How do Se-nonvaluers get things done?

[silverchris9]

Hey!

So, a lot of times Se has this reputation as the "get shit done" function. The "make the choice on the fly, make it happen when it needs to happen, execute under pressure" kind of function. So I want to talk about how people who don't value Se get things done, especially in critical situations and/or high-pressure situations, but also just in real life.

To be clear, the question I'm asking isn't "how do you poor Se-nonvaluers get out of bed in the morning and ever make a decision?" but rather "In the situations that I expect to apply/use/see/experience Se to 'get things done' how do Se-nonvaluers understand the situation and how might we see that in behavior?"

Obviously, this is socionics so talk about behavior is valuable and interesting, but talk about perception, how types tend to perceive situations, is probably more valuable. And then more valuable than either is work that helps us see the perceptions in the actions, or the relationship between how someone processes information (in socionics terms) and how they act. (Sorry for the condescending explanation, just the quickest way to explain my theoretical commitments/how I'm approaching things). Also feel free to turn it around and talk in terms of how Se-valuers see things and how that affects their actions. Anyway, Here are some general, loose ideas to get the discussion started:

Does it have something to do with avoiding the super high-pressure scenario in the first place? I mean that not in the sense of aversion but more like, perhaps Se-nonvaluers would ascribe to statements like, "If you handle situations correctly on a regular basis, you rarely have to deal with a big crisis." Sort of like the effectiveness analogue of "if you're slow and steady, you won't have to sprint to win the race."

Are Se-nonvaluers likely to have the same "pace" of work as Se-valuers but without the same energy of urgency or "fast tempo" (I'm thinking in short-term, crisis situations, like a few hours or less; obviously, the pace of work varies wildly from individual to individual and circumstance to circumstance).

Is it possible that there's a genuine type-related advantage here; that is, given equal levels of skill and experience in a given situation, the Se-valuer will tend to perform better than the Se-nonvaluer in a short, intense situation (and enjoy the situation more). If so, where might this arise from?

Is there a difference in what Se-valuers and Se-nonvaluers might think of when they think of a "crisis situation." (Alternatively, am I just personally using the word unclearly/idiosyncratically)

Getting away from crises, what are some differences in how Se-valuers and Se-nonvaluers approach achieving short-term goals (baking a cake, or something of equivalent length), medium-term goals (say, producing/project managing an event at work over the course of a couple months), and long-term goals (I want to be a movie star, or more achievable but equally long-range goals)?

[willekeurig]

tl;dr, but...


how do Te-nonvaluers get things done?

[Absurd]

Lul. Burn.

[Scapegrace]

Accomplishing shit, fuck yeah!

[FDG]

It has absolutely nothing to do with type.

[InvisibleJim]

I'm really worried how they know if they are drinking coffee or not.

[FDG]

Anyway, Se dominant people seem to often be about motivating people to get shit done rather than really doing it themselves. I'm not saying they do not, but they're fairly opportunistic about it, in my experience - and similar to their duals, in this respect (compare this to Se creatives, which may sometimes be selectively more "pushy" but they will do a very large share of the work themselves).

[Erk]

Getting what done, and at what cost? What do I get out of it right here and right now? How will I look? That's how Se valuers get shit done. Se is about image, it will do something for the simple fact that it will make a situation or object appear a certain way. I'm no stranger to that method. In the workplace you'll see Se valuers arguing over bullshit pissing off their bosses and Te types rolling their eyes and doing whatever suits them or acknowledging the situation and dealing with it. Oh I have to do the work of two people today okay DONE. Oh today I can slack, yup slacking my ass off. Also don't forget Se is evaluating other objects too, if it thinks it's boss is a pussy it will act in accordance and probably appear very lazy. If the boss is a real hardass though you'll probably see the Se type actually doing some work on a daily basis.

[blackburry]

dunno. I just do something when I feel like it. and don't when I don't. or gasp..sometimes I suck it up and do something when I really don't want to only because it's due or past due.

sup.

[Iris]

I greatly value se, but I ain't getting nothing done today. I am just sitting around wishing I could get something done. Ugh.

[DirectorAbbie]

How do Se-nonvaluers get things done?

More efficiently than you.

[Exodus]

is indeed the "get stuff done" element. I'm not sure this has to do with valuing because suggestive types don't generally have a ton of motivation for getting stuff done.

