What's her sociotype? (please attempt VI)

[HERO]

m

[HERO]

Here is something she once wrote:

"David Bowie > Everyone else."


I agree that she might be an irrational/perceiving type. IEE is plausible. I remember she also likes [and/or liked (?)] Trent Reznor, etc. I learned about a lot of music from the mixed CD's she made for me in 2006--The Dresden Dolls, Ani DiFranco, Metric, etc. Other types I'd consider include SEI, IEI, and LII. My ex-boyfriend thought she VI'd EII. There were times when I thought she looked a bit like an ILI, but that's unlikely. Whatever she is, she's probably not EXXj, although I'm really not sure.

I think her favorite characters from Buffy (or the ones she related to the most) were Willow and Spike.

[Introspector]

She look introverted
IxFj-Pe Sub

[mikemex]

ILE.

[1981slater]

alpha SF, probably ESE

[HERO]

Here are some examples of things she's written:

"No, you are just too self-involved.
Good on you though."

"It's okay. But I don't think we're probably even think[ing] on the same wave length. Maybe you should go about making new friends and building a life before contacting old ones?
Just a suggestion."

"It seems like this whole 'retreating back to your past thing' is just a excuse to regress. Go forward not backward."

[Esaman]

Here are some examples of things she's written:

"No, you are just too self-involved.
Good on you though."

"It's okay. But I don't think we're probably even think[ing] on the same wave length. Maybe you should go about making new friends and building a life before contacting old ones?
Just a suggestion."

"It seems like this whole 'retreating back to your past thing' is just a excuse to regress. Go forward not backward."

Those quotes give an image of EII who is telling someone in an amazingly nice way that she despises him and he needs to get lost.

[HERO]

I think she might be ESI. I'm not sure about subtype. ESI-Se or ESI-Fi. If ESI-Fi, then maybe Normalizing subtype (ISFj-ISTj or ISFj-INTj). She's quite 'conservative' and skeptical in certain ways. I think she's a liberal, politically. Yet like many Western feminists, she's more supportive of the transgendered and things like analism (than masculine-identified men who love men monogamously and phallically), and she asks questions like, "Why don't you want to do anal?" In other words, (gay-identified) guys who don't want to do anal (and are into or believe in frot) don't fit into her narrow stereotypical heterosexualized picture of the world. [Or in other words, straight people don't have to do anal, but gay males must.]

Plus, she's straight-identified, but most likely was and/or still is a closeted bisexual (since high school or earlier). [And like many Western straight-identified females (and males) she said she doesn't believe in bisexuality -- that it's a trend.]

And she was spanked as a child yet sees no connection between that and her adolescent self-mutilating. And she said that she would also spank her own children (if she ever has children; it seems likely that she might want to have children one day). She also thought that H*tler was lying about his (childhood) abuse, and never wanted to recognize connections between things like bulimia, etc. and (early) childhood trauma and abuse, although there has been scientific research and studies done on these subjects.

Also, she made sweeping generalizations like saying that the ancient Greeks were not homosexuals, but pedophiles. Sure, things like child molestation and pedophilia probably existed in great degrees in ancient times, although even now 'sexual' abuse/anal abuse/enemas/molestation inflicted on children and infants probably happens more often than people think, even in the West (otherwise things like rapes, promiscuity, sadomasochism, pedophilia, analism, and paraphilias/dangerous perversions wouldn't be so common). [Yet I'd assume that things like enemas (done on children and infants) are probably less common in the West than they used to be, just like they usually don't use rectal thermometers on babies anymore yet they did when I was a baby in Canada (circa 1990).]

Of course there's enough evidence that there also existed consensual sex between males (who were not children) in ancient Greece, and most of the sex was probably stuff like intercrural sex and/or frottage (genital-genital sex). There was much less hygiene in the ancient world, so things like anal and oral (especially in regards to consensual sex as opposed to 'sex' with children) were probably much less common than they are now. And if anal was anywhere near as common in the ancient world as it eventually came to be in the 1970's and 1980's (among men who have sex with men), then there probably would have been some similar plague in the ancient world among men who have sex with men. My belief is that along with the evolution of child rearing, there is also a transitional period in which stuff that used to be directed mostly at children and/or infants (like anal abuse, buggery, etc.) gradually becomes more common among adults and young adults (and also becomes more common in ostensibly 'consensual' contexts in tandem with societal/social pressures, societal/social norms and constructs, repressed traumas, repetition compulsions, etc.). The problem is that just because something like that becomes more common among adults and young adults doesn't mean that it necessarily happens to children and infants less (although certainly less [in regards to conspicuous ubiquity and brutality] than the ancient world).

