Videotype Me!!!

[Animal]

it's interesting that you see me as "grounded" and that you see me as having a "forceful" presence. i don't think i've been described this way before. as for groundedness, yes, i try to be aware of the world around me, so that i can strive to be sensible and not ignorant about things. i don't want to feel disconnected from the world - i felt that way for years - and i was depressed all the time.

may i ask what is "forceful" about me?

i can be very goofy - it's just not a side i show very easily i guess.

it seems we are both using ourselves as the benchmark against which we judge whether someone else is IEI or not - since we both recognize the fact that we are different, we both suggested different types for each other i have to say that in this case, i'm not too convinced that subtypes or enneagram sufficiently explain away the differences for me, at least not enough to explain why two IEIs would feel this much dissimilarity between each other regarding preferred methods of communication and other socionically relevant information.

i still think i am probably IEI-Fe, though if i recall correctly, April said that i seem closer to ILI rather than SEI.

as for my DC photos (thank you for the compliment!), i'll see if i can find more decent ones, and perhaps post them in the meetup thread.

I think “forceful” was probably the wrong word, actually. You seem much more “solid” in your presence, I guess. Like you wouldn’t be washed away by the external flow of interaction, but rather remained firmly rooted in yourself. You seemed pretty consistent and restrained in your emotional expression -- you came across very dignified and self-possessed. By contrast, I sort of see myself as more of an expressive lightweight, lol. My personality is very malleable and I sometimes lose myself in the flow of conversation and who I’m interacting with. Sometimes I feel like I have no expressive “core” inside that will dependably come out in a predictable way. I just mold myself to whomever I’m interacting with. You came across as more definitely having a firm footing in yourself, like you wouldn’t be as easily externally swayed.

Bah, I’m bad at this. It’s really hard for me to explain, but I hope I’m making at least some sense.

Yeah, I have to admit it’s really weird that two apparent IEIs would see each other as completely different types, lol. That I so consistently get EII on this forum is really weird to me because intertype-wise, IEI fits so perfectly. I don’t think I’ve mistyped my duals. I can’t imagine mistaking an SLE for an LSE. They’re very distinctive types. What sort of EII would be enamored of their conflictor?

[mu4]

My understanding of Fi vs. Fe is this:

Fi = internal statics of fields; I see Fi as a focus on static “attitude” of liking or disliking, or a judgment/conclusions one comes to about a person. Expression of Fi manifests itself more in the content of what is spoken – the “what is said” rather than the “how.” Those with Fi-PoLR tend to be insecure about others’ attitudes towards them, overall; they tend to need physical shows of affection (Fe) rather than words (Fi).

Fe = external dynamics of objects; I see Fe as a focus on the dynamic flow of conversation. Expression of Fe manifests in the “how it’s said” rather than “what is said” – it’s based on mood, cadence, tone, rhythm of conversation, and music of speech, etc. It’s also known as “prosody.” Those with Fe-PoLR tend to be insecure in how others are reacting to them, from moment to moment; they tend to feel more secure with explicit words of affection (Fi), because they aren’t as confident at interpreting non-verbal cues (Fe).

I consider myself kind of incompetent at words of affection. It comes out stilted and feels like empty words, and the people who I feel affection for would probably look at me like I’m a freak if I tried. LMAO. I’d rather do it non-verbally: through playful insults, conveying it through looks, laughter, as peck on the forehead, a head laid down on the shoulder, hugs, affectionate punches in the guts. I try to convey it in my physical mannerisms, voice, and posture. Beta STs are pretty good at playing this game, I find. They’ll play along with you: punch you back, curse you out with a grin on their face, wrestle you, lol.

The EIIs and IEEs I know are much more comfortable just saying “I love you” verbally, and aren’t as interested in expressing it through physical manifestation. They say it very simply and without scruples. And from what I’ve observed, Delta STs are receptive to that unadorned verbalized affection, and aren’t very comfortable/adept at feeding back the nonverbal playful stuff; they’d much rather do it more simply with an arm around the shoulder, or via giving presents, or being helpful around the house, or whatnot. They are not comfortable playing the Fe game.

Does this make sense to anyone, or am I just crazy? lol.

