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Thread: Enlightening video: Arguments against Young Earth Creationism

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    Default Enlightening video: Arguments against Young Earth Creationism

    To make it more clear: It's about arguments taken from the scripture, not so much about science.

    Actually I never considered myself to be a young earth creationist. I think, the idea of young earth creationism itself is quite stupid.
    But I'm a Christian and therefore I believe God created the world.
    Recently my mind was full of questions though. My mother often watches natural history documentaries and my mind being full of information I somehow learned in my church or heard someone say, I didn't really know what to believe anymore. Doesn't mean I give up on my faith because of that - but I feel the urge to fight my doubts by finding a solution for the mystery.

    First of all, this video here shows the opinion of many Christians nowadays when it comes to the question if evolution and creation is reconcilable:



    I must admit, I had the same problem as this pastor for a long time. I learned in church that all pain, death, sicknesses and natural disasters are the result of sin. Obviously those things existed already before mankind, so there was a huge conflict going on between my knowledge, comprehension of the world and mind and my heart that just feels that God is there, that he exists. And my common sense just didn't allow it to answer this problem by stating that dinosaur bones were placed into the earth by the devil, like my old pastor said.

    Now I found this video, and though it doesn't answer everything, it's kind of enlightening. I see, that so many Christians actually believe in stuff that isn't even written in the Bible. I don't know why, maybe we're still deep down full with pagan mythology like Pandora's box and that's why we make up such unbiblical dogmas.

    If you're interested in the matter, here's the video:

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    New Earth creationism is a great example of how childhood brainwashing can cement a belief into a person, and as an adult the belief is retained despite all evidence to the contrary. No matter how obvious the evidence..

    The Bible is a channeling of the intuition by priests. Faith... is not about literal truth. You can be inspired by a good movie and apply it to your own life, you can read the new testament and apply it to yourself... the same resulting behavior shifts result, not taking the movie literally. Does whether the Bible is literally true really matter then? If Jesus was a real person, not just a sun-god myth, would he even care about this debate?
    ALso... the original Hebrew word for 'sin' meant something like 'mistake'. Mistakes are unavoidable... mistakes need to be made in order to calibrate behavior and learn from them... one becomes 'socially trained' by mistakes and corrections. Last thing... there are a couple mammals who eat their young if they (the adult) are starving.

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    When people try to explain inconsistencies against your worldview by saying that some mythological evil agent fabricated evidence in order to make the greater mythological good agent look bad, it is difficult to provide arguments to counter that worldview.

    If on the otherhand you are interested in observable evidence, you have automatically scuppered the arguments in favour of mythological explanations.

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    It boggles the mind how people really deeply believe the bible is like live news, for example Genesis is a CNN story.

    I visited a clients house this week to pick up a horse and her family is full on Mennonite. The moms in a dress and the little girls are in dresses and aprons and their gold hair was tied up in a bun. The men ate the food the girls brought to the table and afterwards we were in the living room and the sisters served their brother, us and their Father while we talked and they listened.

    It was a page out of the last century. There was no music playing in the house. There was no television. And yet, each person there had an almost palpable personal integrity I have not experienced in quite a while. Surely non-christians can also have integrity, I thought.

    The way I see it, why not let people hold on to their beliefs and their ways of living? If it works for them, great. I am sure they also fight their own battles against change, change in their children, change in society, change in world views. They must come to an understanding on their own, without outside influence.

    About ones faith reconciled with science? It is not that hard to do. I'm pretty sure God wants us to see the truth. I like to think that the development of planet earth, and the myriad forms of life from a small chain of acids IS the miracle. All else is fairy tales, once needed, now no longer important. What's important is how we treat each other. What's important is coming to a worldview that does not hide from the truth, in this case the truth of evolution. I feel sorry for those people who focus on the literal interpretation of the bible, I feel as though they are missing the entire point of the entire book.

    Hopefully these characters do not have that much influence over what people learn in schools in my country.

    Rich Dawkins did a big documentary on this topic of evolution vs creationism being taught in schools to children. To bad I can't find it. Here he has a discussion with a creationist.



    Would it had done anything to discuss evolution with this Mennonite family? Absolutely not. All it would have done is cause tension. Is their views on a creator Gad harming anyone? Absolutely not. The harm comes when those who believe in creationism have control over what children are learning in schools. The harm comes when a pastor tells his congregation that the world is only 6000 years old and that congregation goes home and votes on extremely important issues like environmental protection and the use of a countries resources ect..
    Last edited by wacey; 02-27-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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    The important thing I wanted to show is that some teachings are not even in accordance with scripture. Science is indeed more in accordance with scripture than some of those false dogmas.
    There is this whole page about it: godandscience.org
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    Okay Kadda1212, but isn't it interesting how firmly those 'wrong beliefs' are held?... by the grown adults who've been raised to believe them?
    I've seen that video of Dawkins.. it was a guilty indulgence in comedy, for me. But 4 years ago I would have told you I believed the New Testament story was literally true... and I was raised to believe it.

