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Thread: Instinct workshop notes sp,so,sx

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    Default Instinct workshop notes sp,so,sx

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    Last edited by silke; 11-30-2016 at 06:42 PM.

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    Polycentric bioenergy impulse exchanges understood through subject-object relations. Nice. I appreciate the OP's attention to higher operational factors than the gross products of vulgar behaviorism. More like this plx.

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    this is really cool. :0

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    This is actually really good for explaining instincts to others from a non-experiential standpoint. It also better explains what it is that unnerves me about Sx-lasts: forming connections without or regardless of the in-person attraction or chemistry between them, as opposed to the idea of them wanting a sense of group togetherness and solidarity.
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    this helped with some confusion i've had about sp/sx vs. sx/sp and why sx-firsts can seem less "intimate" to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    this helped with some confusion i've had about sp/sx vs. sx/sp and why sx-firsts can seem less "intimate" to me.
    Less intimate? Interesting, I'd like to hear more from your perspective on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Less intimate? Interesting, I'd like to hear more from your perspective on that.
    the literature tends to talk about sx-firsts being so focused on bonding or whatever and it confused me when i compared it to actual people. because something i'd noticed is that sx-firsts can, to me, seem kinda - the word that comes to mind is slutty, but i don't mean that literally. i mean in their energy, or the feelers they put out for connection. like they'll find it anywhere and its not really as special. and what i read here coalesced with that impression, like its more of a selfish thing about their own feeling of intensity and resonance and not about actual bonding or realness. like they're more hungry for it so they'll just eat whatever is sitting around.
    (well i'm aware that connecting is obviously an important aspect of sx but i'm emphasizing the difference i see for the sake of explaining)

    it makes me think maybe sx-seconds are probably where its at for me re: comfort in relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal
    ~ when sp is dominant, one-on-one relationships emphasize someone to nest with, build a castle with; long term relationships common due to focus on stability. sp is realistic about commitment, not going with every whim of feeling. the ability to look back and say "look at what we've built/created together" -- things are taken care of and now we can enjoy it; cozy. endurance in relationship builds love and trust
    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal
    ~ when we are tuned into the sx energy, we're more aware of the energy itself (e.g. the sense of arousal) than "the relationship" / a sense that the energy is pushing us into certain behaviors / sense of being compelled toward something (again, the flip side of this is revulsion, being compelled away from something)

    ~ broadcasting, charisma, display (pouring out the energy) / think of animals doing the dance/spread/strut to attract the other gender

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    I think this helps a lot.
    There seems to be this impression that being sx instinct means you are are deep and sentimental and passionate or something. But to me sx just seems selfish and disruptive...uncaring, even, in a way.
    Makes me think of red decks in Magic the Gathering. http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Red
    The overall strategy with red decks is to disrupt with fire and goblins and such. (I personally always preferred green decks above all, though red can be fun. Just gets redundant.)

    Anywayyy...I think this is super helpful @siuntal.

    I have similar views as you, @lungs, I think...about sx-first seeming less intimate. To me it just seems like a volcano erupting and creating chaos. I don't really see what is so "merging" about sx. To me, sx seems anything but "merging." Like "This is me; idgaf how it affects you." Which...doesn't seem intimate at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenryrr View Post
    I think this helps a lot.
    There seems to be this impression that being sx instinct means you are are deep and sentimental and passionate or something. But to me sx just seems selfish and disruptive...uncaring, even, in a way.
    Makes me think of red decks in Magic the Gathering. http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Red
    The overall strategy with red decks is to disrupt with fire and goblins and such. (I personally always preferred green decks above all, though red can be fun. Just gets redundant.)

    Anywayyy...I think this is super helpful @siuntal.

    I have similar views as you, @lungs, I think...about sx-first seeming less intimate. To me it just seems like a volcano erupting and creating chaos. I don't really see what is so "merging" about sx. To me, sx seems anything but "merging." Like "This is me; idgaf how it affects you." Which...doesn't seem intimate at all.
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    Sx is Italian. Check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    the literature tends to talk about sx-firsts being so focused on bonding or whatever and it confused me when i compared it to actual people. because something i'd noticed is that sx-firsts can, to me, seem kinda - the word that comes to mind is slutty, but i don't mean that literally. i mean in their energy, or the feelers they put out for connection. like they'll find it anywhere and its not really as special. and what i read here coalesced with that impression, like its more of a selfish thing about their own feeling of intensity and resonance and not about actual bonding or realness. like they're more hungry for it so they'll just eat whatever is sitting around.
    Interesting, I described a similar experience not long ago where I was so caught up in the energy of the moment that I didn't have time to really internalize how much I didn't give a shit about the other guy.


    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    it makes me think maybe sx-seconds are probably where its at for me re: comfort in relationships.
    I think I appreciate comfort in my relationships too, but I find that there has to be something evolutory about the relationships I'm in. Like there has to be some sort of morphing in energy, meaning, significance, whatever in order for me to remain invested. Like once I get to a point where "well, this is it, this is what the thing is, tada" I just find it difficult to keep it that way and need something more.

