Enneagram behaviors that correlate to the functions

[Absurd]

I just thought I'd throw in, for both Ashton's lengthy post just above, and for DJA's description of 8

We agree on something..

[Azure Flame]

@Ashton... makes sense. It was interesting to see it spelled out so clearly for me, and I appreciate your effort with that. I'm starting to see why 6 makes sense.

Under those descriptions, I could very well be a 6.

Nevermind my mesomorphic body, the strength and willpower, the "apparent" fearlessness or need to be in control of everything at all times. The comments of my friends that I am a "Closet Tyrant."

See, to me it feels like we're really struggling to find any reason I'm a 6. But under those descriptions, yes. I suppose 6 could make sense. I just refuse to believe I'm scared of everything, have no willpower, and am weak, simply because you keep fucking telling me I am.

Do I want help? Absolutely. Matter of fact recent events have proven that to me. I suppose this is 6ish. Yet the Palmer descriptions also say exactly the same thing for 8's. I want help, I want to be dependant. Go listen to the Enneagram Recordings I posted here and tell me I don't sound like an 8.

some things to listen for in the E8 recording:
-stirring up trouble when I'm bored
-never giving up
-pain in the ass as an employee
-assertive

So to this, it really feels as if we're describing different systems. or if there are different schools of thought. You see, SLE's Fe hidden agenda is to "to be loved." The Iron giant, Thor, Rambo, the main character in my book... they're all lost, directionless behemoths. To me, it feels like we're really splitting hairs to make me fit into the 6 category. Really splitting hairs.

Where does the socionics end and the enneagram begin?

[Galen]

Nevermind my mesomorphic body, the strength and willpower, the "apparent" fearlessness or need to be in control of everything at all times. The comments of my friends that I am a "Closet Tyrant."

Well to be fair, my dad is also a 6, likely 6w7, and all my life I've seen him as like a "closet tyrant," always wanting to be in control of household affairs and insisting that everything is in the order he wants it to be. I long considered him to be an 8w9 because of this, but his motives and overall affect just don't match up to any 8 fixations or traits.

See, to me it feels like we're really struggling to find any reason I'm a 6. But under those descriptions, yes. I suppose 6 could make sense. I just refuse to believe I'm scared of everything, have no willpower, and am weak, simply because you keep fucking telling me I am.

Nobody's telling you that you're weak or have no willpower. That is not the crux of being E6, it's simply one possible side route that some 6s go down. I know 6s who fit this bill perfectly, others who are the exact opposite (such as my dad), and of course others who go down a more moderated middle path, choosing to neither habitually cave into fear or unconsciously lash out against it. I mean I certainly don't consider myself to be weak or powerless to every outside force around me, and I wouldn't expect other 6s on here feel that way about themselves, nor would I think others see them as such. I think once your conception of E6 as the cowardly passive puppy dog disintegrates, you'll have a better understanding of a 6s motivations and relate it to it that much more.

IME 6s are far more likely to care about "looking" or coming off as vulnerable, the fear is reasoned and cerebral, and there are very distinctive lines of development where this fear stretches out to. For 8s, the fear is highly internalized and gut-based, felt rather than thought, there's almost a visceral feeling of comfort/discomfort that guides their decisions. But I suppose, without being stuck on semantics, what you said was vague enough to apply either way.

Very true in my experience. I often catch myself in times where I'm inadvertently submitting my own will to other people and thinking "wow why did you do that, stop it, keep in control of yourself next time."

[Azure Flame]

hmm. ok so if my definition of 8 is wrong, what would be a good generalization to replace it with?

[Galen]

hmm. ok so if my definition of 8 is wrong, what would be a good generalization to replace it with?

In the last thread you had about "why am I not an 8" I talked about 8s having characteristically strong personal ego boundaries that delineates them from other people, and I still think this is really the biggest defining character of an 8. They place high value on their gut instincts to the extent of ignoring other facets of themselves (Rejection + Gut triads, read about 'em here). This isn't the same as intuition about other's motives or future events, but rather where it applies to decision making in the moment, what it is I want at any given time. So a lot of what drives their core motivations pertain to people or events outside of their personal boundaries who try to impede on their acting upon what their guts are telling them they want.