You seem to focus a lot on showing affection here rather than atmosphere. I think Glam is mostly concerned with maintaining a dignified presence, being friendly and charming and trying to stay diplomatic. Which if you don't know them can make some Fe creatives a bit closed off. They often monitor and assess the situation to see if they can show themselves a bit more. This can make them diplomatic and friendly to almost everyone they meet while not really revealing much of themselves.

In social situations manifests itself dynamically based on what it's trying to express, it could be being dignified, charming and accommodating. It could be goofy and fun. It can be angry and indignant. It can be disgusted and disturbed.

The atmosphere of affection is only one of the ways that can be expressed, and when it's done, clarity is sought, verbal and physical affirmation of love are there as is all the standard stuff. I don't think these are very different between quadras, but the goal of the interaction are different. When types are joking around and being "affectionate" within a group, what's happening often it's not being personally "affectionate", it's more about camaraderie and benevolence. It's a mutual and dynamic interaction that brings the group together without letting personal feelings intrude on the situation. There might be limerence between members of the group and likes and dislikes, but these are rejected for a mutual level of camaraderie and benevolence towards each other.

The key difference here is that the expressions do not belong to any single individual in the interaction, it's mutual and collective.

Are there personal feelings in this atmosphere; most certainly, but the communication of it is superseded by the expression of camaraderie and benevolence towards whomever happens to be accepted in that group. If someone was to say loudly declare their love for another member of the group, it may be awkward and would disturb the vibe going on, unless that expression was creative and fun for the group as well(there are ways to do this). Note that all types and individuals can engage and participate in these all situations, and any situation which they might encounter in life. But preferences and focuses of communication is ultimately what socionics involves.

[jessica129]

You've grown up a lot Baby since like 06 when you last posted a video LOL

I can't say what type you are but you really remind me a lot of Mune...you have a similar way of speaking and a very, very similar vibe.

[Radio]

[text]

Does this make sense to anyone, or am I just crazy? lol.

no, this is perfect.
thank you for not taking the Fe = loud annoying and obnoxious route.

[blackburry]

I cringe when I hear socionics being talked about outloud, it does something to my ears. like nails on a chalkboard. and
I've still been pronouncing it wrong!!!
I say, So-CON-ics. like a tard.

oh well. I like the way I "hear" it better.

Meeting people on here is weird isn't it.

It makes me wonder how off people's internet persona is.

From Baby's posts I'd say IEI. but the video...EII.
but everyone's had some decent points.
And i'm the same way as starfall and glam in that it takes me a while to warm up.
But then again, other people say I'm very warm?? But that's just at work. Guess I have a work persona.

[jessica129]

I cringe when I hear socionics being talked about outloud, it does something to my ears. like nails on a chalkboard. and
I've still been pronouncing it wrong!!!
I say, So-CON-ics. like a tard.

It sort of makes me uncomfortable too. Like....a nerdy, secret club you don't want to admit to being a part of and surely don't want the rest of the population to know you're in. Its like this dark secret LOL. And so con ics? lol

[Suz]

My understanding of Fi vs. Fe is this:

Fi = internal statics of fields; I see Fi as a focus on static “attitude” of liking or disliking, or a judgment/conclusions one comes to about a person. Expression of Fi manifests itself more in the content of what is spoken – the “what is said” rather than the “how.” Those with Fi-PoLR tend to be insecure about others’ attitudes towards them, overall; they tend to need physical shows of affection (Fe) rather than words (Fi).

Fe = external dynamics of objects; I see Fe as a focus on the dynamic flow of conversation. Expression of Fe manifests in the “how it’s said” rather than “what is said” – it’s based on mood, cadence, tone, rhythm of conversation, and music of speech, etc. It’s also known as “prosody.”

I am totally with you here.

Those with Fe-PoLR tend to be insecure in how others are reacting to them, from moment to moment; they tend to feel more secure with explicit words of affection (Fi), because they aren’t as confident at interpreting non-verbal cues (Fe).

This is where it sorta starts falling apart imo... I dont think "words of affection" = Fi. Not in the least actually. I find that Fe-valuers tend to depend more on words of affection as one of the "physical signs" that u referred to earlier. Words of affection, gifts, etc... all of that ime has been more of an Fe thing.