Anyway, I don't think anal should be conflated or associated with male homosexuality any more than it is conflated or associated with heterosexuality or female homosexuality (lesbianism). Perhaps in a century (more or less) this transitional period will give way to a better world.

Regarding the use of the phrase "sex with children", that's not something I'd normally write, yet she did write it in the past when talking about a novel she liked -- Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov, which she studied in University. I think it was something about how she sometimes related to the obsession or infatuation, yet of course not to having 'sex' with children.


edit: I also remember a time when she was somewhat scandalized, albeit in a subdued way, about two 'gay' male penguins that raised an infant penguin.... She was sort of laughing about it or something. 'Penguins'... Like can you believe such things could exist in penguins, etc. Apparently she never read Biological Exuberance.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

who's the lady in your avatar?

[Esaman]

I think she might be ESI. I'm not sure about subtype. ESI-Se or ESI-Fi. If ESI-Fi, then maybe Normalizing subtype (ISFj-ISTj or ISFj-INTj). She's quite 'conservative' and skeptical in certain ways. I think she's a liberal, politically. Yet like many Western feminists, she's more supportive of the transgendered and things like analism (than masculine-identified men who love men monogamously and phallically), and she asks questions like, "Why don't you want to do anal?" In other words, (gay-identified) guys who don't want to do anal (and are into or believe in frot) don't fit into her narrow stereotypical heterosexualized picture of the world. [Or in other words, straight people don't have to do anal, but gay males must.]

Plus, she's straight-identified, but most likely was and/or still is a closeted bisexual (since high school or earlier).

And she was spanked as a child yet sees no connection between that and her adolescent self-mutilating. And she said that she would also spank her own children (if she ever has children; it seems likely that she might want to have children one day). She also thought that H*tler was lying about his (childhood) abuse, and never wanted to recognize connections between things like bulimia, etc. and (early) childhood trauma and abuse, although there has been scientific research and studies done on these subjects.

Also, she made sweeping generalizations like saying that the ancient Greeks were not homosexuals, but pedophiles. Sure, things like child molestation and pedophilia probably existed in great degrees in ancient times, although even now 'sexual' abuse/anal abuse/enemas/molestation inflicted on children and infants probably happens more often than people think, even in the West (otherwise things like rapes, promiscuity, sadomasochism, pedophilia, analism, and paraphilias/dangerous perversions wouldn't be so common). [Yet I'd assume that things like enemas (done on children and infants) are probably less common in the West than they used to be, just like they usually don't use rectal thermometers on babies anymore yet they did when I was a baby in Canada (circa 1990).]

Yet there's enough evidence that there also existed consensual sex between males (who were not children) in ancient Greece, and most of the sex was probably stuff like intercrural sex and/or frottage (genital-genital sex). There was much less hygiene in the ancient world, so things like anal and oral (especially in regards to consensual sex as opposed to 'sex' with children) were probably much less common than they are now. And if anal was anywhere near as common in the ancient world as it eventually came to be in the 1970's and 1980's (among men who have sex with men), then there probably would have been some similar plague in the ancient world among men who have sex with men. My belief is that along with the evolution of child rearing, there is also a transitional period in which stuff that used to be directed mostly at children and/or infants (like anal abuse, buggery, etc.) gradually becomes more common among adults and young adults (and also becomes more common in ostensibly 'consensual' contexts in tandem with societal/social pressures, societal/social norms and constructs, repressed traumas, etc.). The problem is that just because something like that becomes more common among adults and young adults doesn't mean that it necessarily happens to children and infants less (although certainly much less than in the ancient world).

Anyway, I don't think anal should be conflated or associated with male homosexuality any more than it is conflated or associated with heterosexuality or female homosexuality (lesbianism). Perhaps in a century (more or less) this transitional period will give way to a better world.