As for how this compares to 6, here's a brief comparison of the two I pulled off enneagraminstitute:

Sixes and Eights are aggressive, although only the Eight is an entirely aggressive personality. Sixes react both to their fears and to other people and constantly oscillate from one state to another, from Level to Level. They are ambivalent and passive-aggressive, evasive, and contradictory. In contrast, Eights have solid egos and formidable wills; they keep pushing others until they get them what they want. There is little softness in Eights and even less tendency to comply with the wishes of anyone else. They have no desire to be liked or to ingratiate themselves with others. Rather than look to others for protection, Eights offer protection (patronage) in return for hard work and loyalty.

As different as these two types are, they are nevertheless similar at Level 6–but only at this Level. At this stage both Sixes (The Authoritarian Rebel) and in Eights (The Confrontational Adversary) show similar aggressive traits–belligerence, defiance, a willingness to intimidate others, a quick and threatening temper, the threat of violence, hatred of others, and so forth. However, Eights arrive at this stage as a result of constantly escalating their pressure on others to get what they want until they have become highly confrontational and combative. Sixes arrive at their state from a very different route–in reaction to their vacillation and dependency. Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore; Eights become aggressive to push others even more.

The essential difference is that Sixes eventually will yield and their defenses will crumble if enough pressure is applied to them, whereas opposition to Eights only encourages them to remain defiant and to meet their adversary with renewed aggression.

Both types at this Level can be dangerous; ironically, Sixes are probably more dangerous at this stage than Eights since they are anxious and may strike out at someone impulsively or irrationally. On the other hand, average Eights are more rational: they take the odds of success into account at every move. If and when they finally do become violent, however, Eights are more dangerous than Sixes because they are more ruthless, and the momentum of their inflated egos makes them feel that they can and must press onward until their enemies are utterly destroyed. Eights eventually become megalomaniacs (and may be destroyed after they have destroyed others). By contrast, unhealthy Sixes eventually become self-defeating (and may be destroyed by their own fear).

[nanashi]

Edited:
I apologize for making a horrible thread. I layed it out as a statement of absolute belief when that wasn't my intention. I'll try this again.

Do you think its possible that some traits of enneagram personalities are incorrectly attributed to enneagram? For example: if enneagram say something like, 8's have expansive energy, I start to wonder what socionics functions would also describe a sort of expansive energy. I start to think, Se rises to meet challenges, and Fe also has a sort of energy thing to it.

So do you think its possible some enneagram traits are attributed to enneagram when they shouldn't be? What do you think those things are, and why?

A) I think that could absolutely be so--that the occasional internet posters conflate enneagram types and functions. However, I do think that it's fine to say certain enneagrams are more likely to include people with certain more frequently used functions, since E8s may be more likely to have an extroverted and rough types (so Te, Se +Ti, Se +Fi, ILE) as opposed to introverted and socially cooperative.

B) DJ Arendee had a perfectly Ni-seeking question, imo. I have an ESTp E8 friend who, if in a social and trusting and vulnerable enough place, would be fine asking a question like DJ Arendee has done here. It's fine to suggest alternate types and have a discussion with someone explaining your confusion regarding their self typing, but typing from posts isn't typing with the whole person in front of one, and, for instance, I've been typed as ESFJ (my conflicting type), ENFP, and ENTP by other members, who literally had JUST started reading my posts a few days before. And...some of them? they were rude. There's no need to demean a poster. Frankly, DJ Arendee does seem reminiscent to me of my E8 friend. She's kind of withdrawing occasionally (maybe the w7 anxiety) while also being an insanely steamrolley person. And I have an E8 friend who critiques their E8w9 dad (who was wrong & threatening and physically pushed the kid around and unfair). Yes, a six may want to trust a protecting figure, but pointing out that a parent did not protecting you can just be challenging the social image of the parent.