Does it have something to do with avoiding the super high-pressure scenario in the first place? I mean that not in the sense of aversion but more like, perhaps Se-nonvaluers would ascribe to statements like, "If you handle situations correctly on a regular basis, you rarely have to deal with a big crisis." Sort of like the effectiveness analogue of "if you're slow and steady, you won't have to sprint to win the race."

This is part of it for sure.

Are Se-nonvaluers likely to have the same "pace" of work as Se-valuers but without the same energy of urgency or "fast tempo" (I'm thinking in short-term, crisis situations, like a few hours or less; obviously, the pace of work varies wildly from individual to individual and circumstance to circumstance).

There is truth to this too. I think also that what Se valuing types see as "getting something done" can often mean making a big fuss but actually not doing a whole lot to address the actual problem, or possibly even making it worse. Think Trump's blustering, or Bush taking the U.S. to war in Iraq after 9/11. The common theme here is the mentality "we have to do something!!!" but what that actual thing is is not thought through very well, you may as well be smashing your head against a wall. So sometimes there is an approach that requires more patience, subtlety, or negotiation but is actually better.

That being said, lack of Se can definitely cause people to get sidetracked or not have the wherewithal to deal with problems, until it becomes too late to do anything about it.

[niffer]

Urgh. Well it's more like both Se and Te. And the answer to that is to see how EIIs and IEIs get things done... which really does happen sometimes, believe it or not!!!!! Like see this thread for instance: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...gram-Resources

This is really just a silly, over-stereotyping thread in the first place.

[Chae]

Debate question: Could an enneagram 3 IEI get more good work done than an enneagram 7 SEE?

[Muddy]

There is truth to this too. I think also that what Se valuing types see as "getting something done" can often mean making a big fuss but actually not doing a whole lot to address the actual problem, or possibly even making it worse. Think Trump's blustering, or Bush taking the U.S. to war in Iraq after 9/11. The common theme here is the mentality "we have to do something!!!" but what that actual thing is is not thought through very well, you may as well be smashing your head against a wall. So sometimes there is an approach that requires more patience, subtlety, or negotiation but is actually better.

I'd be interested to know if Se types who play Skyrim tend to side with the stormcloaks more often while Si types tend to side with the Empire.

That being said, lack of Se can definitely cause people to get sidetracked or not have the wherewithal to deal with problems, until it becomes too late to do anything about it.

I've been playing a lot of Skyrim lately (thanks to special edition and mods) and I think the Stormcloaks there could be be a perfect example of this kind of Se attitude towards needing to something, if you are at all familiar with Skyrim's story. They want to do something about the banning of talos worship and the thalmor arresting people in Skyrim now even if it means more losses, while the empire wants to be patient instead and wait for a more convenient time to attack the thalmor even if it means sucking thalmor cock in the meantime. The whole civil war between the empire and the stormcloaks pretty much centers around this difference.

I'd be interested to know of Se types who play skyrim tend side with stormcloaks more often while Si types tend to side more with empire.

[Bertrand]

I feel like Si is "if I don't do this I'm going to feel like shit (until I do, or if I miss my chance), so I may as well do it sooner rather than later" mixed with Te/Fi it first asks "do I even care?"

[Cosmic Teapot]

Debate question: Could an enneagram 3 IEI get more good work done than an enneagram 7 SEE?

I think that depends on how much time is available, the type and amount of work and the environment (like a dual close-by and motivation or worthwhile goal). When all elements are favorable for both socio-types it would be a tie or the SEE wins ...because bulldozer Se needs to win (if both types are aware that they are in a competition)
I've never met an IEI E3 so I can't say
(some mythical creature that I can't even imagine)

What do you think?

[Stellafera]

Debate question: Could an enneagram 3 IEI get more good work done than an enneagram 7 SEE?

As long as the IEI is motivated, their bottleneck is going to be in "more work done"/"work that has something to show for it". They can easily match the SEE in effort and whatever they complete will likely be airtight. The question is whether they will get stuck on something midway through and not realize how get past it. Successful strategy for the IEI here is to plan out how they will budget their time and proceed in an organized fashion to compensate for weak Te.

[Beautiful sky]

I do a lot but I don't think Se has to do with doing. There are total homebody and shy SEE and SLE who don't like socializing.

[Singu]

IPs are the least likely to do anything... and they'd have to be in the right mood/comfort and feel like doing it to do something. The next are INxxs in general.

[niffer]

IPs are the least likely to do anything... and they'd have to be in the right mood/comfort and feel like doing it to do something. The next are INxxs in general.

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