INFjs handling conflicts and forgiveness

[Megan]

While I am at it
To Icepick (love your posts too),
I think you really believe that INFJs cut people off as a means of emotionally manipulating them. I would like to assure you that it is not, it is more a sort of self-protection. If I cut someone off -which you are quite right we do sometimes, it is usually as a result of observing certain kinds of behaviour in him/her over quite sometime then deciding that this might be the best way to deal with the situation. I am sometimes overtly assertive and discuss the issue that is upsetting me with others depending on the issue and the person but then other times I make the judgement based on certain factors that a confrontation is probably un-necessary and counter productive, I am both flexible and self controlled like that. I find editing out certain people where possible to be extremely effective at getting them out of my life temporarily or permanently- again for my own good and quite possibly theirs as well. I am reasonably sure that some people will be bullshiters now and always. I am not very good at dealing with bullshit from people and I will eventually rid myself from it and them one way or another.[/b]

[IcEPiCk]

We give the BEST gifts because we are the best observers... Simply put!

when I read the genuine ISTP posters thoughts it is eerily similar to the things he thinks and says only he has no real interest in posting here yet.

He doesnt see interest in socionics... It hasnt struck a cord with him..

As for INFJs cutting people off... They just avoid conflict and often seem like they have something better to do... Sometimes they cut themselves off...

My Mom is an INFJ. You are the most caring and loving people... However your emotions seem to dictate all your actions...

ENFPs seem to be more driven by something else I cant put my thumb on...

[Megan]

Icepick I cannot identify with your mother. I feel a lot of things all the time but my actions are usually dictated by my values and not so much my feelings/emotions. If my actions were to be decided by how I feel I do not think I would have been in the relationship I am in for so long. I think to successfully interact with all "S" types including my ISTP partner takes patience and effort for me and I do not always feel like practicing this patience but do so because of the values I have carefully chosen for myself. I pay great attention to my feelings but see them a bit like servants, it is no good to have them stifled and suffocated but it is also no good to allow them to take full control of the house either.

Again, I feel my approach to conflict resolution is flexible, it is not solely about avoidance or engagement.

[IcEPiCk]

well you should be posting more of this stuff on the INFJ thread which is lacking the plentiful posts...

never the less Megan... INFJs have the tendency to shove stuff under the carpet.... avoidance..

As an ISTP may find expressing feeling awkward/worst case have a panicking feeling

An INFJ will feel a panicking/awkward feeling when in a conflict, and avoid it... Hence they would rather forgive or shun depending on the situation than try to resolve it...

I have experienced this after coming into a negative interaction with an INFJ friend of mine.

[Megan]

I hardly forgive easily and the right type of conflict is almost a turn on. Some INFJs like competition more than you can imagine, some of the people over at ENTP.org have figured this out. Shunning is a technique that I find quite effective depending on the conflict. Somewhere near the middle of most conflicts I get really bored not panicky. I like arguing with some people particular those who can stick to the issue at hand and not become repetitive or personally abusive. However, I do not allow myself to become aroused by every trivial situation. Icepick, tell me how many INFJs do you know? And what size true and representative sample of this type to you think you would need to come the conclusions you have reached here?

The intent was not to hijack and deviate from the main point of this thread. I may one day post in the INFJ thread, it is indeed rather lacking.

[redbaron]

How do EIIs prefer to resolve conflict with someone they don't know that well. Ignore it and hope it goes away? Would a letter be okay? What would they find the most comfortable? Say, if someone unintentionally hurt an EII and felt bad about it and wanted to apologize, how might they go about it? Especially if it might be potentially embarrassing for the EII. (I don't really want to go into details here)

[UDP]

If you have an apology to give, it is better to tell it to someone rather than not do it.

As far as INFjs and "hoping" problems will go away, yes, that is not unusual.

But if you have something to apologize for, my suggestion is to be upfront about it and do it.

[munenori2]

EIIs dislike conflict so much they won't even post in threads about it. I'm afraid you'll have to track one and tag it with a tranq dart just like everybody else.