[Jenna]

Dj, you seem super fucking 6. It seems to me that you feel like there's some kind of shame in being a 6, based on some idea that you have about 6s, and 8 is kind of the next closest thing to a cp6 (as well as being, in BnD terms, the "tough straight man" type, so more appealing).

8s are not contradictory like you said above. They have no secret desire to be submissive, in fact it is probably one of the main things they do NOT want. You also said that, when it comes to relationships, you look to others for help. An 8 just will not do that, because they are seen as "in control". Actually,

8's are strong, yet easily hurt and internally weak. Independant, yet secretly seeking submission and dependance. Scared of looking vulnerable, yet appearing scared of nothing. Aggressive, yet secretly very submissive. With the 8, most of these more hidden aspects are revealed when the 8 chooses to reveal them.

None of that is true for 8s, except being internally weak/vulnerable. You are describing a 6. 8s are no bullshit, they don't have "hidden aspects". It's just them, right there, as if every part of them is exposed to the world (kind of like the expression "wearing your heart on your sleeve" but instead it's...all of them?). I'm not sure if this last part made sense, I have this idea in my head and I can't find the words I want to articulate it so I feel like I'm just saying whatever pops in my head. :| They are straight-forward and very easy to read, unlike many 6s.

One thing about this forum is that the people here, with some exceptions, tend to be accepting of self-typings (which can be detrimental to our typing of others if the person isn't typed correctly, but whatever). That in mind, everyone is telling you that you are not an 8, which imo is kind of saying a lot. Of course sometimes consensus can be wrong, but it should still be considered, especially because we are all in agreement about you being 6.

Anyways, I'm dozing off as I'm typing. I wanted to add a little more, maybe I will later, maybe I won't, who knows with me lol. This was just my 2 cents

[Absurd]

8s are not contradictory like you said above. They have no secret desire to be submissive, in fact it is probably one of the main things they do NOT want.

Yup. At least it so says in literature.

[Gilly]

Being an attachment triad type sucks. You think people are trying to manipulate or belittle you when they are just giving their opinions sometimes. Paranoia

[Gilly]

@DJ Arendee cp6 and 8 are easy to confuse because they are both usually more aggressive than normal personalities, who actively resist being controlled. The difference is that 8s are kind of completely cut off from their feeling of security and safety, and are on a sort of lifelong search for something that can bypass their instinctually defensive nature. For 8s, defensiveness is something that is not paranoid, or thought-out, or even really thought about; it's just their modus operandum, no big deal.

For contrast, 6s are a head triad type, and are therefore more likely to be on a quest for existential security, meaning that they actively engage their internal emotional self more, and are not emotionally cut-off in the same way as 8s.

DJ the reason it's so obvious that you are not an 8 is because you lack the dense casualness of 8s: if you observe Ashton and Absurd, the two most obvious 8s on the forum, you will notice that they are both kind of deadpan and very casual about everything. You can also track a kind of distance between when they enter conflict, and when they actually become emotionally engaged. You, on the other hand, are much more emotionally engaged in general, and come across as less dense, more lighthearted and "free." Some 8s are very emotional; my mom is an 8 and she can be very demonstrative and playful, but she also has a cut-off point where if she feels at all challenged or threatened or like there will be any kind of need for her awareness, whether its someone saying something that contradicts her in the tiniest way, or an actual argument or threat, she kind of walls off against the outside world and takes a sort of neutrally defensive stance on everything. Entranced or disintegrated 8s are walled off all the time, and are just kind of resigned to the fact that they are alone in the world. You just generally seem more light-hearted than this, more open to the world, maybe paranoid or defensive in some ways but in a consciously adaptive way, rather than in an instinctively defensive way; with 8's it's like a switch gets flipped and the emotion circuit is cut off, their energy level actually decreases at the beginning of a conflict and slowly ramps up as conflict intensifies, whereas a 6's energy will usually spike when they become engaged because it piques their anxiety, and they will attack all out at first, then reign in their energy as they regain control and recollect to mentally assess the situation. Both are "reactive" styles, because there is a definite "emotional" reaction to any kind of challenge or conflict, it's just that the emotion meter goes in opposite directions.