    I guess that's what kinda gets me about Sp-primary types, their relationships with people seem, at least on the surface, relatively simple and uncomplicated; or at least they tend to strive for simplicity in that way. It can almost seem like nothing more than cohabitation with the occasional "hey how you doing."

    Also I lol'd at @fenryrr's MTG comparison. Now I want to look at more of these descriptions.
    Last edited by Galen; 12-16-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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    Can you do all that SX first stuff while laying in bed depressed? If so, I am totally SX first!
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I think I appreciate comfort in my relationships too, but I find that there has to be something evolutory about the relationships I'm in. Like there has to be some sort of morphing in energy, meaning, significance, whatever in order for me to remain invested. Like once I get to a point where "well, this is it, this is what the thing is, tada" I just find it difficult to keep it that way and need something more.

    I guess that's what kinda gets me about Sp-primary types, their relationships with people seem, at least on the surface, relatively simple and uncomplicated; or at least they tend to strive for simplicity in that way. It can almost seem like nothing more than cohabitation with the occasional "hey how you doing."
    !!!! yussss

    i was discussing this the other day with LSI sx/so friend how it's important for relationships to retain a constant sense of struggle; of fighting to win something; keeping that "spark" alive; because once you reach that leveled state of stagnancy (when you finally get it), you get bored and start looking for something else. he agreed w/ it, he has the tendency to do exactly that as do i myself. i never thought to correlate it with sx-first.

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    As for Sx-last types being called cold or impersonal, I rebut with this:

    They mostly seem impersonal and distant solely from an Sx perspective, which is why I think it's so important to have a detached understanding of how the instincts work. Most all the Sx-last types I've known in my life have made very clear attempts at bonding with me; however, their reasons for doing so differ vastly from mine. What I find So > Sx types doing regularly and with greater ease than myself is building and maintaining a sort of personal support system out of the people they know and trust. They aren't actively seeking group acceptance by default: they're cultivating their own personally-tailored group from people they already connect with on some level. So they'll be most keen on catching up with people, seeing how their lives are developing, etc all for the sake of maintaining those security bonds and ensuring themselves that their support teams are there for them whenever the time arises that they're needed.

    This is an aspect of life that I as an So-last tend to ignore, and honestly find a bit annoying and draining to do. There's something in me that loathes the idea of reconnecting bonds and connections I've had with others: old high school friends, teachers, colleagues, etc. Once they're out of my life in an immediate sense, I find myself easily forgetting about them and moving on. The only exceptions to this are people who I consider to be my best friends, whose connection I feel most strongly about in an addictive magnetic sort of way. The thought of going back to my old high school and seeing all the faces of long ago, even if I did enjoy being around them at the time, fills me with dread because I have no immediate connection with anybody there anymore. I can hear them now, seeing my face and going "omg it's galen! We must catch up," and I just kinda shudder internally at the thought, as it seems like a pointless task perpetrated as nothing more than a cultural ritual of going through the motions. In this way I imagine a lot of So first types conversely seeing me as a very cold and distant person, because I have such difficulty engaging with them in a manner they expect.

    This isn't a point of pride btw, it's a problem I can easily see come back to bite me in the ass when it comes to matters like finding a job or search for a relationship. It's difficult for So lasts to just bite the bullet and make connections with people, as it's it's simply not a strong internal priority no matter how much they know intellectually how important an aspect of life it may be. Instead they'll likely favor going with whoever they feel the best immediate chemistry with and trying to keep those bonds strong for the future. It's less practical to create a support system in this way compared to So types relative ease in branching out (unless he/she experiences self-doubt problems), but it's the most natural way they/we know how to do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Interesting, I described a similar experience not long ago where I was so caught up in the energy of the moment that I didn't have time to really internalize how much I didn't give a shit about the other guy.
    hahaha yeah. dsjfklasjlk;ajf. don't touch me if you don't mean it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    !!!! yussss