But generally, being very straightforward and sincerely apologetic will almost always work.

[redbaron]

If you have an apology to give, it is better to tell it to someone rather than not do it.

As far as INFjs and "hoping" problems will go away, yes, that is not unusual.

But if you have something to apologize for, my suggestion is to be upfront about it and do it.

well that's where it gets tricky. I haven't done anything wrong. but she doesn't like me because I was friends with her husband and it made her nervous. So he broke off the friendship with me (after two years). But I feel really bad about the fact that the friendship caused her to be stressed out. I had no idea she was that worried about it. He led me to believe she was okay with it. Now I feel bad even though it wasn't my fault per se. So I'm really sorry but I'm more sorry about the situation than anything in particular that I did. I like her and I guess I don't want her to think I'm some uncaring individual!

I'm glad you responded to this, UDP, because I know you're good with EIIs. Given this extra info, what are your thoughts?

[UDP]

EIIs dislike conflict so much they won't even post in threads about it. I'm afraid you'll have to track one and tag it with a tranq dart just like everybody else.

But generally, being very straightforward and sincerely apologetic will almost always work.

Indeed.

well that's where it gets tricky. I haven't done anything wrong. but she doesn't like me because I was friends with her husband and it made her nervous. So he broke off the friendship with me (after two years). But I feel really bad about the fact that the friendship caused her to be stressed out. I had no idea she was that worried about it. He led me to believe she was okay with it. Now I feel bad even though it wasn't my fault per se. So I'm really sorry but I'm more sorry about the situation than anything in particular that I did. I like her and I guess I don't want her to think I'm some uncaring individual!

I'm glad you responded to this, UDP, because I know you're good with EIIs. Given this extra info, what are your thoughts?

(I'm "good with EIIs"? You can find evidence that says otherwise here on the forum.)

To be brief:

Just tell her that you want to clarify what happened and why. You can probably say "look, I'm sorry things turned out this way. I like you and still want to be on good terms with you. *explanation of your side of the story* *simple closing, insert hope of positive future relations* "


Additional stuff:

If you told me of your situation, and I was your friend, and we were discussing what to do, I'd basically tell you to do what I always tell people to do.

Your situation seems very easily dramatic. But to me, in situations like this, I'm just very direct. Say that you want to say. It's not really that complicated.

I don't really think you need any specific direction though. It's straight forward - you want to express your side of the story and indicate to her that you're not some mean person. If anything, I would go from the approach of "here is what happened, I'm sorry things got confused", rather than "I really hope you don't think I'm a bad person, because I'm not, and I don't want you to think of me that way". The later is maybe more an Fe approach (and I just find it annoying), the former perhaps is just a Te "here is what happened" approach. That's MY personal preferences, though.



...but like Munenori said: generally speaking if you are actually sincere and show efforts to repair things towards a positive relationship, there is a good chance it will be received well. So don't worry about this too much, just say your piece.


PS: also, it will be of significance in the future how you act. You can make this apology to her, but if you still are acting like some sketchy person, that might make her dislike of you linger. So be mindful of your actions, too.

[redbaron]

If anything, I would go from the approach of "here is what happened, I'm sorry things got confused", rather than "I really hope you don't think I'm a bad person, because I'm not, and I don't want you to think of me that way". The later is maybe more an Fe approach (and I just find it annoying), the former perhaps is just a Te "here is what happened" approach. That's MY personal preferences, though.

PS: also, it will be of significance in the future how you act. You can make this apology to her, but if you still are acting like some sketchy person, that might make her dislike of you linger. So be mindful of your actions, too.

Yeah I would just speak briefly and to the point. I was thinking of a letter though since I rarely see her. Would that be too dramatic or weird? I don't have her email address and I'm not going to ask the male ex-friend for it.

"if you are still acting like some sketchy person"?? Well, I never was acting like some sketchy person. It's pretty much her wild imagination if she thinks anything was going on between us. LOL But anyway, I get your drift.