[Gilly]

@DJ Arendee I'm still fluctuating between 3 and 6 for you, you don't seem to be all butthurt about this process of being interrogated, you are actually pretty buoyant and seem like you genuinely want to find the right answer, but just aren't quite convinced yet. You don't strike me as being as touchy about having your judgment questioned as a 6; you seem more proud than anything, so maybe you are a 3 after all.

For the record, I am a 3, and also identify with a lot of 8 traits. You probably have 8 in your trifix.

[Galen]

Basically what happened is at some point in their early upbringing, the E8 saw itself as very alone in the world and decided that there was going to be no one but themselves to depend on. I've said before that the psychological landscape of the E8 would tend to look existentially bleak (esp. at lower health levels) to outsiders, harshly colored by heavy themes of cynical mitigation, minimization, rejection, detachment; I think if you can imagine a kind of inverted E5 turned inside out with a strongly externalized rather than internalized focus, then you've a decent approximation of E8.

...

I don't know exactly what happens formatively which makes the E6 this way (other than what's described of the parental orientation), but from observing people I know who are E6s their typological 'condition' does look a bit odd from my vantage point. It's said that the E6 is the most cut off from the Gut/Instinct center (1°-center for E891), and I suspect that's crucial to understanding the etiology of what's going on with this type.

I don't really buy the notion that enneatypes are formed through specific life experiences and conditions; were this the case, shouldn't there be an equal distribution of enneatypes among sociotypes/MBTI/etc? Intuitively, these early childhood experience descriptions (I assume these were pulled from here?) seems to me more like a case of hindsight being 20/20, where someone who already possessed any enneagram fixation all his life would naturally better retain childhood memories where such a fixation was compromised or seemingly attacked than anything else.

E6 by contrast will have weakened, porously fluctuating ego boundaries (see Attachment triad); the delineations separating their 'I' from external influences tend to become more haphazardly blurred into states of chaotic semipermeability. Which might make the E6 feel like they're in an ongoing struggle to maintain a defined sense of self-possession, under persistent threat from possible infiltrating influences which inflame and aggravate that condition of cognitive dissonance mentioned earlier.

As a side-note, this also brings up a good point about what's said about stubbornness in the E6. In my experience as a dirty smelly 6, I find that in states of lessened emotional health where I want to regain control over my own ego boundaries, instead of actually reinforcing the line of scrimmage by becoming more in touch with what I want, I'll instead more arbitrarily decide in my head what it is that I want or what I believe and just stick with it for a while, regardless of how much sense it makes to me cognitively. This gives me an illusory sense of control over my own destiny and decision-making skills when I don't really have them in the first place, but at the expense of purposeful control over myself.

Being an attachment triad type sucks. You think people are trying to manipulate or belittle you when they are just giving their opinions sometimes. Paranoia

Pretty much, lol. When I was younger this was a real soft spot for me: back when I first got into writing music and I faced the slightest bit of criticism I'd lash out into "STFU THIS IS ART IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ANALYZED YOU HAVE TO FEEEEEEL IT DFAJOADSJADSFJ." It's been a sort of perpetual battle for me, trying to quell my inner reactivity sensor and tell myself that they're either trying to help me out or just joking and mean nothing by it. Remembering this has helped exponentially not just in my skills, but in my overall well being and interactions with others.

[Galen]

Also I'm still waiting on that enneagram subforum. Chop chop.

[Azure Flame]

@DJ Arendee I'm still fluctuating between 3 and 6 for you, you don't seem to be all butthurt about this process of being interrogated, you are actually pretty buoyant and seem like you genuinely want to find the right answer, but just aren't quite convinced yet. You don't strike me as being as touchy about having your judgment questioned as a 6; you seem more proud than anything, so maybe you are a 3 after all.

For the record, I am a 3, and also identify with a lot of 8 traits. You probably have 8 in your trifix.