Fi-valuers ime and per my understanding, tend to sort of have an implicit sense of how they feel about someone, as well as an implicit understanding of how someone feels about them, sort of obviating the need for reinforcing it verbally, giving gifts, etc to make it known. thus the "knowing glances" sort of supporting this implicit sense of relationship.

The EIIs and IEEs I know are much more comfortable just saying “I love you” verbally, and aren’t as interested in expressing it through physical manifestation. They say it very simply and without scruples. And from what I’ve observed, Delta STs are receptive to that unadorned verbalized affection, and aren’t very comfortable/adept at feeding back the nonverbal playful stuff; they’d much rather do it more simply with an arm around the shoulder, or via giving presents, or being helpful around the house, or whatnot.

Nope, not at all... Well being helpful, yes. Acts of service are big for Si-valuers i think... Gifts i think are more of an Fe show of affection/appreciation, but it really depends on the setting, reason, thought behind the gift, etc.

[Suz]

I cringe when I hear socionics being talked about outloud, it does something to my ears. like nails on a chalkboard. and
I've still been pronouncing it wrong!!!
I say, So-CON-ics. like a tard.

lol....am i the only one who says "so-see-AW-niks"??

[mu4]

lol....am i the only one who says "so-see-AW-niks"??

I think that's the way it's pronounced isn't it?

[Animal]

You seem to focus a lot on showing affection here rather than atmosphere. I think Glam is mostly concerned with maintaining a dignified presence, being friendly and charming and trying to stay diplomatic. Which if you don't know them can make some Fe creatives a bit closed off. They often monitor and assess the situation to see if they can show themselves a bit more. This can make them diplomatic and friendly to almost everyone they meet while not really revealing much of themselves.

The focus on showing affection was basically to address the ILE/SLE hidden agenda "to be loved." SLEs, in particular, will find funny roundabout ways to get you affirm your affection for them, IME. Also, I find the Fe-Ips tend to be more concerned with controlling the emotional tonus one-on-one or in pretty small groups. They don't really do it on a group level because they don't really have the gravitas to pull it off from what I've seen. Fe-Ejs are much more adept at managing the group atmosphere.

You've grown up a lot Baby since like 06 when you last posted a video LOL

I can't say what type you are but you really remind me a lot of Mune...you have a similar way of speaking and a very, very similar vibe.

God, I feel like I've been here forever. Yep, I've gotten a little haggard over the years, lol. What type is Mune these days? I think I remember him being SEI? I remember seeing his video and liking how chill he was.

no, this is perfect.
thank you for not taking the Fe = loud annoying and obnoxious route.

Thanks Radio!

I cringe when I hear socionics being talked about outloud, it does something to my ears. like nails on a chalkboard. and
I've still been pronouncing it wrong!!!
I say, So-CON-ics. like a tard.

oh well. I like the way I "hear" it better.

Meeting people on here is weird isn't it.

It makes me wonder how off people's internet persona is.

From Baby's posts I'd say IEI. but the video...EII.
but everyone's had some decent points.
And i'm the same way as starfall and glam in that it takes me a while to warm up.
But then again, other people say I'm very warm?? But that's just at work. Guess I have a work persona.

haha! Yeah, Socionics out loud still is awkward to me. I will never talk to about it to anyone of my friends/family because they might stumble upon this site and I've posted so much shit here that I don't even remember well enough to be embarrassed about, lol. I'd like to think of myself as pretty warm and easy going. I had really terrible social anxiety growing up (to the point of selective mutism), but that changed gradually. Interesting that you see a difference between my type in posts, and in the video.

Fi-valuers ime and per my understanding, tend to sort of have an implicit sense of how they feel about someone, as well as an implicit understanding of how someone feels about them, sort of obviating the need for reinforcing it verbally, giving gifts, etc to make it known. thus the "knowing glances" sort of supporting this implicit sense of relationship.

Is it common for a Fi-ego type to be completely dependent on that external stuff to get a sense of the internal stuff? Because that's what I meant. I genuinely have no implicit sense of the relationship unless I get really obvious clues that the person likes me. You have to beat me over the head with it.