[Christy B]

I don't exactly know what happened- but if your friend who is the husband of the Eii broke off the friendship with you it must have been a significant enough problem for the Eii that it was affecting their relationship. You could write a letter to explain your side of it or even make a call, and like Munenori said, be sincere.

I would not however expect the situation to change, in terms of become friends again with the husband, so just be wary that you may not get a positive response, or even a response at all. I'm sure you didn't do anything wrong, but sometimes in these situations it may be better to just leave things alone . . .

[redbaron]

I don't exactly know what happened- but if your friend who is the husband of the Eii broke off the friendship with you it must have been a significant enough problem for the Eii that it was affecting their relationship. You could write a letter to explain your side of it or even make a call, and like Munenori said, be sincere.

I would not however expect the situation to change, in terms of become friends again with the husband, so just be wary that you may not get a positive response, or even a response at all. I'm sure you didn't do anything wrong, but sometimes in these situations it may be better to just leave things alone . . .

Yes. well I think it's pretty obvious to me that they are having some trust issues and I certainly don't expect to be reinstated as a friend right away or anything. But I want her to know that I care about her and that I feel badly about my part in it, even tho unintentional.

[Christy B]

Yes. well I think it's pretty obvious to me that they are having some trust issues and I certainly don't expect to be reinstated as a friend right away or anything. But I want her to know that I care about her and that I feel badly about my part in it, even tho unintentional.

Is she jealous?

[redbaron]

Is she jealous?

In a word, yes. Insecure. And partly it's his fault (and I told him so, in a nicer way than that) for not assuring her beyond all doubt that she's the only one he loves in that way. ETC. As I said, there are issues. Plus I'm 10 years younger and all that stereotypical nonsense

[UDP]

Are you physically more attractive than the EII?

EIIs can be extremely insecure about their physical appearance, so any sort of sexual threat is probably even more wary. It sounds like she sees you as some sort of romantic/physical/sexual thread to her husband.

[UDP]

Plus I'm 10 years younger and all that stereotypical nonsense

Ah.

(I wrote my previous post before seeing that post)

[redbaron]

Are you physically more attractive than the EII?

EIIs can be extremely insecure about their physical appearance, so any sort of sexual threat is probably even more wary. It sounds like she sees you as some sort of romantic/physical/sexual thread to her husband.

yeah. I'm 10 years younger and taller and thinner yeah... But I don't dress sexy or act that way at all. Not to mention the fact that I'm happily married.

I hear what you're saying though. She may think he's attracted to me, even if there's nothing going on.

[Christy B]

yeah. I'm 10 years younger and taller and thinner yeah... But I don't dress sexy or act that way at all. Not to mention the fact that I'm happily married.

I hear what you're saying though. She may think he's attracted to me, even if there's nothing going on.

lol- maybe he is? I mean it may have nothing to do with you actually. It may just be that she cannot trust him, and yeah, feels insecure, and in that case there isn't much you can do. Writing a letter or trying to explain yourself won't help if she feels that way

Do you care very much about this guy as a friend- and need him in your life? Cause this sounds like maybe you should just cut it off . . . Maybe they have issues about trust that do not involve you- and since you are around those problems are being blamed on you?

anyways souns uncomfortable situation

[Not A Communist Shill]

How do EIIs prefer to resolve conflict with someone they don't know that well. Ignore it and hope it goes away? Would a letter be okay? What would they find the most comfortable? Say, if someone unintentionally hurt an EII and felt bad about it and wanted to apologize, how might they go about it? Especially if it might be potentially embarrassing for the EII. (I don't really want to go into details here)

I think considering all the words and considering what you think is best considering the circumstances, you should write a letter. Don't make everything seem like her fault - just apologise for what you see as possible misunderstandings between you, and how you should have dealt with the situation sooner, and how you hope that you can all be friends in the future on some warm spring morning with birds singing in the sky.