Thank you for noticing. I identify with 8, and I'm fairly set in it but if I am a six I am actually open to hearing why. Although 3 and 6 are in the same attitude triangle thing so I suppose 3 is possible in there.
@Ashton
As for being a 6, there are some descriptions that say 8's are "big picture." I am not big picture in the socionics sense, but I am holographic panoramic, and like to see the complete 360 degree version of whatever it is I'm analyzing, and I like to know what is happening around me at all times, (go check out the SLE-Ti description). There are descriptions that say 6's "bounce like a ping pong ball from one immediate interest to the next" (Se ring a bell?) It almost makes me feel like there are no SLE 8's if we were to go by that description. I've met other ESTp's who are WAY more impulsive than I, but Se still is interested in what is current and immediate.

I define 6 as having a constant anxiety from day to day that they are aware of. Some worthwhile examples are my mom and my brother, who take st johns wart to live a normal sane fucking life. Yeah... that's not me. sorry. You can sit here and tell me that is, but it's not. Believe me, I've sat here and analyzed myself to death, searching for some "hidden anxiety" that people keep talking about. I don't see it. If I did, I would. I would have picked up on it by now. But I don't. The end, end of story, not an anxious person. Done, stop saying I am. If you persist, I'm going to assume is projection on your end, and a pitiful attempt to deny your own insecurity and your own possible 6 typing that you hide from, and you would cling to any hairline split that would prove to yourself that I am not what you glorify. I think its time you stop bringing it up.

I define 8 as being strong, not scared on a daily basis, decisive leader that others look up to for not being afraid of anything. This was me in bootcamp. In the trainers eyes I was a cancer. They'd look like fools screaming at me and nothing happened. The rest of my classmates, suddenly, were no longer afraid of the trainers. oops.

Galen has provided 1 fact as to why I'm not an 8. (my ego boundaries aren't firm enough). Its a good observation but... its really hard for me to give that any weight because I've never read anything that said that was a defining 8 characteristic, unless you'd like to show me somewhere. Until then, I cannot accept that information.

Ashton on the other hand has pointed out the ping pong ball thing, and the fact that I feel like I'm constantly going to get in trouble. Both valid points. The "constant fear of getting in trouble" was caused by the military. Because I actually did (I had my summer vacation taken away after planning a trip to celebrate 5 years of naval academy. I wasn't too happy.). Its called, "psychological conditioning" and I suffered from something called P.A.S.S. while I was in the military. Prolonged adaptive stress syndrome. Primary symptoms include hypervigilance, anxiety, cognitive impairment and weakened creativity. But these are only a couple of things I identify with for 6. If I typed myself as a type just because I identified with 2 things, I'd be a 7... adventurous and fun loving. Or I'd be a 9... aesthetic and tranquil. Or I'd be a 3... goal oriented and competitive. (I used to type myself as 7 actually). I can't settle for 6. Not enough things I identify with.

If anyone thinks CP6 is just another way of saying '8-like but not as grounded,' then we're really looking at 2 different systems.

Perhaps someone could should show me some SLE CP6's.

@Ashton @Galen @Gilly
do you guys learn all your stuff from typewatch?

[Galen]

Thank you for noticing. I identify with 8, and I'm fairly set in it but if I am a six I am actually open to hearing why. Although 3 and 6 are in the same attitude triangle thing so I suppose 3 is possible in there.

WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU WHY FOR THREE WHOLE FUCKING PAGES

I define 6 as having a constant anxiety from day to day that they are aware of. Some worthwhile examples are my mom and my brother, who take st johns wart to live a normal sane fucking life. Yeah... that's not me. sorry.

For the hundred thousandth time, this is not what defines the E6. Have you been reading anything that anybody's been saying in this entire thread?

You can sit here and tell me that is, but it's not. Believe me, I've sat here and analyzed myself to death, searching for some "hidden anxiety" that people keep talking about. I don't see it. If I did, I would. I would have picked up on it by now. But I don't. The end, end of story, not an anxious person. Done, stop saying I am. If you persist, I'm going to assume is projection on your end, and a pitiful attempt to deny your own insecurity and your own possible 6 typing that you hide from, and you would cling to any hairline split that would prove to yourself that I am not what you glorify. I think its time you stop bringing it up.

