SLIs-ISTps who are socially conscious

[meatburger]

This thread is already doomed because i wrote a really awesome post but it deleted and i lost all the stuff that i wrote. What subtype are these ISTp's? They seem to care about social faux pas being broken. For example a girl who the ISTp invited, tried to change the venue of my party and he had a word to her. He does this kind of thing often and i get on with him great. Knowing duality i am not really his dual because things aren't that easy.

I am so very drunk my legs feel like they are on fire and swimming at the same time.

[Wynch]

This thread is already doomed because i wrote a really awesome post but it deleted and i lost all the stuff that i wrote. What subtype are these ISTp's? They seem to care about social pho-pas being broken. For example a girl who the ISTp invited, tried to change the venue of my party and he had a word to her. He does this kind of thing often and i get on with him great. Knowing duality i am not really his dual because things aren't that easy.

I am so very drunk my legs feel like they are on fire and swimming at the same time.

Faux pas. Sorry, I compulsively felt I had to fix it.

Have you known this ISTp for a long time?

[Mattie]

The "socialness" of an SiTe, or any type for that matter, is situational really, most likely has to do with the environmental influences they've had throughout their life. I know one SiTe who's pretty much a shut in unless he's at work. And when you get him out to a social situation, he's just a lump for the most part. Then the most recent SiTe I've encountered is sociable when out and about, he'll tell stories, strike conversations, tag along on adventures or to bars. I think he used to go to bars and clubs whenever. It doesn't really have to do with subtype, or at least, not the Gulenko (or whomever) subtypes.

[meatburger]

Yeah i have known him for quite some time. I just seem to be really compatible with this guy. I can think of a lot of other examples where he does this but my head cannot remember them right now lol.

The "socialness" of an SiTe, or any type for that matter, is situational really, most likely has to do with the environmental influences they've had throughout their life. I know one SiTe who's pretty much a shut in unless he's at work. And when you get him out to a social situation, he's just a lump for the most part. Then the most recent SiTe I've encountered is sociable when out and about, he'll tell stories, strike conversations, tag along on adventures or to bars. I think he used to go to bars and clubs whenever. It doesn't really have to do with subtype, or at least, not the Gulenko (or whomever) subtypes.

I could make an argument that this is all subtypes are. The product of the social influence on a person. For example my parents are Ne polr Se types and its possible this is why i became the Fi subtype. I avoided the polrs and was not reinforced for them and adopted more Se. Still, i think its equally plausible that the structures of the brain determine the subtypes.

[Mattie]

I could make an argument that this is all subtypes are. The product of the social influence on a person. For example my parents are Ne polr Se types and its possible this is why i became the Fi subtype. I avoided the polrs and was not reinforced for them and adopted more Se. Still, i think its equally plausible that the structures of the brain determine the subtypes.

We were just talking about this in another thread, and I think you're right. It might not be as obvious as from a certain source or two, but also your reaction to these sources to it's not so 1+1=2. I don't think that Gulenko's subtypes are correct, and that we either have no subtypes or a lot more subtypes.

[meatburger]

I don't think that Gulenko's subtypes are correct, and that we either have no subtypes or a lot more subtypes.

Im actually not a big fan of the subtype idea i never was. Im suprised i even mentioned it but i was very drunk . Still, it is amazing the huge differences that seem to exist between people of the same type.

[Mattie]

Still, it is amazing the huge differences that seem to exist between people of the same type.

This is because we're people, right? We all came into this knowing that there aren't 16 types of people. We're all different and somehow get divided into 16 groups by Socionics. The two ways of thinking I see after that are: 1. There are further correlations of the people within these 16 groups, therefore they can be grouped within their groups. 2. "Environmental Influences" (the Nurture in Nature vs Nurture) make those within the 16 groups different from one another, which keeps them human and not 16 robot personalities.

If the first way is true, I don't think these subtypes (NeFi-Ne; NeFi-Fi) are the right correlation. There has to be a lot more subtypes to account for all of the types of influences that can happen to you. I would say at least enough subtypes per function perhaps. I haven't thought it through too much yet. If the second statement is true, we should just be satisfied with the 16 types (it's the name of the forum anyway ) and learn about the different ways the base type can manifest for those people who don't give away their type very easily.