[Suz]

I think that's the way it's pronounced isn't it?

Yay!

[Animal]

Okay, I think I've got a good way to settle on this. What type is the guy on the right (from 0:17 on) in this video? This is what I turn into when I'm with the people I think are my duals:

[Park]

My understanding of Fi vs. Fe is this:

Fi = internal statics of fields; I see Fi as a focus on static “attitude” of liking or disliking, or a judgment/conclusions one comes to about a person. Expression of Fi manifests itself more in the content of what is spoken – the “what is said” rather than the “how.” Those with Fi-PoLR tend to be insecure about others’ attitudes towards them, overall; they tend to need physical shows of affection (Fe) rather than words (Fi).

Fe = external dynamics of objects; I see Fe as a focus on the dynamic flow of conversation. Expression of Fe manifests in the “how it’s said” rather than “what is said” – it’s based on mood, cadence, tone, rhythm of conversation, and music of speech, etc. It’s also known as “prosody.” Those with Fe-PoLR tend to be insecure in how others are reacting to them, from moment to moment; they tend to feel more secure with explicit words of affection (Fi), because they aren’t as confident at interpreting non-verbal cues (Fe).

Pretty much.

In regards to the last quoted sentence: Explicit words of affection wouldn't mean anything to me if they don't seem convincing and I don't feel I can trust the other person. So even though I prefer the clean, straight-forward expression, it usually isn't sufficient to convince me of anything unless it is backed up by an implicit sense of trust, liking, reliability, and consistency.

The EIIs and IEEs I know are much more comfortable just saying “I love you” verbally, and aren’t as interested in expressing it through physical manifestation. They say it very simply and without scruples. And from what I’ve observed, Delta STs are receptive to that unadorned verbalized affection, and aren’t very comfortable/adept at feeding back the nonverbal playful stuff; they’d much rather do it more simply with an arm around the shoulder, or via giving presents, or being helpful around the house, or whatnot. They are not comfortable playing the Fe game.

I can be playful to a certain extent, but this is quite sporadic and inessential, and actually lessens as I start to like and get close to someone. I feel the most at ease when I come to the point where I feel no need whatsoever to play any games, but feel comfortable doing it occasionally, when I (and/or the other person) feel like it.

[glam]

I wonder if we come off similarly in person, Glam. Would you describe yourself as abnormally shy and anxious? Because I often feel that I am. Throughout my whole life I've felt that my shyness tends to hurt the first impressions that I give to people. They find it hard to connect with me because I'm so closed off and stiff. It sometimes takes a strong personality to break through the barrier. Once it's broken, I'm this loud, loose, goofy, fun, overly emotional person. I've been described as having two personalities because of this. I blame it on anxiety.

It's gotten better, though. The guy I'm dating constantly points out when I'm being closed off & aloof to people (it's something I'm usually not aware of), and it usually makes me force myself to snap out of it & become more warm, open and involved (the more I practice at it, the more honest I am with people).

ohhh, and I've noticed that fish oil, ginkgo biloba and B vitamins help with this, strangely enough.

i definitely used to be much more shy and anxious in the way you're describing. i wouldn't say that it has gone away completely, but it has improved over time. i resolved over a year ago (or was it two years ago?) to force myself to do things outside of my comfort zone. i started to care more about doing well in my endeavors (instead of being depressed and apathetic about everything), i made myself get involved in activities that would force me to make friends (to stop being so antisocial), i engaged in some public speaking (before, i would always be hiding from people), etc.

doing things like these have helped me grow and become aware of what i have to offer as a person. while i may still come off as mysterious and shy to people, i am not as bad as i used to be - this is not to say i tell perfect strangers all of my secrets or anything like that, but i have learned how to be more honest and forthright with people, and to not let self-consciousness get so much in the way of living my life. i still feel awkward a lot of the time when interacting with people, or even guilty that i wasn't being social "enough", or i worry afterwards that i may have said the wrong thing, etc. but i think now me being closed off is overall becoming less debilitating to my life. at least, i *feel* better overall than i used to!

let's face it, you are not going to form deep relationships with most people you meet, and that's okay. so yes, i may be a hard person to get to know, but it is not necessarily a bad thing to be that way.

part of making progress like this involves forcing yourself to face your fears, as cliche as that sounds. it is good that you have your boyfriend to help you out - i think my own actions may even be me compensating for lack of a dual in my life.

i think hkkmr described me and my Fe-creative use well and how that plays into my social behavior. there is also the issue of enneagram - i believe i am probably Self-preservational instinct.

re: supplements - i take fish oil and a basic vitamin supplement regularly (when i remember!) i wasn't aware of ginkgo biloba's effects, so thank you for the advice! after this semester, i feel totally worn out, and so i am trying to do things to look and feel better.