And again we're back to manufacturing paranoid intentions for other people, classic E6 staple.

I define 8 as being strong, not scared on a daily basis, decisive leader that others look up to for not being afraid of anything. This was me in bootcamp. In the trainers eyes I was a cancer. They'd look like fools screaming at me and nothing happened. The rest of my classmates, suddenly, were no longer afraid of the trainers. oops.

Okay here's the problem: it's impossible to define enneatypes by a few character traits taken out of context, as you've been doing this whole time.

Ashton on the other hand has pointed out the ping pong ball thing, and the fact that I feel like I'm constantly going to get in trouble. Both valid points. The "constant fear of getting in trouble" was caused by the military. Because I actually did (I had my summer vacation taken away after planning a trip to celebrate 5 years of naval academy. I wasn't too happy.). Its called, "psychological conditioning" and I suffered from something called P.A.S.S. while I was in the military. Prolonged adaptive stress syndrome. Primary symptoms include hypervigilance, anxiety, cognitive impairment and weakened creativity. But these are only a couple of things I identify with for 6. If I typed myself as a type just because I identified with 2 things, I'd be a 7... adventurous and fun loving. Or I'd be a 9... aesthetic and tranquil. Or I'd be a 3... goal oriented and competitive. (I used to type myself as 7 actually). I can't settle for 6. Not enough things I identify with.

wtf, this is a pretty clear-as-day contradiction with what you say about "I define 8 as being strong, not scared on a daily basis, decisive leader that others look up to for not being afraid of anything." If you're looking for "things" to identify with then you're going to connect with every contextless character trait that your self-conception accepts as yourself.

[Galen]

@Ashton @Galen @Gilly
do you guys learn all your stuff from typewatch?

I've developed my own sense of how this works primarily off of fitzel.ca for the various triads and ocean-moonshine, although the latter is now lost to the archives. If their E8 description was still intact I'd be referencing it. Plus my own observations, which I reference extensively and ultimately trust more than I do random outside references.

[Azure Flame]

For the hundred thousandth time, this is not what defines the E6. Have you been reading anything that anybody's been saying in this entire thread?

Ok, then how the hell am I suppose to interpret this? (from the same exact website ashton is claiming as valid. And if you tell me this website isn't valid, you're going to invalidate ashton's entire argument.)

Sixes are always aware of their anxieties and are always looking for ways to construct “social security” bulwarks against them. If Sixes feel that they have sufficient back up, they can move forward with some degree of confidence. But if that crumbles, they become anxious and self-doubting, reawakening their Basic Fear. (“I’m on my own! What am I going to do now?”) A good question for Sixes might therefore be: “When will I know that I have enough security?” Or, to get right to the heart of it, “What is security?” Without Essential inner guidance and the deep sense of support that it brings, Sixes are constantly struggling to find firm ground.

Sixes attempt to build a network of trust over a background of unsteadiness and fear. They are often filled with a nameless anxiety and then try to find or create reasons why. Wanting to feel that there is something solid and clear-cut in their lives, they can become attached to explanations or positions that seem to explain their situation. Because “belief” (trust, faith, convictions, positions) is difficult for Sixes to achieve, and because it is so important to their sense of stability, once they establish a trustworthy belief, they do not easily question it, nor do they want others to do so. The same is true for individuals in a Six’s life: once Sixes feel they can trust someone, they go to great lengths to maintain connections with the person who acts as a sounding board, a mentor, or a regulator for the Six’s emotional reactions and behavior. They therefore do everything in their power to keep their affiliations going. (“If I don’t trust myself, then I have to find something in this world I can trust.”)

6's are anxious. Anxious anxious anxious anxious! Look at you, you little anxious 6. How do you like it? Are you an anxious person? This says you are. You have the 6 tag, therefore this applies to you, does it not?

[Azure Flame]

If their E8 description was still intact I'd be referencing it. Plus my own observations, which I reference extensively and ultimately trust more than I do random outside references.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

[Galen]

6's are anxious. Anxious anxious anxious anxious! Look at you, you little anxious 6. How do you like it? Are you an anxious person? This says you are. You have the 6 tag, therefore this applies to you, does it not?

