Enneagram Type 8 and Gravitas

[Azure Flame]

before I get started I'd like to mention that this is a civil debate on the topic at hand and not an opportunity to bash me for being a dick.

so anyway there is some controversy over my enneagram 8w9 typing. I have yet to really understand why people think I'm not one until another 8 pointed it out to me. The keyword is "gravitas."

definition:
Gravitas - Dignity, seriousness, or solemnity of manner.

If enneagram 8 is solely defined by this principle, I am in no way an 8. I take nothing seriously, don't give a fuck, have very little dignity (except my deeply heartfelt values that only 2 or 3 people actually know about in my life, and I only talk about how large my cock is in crowded public rooms while shouting "ya fuckin like that shit!?" while someone innocently downs a soda.

With that being said, is gravitas a factor of being an 8? especially an 8w9? Where are some sources that specifically mention this?

Does anyone have any objective observations about my behavior that would suggest I'm not an 8w9?

I will explain the difference between objective and non-objective:
objective: You don't exude a grounded presence as mentioned about 8's in this article
You say a lot of things in your posts that suggest you are afraid of X (include quotes)
non-objective: You don't look 8'ish
I don't like you enough for you to be an 8
You fear X (yeah don't tell me how I feel or else I get pretty frustrated. I blame worthless butthurt Fi polr)

hokay thanks. So anyway, I'm genuinely curious to hear what you have to say. I've been questioning my type lately, and the only reason I haven't changed is because no one can point to a fact that shatters my current understanding, as one 8 did when referring to gravitas. Shortly after that I've been trying to understand the "why" and what creates this vibe etc. danke.

ps: in b4 predictable reactivists: blackburry lungs ashton ro allie glam kim starfall and absurd

[Gilly]

I think there can hardly be concrete observations from other people that have any weight on determining your type; you are the only one who has direct experience with your own inner workings. In the case of enneagram, the only thing we have to go off of are vibes, impressions, and stereotypical characteristics.

Personally I think you are either a 3 or a 6 because you just seem far too invested in what others think of you in terms of getting validation to be an 8. For example, if someone like mercutio, the only sure-fire SLE 8 I know to have been on this board, were curious what other people thought, he would coax it out of them in a roundabout way by pushing and prodding; he would never make a thread with a big explanation contextualizing his expectations of what people thought of him. It would just be a short thread with a silly attention grabbing title and a couple of words. Same goes for Absurd, although he's LSE so it's not quite the same. But if you interact with both of them, you can sense a certain reluctance and weight to their dealings with people, they are direct and brusque and never draw out their responses or elaborate over much. They give away very little, whereas you bear yourself for analysis, kind of begging people to pull more out of you. I relate to this and I think it has to do with being an attachment triad type. You are looking for something to grab onto, and want to use outside input as a way of winnowing or narrowing down whatever that is internally, whether it be more related to your self-image (3) or a more existential study of your "self" (6).

Does that make any sense?

[Galen]

Here are some examples of 8s that I've found:

Josh Brolin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGIH2yhIJ9s
Ron Perlman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMFl8p1Bhuo
Alecia Moore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AlYiijHeY
Anthony Hopkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPqtdrYRMJI
Denzel Washington: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JBXRLMgOmU&feature=fvst
Bruce Willis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqMoUYddoF4

I don't see 8s as necessarily "grounded" or "commanding" or whatever other buzzwords you have, although they're common characteristics nonetheless. Rather I see 8s as first and foremost characterized as being masters of their own domain. There's this very clearly defined boundary between where the 8 starts and other people begin, a line which they're generally very aware of and are constantly checking to see if others are crossing it. This is where the seeming groundedness comes in, because they're very much at home with who they are and what it is they stand for.

FWIW as little as I've interacted with you, your interpersonal barriers between others seem more malleable than I'd expect from an 8.

[Gilly]

There's this very clearly defined boundary between where the 8 starts and other people begin, a line which they're generally very aware of and are constantly checking to see if others are crossing it.

Yes this 100%. 8s sometimes react poorly to me because I generally try to reach into other people.

This is where the seeming groundedness comes in, because they're very much at home with who they are and what it is they stand for.

This is a little inflated IMO

FWIW as little as I've interacted with you, your interpersonal barriers between others seem more malleable than I'd expect from an 8.

Yes, definitely. This is part of what I was getting at. I am leaning 3 for him because he seems to take an assertive approach to this, rather than a passive one: now that he has been prodded at, he is going out and actively staking a pitched battle with the passively perceived "negative" attention It's very Ezra like, and something I see myself doing as well.

