Where Socionics doesn't apply

[Logos]

I'm sure that and would object to having to have N in order to know the mind.

[Slava]

I'm sure that and would object to having to have N in order to know the mind.

thats part of life's surprises, you discover in the end that you had it all allong, like in wizard of oz. But motivation to learn comes from not having an easy way out.

[FDG]

If you ever watch an ESFp or ESTp walk around a room and possition themselves, you will notice that they move very gracefully and put themselves in purposefull poses. Its really interesting to watch them do this. They know exactly what they look like from every angle. When they drive they transform their sensoric information and visualize the vehicle from above it. They do not rely on their senses as much as N people, which is ironic. They have a better ability to visualize things. They only use their senses to collect information but their mind can assemble 3D environments from the info they collect. They can see an extra spatial dimension that N people cannot. They experience depth better in the form of a tunnel almost. They don;t have wide periferal vision like N people do. Their pupils are usually very tightly focused, unlike N people whose pupils are much more dialted esp when intuiting. Se people order their perceptions in a similar fasion as Te people order priorities. If an Se person gets hurt or something smells bad, they can readjust their perception to ignore it. Ne people have scattered focus and cannot tune it out. Ne people have wide blurry perception and strive to make it more details and keep it wide. Se people have narrow sharp perception and strive to widen it but keep it as sharp.......

Thanks for this. Looks like I've found my base function.

[UDP]

(So you think you really areare ESFp, FDG? Or is that just sarcasm, etc?)

[Rocky]

you have to be N to have a first hand feel for what the mind is.

oh boy!! Just for fun, because this is soooo um, something. I give my notice now. I am an S. I am no longer an N. (Just because I feel like being mindless for awhile) Anyway, anyone who makes a comment like the one you just made immediately leads me to believe the opposite is true. I do hope you were joking.

the mind is a coneptual construct of the brains activity, its an intuitive model, its not concrete, the brain is not the mind. I'm not sure how else to put it.

Then you have just proven that you don't understand the functions. Sorry.

[Hugo]

Interpersonal relationships shows their colors when two people live together on a day to day basis and sharing responsibilities.

[Slava]

you have to be N to have a first hand feel for what the mind is.

oh boy!! Just for fun, because this is soooo um, something. I give my notice now. I am an S. I am no longer an N. (Just because I feel like being mindless for awhile) Anyway, anyone who makes a comment like the one you just made immediately leads me to believe the opposite is true. I do hope you were joking.

the mind is a coneptual construct of the brains activity, its an intuitive model, its not concrete, the brain is not the mind. I'm not sure how else to put it.

Then you have just proven that you don't understand the functions. Sorry.

What are you talking about? How did my statement make me seem like I don't understand the function? Is socionics not Ne dirived? It is. Who was the founder? SOMEONE WHO COULD SEE CONCEPTUAL CONSTRUCTS AND MODEL THINGS THAT ARE INTANGIBLE LIKE THE HUMAN MIND.

[Rocky]

Because you are completely oblivious to other types besides your own.

On a side note, I really hope the ENTPs I know in RL don't think the same way I've seen some of you on these forums. *shrugs* The ones I know don't bother me, but I wonder if underneath they are as dick-headish as *some* of you seem to be here. It scares me, since they're not like that at all.

[Slava]

Because you are completely oblivious to other types besides your own.

On a side note, I really hope the ENTPs I know in RL don't think the same way I've seen some of you on these forums. *shrugs* The ones I know don't bother me, but I wonder if underneath they are as dick-headish as *some* of you seem to be here. It scares me, since they're not like that at all.

What do you not like about my conduct? Because I'm making a lot of posts about ENTp and it happens to be my type? Please explain.

[Cone]

http://www.socionics.us/philosophy/s...c_theory.shtml

I think I agree with Rick in this URL. It seems as though typology would work better as an offset to relationship theory, instead of a theory on its own. Relationship theory has a much better chance of success because its focus is on the subjective relations between people, therefore it does not get as tangled up in trying to conform to objectivity.

[FDG]

(So you think you really areare ESFp, FDG? Or is that just sarcasm, etc?)

Nope, it's not sarcasm.

[UDP]

It does kind of make sense... now that I think of it, I got a similar sort of vibe - when you'd state your comments about some something I'd written- from an ESFp used to sit next to in high school.

[Rocky]

Because you are completely oblivious to other types besides your own.

On a side note, I really hope the ENTPs I know in RL don't think the same way I've seen some of you on these forums. *shrugs* The ones I know don't bother me, but I wonder if underneath they are as dick-headish as *some* of you seem to be here. It scares me, since they're not like that at all.

What do you not like about my conduct? Because I'm making a lot of posts about ENTp and it happens to be my type? Please explain.

Not that you're talking about your type, but that you're talking about your type as the only legitamate world view, disregarding the chance that other people are different from you and that *gasp* those different views can still make up what's considered the "mind" (considering that the mind is one of the only few things that the different types actually have in common).

But since I don't think the "mind" is as simple as you do, I try not to seperate people like that. But, I'll play your game for a second. Let's pretend that the functions are in fact related to the "mind" or "heart" or whatever. Now, you already said that Feeling is related to the heart, while Intuition is related to the mind? That makes NO sense. What is Thinking related to, in that case? If it is not the mind, then what is it? Why don't we get all stereotypical label all the functions; Thinking-mind, Feeling-heart, Sensing-body, Intuition-soul.