If this fails, then you should just blame her for everything and say that you never meant a word.

[redbaron]

I think considering all the words and considering what you think is best considering the circumstances, you should write a letter. Don't make everything seem like her fault - just apologise for what you see as possible misunderstandings between you, and how you should have dealt with the situation sooner, and how you hope that you can all be friends in the future on some warm spring morning with birds singing in the sky.

If this fails, then you should just blame her for everything and say that you never meant a word.

[redbaron]

lol- maybe he is? I mean it may have nothing to do with you actually. It may just be that she cannot trust him, and yeah, feels insecure, and in that case there isn't much you can do. Writing a letter or trying to explain yourself won't help if she feels that way

Do you care very much about this guy as a friend- and need him in your life? Cause this sounds like maybe you should just cut it off . . . Maybe they have issues about trust that do not involve you- and since you are around those problems are being blamed on you?

anyways souns uncomfortable situation

The friendship is already over. I just wanted her to know that I care and that I was sorry for the stress my part in it may have caused her. But you're right that it may have very little to do with me, ultimately. I guess I shouldn't say anything.

[UDP]

Are you doing this for her, or are you doing this because you don't want to look bad? (to her) ?


... are you doing this for yourself, or are you doing this for that person?

[redbaron]

Are you doing this for her, or are you doing this because you don't want to look bad? (to her) ?


... are you doing this for yourself, or are you doing this for that person?

Well I'm probably not going to do anything. I don't think I look bad. I haven't done anything wrong, nothing even questionable so it's not like I feel like I have anything to prove. If I did end up talking to her or sending a letter, I guess I'd be doing it to let her know that I care (because I do) which would be for both of us, and partly to keep the lines of communication and friendship open with the hopes that all of us can be friends in the future. I want her to know me, the kind of person I am. Not just that I don't want to look bad. I want her to know that I care about her as a person and that I don't like the results of the situation. (I don't know her as well because I don't see her as often as I see her husband. therefore she hasn't had much of a chance to get to know me)

[JuJu]

The friendship is already over. I just wanted her to know that I care and that I was sorry for the stress my part in it may have caused her. But you're right that it may have very little to do with me, ultimately. I guess I shouldn't say anything.

If you feel genuinely sorry, it's best to say so--in my experience, anyway... She may not respond--maybe not for years, maybe never... But if she's mature, she will appreciate it--if not now then eventually, as she becomes more forgiving, (as many good ppl do.) Maybe down the road, your paths will cross again, sans acrimony...

This has happened to me several times now.

[UDP]

EII's running away from conflict is the perfect excuse for LSE's to get angry at someone out of protecting someone else.

mwa ha ha

[redbaron]

EII's running away from conflict is the perfect excuse for LSE's to get angry at someone out of protecting someone else.

mwa ha ha

is that the sort of thing you like?

[Blaze]

How do EIIs prefer to resolve conflict with someone they don't know that well. Ignore it and hope it goes away? Would a letter be okay? What would they find the most comfortable? Say, if someone unintentionally hurt an EII and felt bad about it and wanted to apologize, how might they go about it? Especially if it might be potentially embarrassing for the EII. (I don't really want to go into details here)

EII is your quasi according to socionics. so no matter what you do (unless you reach deep into your unconscious functions) she is going to misunderstand you. this misunderstanding may be the source of her distrust, which is why she would not be friends with you.

she is going to see primarily between you some repulsion i would think. with Fi leading, it's going to boil down to that. so i would expect that while she will not like you, she will not avoid interactions with you since this relationship is one of many different kinds that she can see. so you want to smooth things over (Fe creative) and she's not going to care about that. however, she would be engaged in a discussion about the nature of the relationship perhaps.

she can see that your relationship with her husband is much more comfortable than the one she can potentially have with you. this is what she finds threatening. she sees no possibility that the relationship with you can be comfortable and easy; yet your relation with her husband (lookalike) is pretty comfortable, and equal. and, her relation with her husband is asymmetrical; she knows this intuitively; and she can sense the consequences of this in the marriage. so she sees that you would offer her husband a relationship of equal footing, while she cannot offer this.