[Azure Flame]

Some of this is devil's advocate.

See its hard for me to separate socionics from enneagram in a lot of what you're describing, gilly.

I view Ti as a theory created upon facts. So here, I am building a sandcastle of knowledge, yet I'm missing some pieces. This thread, while I'm asking for input, mostly has the facts in place. However the fact that I can't convince people I'm 8 says to me there is something incorrect in what I believe, or that I am in fact, wrong.

When I ask for analysis from other people, I'm asking for them to provide me the missing pieces. The unfortunate part of this tactic is that only Ti dom's really know what I'm trying to do. A lot of it is mistaken for "validation" when in fact I'm not asking for your input, I'm simply asking for the missing piece of the puzzle, and these threads are a craigslist ad for someone who just so happens to have that missing piece. This is probably why its frustrating to many people when I ask for their input but simultaneously ignore it, then they take this behavior personally.

Galen, as for my personal barriers being malleable, I think I know what you're talking about. I actually let people into my life too easily, and don't close myself off as much as I should. Its a strange balance I've been trying to understand, but I am very easy to persuade if I trust you and let you into my barriers. For the most part, if you tell me to turn left, I'll turn left, which I've attirbuted to coming out of the military, but its still a hard call because supposedly enneagrams do that too?

By the way, most of those 8's you guys mentioned were middle aged men who probably have their lives figured out. I'm still young. do you think that has something to do with it? Would an 8 have to get comfortable in his own skin? The way I've described myself is, the Iron Giant. A giant kid who gets attacked by reactive people without ever really understanding why.

[Galen]

By the way, most of those 8's you guys mentioned were middle aged men who probably have their lives figured out. I'm still young. do you think that has something to do with it? Would an 8 have to get comfortable in his own skin? The way I've described myself is, the Iron Giant. A giant kid who gets attacked by reactive people without ever really understanding why.

Middle aged E8 celebrities were not always middle aged. I'm sure there's plenty of younger videos for anybody I've listed.

[Azure Flame]

Here are some examples of 8s that I've found:

Josh Brolin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGIH2yhIJ9s
Ron Perlman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMFl8p1Bhuo
Alecia Moore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AlYiijHeY
Anthony Hopkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPqtdrYRMJI
Denzel Washington: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JBXRLMgOmU&feature=fvst
Bruce Willis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqMoUYddoF4

I don't see 8s as necessarily "grounded" or "commanding" or whatever other buzzwords you have, although they're common characteristics nonetheless. Rather I see 8s as first and foremost characterized as being masters of their own domain. There's this very clearly defined boundary between where the 8 starts and other people begin, a line which they're generally very aware of and are constantly checking to see if others are crossing it. This is where the seeming groundedness comes in, because they're very much at home with who they are and what it is they stand for.

FWIW as little as I've interacted with you, your interpersonal barriers between others seem more malleable than I'd expect from an 8.

hmm, I need to rewatch the goonies for josh brolin

[Gilly]

Middle aged E8 celebrities were not always middle aged. I'm sure there's plenty of younger videos for anybody I've listed.

Curious, what sociotype do you have for Ron Perlman?

[Absurd]

See its hard for me to separate socionics from enneagram in a lot of what you're describing, gilly.

It's not hard. You're just dumb.

ps: in b4 predictable reactivists: blackburry lungs ashton ro allie glam kim starfall and absurd

Oh, let's see. You're able to type me and other people via Enneagram, but you can't type yourself. Brilliant.

Besides, taking into account this Enneagram stuff works at all, nice thread there.

[Galen]

Curious, what sociotype do you have for Ron Perlman?

As much as I would love him to be ISTp, I've got him as Si-ESTj. 9 wing and sp/sx as well.

[Gilly]

As much as I would love him to be ISTp, I've got him as Si-ESTj. 9 wing and sp/sx as well.

That makes sense.

[Gilly]

Most accurate thing you've ever said.

I agree but why do you have to be such a snatch about it?

[golden]

There's not much coming through here that seems 8ish. I don't pay lots of attention to your posts' content, but just glancing through, I would guess things like 3, 6, 7 ... and 8 would not come near the top of the list. The 8s I know actually *do* seem heavy to me, yes. Even if they are goofy sometimes (and the individuals I have in mind sometimes are, especially with the 7 wing), the first--and second and third and so on--impression made is one of solidity and a certain economy of self-presentation. One strong remark versus 30 weak to middling ones.

[Absurd]

Just tell him who he is, COMFINED.

[golden]

Or one lame remark.

[Absurd]

[Gilly]

Lmao

[ashlesha]

?