[Park]

Ah, introversion...

You're a pretty cool person, Glam.

[glam]

thank you, Parkster

[mu4]

The focus on showing affection was basically to address the ILE/SLE hidden agenda "to be loved." SLEs, in particular, will find funny roundabout ways to get you affirm your affection for them, IME. Also, I find the Fe-Ips tend to be more concerned with controlling the emotional tonus one-on-one or in pretty small groups. They don't really do it on a group level because they don't really have the gravitas to pull it off from what I've seen. Fe-Ejs are much more adept at managing the group atmosphere.

I think creatives do a invaluable role in managing group atmosphere, they are gentle peace keepers and diplomats.

[glam]

I think “forceful” was probably the wrong word, actually. You seem much more “solid” in your presence, I guess. Like you wouldn’t be washed away by the external flow of interaction, but rather remained firmly rooted in yourself. You seemed pretty consistent and restrained in your emotional expression -- you came across very dignified and self-possessed. By contrast, I sort of see myself as more of an expressive lightweight, lol. My personality is very malleable and I sometimes lose myself in the flow of conversation and who I’m interacting with. Sometimes I feel like I have no expressive “core” inside that will dependably come out in a predictable way. I just mold myself to whomever I’m interacting with. You came across as more definitely having a firm footing in yourself, like you wouldn’t be as easily externally swayed.

Bah, I’m bad at this. It’s really hard for me to explain, but I hope I’m making at least some sense.

Yeah, I have to admit it’s really weird that two apparent IEIs would see each other as completely different types, lol. That I so consistently get EII on this forum is really weird to me because intertype-wise, IEI fits so perfectly. I don’t think I’ve mistyped my duals. I can’t imagine mistaking an SLE for an LSE. They’re very distinctive types. What sort of EII would be enamored of their conflictor?

no, you make sense! thank you for explaining.

i think what hkkmr wrote about me is correct, as far as my use of Fe. Fe isn't really about unrestrained emotional expression, especially not from an Fe-creative. i think "deliberate" would be better word than "unrestrained"; it's really pretty controlled.

you say intertype-wise IEI fits perfectly for you, but does it? due to Identical vibes, April would have to be retyped IEI, and due to differences between us, i would have to be typed something other than IEI, etc.

let me tell you, i was once best friends with an LSE. we initially connected because we shared some interests, had compatible senses of humor, and i think we were both the kind of people who felt somewhat on the periphery socially. so, i don't think it's impossible to connect with a Conflictor. (the relation of Conflict made itself more obvious once we moved out and got an apartment together. it was during that time, miserably living with her, that i actually joined this forum.)

i would say that it's not necessarily that strange to confuse SLE and LSE, because they are Quasi-identicals, share the same strong functions, etc. and of course, it's not impossible to be friends with people in your opposing quadra; two of my friends in real life at the moment are IEE and EII.

anyway, i still don't think IEI is impossible for you, but i do think that EII is a better fit based on what i know about you now; and i do think your interaction with hkkmr in this thread was telling

[Animal]

no, you make sense! thank you for explaining.

i think what hkkmr wrote about me is correct, as far as my use of Fe. Fe isn't really about unrestrained emotional expression, especially not from an Fe-creative. i think "deliberate" would be better word than "unrestrained"; it's really pretty controlled.

you say intertype-wise IEI fits perfectly for you, but does it? due to Identical vibes, April would have to be retyped IEI, and due to differences between us, i would have to be typed something other than IEI, etc.