Regarding the use of the phrase "sex with children", that's not something I'd normally write, yet she did write it in the past when talking about a novel she liked -- Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov, which she studied in University. I think it was something about how she sometimes related to the obsession or infatuation, yet of course not to having 'sex' with children.

Here, you lost a screw.
*hands the screw.
You were analyzing her type but ended up lecturing and theorizing about your hang up.

[HERO]

who's the lady in your avatar?

The lady I had in my avatar yesterday is supposed to be an LSI from Filatova's pictures of people.

[HERO]

Here, you lost a screw.
*hands the screw.
You were analyzing her type but ended up lecturing and theorizing about your hang up.

Ekaterina Filatova, Understanding The People Around You: An Introduction To Socionics (Hollister: MSI Press, 2006), 59-62:


- pp. 59-62 [THE PSYCHOLOGIST: Feeling-Intuitive Introvert (FII)]:
, , ,


General Appearance

The distinguishing feature of this psychological type is an impassive face and a vague look in the eyes, as if Psychologists (FIIs) are locked into themselves and only loosely connected with reality. Around the feeling subtype of Psychologists, an air of doubt and apprehensiveness can be felt, while the intuitive subtype is more open, friendly, and outgoing. If Psychologists dislike something, they may clam up for a while and <live through it>. They know how to dress with style if they think about it, but may well ignore their appearance during periods of depression, which are not uncommon.


Characterization According to Strong Channel Functions

I. Personality Program Channel ( -- psychological environment, relations...)


While Psychologists promptly sense the complexity of interactions between people in any group, they restrain from revealing their own views. They try to smooth over any misunderstandings, always avoiding conflict: when a friend does not remember the Psychologist settling a debt, the Psychologist would prefer to quickly pay again, though quite confident in having paid the first time. Psychologists cannot stand quarrels and would put up with a lot to avoid them. They believe that <better a lean peace than a fat victory>. If their patience comes to an end, they do not rage or yell. They simply erect a mental barrier between themselves and the offender -- keeping a <stony> face, answering questions single-wordedly, and acting cold and official. If they hear that someone is in distress, Psychologists will go and try to help in any way possible. This can take the form of financial help or just lending an ear, taking some of the emotional burden upon themselves. People often come to Psychologists for a shoulder to cry on, finding them sympathetic listeners.


Psychologists cannot stand seeing someone hurt in front of them, especially a child, even if the child is being punished by his or her parents. In situations like this, they might approach the child's parents and talk to them:

You're teaching your child to be cruel! She will act the same way to you when you're old and weak!


They will make sure the child does not hear this criticism. With their own children, Psychologists try to be fair: if they feel that they are in the wrong, they will ask the child's forgiveness.

If a Psychologist does something he feels proud of, then he childishly brags about it. Sometimes Psychologists are frank before strangers, sharing with them personal matters that they usually do not speak about. Later they may regret this and wonder why they did it.

Once they fall in love, Psychologists may keep their feelings concealed for years. However, if their torment is overwhelming, they may give up and confess to the object of their affections, most likely in writing. They do not care about the outcome, as long as their suffering stops.


II. Productive Channel ( -- potential abilities, alternatives...)

Harmony in relationships with people is a Psychologist's life credo. To achieve this harmony, they search for true values in the world of inner-self and morality. From their youth, Psychologists make every effort to become the ideal they have shaped in their minds. Teenagers of this type often keep a diary, where they record their observations (mostly about themselves) and analyze their actions, harshly criticizing themselves for even the tiniest step away from the ideal.

A classic example:

A 15-year old high-school student, a Psychologist, had been saving his lunch money for a long time in order to buy the Swiss army knife which he wanted. When he had enough money, he realized that the knife was no longer being sold in stores, but there were two other Swiss knives: one that was even more expensive and attractive, and the other that was the same price, but not very appealing. What should he do? Wait and save up enough money for the better knife? However, he was set on buying a knife today. He stood at the window for a long time, staring longingly at the unreachable <treasure>, but finally bought the cheaper knife. On leaving the store, he realized that the lady in the store had given him the other knife, the one he dreamed about. Here began his miseries. He stood for an hour at the door of the store, not able to return the object of his dreams. On the other hand, he felt morally wrong because he did not return the expensive Swiss army knife to the lady—that is, he deceived her. Finally, he settled on a compromise. He would keep the knife, but in the future, he would give back anything he got dishonestly right away, before he fell in love with it.

