm good at fixing things and then they want me to fix things for them, but I don't really want to do that, lol. Too much of that really is draining for me. Anyways, like an ILI, I don't want to bug people for help and would rather do it myself instead of having to call them and ask them. I feel people have their own things to do, as I do.

My stepdad was Se dominant and he pushed me really hard to get a job and keep it. I really respected that about him . I'm not sure if I would've done half as well in life if he didn't push me, even if it caused a lot of distress at the time. I would've rather I focused on my school work instead, but I wouldn't have made it through college without staying employed either. We have a mutual respect for one another even if we are completely different. He had quite the temper.

The other trouble I've had with IEI is I don't really try to improve the mood in any significant way, just with occasional silly jokes and avoiding negativity in general. It's subtle, but it is present. I just don't reek of Fe, I don't think I do. I'm kind of monotone, but if I get excited about something, I can become much more expressive, but not overdone or dramatic. I can be quite logical, like an LII, but maintain that level of Ti is also draining to me. LII was the other type I was considering.


Sorry for the extended response, I can really get going sometimes!

I hate to go against my IEI team here but you sound just like an ILI ex of mine. I sux at typing so no worries, just had to say it. Plus I am feeling particularly apathetic today.

Edit: my exes dad was probably SLE, my dual since I was the only one who really put up with his controlling nature. I could always calm him down. Then my ex would tell me to deal with his dad. Not an easy thing to do.

Edit: Damn, there might be something to socionics after all and if you hadn't written this post I may never have put together that my exes dad always liked me more than any other girl my ex brought home due to the concept of duality and his dad was really picky and suspicious of all women. Thank you.

Edit3: His parents were conflictors for 20+ years. *dies*

[Aylen]

Oh, IEI, most certainly. You don't seem to be Fe-PoLR, to me. What would you say is your weakness?
I know all about walking on eggshells with my EII sister.

I feel your pain. 1000 miles is a comfortable distance between my EII sister and me. Did I mention I adore her... yeah, I did.

[Ainfigur]

IEI's are peaches, ILI's are coconuts.

[MensSuperMateriam]

Exactly, and only a Te-valuing type would stress Te. I wouldn't base an argument of Te grounds.

That's not correct. I also woudn't base my conclusions in the particular type I could be because, you know, mistypings are possible. Even is your type is correct, one person does not make the general case, rule.

PoLR is not a blind spot, but a sore spot. The closest thing to the former would probably be DS function. PoLR is a conscious function. The user is well aware about the existence of that particular field of reality, but has very little idea about how to deal with it. All or nothing is a common response to this problem; whenever it can be ignored, it will be ignored, but still being conscious it exists. And when there's no alternative, it will be faced. And in this moment, as the user has no fucking clue -by default- about how to use it or how much to use it, weird things will happen.

For example, Se PoLRs. LIIs and EIIs. Who are not known for being forceful or dominant. But when force has to been applied, they do not measure it well. Robespierre -> Let's behead every enemy of the Revolution, even such useful guy for society as Lavoisier. Thomas More, who do not hesitated in burning protestants, despite being an humanist. Or Teresa of Calcutta, a total religious fanatic.

Not being able to measure the usefulness of those facts taken as such fits much better in Te-PoLR than Te-HA. Archetype IEE is Huxley. Darwin's Bulldog he was called. Many IEEs have scientific tendencies and performs reasonably well in such fields. And similarly, SEEs are not known for being too bad with Te, with things like the wacky ideas of the guy in that video. Many SEEs do quite well in the business field, which requires being able to separate facts from desires, so to speak.

By the way, the guy in the video seems to me closer to IP than EP but that's my opinion, of course.

[Aylen]

IEI's are peaches, ILI's are coconuts.

Nice analogy.

[Persephone]

I'd say ILIs are crispy chocolate, IEIs are crispy chocolate with creamy filling. Peaches are too easy to squeeze...

[Aylen]

I'd say ILIs are crispy chocolate, IEIs are crispy chocolate with creamy filling. Peaches are too easy to squeeze...

I prefer firm, but sweet peaches. I will end it there since the other word I might use could sound gross if taken the wrong way. At least in my mind it does. hahah

[Persephone]

I prefer firm, but sweet peaches. I will end it there since the other word I might use could sound gross if taken the wrong way. At least in my mind it does. hahah

I exactly see what you mean
Besides I do not like chocolate, but I like the analogy

[The Martrix]

I'd say ILIs are crispy chocolate, IEIs are crispy chocolate with creamy filling. Peaches are too easy to squeeze...

Are yo saying that ILIs are like IEIs, but without the soft centre? Socionics would have us believe that IEIs are soft the whole way through.

[Persephone]

Are yo saying that ILIs are like IEIs, but without the soft centre? Socionics would have us believe that IEIs are soft the whole way through.

I think that both can be extremely aloof but IEI can jump in a second from an iceberg to a volcano. ILIs need times for it.
And f*** socionics!

[strrrng]

ILIs can naturally engage in conflict, with a kind of offhand hostility or halfway controlled nonchalance, it can be endearing at times. IEIs are slightly more conflict-avoidant but also better able to manage it and their affect if it does arise. Also, IEIs are more conventionally aloof, meaning you're more likely to notice it as an emotional phenomenon, whereas with ILIs it's a bit more in the background... B/c of their unawareness they can sometimes be more talkative than IEIs, with the latter you typically get the sense that whatever level of involvement they demonstrate is ingenuous, or at least a bit more deliberately directed, ILIs can seem more misguided in this sense.