    i was discussing this the other day with LSI sx/so friend how it's important for relationships to retain a constant sense of struggle; of fighting to win something; keeping that "spark" alive; because once you reach that leveled state of stagnancy (when you finally get it), you get bored and start looking for something else. he agreed w/ it, he has the tendency to do exactly that as do i myself. i never thought to correlate it with sx-first.
    this concept isn't lost on me at all. but then what - manufacture a fight? play stupid games? are there any HONEST ways to achieve this?
    do you ever give yourself time to have a celebratory victory party and actually enjoy it before kicking things off again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    this concept isn't lost on me at all. but then what - manufacture a fight? play stupid games? are there any HONEST ways to achieve this?
    do you ever give yourself time to have a celebratory victory party and actually enjoy it before kicking things off again?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he necessarily means that he needs tension within the relationship itself. I think so long as there's some sort of external struggle outside of either of you that you're both aiming to overcome, then you both will learn and grow together from the experience and the relationship will become that much more tight. I can't imagine needing to have fights within a relationship, that's just a set-up for disaster and unnecessary drama.
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    mmm not necessarily external struggles, although that makes sense in the context as well. what i was referring to was more of an internal struggle (if not interpersonal) where you don't feel like... you already have everything at once, you know? like there's still something to be achieved, something to be experienced/known/felt. idk how to describe it. in the most basic sense, it's having a slant, a direction, where you're moving to, like for instance striving for a elusive sense of "becoming" one but never really reaching that point (because it's impossible). but that sort of struggle to be closer and closer keeps driving you and moving the relationship forward. (does that make sense?) unless, of course, the sense of ~mystery~ is gone, or the spark is extinguished, and you just want to gtfo. i'm not even sure what i'm saying and part of this may be influenced by my current life circumstances so take this with a grain of salt. when i say "struggle", i don't mean conflict although conflict can often help the relationship grow sometimes and sometimes like galen says, it's a set-up for disaster. what i mean is this almost adolescent drive to seek out newness in your partner, the feeling that there's still something to discover, when they still have the ability to surprise you. i guess with the right person it just clicks and you keep finding reasons to be intrigued and inspired, so it doesn't need to be manufactured or artificial. i'll rationalize my inability to stay in relationships by saying at a certain point they just stopped intriguing my fancy, and i gave up. i got bored. it did nothing for me. break up, move on. at this point i'm just talking about myself but feel free to frame this in typological terms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I don’t know. I might expect that sort of thing to naturally arise, but if if was an explicit expectation that there be a constant struggle in the relationship, I’d get pissy and resentful towards the person for it.
    Yeah, well, plus there's a lot of things that can make a relationship exciting rather than fighting: travelling together, new exciting activities, new places, making friends with new people, etc.
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    i was not talking about fighting, jesus christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    i was not talking about fighting, jesus christ.
    Okay, so it's not so clear to me what you are talking about. (being honest here)

    If someone "challenges" me, I will tend to fight back. What else?
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    Last edited by silke; 11-30-2016 at 06:42 PM.

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    I have like 700 responses to that post but
    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    SX - dynamicmism of creative being - time felt as chrios.
    I'm gonna need a definition of this because Google yields a bunch of bible jabber
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    I think I'm an So/Sx with a developed Self-Pres instinct, although it sometimes feels like the other way around.

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    This (partly) reaffirms the stacking I determined for myself ages ago but then forgot how qualified it was - it's difficult for me to see myself as Sx first or even second (although if I'm an enneagram 9, that may affect things).

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    Good stuff. I like how they explain the one-to-one of each instinct. I think people thinking they value "one-to-one" and assuming that makes them sexual is the cause of a lot of mistypings.
    Russ said about 50 percent of people who think they're sexual aren't sx in most cases, but are misunderstanding the two instincts, which is often not their fault but the fault of poor information.
    It was mentioned that many people who thought they were soc-last, later find out they are soc-middle or soc-first once they actually understand the instinct. Social instinct is not about "liking to be in groups" or liking to socialize.
    Yeah, this makes sense and I noticed this tendency for others to type themselves as social last and sx first especially when they first get into the instincts. There's this focus of sx being about sexiness, relationships and one-to-one and social being about wanting to be popular, being outgoing, sociable, liking groups, etc.

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    "about 50 percent of people who think they're sexual aren't sx in most cases"


    you can find such examples on this forum, if you scan threads. There are people whose pics are well known (and obviously look like Sx last) who type as SLE, LSE, LIE or whatever Sx/so. I don't wanna be mean and give names.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    There are people whose pics are well known (and obviously look like Sx last)
    Is it really all that obvious though? I'd like to get your impression of what Sx-last (or first for that matter) looks like. I have my own composites and impressions, but they're kind of outdated and need to be revised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    ~ awareness of "kairos" time - sense of it being the right time for something in a qualitative sense
    I never took the time to look this up, but I like the shit out of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Is it really all that obvious though? I'd like to get your impression of what Sx-last (or first for that matter) looks like. I have my own composites and impressions, but they're kind of outdated and need to be revised.
    if you're curious, I'll take my time for some examples as soon as I can. Though I agree with many of your composites (expression-wise or through the energy they project).

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    if you're curious, I'll take my time for some examples as soon as I can. Though I agree with many of your composites (expression-wise or through the energy they project).
    I'm just interested in gauging other people's legitimate reactions to the instincts, and seeing if there's any real quantitative basis for those reactions. You don't have to make any extensive lists if it's too much work.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  36. #36
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    Nice article!

    Looks like i'm So/Sp
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Nice article!

    Looks like i'm So/Sp
    doubt it

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    sx first can be exhausting.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    doubt it
    Break down this Analysis, Rose.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Break down this Analysis, Rose.
    you seem sx/so as vibe, your behavior is kind of aggressive and stuff. I don't have time for a more minute analysis now.

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