[meatburger]

This is because we're people, right? We all came into this knowing that there aren't 16 types of people. We're all different and somehow get divided into 16 groups by Socionics. The two ways of thinking I see after that are: 1. There are further correlations of the people within these 16 groups, therefore they can be grouped within their groups. 2. "Environmental Influences" (the Nurture in Nature vs Nurture) make those within the 16 groups different from one another, which keeps them human and not 16 robot personalities.

If the first way is true, I don't think these subtypes (NeFi-Ne; NeFi-Fi) are the right correlation. There has to be a lot more subtypes to account for all of the types of influences that can happen to you. I would say at least enough subtypes per function perhaps. I haven't thought it through too much yet. If the second statement is true, we should just be satisfied with the 16 types (it's the name of the forum anyway ) and learn about the different ways the base type can manifest for those people who don't give away their type very easily.

Yep, as usual being my identical i agree with everything you said :wink:

Last night this guy told me that a girl was no longer comming to my get together. I asked him if it was because of him telling her it was rude for her to try to change the venue of my event. He said no they had another small tiff. He introduced her to one of his friends and his girlfriend for about 2 minutes one night. Then the next day he noticed that she had added them both on facebook. This girl (i think shes ESFp), does this all the time and he calls it coupon collecting. One friend get one free. She kind of did this to me aswell, like she invited herself along to my party and said how much she misses me when i dont even know her lol.

So theres another example of how this ISTp seems to be interested in social rules.

[Mattie]

So theres another example of how this ISTp seems to be interested in social rules.

I SiTe I cited earlier has a strange way of socialization. Or, actually, it might make a lot of sense because of his type. But he gladly is pulled around doing things for people he is "forced" to interact with, as in, those he has classes with, works with, live with, or puts themselves in his path often enough. He's someone who would go out of his way to help someone even though he has a bunch of his own responsibilities. I think he'd be a lot more social if it wasn't for his memory. I'm not sure if this is type related or not, but he's very forgetful, especially when it comes to communication. He'll forget to call, forgot he wanted to call, etc. He'll call just to talk sometimes, or to ramble. When he can't get into contact with someone, he gets concerned (I guess if someone doesn't pick up the phone in surprise that the SiTe actually called, there must be something wrong ) and tries often, and it seems to really bug him.

Recently I've stopped trying to get into contact with him because it was just too hard to. Ever since school ended, it's been more of a chore in up-keeping with him. Before he graduated, I was designated coffee buddy, or I kept him company while he worked on some projects and needed to get out of a rut. But now there seems to be no "reason" to communicate with me other than to hang out, and who knows what goes through an SiTe's head once you're at that stage

[iAnnAu]

This is because we're people, right? We all came into this knowing that there aren't 16 types of people. We're all different and somehow get divided into 16 groups by Socionics. The two ways of thinking I see after that are: 1. There are further correlations of the people within these 16 groups, therefore they can be grouped within their groups. 2. "Environmental Influences" (the Nurture in Nature vs Nurture) make those within the 16 groups different from one another, which keeps them human and not 16 robot personalities.

If the first way is true, I don't think these subtypes (NeFi-Ne; NeFi-Fi) are the right correlation. There has to be a lot more subtypes to account for all of the types of influences that can happen to you. I would say at least enough subtypes per function perhaps. I haven't thought it through too much yet. If the second statement is true, we should just be satisfied with the 16 types (it's the name of the forum anyway ) and learn about the different ways the base type can manifest for those people who don't give away their type very easily.

I believe your point 2 above. Point 1 could still be valid, but I don't care as much, maybe because, as you say in your second paragraph, the ones we already got don't seem like the best correlates.

I think my biggest stumbling block in putting socionics into more active practice in my life is not knowing how to interpret people's behavior, speech, beliefs, etc. in terms of what applies to their type and what has come about via the aggregate of their experiences. (ugh - that seemed like too many words to get my point across: yes, I get caught up on "Nature v/s Nurture," assuming socionics to be near 100% nature.) I think that's one reason why I only feel reasonably confident in analyzing old relationships, where I can look back over a collection of interactions and try to see the patterns.

As to the OP, while I am fully capable of enjoying social gatherings, I'm fucking abysmal at initiating anything social. Every person I've befriended either introduced him/herself to me first, or else was introduced to me by someone else. And even once I know and like a person, I almost never call people to start something. If we've made plans, even tentative, I take those pretty seriously, and will follow up, so I'm not averse to making calls, etc. But when it comes to *initiating,* it's just one of those things on which my brain chooses to not dwell.

