Its not. It is believed to be early formative. ie. constructive from the mind pathing forward.
Its not. It is believed to be early formative. ie. constructive from the mind pathing forward.
The real intention of promoting these divisive issues is to get people attacking one another. Not to make anyone happy.
I don't see how it can be anything other than I was born this way. In order for any condition to develop there has to be an organic source.I saw this video a long time ago and I didn't know how to feel about it then but I wish people would stop assuming that being gay is entirely genetic.
At 6-7 years old I got tingly feelings watching men in showers I couldn't explain. I never really crushed on a girl growing up I just liked them as really good friends. When I was 13 years old I started to have feelings for guys. I got into some heterosexual eroticism before then but I didn't know there was an alternative. At 14 years old I felt GAY GAY GAY GAY and it never went away since, until I got into heterosexual throat fucking videos. At which point I came to the conclusion that I wasn't straight, I just liked throat fucking, and straight throat fucking is the type of throat fucking I happened to run into first. But I don't believe its an 100% thing for most people. I feel 95% gay though.
I was so naive and sheltered growing up that I didn't even think homosexuality was possible. I just thought it was an insult. (I usually wasn't emotionally sensitive/stoopid enough to take it personally when kids said 'that's so gay') But I still think Hilary Duff is a sweet lil cutie pie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVicCD8FmMs&feature=fvst
The primary theory is that the first hormone dosing in the womb inappropriately doses the opposing gender's brain in pathing development. In other words, a biological male with the brain pathing of a female, or a biological female with the brain pathing of a male.
The point is homosexuality needs not to be 'divisive' in the first place. And crazedrat would you relax/calm down man. I don't really think anybody is being attacked here on the thread, we are just discussing and offering viewpoints.The real intention of promoting these divisive issues is to get people attacking one another.
What about all the straight men who aren't pure beastly 100% masculine straight men though. why doesn't their feminization turn them gay instead of just not as alpha male ish?The primary theory is that the first hormone dosing in the womb inappropriately doses the opposing gender's brain in pathing development. In other words, a biological male with the brain pathing of a female, or a biological female with the brain pathing of a male.
They still have the same gonadtastic goals, lol. Sexuality is just one dimension. Granted, it is still a major aspect of humanity.Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
I want to believe that but I know gay guys with str8 acting voices that sound "normal". I'm not one of them though.
I'm generalizing and not understanding the scientific specifics probably due to my Te polr/laziness but it seems like if that was the true, somebody like rock hudson couldn't be a homosexual.
Saying something is "genetic" does not necessarily preclude the possibility of an environmental influence. Environmental and lifestyle factors -- even psychological factors -- can activate genes via methylation, histone acetylation/deacetylation, etc. This is epigenetics.
At any rate, it's not important whether non-heterosexual orientations are "natural" or not. The fact is, gay people can't really change their sexuality any more than straight people can, and it hurts no one if they are allowed to live happily and enter into consensual, committed relationships free of harassment or being legally screwed just like anyone else.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Maybe I should have said "biological" because it encompasses both genetic and hormonal effects.
It seems like people are so concerned with fighting for "gay rights" that the possibility that it could have an environmental basis, or maybe just an environmental/cultural component, is ignored. The biological basis provides a solid argument against anti-gay people, and it's very useful in fighting for a position, but in spirit of keeping an open mind, I wish the possibility of environment affecting sexuality would be entertained.
I mean people aren't polarized into gay and straight, in the last 2-3 years the people I've met have been incredibly varied and existed on different points on the gay/straight spectrum, with some barely touching the gay border. I'm sure there's more to it than that, otherwise it would be polarized.
Oh, interesting.
I agree.
Who says I'm not calm.
Slacker misread sabers post and wrongfully attacked him. Then she insinuates that saber believes God hates gays, which is a neurotic fantasy of hers. And that he loves his guns and wants to desolate the whole world with the american flag. So noticing the conflict, and that this issue is used for political purposes to be divisive; I felt like making that known.
My point being if we all know God does not hate gays, as it has been said a thousand times, why are we still talking about it? Because gay marriage is still a heated political debate which we are constantly exposed to in the news, since for some unknown reason it has not been solved yet. The solution is extremely simple but it's gone unsolved. Why? As saber said, it is used specifically to rile up strife between liberals and GOP conservatives. Meaning this thread, starting with the assumption of the OP, is based on a perception given to us by the news; including slackers characterization of how saber feels about it, which misinterpreted what he actually said in light of news programming.
And not to shit on slacker, it's just a good instance of the strife which is triggered by this topic. Strife which has been programmed into us by the news.
2nd point being if we can realize this, we can diffuse any tension associated with it...
What is responsible for the vast majority of discrimination against gays is not belief in God, it is a reaction formation of teenage males dealing with questions of their sexuality unconsciously. It results in scapegoating of gays...
Last edited by rat1; 05-15-2012 at 05:15 PM.
Usually, in psychology, males are more likely to be gay or straight, and females are more likely to be within a wider spectrum.
re: environment. There have been some studies done, implying war-time pregnancies had higher ratios in homosexuals from birth.
Stress hormones in the mother I think cause that.
Just wanted to lump these because I think when you say "developmental" a lot of people might be thinking of childhood rather than gestation, which IMO is a significant difference.
Also would like to point out the benefits of homosexuality as observed in nature.