Not about every insignificant detail, but in times of great stress anxiety is my go-to state. I, however, am not in a perpetual state of paranoia about other people's motivations and am not creating strawmen arguments in my head as preparation for what other people might be (but aren't) arguing.

Actually now that you bring it up, your escapades with splitting hairs and overthinking about this ESI girl you've been obsessing over sure sounds like constructing security bulwarks and planning-ahead backup scenarios. For all your talk about E8s as strong and decisive leaders, you sure are indecisive and overly cognitive about this little gem.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

And?

[Gilly]

I think it's pretty stupid that you guys are pigeonholing him into E6. He really isn't acting like one. I agree he's probably not an 8 but I think you guys are both quick to label people 6, and it's not just him being paranoid, because you are both going about it in a belittling, arrogant way that obviously isn't going to produce any results. I would suggest you both shut up.

@Ashton @Galen

Oh btw DJ, they tried to pin me as a 6 in a similarly bullshit fashion a while back, so don't take it personally; they are just reacting to your non-8-ness and giving their default alternative typing of E6 without really thinking or bothering to ask you questions. I would just ignore them if I were you, because it's not going to stop.
@DJ Arendee

[Galen]

I think it's pretty stupid that you guys are pigeonholing him into E6. He really isn't acting like one. I agree he's probably not an 8 but I think you guys are both quick to label people 6, and it's not just him being paranoid, because you are both going about it in a belittling, arrogant way that obviously isn't going to produce any results. I would suggest you both shut up.

@Ashton @Galen

I don't see myself as quick to type people E6. I started off trying to explain my position in a rational way, as you've seen in other threads, but his stubbornness and endless nonsensical reductionism gets frustrating real quick.

Oh btw DJ, they tried to pin me as a 6 in a similarly bullshit fashion a while back, so don't take it personally; they are just reacting to your non-8-ness and giving their default alternative typing of E6 without really thinking or bothering to ask you questions. I would just ignore them if I were you, because it's not going to stop.
@DJ Arendee

*They*? I don't recall me ever typing you as a 6. I think Ashton humored it for a bit, but that's about it.

[Gilly]

I don't see myself as quick to type people E6. I started off trying to explain my position in a rational way, as you've seen in other threads, but his stubbornness and endless nonsensical reductionism gets frustrating real quick.

Eh idk it just seems like a typing that gets thrown around thoughtlessly. I remember you typing Ezra as a 6, too.

*They*? I don't recall me ever typing you as a 6. I think Ashton humored it for a bit, but that's about it.

Oh my bad. No offense but you're kind of an extension of Ashton in my mind.

[Galen]

Eh idk it just seems like a typing that gets thrown around thoughtlessly. I remember you typing Ezra as a 6, too.

I wasn't even around when Ezra was posting (?)

Oh my bad. No offense but you're kind of an extension of Ashton in my mind.

Yes, I can tell.

[Gilly]

I wasn't even around when Ezra was posting (?)

Really? I could swear...huh.

[Galen]

Just one more note about 6s and anxiety:

Anxiety does not have to be a debilitating state of mind. I know for lots of people with clinical anxiety it can be a psychologically painful and traumatic experience, but this is a separate condition from how it exists as a base-line for E6. I find that in my case, anxiety is more a call to action than a "run away" instinct. Anxiety is never caused by "nothing," and for the same token it's not caused by "everything." Anxiety to me is a dissatisfaction with the status quo, envisioning shit that could go wrong in the future, and it creates a hunger that pushes me to ensure that all the negative possibilities don't come to fruition. This doesn't mean I'm sitting in a corner in a cold sweat with shaky hands and shifty eyes, trying to ward off the demons before they get to me in a paranoid bout of schizophrenia. It means I'm putting myself out there and doing things, proving to myself that I can create my own destiny and finding within myself real strength and courage for when actual problems come up. Fear does not necessitate cowardice.

I have a story to accompany this, maybe I'll write it down.