From this example, it is obvious that Psychologists can mull for a long time over something anybody else would consider a given.

The priority of moral values can emerge in the Psychologists' life in the most unusual situations: for example, when the person they love prefers another, they may help their competitor get promoted. Psychologists consider harming their rival in this situation dishonorable.

When high ideals and moral values are determined by a genuine love of people, a person of this type can be very useful to the community as a teacher, preacher, counselor—a role model, in other words. As opposed to that, a Psychologist may also become an annoying moralizer and a bothersome lecturer.


Characterization According to Weak Channel Functions

III. Vulnerable Channel ( -- volitional pressuring, activeness, survival in harsh competition...)



Psychologists take everything related to violence in any form very painfully. They judge their own actions in the categories of persistence and determination. They shape these qualities within themselves: they can work out a daily schedule, hang it on the wall, and systematically follow it. However, Psychologists tend to overexert themselves with vows approaching the point of self-torture. For example,

A ninth grade girl with acrophobia (fear of heights) struggled to strengthen her willpower, by forcing herself to walk over a river on a disassembled bridge, from which only a single 450-foot long metal rail was left. (There was a newly built bridge nearby). When she achieved the goal, she decided to go back the same way, as it was not enough for her, though her knees were shaking from exhaustion. With great difficulty, pausing and looking up to fight dizziness, she made it from an island to the mainland, with a crowd of very agitated onlookers yelling at her. This endeavor nearly cost the girl her life.

The Psychologists' slogan of self-perfection is <Do not what is wanted, but what is needed>. While treating themselves this way (sometimes very harshly), Psychologists do not, however, press others, believing that everyone should improve upon themselves. They cannot tolerate someone trying to force them to do something: they prefer to have nothing in common with people like this.


IV. Suggestible Channel ( -- pragmatism, efficacy...)

Psychologists lack a strong ability to work effectively, and this shortcoming is at odds with their battle towards self-perfection. As a result, they may force themselves to work <from dawn till dusk>, exhausting themselves and wasting a lot of strength and energy where another person would do the same thing with a lot less exertion. The Psychologist gladly lets others teach him or her how to work more efficiently and feels grateful towards the person who does that. In this next example, a woman, a Psychologist, recalls:

I had a hard time trying to learn how to use my computer all by myself. Luckily, my 12-year-old son is skilled in computers. Once, he showed me how to use the <Help> function when you don't know how a program works. It turned out to be pretty straightforward. Since that time I always use this function when I am uncertain what to do.

In order to work productively, Psychologists require a favorable psychological atmosphere. They do not get along well with a boss who considers them incompetent. If their colleagues share their moral beliefs, they switch into work mode and are capable of working very productively.

Job Options

The best ways to make use of the Psychologists' abilities lie in the spheres of philosophy, religion, or missionary enlightenment. People of this psychological type can also be successful in education, and many FIIs feel pulled toward psychology. FIIs can also be found working in the field of art, though rarely as actors or actresses, as it is hard for them to perform in front of a large audience; rather, they are good at teaching in the Humanist field, or in colleges of the visual arts.

Famous FIIs: actor—Jeremy Irons; artist—Vincent Van Gogh; writers—Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Alexander Solzhenitsyn; politicians—Nicholas II (the last Russian tsar)

[HERO]

I forgot to add, there was this one time she said that my parents are peculiar after I asked her what she thinks of them. My Mom might be SEI (ISFp) and I'm even more sure that my Mom's ex-boyfriend (who I considered my 'parent'/'stepfather' at the time since he was my Mom's boyfriend for almost ten years) was LSI-Se (Creative subtype) [ISTj-ENFp?].

"They're peculiar." I think those were her exact words. I think she also once said that she thought my Mom was "funny", but I don't think she meant funny like Absurd.

edit: And she described my EIE-Ni aunt as seeming 'very set in her ways' or something like that. That was when my aunt visited us once.

edit again: The music my Mom likes includes the following -- Phil Collins, Charles Aznavour, Yves Montand, Edith Piaf, Sarah Brightman, Sting, Diana Krall, Aimee Mann, Barbara Streisand, Bach, Mireille Mathieu, Coldplay, etc.