Homosexual birds have been observed in the wild. They nest together and engage in sexual acts for pleasure (this has been observed in homosexual pairs of numerous species, including dolphins and monkeys). They often nest around the perimeter of a colony, and act as an early warning system for the pro creating pairs in the center. They are the colony's first line of defense against predators and any presence perceived as hostile or threatening. These pairs form most frequently in colonies nearing the critical mass of population that can be supported by the resources in their vicinity.
Conclusion: homosexuality is a natural adaptation, the benefits of which are readily observable in a number of species including our own, leading me to conclude that it is successful product of evolution, the efficacy of which is easily demonstrated in our species and that of others. God knows American men need fashion advice.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Ok, a horrible what if questions popped into my mind...I really don't mean to offend anyone by it:
If scientists could determine the sexual orientation of a fetus in the mother's womb...would results showing homosexuality be sufficient grounds for fundamentalist religious groups to allow abortion?
Would posing such a conundrum even force them to really sit down and think about it all?
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Huh? I never insinuated that God hates gays or that Saber thinks that. I said the right uses three issues: "God, guns, and gays", as wedge issues. I made no other characterization.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Slacker, your idea is working lol.
self explanatory.
Last edited by rat1; 05-15-2012 at 10:31 PM.
Oh, I just meant he appears to be among the right-wing base, so that would make use of those wedge issues an attempt to make him happy, but I never said he thinks God hates gay people.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Slacker, crazedrat takes disparate information as valid, then reframes it. Don't waste your breath.
The strife exists naturally. Nobody is on top trolling us with it. It's more like we're trolling ourselves, because we care about society and how the world should be run. We care more about equality (or following a biblical code) than feeling like we are being controlled by some invisible puppet hand.As saber said, it is used specifically to rile up strife between liberals and GOP conservatives.
I can't believe that people are even talking about "what makes people Gay." Who cares! They are here! Deal with it with kindness, consideration, and courtesy.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'm inclined to believe prenatal hormones have a lot to do with it, on hunch. But regardless, I understand that being gay is as much of my choice and responsibility as is what hand I write with, what sort of sociotype I am, etc, etc. It is what it is. I just think it's sad that it's such an awkward subject to bring up with friends and family members, sometimes. I mean, I didn't do anything wrong by being that way. It doesn't make me gross or weird (in itself), and when I say "I'm gay" it doesn't mean I'm suddenly a different person. I mean, I guess I've changed since coming out...like no longer coming off as completely asexual, being less rigid, but hey, on the other hand...I'm more or less saying I'd like to hold a pretty girl's hand instead of holding hands with a bloke.
Yeah maritsa ultimately that's right. It can be interesting to discuss how people are gay but ultimately it becomes a veil.
People just have an understandable ick factor to it. I used to have the same ick factor as anybody else, but then I realized I was what other people found 'icky' and so I had internalized homophobia for awhile. It's honest and humane to say "It just grosses me out." It's not really honest or humane to try defend/explain its existence because like you said, it exists regardless. Even if it was created in a lab somewhere by Illuminati reptile demons. I don't care. We all deserve fair treatment.
This is how people deal with it, by rationalization; they don't like the fact that they can't explain it (I think the main reason for this is it's unfamiliarity, and the discomfort they experience with gay people), it's not enough for some people, it puts them off and they don't like it; By saying "gay is genetic" this gives them no choice or control over the issue; "gay people are made that way by their interaction with others" this gives them the the bases for "trying to cure them." Just ridiculous; I think, of course, you can think of a multitude of other interpretations for each assumption or claim and come up with a million interpretations.
It doesn't matter; no one knows. That's the bottom line. Some things are too complicated to understand. We can't even figure out depression...etc.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That's the problem with being rational. It's innately impossible to rationalize away a discomfort/ickiness by the scientific mind. Not even about gay people anymore but about something that becomes objectively harmful no matter what the topic.
No, they are. The strife exists naturally, and it makes a great political leverage because of that. Every tendency we have is used to control us by puppet masters.
Last edited by rat1; 05-17-2012 at 01:58 PM.
You could say that about so many things though and ultimately that just makes me feel like a victim. Do I really want to abandon my deep love and years of watching Buffy just because the creator in all reality was just trolling me? ((well that's more of a legitimate question since i haven't purchased season 9.)) We're not being trolled by everything (only what subjectively presses our own buttons), since there's so much to consume and we have choices on what to consume. It's like if you meditated to become God yourself, you would just create another dream-world for people to leap into or not.
You think in such extreme, generalized ways rat!
I don't like having a part of my identity being used as a proverbial political (as well as ecclesiastical) football more than anyone, but on the other hand, if that is what it takes to get people off the fence and decide whether they care that people like me exist and whether we are normal enough to have equal rights, I can accept that people won't get along. I'd rather they not get along, in fact, than being united in cruel, life-threatening ignorance as they blindly trample my kind in great and small ways.
Having said that, I generally get along with people who I suspect are anti-gay. I just feel better to keep a safe distance for both our sakes. Especially if it's out of religious conviction and not much else since I've been there and yet it is what angers me the most but I direct the anger at the pulpit and at the spirit of religious homophobia more than I do the people (for we wrestle not with flesh and blood, blah, blah, blah). I also believe, firmly, that God is on my side on that issue if he and I are on the same page on anything anymore.
Also, RIP Rembert S. Truluck. Great mind, great liberator.
Last edited by aixelsyd; 05-17-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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