In relationships they can both be conflict-prone but ILIs don't really feed on it like IEIs, who need a certain amount despite having the basic Fe-IP tendency to emotively keel things; they're a bit more blunt and stark, IEIs will more often set to the task of (sometimes passively) managing it to arrive at the optimal output.

Overall ILIs can't be bothered, whereas IEIs are a bit more invested. I've always found ILIs to be suitable interlocutors, in a way they operate at a closer psychological distance than SEIs, though with the latter things are always relatively comfortable.

[The Martrix]

I think that both can be extremely aloof but IEI can jump in a second from an iceberg to a volcano. ILIs need times for it.
And f*** socionics!

And f*** it all!
My vacuum cleaner just died...

[The Martrix]

ILIs can naturally engage in conflict, with a kind of offhand hostility or halfway controlled nonchalance, it can be endearing at times. IEIs are slightly more conflict-avoidant but also better able to manage it and their affect if it does arise. Also, IEIs are more conventionally aloof, meaning you're more likely to notice it as an emotional phenomenon, whereas with ILIs it's a bit more in then background... B/c of their unawareness they can sometimes be more talkative than IEIs, with the latter you typically get the sense that whatever level of involvement they demonstrate is ingenuous, or at least a bit more deliberately directed, ILIs can seem more misguided in this sense.

In relationships they can both be conflict-prone but ILIs don't really feed on it like IEIs, who need a certain amount despite having the basic Fe-IP tendency to emotively keel things; they're a bit more blunt and stark, IEIs will more often set to the task of (sometimes passively) managing it to arrive at the optimal output.

Overall ILIs can't be bothered, whereas IEIs are a bit more invested. I've always found ILIs to be suitable interlocutors, in a way they operate at a closer psychological distance than SEIs, though with the latter things are always relatively comfortable.

Great post, @strrrng!
I think you're right. ILIs can be blunt because it's their natural way, whereas if an IEIs is being blunt, it's probably for effect.
By emotional phenomenon, do you mean aloofness related to mood and attitude towards the other?

[Aylen]

And f*** it all!
My vacuum cleaner just died...

I have been saying that all day. My mood has been a bit on the meh side, yet someone bought me lunch, I won a $10 scratch off, a free soda and big mac (which I don't eat) on two different items on the free lunch and all because I am a robotic zombie today. Guess luck cares not about my mood.

I hope I make the homeless guy who hangs at 7-11 happy with my luck. I have to go refuel my car so I will just hand it all to him. He is always nice to me. I send your vacuum healing energy.

[strrrng]

Great post, @strrrng!
I think you're right. ILIs can be blunt because it's their natural way, whereas if an IEIs is being blunt, it's probably for effect.
By emotional phenomenon, do you mean aloofness related to mood and attitude towards the other?

Yeah, it's something that will always appear to have some emotive relevance. If ILIs are spaced, IEIs 'space out.'

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

In the case of ILIs, they will be more inclined to exhibit harsh judgement on people's character than an IEI who would tend to judge a person based on internally held laws and ideologies.

This seems to be true, though it kinda sounds like all ILIs are assholes and all IEIs are too subjective/personal in their criticisms of others... Gammas like to masturbate to that 'ooh he's right even though he's being meaaaan' stuff tho.

[Suz]

This isn't just something I pulled out of my ass.

OMG, my boss says this phrase verbatim. She said it to me once when I asked a question about something she was telling me. I was so confused as to why she would answer my question with that.

[Suz]

That's not correct. I also woudn't base my conclusions in the particular type I could be because, you know, mistypings are possible. Even is your type is correct, one person does not make the general case, rule.

PoLR is not a blind spot, but a sore spot. The closest thing to the former would probably be DS function. PoLR is a conscious function. The user is well aware about the existence of that particular field of reality, but has very little idea about how to deal with it. All or nothing is a common response to this problem; whenever it can be ignored, it will be ignored, but still being conscious it exists. And when there's no alternative, it will be faced. And in this moment, as the user has no fucking clue -by default- about how to use it or how much to use it, weird things will happen.

For example, Se PoLRs. LIIs and EIIs. Who are not known for being forceful or dominant. But when force has to been applied, they do not measure it well. Robespierre -> Let's behead every enemy of the Revolution, even such useful guy for society as Lavoisier. Thomas More, who do not hesitated in burning protestants, despite being an humanist. Or Teresa of Calcutta, a total religious fanatic.

Not being able to measure the usefulness of those facts taken as such fits much better in Te-PoLR than Te-HA. Archetype IEE is Huxley. Darwin's Bulldog he was called. Many IEEs have scientific tendencies and performs reasonably well in such fields. And similarly, SEEs are not known for being too bad with Te, with things like the wacky ideas of the guy in that video. Many SEEs do quite well in the business field, which requires being able to separate facts from desires, so to speak.

By the way, the guy in the video seems to me closer to IP than EP but that's my opinion, of course.

wow amazing post... thanks so much for it!