But as I said this is a silly game anyway.

[Slava]

Not that you're talking about your type, but that you're talking about your type as the only legitamate world view, disregarding the chance that other people are different from you and that *gasp* those different views can still make up what's considered the "mind" (considering that the mind is one of the only few things that the different types actually have in common).

Ok I see the problem now, because thats not at all what I was implying. Everyone has a mind, but not everyone thinks about the mind the same way. Some people preffer to see things as chemical imballances and neorons firing. Some preffer to see the mind with chakra models or socionic models which are conceptual models. Some people like to think of the mind as the physical brain. I accept that everyone has a different view, in fact that is what I am saying. But, Ne people are the ones that see the mind as a top down concept, which is what socionics is.

But since I don't think the "mind" is as simple as you do, I try not to seperate people like that.

Then what exactly are you doing on this forum or learning socionics in general?

But, I'll play your game for a second. Let's pretend that the functions are in fact related to the "mind" or "heart" or whatever. Now, you already said that Feeling is related to the heart, while Intuition is related to the mind?

There are songs with people signing about how the other person is the other ones mind, or heart, duals do things for each other to fill in missing areas. Why is it that ENFp's and ESFp's think that they are stupid, when intelligence has nothing to do with Ti? Why do people with weak Fi feel cold blooded, when Fi has nothing to do with we warm or cold (but its how people feel around you, and how you yourself feel). Why do people talk about breaking someones heart? Because that is the sensation, you entrust them with it in the begining and then they violate the agreement. People put things up for collateral, and sometimes other people walk away with it and people forget how to trust, but it manifests as the loss of an ability. People with Ne you will notice always try to shape their personality and fine tune it, they are aware of changes that took place. While Se people focus more on bodily upgrades and changes. Ne and Ni does involve interfacing with conceptual models including the model of the mind. Just like how Ti will always be the best diagnostics mechanic.

That makes NO sense. What is Thinking related to, in that case? If it is not the mind, then what is it? Why don't we get all stereotypical label all the functions; Thinking-mind, Feeling-heart, Sensing-body, Intuition-soul.

Once again its whatever society defined it as. "If I only had a brain"

But as I said this is a silly game anyway.

There are no games, just theories, observations, and deductions.




P.S.:

How is it that according to you I don't understand what functions are when I go into the following detail explaining them, and Se isnt even my own function!! FYI: I've noticed function in people since I was 3 or 4 years old and had a color system for them ever since, and associated all sorts of common correlation with their behavior. So don't think that memorizing every description/model/text based implies knowing socionics. Socionics was always around and Ne people have been using it since we were monkeys.

If you ever watch an ESFp or ESTp walk around a room and possition themselves, you will notice that they move very gracefully and put themselves in purposefull poses. Its really interesting to watch them do this. They know exactly what they look like from every angle. When they drive they transform their sensoric information and visualize the vehicle from above it. They do not rely on their senses as much as N people, which is ironic. They have a better ability to visualize things. They only use their senses to collect information but their mind can assemble 3D environments from the info they collect. They can see an extra spatial dimension that N people cannot. They experience depth better in the form of a tunnel almost. They don;t have wide periferal vision like N people do. Their pupils are usually very tightly focused, unlike N people whose pupils are much more dialted esp when intuiting. Se people order their perceptions in a similar fasion as Te people order priorities. If an Se person gets hurt or something smells bad, they can readjust their perception to ignore it. Ne people have scattered focus and cannot tune it out. Ne people have wide blurry perception and strive to make it more details and keep it wide. Se people have narrow sharp perception and strive to widen it but keep it as sharp.......

[Rocky]

Ok I see the problem now, because thats not at all what I was implying. Everyone has a mind, but not everyone thinks about the mind the same way.

OK.

But since I don't think the "mind" is as simple as you do, I try not to seperate people like that.

Then what exactly are you doing on this forum or learning socionics in general?

It depends how you look at it. Some people might see it as limiting... others see it as more expansive.

FYI: I've noticed function in people since I was 3 or 4 years old and had a color system for them ever since, and associated all sorts of common correlation with their behavior. So don't think that memorizing every description/model/text based implies knowing socionics. Socionics was always around and Ne people have been using it since we were monkeys.

EVERYONE does this, not just you.


(I left out a lot due to apathy more then anything else.)

[Slava]

FYI: I've noticed function in people since I was 3 or 4 years old and had a color system for them ever since, and associated all sorts of common correlation with their behavior. So don't think that memorizing every description/model/text based implies knowing socionics. Socionics was always around and Ne people have been using it since we were monkeys.

EVERYONE does this, not just you.

Consciously?

[meatburger]

I just want to say that im finding this thread facinating. I can relate to a lot of what your saying Slava it seems to make sense. I could never explain it like you have though

As a child i used to think, wow look at person a) that person looks exactly like so and so. Even when young i made the connection that they probablly acted in similar ways. Thats why i do believe there is basis for VI and when i found out about it i was excited.

pls continue

[Rocky]

FYI: I've noticed function in people since I was 3 or 4 years old and had a color system for them ever since, and associated all sorts of common correlation with their behavior. So don't think that memorizing every description/model/text based implies knowing socionics. Socionics was always around and Ne people have been using it since we were monkeys.

EVERYONE does this, not just you.

Consciously?

As I said, yes. Go ask an ISTJ and they'll tell you the same thing.