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    There seems to be a key danger that people who go from believing one thing with little or no evidence will end up believing in something else with little or no evidence, but I think the general trend is that people are becoming better informed and thus moving in the right direction.
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    Some people in the church don't really study the Bible, actually, it seems.
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    there shouldn't be any arguments against something that is so obviously and clearly not true. apologists should be shot to death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    Some people in the church don't really study the Bible, actually, it seems.
    DirectorAbbie knows the bible from cover to cover and firmly beliefs in a young earth, like she was taught. She believes that the great flood is responsible for all fossil records by... churning up mud and somehow sorting out and distributing the creatures in layers, burying them and ... the mud accelerated the fossilization process. Despite not being able to explain aquatic fossil layers through this theory, she still believes it and in new earth creationism. This is the theory taught to her by her parents and church community.


    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    Recently my mind was full of questions though. My mother often watches natural history documentaries and my mind being full of information I somehow learned in my church or heard someone say, I didn't really know what to believe anymore. Doesn't mean I give up on my faith because of that - but I feel the urge to fight my doubts by finding a solution for the mystery.

    First of all, this video here shows the opinion of many Christians nowadays when it comes to the question if evolution and creation is reconcilable:

    The two are easily reconciled.... Each creature throughout history lived life making choices... whether to follow what 'God' (their conscience) tells them; you could call them moral choices. The karma of their choices led them to survive or die. Just recognize God is in every creature, present at all times. The pastor acts like it was all pre-planned, but really from moment to moment creation takes place and 'god' is there. Romans 5:12... death is definitely part of nature, what can I say this part is wrong. You can interpret it in a certain sense if you want, and you'll be fine. But ultimately the bible is rambling of priests who don't want to die high on shrooms.
    Last edited by rat1; 02-28-2014 at 03:25 PM.

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    There is no god. End of inconsistency. Be happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    There is no god. End of inconsistency. Be happy.
    There's just as much scientific support for positive atheism than there is for theism.
    Hint: At least one of these values is 0.
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    Actually a supreme being would go against the laws of physics.

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    Sure it would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    There's just as much scientific support for positive atheism than there is for theism.
    Hint: At least one of these values is 0.
    The thing is that I don't believe something exists unless I have positive proof of its existence. I don't see any gods or proof of them, so I don't belive in any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    The thing is that I don't believe something exists unless I have positive proof of its existence. I don't see any gods or proof of them, so I don't belive in any.
    Yet you subscribe to positive atheism without a proof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    The thing is that I don't believe something exists unless I have positive proof of its existence. I don't see any gods or proof of them, so I don't belive in any.
    You haven't defined 'God'. How can you say something undefined doesn't exist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rat1 View Post
    You haven't defined 'God'. How can you say something undefined doesn't exist?
    I'm using the generally accepted definition of the word. Nothing fancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Yet you subscribe to positive atheism without a proof.
    Yes I do. As long as I have a reasonable amount of information about a subject and a reasonable lack of evidence to the contrary, I throw the baby out with the bath water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Yes I do. As long as I have a reasonable amount of information about a subject and a reasonable lack of evidence to the contrary, I throw the baby out with the bath water.
    What's your "reasonable lack of evidence to the contrary"?
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    people obsessing over these dumb dead horse topics make me hate science more than i already did.

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    why believe in sth else being god when I can believe in myself...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    What's your "reasonable lack of evidence to the contrary"?
    Do you see any deities walking around anywhere? No? If there were any who were interested in making themselves known to the human race, it would be as simple as waking up and saying hello. But you don't see that. The necessity of esotericism is a great point against supernatural beings.

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    you are your own god, ath. go exercise your divine wratthhh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Do you see any deities walking around anywhere? No? If there were any who were interested in making themselves known to the human race, it would be as simple as waking up and saying hello. But you don't see that. The necessity of esotericism is a great point against supernatural beings.
    Why do you assume supreme beings would be interested in humans?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    I've been told that ET spirits are interested in not just mere humans but ILE. They invite them to their spaceship and conduct experiments on their invaluable intellect, but don't quote me on that.

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    It is astounding to me that something so all-pervading is capable of being detected absolutely nowhere all of the time.

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    beliefs do not = truths

    Truth, for me, is that I exist, have always existed and will continue to exist. My form has changed over time (and outside of time) and will continue to change. I am one of the innumerable manifestations of "god".

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    I'm using the generally accepted definition of the word. Nothing fancy.
    Which one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ath View Post
    why believe in sth else being god when I can believe in myself...
    You could believe both

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    It is always heart-warming to see you're not going to hell for your sins, crazie rat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rat1 View Post
    Which one?

    You could believe both
    I imagine that is a novel idea to some.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    : D
    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    It is always heart-warming to see you're not going to hell for your sins, crazie rat.
    This place is my hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rat1 View Post
    : D

    This place is my hell.
    In that case reading with comprehension is heaven.

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    god exists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Chesney View Post
    god exists.
    Hope you know his type. He better be not EII, if you know what I mean. I need lots of space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Why do you assume supreme beings would be interested in humans?
    I don't. But I don't see any reason to believe in hidden plenipotentiaries without any direct proof of their existence.
    @crazedrat The obvious, simple one you're trying to ignore in a feeble attempt to make an argument. I'm not going to get caught up in an endless game of defining terms.

    I'll believe in a deity when one proves himself to me in a way that can't be explained by hallucination. Until then, piss on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    I don't. But I don't see any reason to believe in hidden plenipotentiaries without any direct proof of their existence.
    But without any direct proof you believe in their non-existence.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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