I feel quite lucky in how well my SO (LSE) helps me with this, which brings up a great example. Last weekend, an old friend of mine got married. His best man was one of my best friends, and there was another friend mutual to all of us attending. During the reception, we noticed that the food was really just snacky stuff, so my SO suggested that we ask the others to go to dinner together (minus the bride & groom, of course). I thought it was a great idea, but I had the damndest time thinking how to suggest it. I even feel sheepish typing that, because, duh, you just come out and say it, but after watching me squirm for a while, my SO finally brought it up to the group. Everyone happily agreed, and we had ourselves a fine time yukking it up at an Indian restaurant all of us love. Driving home, I thanked him for the suggestion and the help following through, and he pointed out that they're MY friends; he likes them & vice versa, but they've only met a few times. "I know, I know," is all I could say.

[Mattie]

"I know, I know," is all I could say.

Something tells me this an integral part of SiTe vernacular All the SiTe I've encounter always respond to my complaints about their communication with "I know, I know..." but never really seem to change. I keep going back and forth on why this is. It might be an immature thing, and maybe partly male thing, but all the SiTe I have encountered just can't seem to pick up the phone or call back reliably, and a lot of times they forget or plan over commitments. And they all will eventually call back with an apology and that there's no real excuse for their behavior... But then will do the same thing the next week If I wasn't persistent when I see relationship potential, I would have given up on the first flake. But when I actually get a hold of them, all attention is on me, they want me around, tell me how much they love my company... And disappear for a couple of weeks So confusing.

But somewhat in defense of the SiTe, I know what I'm demanding is most likely within the realm of their weaknesses. The bad thing is that they (and other types, I'm guessing at least the rest of the IP temperament) are forced to use what they are weak in because that's just how society/relationships work. So I guess it's not really fair to them, in that sense... Which is why I'm easily forgiving if I see the effort. Actually, I'm easily forgiving overall, the moment I see an SiTe calling, they are forgiven, because they are charming in their own way. I also notice that all SiTe like to make notice that I'm a "social butterfly," it's typically the first commentary I get other than being attractive () and so I wonder if there's a pressure to be social on the SiTe's part because of how NeFi easily manage their social life?

Sorry, rambled

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Yep, as usual being my identical i agree with everything you said :wink:

Last night this guy told me that a girl was no longer comming to my get together. I asked him if it was because of him telling her it was rude for her to try to change the venue of my event. He said no they had another small tiff. He introduced her to one of his friends and his girlfriend for about 2 minutes one night. Then the next day he noticed that she had added them both on facebook. This girl (i think shes ESFp), does this all the time and he calls it coupon collecting. One friend get one free. She kind of did this to me aswell, like she invited herself along to my party and said how much she misses me when i dont even know her lol.

So theres another example of how this ISTp seems to be interested in social rules.

Hi Meat. I haven't read through all this thread, sorry, but i've read this post. Oh, I couldn't quite work out what you were meaning with your first post, lol.

fwiw, social rules are quite important to me. I don't like rude, thoughtless, ill mannered, insensitive people. I've found myself with some ENFp's commenting on other peoples behaviours in this regards, as in we both seem to see the same thing and disagree with it.

I think that it's some sort of attempt to downplay Fe, as a lot of behaviour which isn't sort of socially acceptable is perhaps a way to provoke or bring out emotions ... or maybe not.

It concerns me, and I don't recall meeting an ISTp who didn't at least prefer to interact with people in a polite and/or pleasant manner. Anyway this might not even be related to what you're talking about, but maybe it is. But..that's my post and i'm sticking to it, now, for now, sort of nowish, yeah kinda now...etc..etc..lol..

[tiny_dancer]

Something tells me this an integral part of SiTe vernacular All the SiTe I've encounter always respond to my complaints about their communication with "I know, I know..." but never really seem to change. I keep going back and forth on why this is. It might be an immature thing, and maybe partly male thing, but all the SiTe I have encountered just can't seem to pick up the phone or call back reliably, and a lot of times they forget or plan over commitments. And they all will eventually call back with an apology and that there's no real excuse for their behavior... But then will do the same thing the next week If I wasn't persistent when I see relationship potential, I would have given up on the first flake. But when I actually get a hold of them, all attention is on me, they want me around, tell me how much they love my company... And disappear for a couple of weeks So confusing.