[Gilly]

Anyways. DJ if you study E3 I think you will probably find a closer fit for your Etype, which includes most of the things you seem to like about yourself and see in E8 descriptions, but it might also take a little self-humbling.

[Absurd]

Holly molly and goodness gracious I'm going to enter this thread again(?), soonish.

[Gilly]

If enneagram was heritable, I would be a gut type...my parents are 1 and 8. I tend to think it's more of a melting pot of more basic genetic traits and how they interact with our experiences.

[Galen]

Interesting… I can't do that very well.

I imagine it'd be like trying to rationally force myself to believe in religion—which'd give me a sensation of feeling physically hollow, like a fugue state of being dissipatedly unsure of one's ontic bearing, where everything feels a perpetual 6 inches out of reach even if you're touching or pounding on them… then at some point I'd snap back with misery, and anger, because I just can't override the intrinsic visceral balking I sense towards things I don't believe.

It's pretty similar to what you're describing, yeah. I can't speak with any great authority on this, but I'd imagine that a good chunk of religious or political (or perhaps socionics ) zealots fall somewhere in the E6 line, where they might force themselves to believing in a religion because it provides for them a faulty sense of self-control. Like they sort of decide in their heads that "X is good, do X and you'll be fine" (see also: Attachment triad), and they just roll with it unaware of how deeply ingrained they've become with something that isn't really themselves. Healthier E6s won't fall prey to this mindset as much if at all.

Umm… I don't wanna mess up what you're doing if you've got a good thing going for yourself, but it does make me wonder if you're using your head/thoughts to suppress and overpower other inputs (desires/feelings/etc), and if this is necessarily a good thing?

Because that control you sense isn't illusory—it's quite real. You are making choices at all times in every moment (even when implicitly choosing to not make a choice).

Well sure, but it's not conducive to forwarding what I really want; often times it's more to prove a point to myself. What I'm describing is an unhealthy state of mind and ideally I wouldn't do it at all, although I could easily see myself morph into this over time if life turns out to be a giant pile of shit for me.

[InvisibleJim]

I demand DJA accepts my type of him or else I'll keep posting in his threads declaring my pidgeonholed rationale until he does.

The bigger the capitals of the text and the more derogatory my posts the more convincing my position will be and the more obviously deficient everyone else will be when they don't accept my diagnosis of their psychosis!

Accept my navel gazing grandeur.

[Azure Flame]

I'll ask again since no one answered my question.
@Gilly @Ashton

Did you guys learn enneagram from typewatch?

[Azure Flame]

I'll ask again since no one answered my question.
@Gilly @Ashton

Did you guys learn enneagram from typewatch?

[Azure Flame]

I'll ask again since no one answered my question.
@Gilly @Ashton

Did you guys learn enneagram from typewatch?

[Azure Flame]

Answer in the thread where everyone can see you fucking pussy.

[Galen]

Answer in the thread where everyone can see you fucking pussy.

What the fuck is your problem?

[Azure Flame]

@Ashton

I ask you a question and you answer in the chatbox. Sounds pretty evasive to me. Are you evasive? or are you going to face me like the strong mighty 8 you are?

Thor vs Loki. Lets see who wins this one.

[InvisibleJim]

Ashton Today 09:20 PM
no I am not from typewatch

Because you are worming away from showing all of the information in the same dialogue.

What the fuck is your problem?

Why are you hunting Snaps and DJA around the forum? aka. What the fuck is your problem?

[Galen]

@Ashton

I ask you a question and you answer in the chatbox. Sounds pretty evasive to me. Are you evasive? or are you going to face me like the strong mighty 8 you are?

Do you seriously not notice how often you project intentions onto people? It's really fucking stupid, cut it.

[Azure Flame]

*comment removed*

[blackburry]

@Ashton

I ask you a question and you answer in the chatbox. Sounds pretty evasive to me. Are you evasive? or are you going to face me like the strong mighty 8 you are?

Thor vs Loki. Lets see who wins this one.

he probably saw you on the chatbox and thought it easier to answer you there?......... why make a big deal out of it...


I see you as SLE-Ti 6w7. fwiw