you relate to her in some ways because you also are in an asymmetrical relationship with your husband - and your marriage is happy as you say - so you do not see yourself as a threat to her and you see similarities in the way you both relate to your husbands; a potential way of connecting with her. but, since she won't spend time with you, she may not see this potential connection and thus is unengaged.

i think if you talk about the relationships rather than the feelings you might have a better chance of reaching her.

i know, i can hear you all right now: a very Ti interpretation of this situation. sorry...it's the best i can do!

[redbaron]

Sunshine, that was great! Totally makes sense to me and I think you're completely right. Light bulb moment, really. Yeah I think everything you said was spot on. The EII and my ESE husband, on the very few times they've talked, have gotten on quite well (illusionary) and the SEI and ESE get along well also. The main problem has been her seeming to not like me. I don't suppose, ultimately, there is anything I can do about it. I'm thinking more and more that I just need to let it alone and walk away. It hurts a lot. But you talking about it this way was quite helpful. I'm thinking that she probably just wants me to disappear and won't care if I send a letter or not. I think she is rather annoyed with me. I mean, she's annoyed with me just for being who I am.

[Blaze]

Sunshine, that was great! Totally makes sense to me and I think you're completely right. Light bulb moment, really. Yeah I think everything you said was spot on. The EII and my ESE husband, on the very few times they've talked, have gotten on quite well (illusionary) and the SEI and ESE get along well also. The main problem has been her seeming to not like me. I don't suppose, ultimately, there is anything I can do about it. I'm thinking more and more that I just need to let it alone and walk away. It hurts a lot. But you talking about it this way was quite helpful. I'm thinking that she probably just wants me to disappear and won't care if I send a letter or not. I think she is rather annoyed with me. I mean, she's annoyed with me just for being who I am.

cool! i'm glad you got something out of what i wrote! :-)

it's kind of freeing isn't it; just kind of knowing why things are the way they are makes it easy to move on. it's kind of like the beauty of socionics eh?

[UDP]

is that the sort of thing you like?

Well I would never want to encourage someone to be weak, as in, encourage an EII to not deal with problems or run away from them.

But it is sort of cool, to take care of someone, and have them appreciate your assertiveness or directness, if it is something they aren't comfortable with doing themselves.

[redbaron]

Well I would never want to encourage someone to be weak, as in, encourage an EII to not deal with problems or run away from them.

But it is sort of cool, to take care of someone, and have them appreciate your assertiveness or directness, if it is something they aren't comfortable with doing themselves.

awww, you need an EII to take care of! They would definitely appreciate someone like you.

[Christy B]

I don't suppose, ultimately, there is anything I can do about it. I'm thinking more and more that I just need to let it alone and walk away. It hurts a lot. But you talking about it this way was quite helpful. I'm thinking that she probably just wants me to disappear and won't care if I send a letter or not. I think she is rather annoyed with me. I mean, she's annoyed with me just for being who I am.

I don't really think this has to do with Eii stuff. It just seems like she doesn't like you- probably jealous or something- and that it isn't worth the stress for you. No matter how much it hurts, thes people seem like drama- and you don't need it. You want to do something to fix the situation, but it seems like she already has you pegged. Sorry about that, but he also seems lame cause he would break of the friendship. I mean, they just seem like they have trust issues, and you don't need to be involved.

You may be better off without them!

[redbaron]

I don't really think this has to do with Eii stuff. It just seems like she doesn't like you- probably jealous or something- and that it isn't worth the stress for you. No matter how much it hurts, thes people seem like drama- and you don't need it. You want to do something to fix the situation, but it seems like she already has you pegged. Sorry about that, but he also seems lame cause he would break of the friendship. I mean, they just seem like they have trust issues, and you don't need to be involved.

You may be better off without them!

I agree. She has me pegged and I don't need it anymore. You're absolutely right.