But somewhat in defense of the SiTe, I know what I'm demanding is most likely within the realm of their weaknesses. The bad thing is that they (and other types, I'm guessing at least the rest of the IP temperament) are forced to use what they are weak in because that's just how society/relationships work. So I guess it's not really fair to them, in that sense... Which is why I'm easily forgiving if I see the effort. Actually, I'm easily forgiving overall, the moment I see an SiTe calling, they are forgiven, because they are charming in their own way. I also notice that all SiTe like to make notice that I'm a "social butterfly," it's typically the first commentary I get other than being attractive () and so I wonder if there's a pressure to be social on the SiTe's part because of how NeFi easily manage their social life?

Yes. The on-off thing is why duality feels very push-pull to me. I know it's supposed to feel very "comfortable," and it certainly is while they're around... but they're never around. I don't know. Every time I try to get to know one of them, I wonder whether I'm really just chasing someone who doesn't respect me enough to reciprocate. It just feels lonely.

[jessica129]

Something tells me this an integral part of SiTe vernacular All the SiTe I've encounter always respond to my complaints about their communication with "I know, I know..." but never really seem to change. I keep going back and forth on why this is. It might be an immature thing, and maybe partly male thing, but all the SiTe I have encountered just can't seem to pick up the phone or call back reliably, and a lot of times they forget or plan over commitments. And they all will eventually call back with an apology and that there's no real excuse for their behavior... But then will do the same thing the next week If I wasn't persistent when I see relationship potential, I would have given up on the first flake. But when I actually get a hold of them, all attention is on me, they want me around, tell me how much they love my company... And disappear for a couple of weeks So confusing.

This sounds familiar

Most of the time I don't even realize I'm doing this until someone brings it up or just stops talking to me for it. Connecting and being social has never really ever been on my list of priorities. I don't realize how seriously some people take relationships and social interaction..it's foreign to me. I really don't need anyone and sometimes that pisses people off. Like they can't even go run an errand alone. I think I've always been too independent for most. Most of the time I don't even think to call someone up as I'd just as soon do it myself and I think that can rub some people the wrong way. Some get offended when you don't invite them to tag along for the most mundane activities. This isn't to say I don't enjoy other's company...it's just my prefered method of operation. Phones?

[Lobo]

Something tells me this an integral part of SiTe vernacular All the SiTe I've encounter always respond to my complaints about their communication with "I know, I know..." but never really seem to change. I keep going back and forth on why this is. It might be an immature thing, and maybe partly male thing, but all the SiTe I have encountered just can't seem to pick up the phone or call back reliably, and a lot of times they forget or plan over commitments. And they all will eventually call back with an apology and that there's no real excuse for their behavior... But then will do the same thing the next week If I wasn't persistent when I see relationship potential, I would have given up on the first flake. But when I actually get a hold of them, all attention is on me, they want me around, tell me how much they love my company... And disappear for a couple of weeks So confusing.

But somewhat in defense of the SiTe, I know what I'm demanding is most likely within the realm of their weaknesses. The bad thing is that they (and other types, I'm guessing at least the rest of the IP temperament) are forced to use what they are weak in because that's just how society/relationships work. So I guess it's not really fair to them, in that sense... Which is why I'm easily forgiving if I see the effort. Actually, I'm easily forgiving overall, the moment I see an SiTe calling, they are forgiven, because they are charming in their own way. I also notice that all SiTe like to make notice that I'm a "social butterfly," it's typically the first commentary I get other than being attractive () and so I wonder if there's a pressure to be social on the SiTe's part because of how NeFi easily manage their social life?

Sorry, rambled

Nicely put.

This sounds familiar

Most of the time I don't even realize I'm doing this until someone brings it up or just stops talking to me for it. Connecting and being social has never really ever been on my list of priorities. I don't realize how seriously some people take relationships and social interaction..it's foreign to me. I really don't need anyone and sometimes that pisses people off. Like they can't even go run an errand alone. I think I've always been too independent for most. Most of the time I don't even think to call someone up as I'd just as soon do it myself and I think that can rub some people the wrong way. Some get offended when you don't invite them to tag along for the most mundane activities. This isn't to say I don't enjoy other's company...it's just my prefered method of operation. Phones?