[HERO]

Here, you lost a screw.
*hands the screw.
You were analyzing her type but ended up lecturing and theorizing about your hang up.

'[Esaman] asserts that gay men who don't do anal have "baggage" -- that is of course, pyschological baggage, of the sort that gay men were commonly said to have had vis-a-vis women five decades ago.'

[Olly From Wally World]

Ekaterina Filatova, Understanding The People Around You: An Introduction To Socionics (Hollister: MSI Press, 2006), 59-62:


- pp. 59-62 [THE PSYCHOLOGIST: Feeling-Intuitive Introvert (FII)]:
, , ,


General Appearance

The distinguishing feature of this psychological type is an impassive face and a vague look in the eyes, as if Psychologists (FIIs) are locked into themselves and only loosely connected with reality. Around the feeling subtype of Psychologists, an air of doubt and apprehensiveness can be felt, while the intuitive subtype is more open, friendly, and outgoing. If Psychologists dislike something, they may clam up for a while and <live through it>. They know how to dress with style if they think about it, but may well ignore their appearance during periods of depression, which are not uncommon.


Characterization According to Strong Channel Functions

I. Personality Program Channel ( -- psychological environment, relations...)

............. (not quoting the whole thing but responding to the whole post)

Cool. Is there also an IEI description somewhere like this?

[Amber]

I'm inclined to type most people of African descent Fi users and I don't like that.


Irrational Ethical type, she seems to value Se>Ne, maybe SEE.

"We can't plan life. All we can do is be available for it."

"I need to be surrounded by people as passionate and as dedicated as I am."

"Nobody's going to force me to do something against my will. What do I owe anybody that I should submit my will to them?"

"I had to confront my fears and master my every demonic thought about inferiority, insecurity, or the fear of being black, young, and gifted in this Western culture."

[HERO]

I'm inclined to type most people of African descent Fi users and I don't like that.


Irrational Ethical type, she seems to value Se>Ne, maybe SEE.

"We can't plan life. All we can do is be available for it."

"I need to be surrounded by people as passionate and as dedicated as I am."

"Nobody's going to force me to do something against my will. What do I owe anybody that I should submit my will to them?"

"I had to confront my fears and master my every demonic thought about inferiority, insecurity, or the fear of being black, young, and gifted in this Western culture."

While the girl I made this thread on might be SEE, she's not of African descent and obviously those quotations don't originate from her.

Her ancestry is mainly French/Quebecois and, of course, white. I think she told me that her ancestry might also include a small fraction of First Nations, yet she's very white and pale.

Perhaps if she had African descent she'd be more open-minded and/or religious/spiritual or something. Yet she's an atheist and so are her parents. In addition, she embodies that typical cynical, jaded, cold, unforgiving, arrogant, detached, hypocritical, heartless, barren, sterile Western ("white" and "half-white") attitude that is so omnipresent on the Internet and forums like these.


The barren, hostile, heartless, cynical, jaded, cold, unforgiving, arrogant, chauvinistic/jingoistic, detached, hypocritical, over-protected and/or complacent West versus the impulsive, authoritarian, corrupt, reactive, superstitious, violent, psychotic, oppressive, chaotic, wild, victimized, insecure and/or intolerant East (which 'partially' includes Romania -- The Gates of the Orient).



Oh yeah, I forgot to add that there's at least one person on this forum who stopped talking to me because I'm not into anal, or at least partially because of that. I guess they're waiting until I finally decide to try it, but I won't.

And then there are gay guys (on line or in real life) who will just stop talking to you (if you're a gay guy and you tell them you're not into anal). C'est la vie.

No one wants to talk about alternatives to anal when more and more gay and bisexual men are getting HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis C, etc.

http://dailyxtra.com/canada/news/new...n-report-finds

http://dailyxtra.com/world/life/sex/...ottom-anal-sex


You know what, I think we're all more complicit than we think.

[Amber]

I thought this thread was about Lauryn Hill, you had a video of her. I may have confused something.