I think this is the key issue... Delta NFs are passionate about relationships, and in general take it very seriously. I'm not too concerned about making such a generalization, but anybody is open to disagree with me on this. With you guys it's like you get a very deep and sincere expression of Delta NF feelings and you just go "that's cool..." :/. Actually that's pretty funny outside of a more serious situation , but yeah, it's like being poured with a bucket of cold water.

[tiny_dancer]

With you guys it's like you get a very deep and sincere expression of Delta NF feelings and you just go "that's cool..." :/. Actually that's pretty funny outside of a more serious situation , but yeah, it's like being poured with a bucket of cold water.

lol yes.

[Cyrano]

This sounds familiar

Most of the time I don't even realize I'm doing this until someone brings it up or just stops talking to me for it. Connecting and being social has never really ever been on my list of priorities. I don't realize how seriously some people take relationships and social interaction..it's foreign to me. I really don't need anyone and sometimes that pisses people off. Like they can't even go run an errand alone. I think I've always been too independent for most. Most of the time I don't even think to call someone up as I'd just as soon do it myself and I think that can rub some people the wrong way. Some get offended when you don't invite them to tag along for the most mundane activities. This isn't to say I don't enjoy other's company...it's just my prefered method of operation. Phones?

Amazing how well you captured us. I think it's a time thing. We live so much in the moment that we just don't plan ahead enough to arrange group activities. By the time I could even think to call round to find a posse, I'm already back home. It's not that I'm in a hurry, I just don't see more than a few hours ahead. Most friends would probably decline a short notice invite anyway. You can see why ISTP's have no problem joining YOUR (other 15 types) plans, but rarely initiate our own. BTW. I don't even own a cell phone. Too much commitment.

[Wrong Way Ticket]

Most friends would probably decline a short notice invite anyway.

Which I think is another facet of why SLI/IEE can work. Because we love short notice plans.



...But, we don't like longer notice plans that don't happen. Without getting word of this until the last minute.

So um, yeah. =/

[Cyrano]

Which I think is another facet of why SLI/IEE can work. Because we love short notice plans.



...But, we don't like longer notice plans that don't happen. Without getting word of this until the last minute.

So um, yeah. =/

Great. Meet you for a beer in ten minutes.

[xyz]

Great. Meet you for a beer in ten minutes.

Can I join?

[Cyrano]

Can I join?

Of course. I'm buyin'

Need some ENFP's

[Banana Pancakes]

I believe it's faux pas

edit: of course vero beat me.

[xyz]

Of course. I'm buyin'

Need some ENFP's

Sweet.

[Mattie]

Of course. I'm buyin'

Need some ENFP's

I'll come! This needs to happen more often!

[xyz]

Ohio, California, and Florida...

What an odd mix.

[Wrong Way Ticket]

Ohio, California, and Florida...

What an odd mix.

Australia

[Cyrano]

I'll come! This needs to happen more often!

You are welcome to join us if you can escape the boys in the coffee shop.

Hey! I'm an ISTP and I just threw a party! Who says we're anti-social.

[Cyrano]

You're welcome to stay at my summer house. Bring beer.

Yes, We shall all meet at ollobollo's summer house. We will bring cheap American beers, and the 16 Types ladies shall entertain us. We will discuss SLI philosophy (such as it is), and what happens after that shall remain our little secret.

[Mattie]

I dunno anymore, I'm upset with SiTe at the moment

[meatburger]

I like how this thread began with such a crummy post and it has flourished into something truly beautiful.

I dunno anymore, I'm upset with SiTe at the moment

Jeepers what is wrong with this stupid world. Come to Australia, city called Adelaide and i will book you in for a date with the social istp himself. He is 6'1, has a good job as a manager. You will fall for him as he is awesome and if i tell him to go out on dates with you he will.

[Mattie]

Jeepers what is wrong with this stupid world. Come to Australia, city called Adelaide and i will book you in for a date with the social istp himself. He is 6'1, has a good job as a manager. You will fall for him as he is awesome and if i tell him to go out on dates with you he will.

I wish I knew more NeFi who could matchmake SiTe here lol The thought does count though