let me tell you, i was once best friends with an LSE. we initially connected because we shared some interests, had compatible senses of humor, and i think we were both the kind of people who felt somewhat on the periphery socially. so, i don't think it's impossible to connect with a Conflictor. (the relation of Conflict made itself more obvious once we moved out and got an apartment together. it was during that time, miserably living with her, that i actually joined this forum.)

i would say that it's not necessarily that strange to confuse SLE and LSE, because they are Quasi-identicals, share the same strong functions, etc. and of course, it's not impossible to be friends with people in your opposing quadra; two of my friends in real life at the moment are IEE and EII.

anyway, i still don't think IEI is impossible for you, but i do think that EII is a better fit based on what i know about you now; and i do think your interaction with hkkmr in this thread was telling

Thanks for you thoughts, glam. It's possibly I've confused the two quasi-identicals. My benchmark for SLE is my brother. Here, you can V.I. him; my best friend for 20 years -- SLE or LSE? (Please don't quote!):

[cut]

[Animal]

ahahaha! Yeah he's a little ladykiller. (or a big one. Hes like 6'3" lol) Definitely thought Se-something for him. I can't imagine an EII putting up with his antics for very long, or hanging around the same loud, boisterous, drunken scenes, or the scenarios of questionable legality I find myself in around him, lol.

[Suz]

lol... um Baby i'm going to go out on a limb all by myself and say... your bro VI's IEE to me.

If he's not IEE, i'll say SEE as an alternative. He doesn't come off as Fe-HA at all in his pics. I feel like he looks Ne/Si but maybe i'm wrong...

If you're EII and he's IEE that would also explain how you've been best friends. I'm best friends with my EII sister too.

[Suz]

ahahaha! Yeah he's a little ladykiller.

IEE guys can definitely be ladykillers (they are called Don Juans after all!). I dont know about being loud and boisterous though... I guess some IEEs can be, maybe depending on what his other friends are like...

[Suz]

Alternatively, your bro could actually be SEE, which might explain why people are getting a lot of Ni from your posts... maybe you've developed your Ni more in relating to your bro over the years. And maybe your bro developed his Si more in relating to you and that's why he looks Si-ish in some pics...

[Animal]

Smfh... Um, no, WA. Just no to IEE. Dude has no Ne.

Alternatively, your bro could actually be SEE, which might explain why people are getting a lot of Ni from your posts... maybe you've developed your Ni more in relating to your bro over the years. And maybe your bro developed his Si more in relating to you and that's why he looks Si-ish in some pics...

Or... I could actually be IEI like I've been saying and actually have Ni in my ego? And he looks Si why exactly? Because he wears Urban Outfitters and Abercrombie shit? I don't see him being in a Fi/Si quadra -- he's aggressive (and actually prone to getting physical when he's angry; this has been a huge problem for him growing up but he's since taken on MMA and other sports to mediate all that pent up frustration), has little to no regard for keeping the peace (he is one of the most skillful people I've ever met at constructing insults -- he makes my Alpha SF mom cry regularly), and brash as fuck. I only entertained LSE and SEE because they've all got strong Se.

I'm not trying to be mean WA, but your suggestions are on crack.

[mu4]

Smfh... Um, no, WA. Just no to IEE. Dude has no Ne.

Or... I could actually be IEI like I've been saying and actually have Ni in my ego? And he looks Si why exactly? Because he wears Urban Outfitters and Abercrombie shit? I don't see him being in a Fi/Si quadra -- he's aggressive (and actually prone to getting physical when he's angry; this has been a huge problem for him growing up but he's since taken on MMA and other sports to mediate all that pent up frustration), has little to no regard for keeping the peace (he is one of the most skillful people I've ever met at constructing insults -- he makes my Alpha SF mom cry regularly), and brash as fuck. I only entertained LSE and SEE because they've all got strong Se.

I'm not trying to be mean WA, but your suggestions are on crack.

I think SEE can easily work, I know a SEE that does very similar things(MMA, anger management problems, he gets thrown out of bars all the time). He spends a lot of time making creative insults for his ex-wives on Facebook and posting it for everyone. I think your brother is a subtype of SEE or SLE but I get the idea that he's ethical not logical.

The SLE that I deal with regularly is totally different, she'll get angry at you but she doesn't make very creative insults. Her way of working in anger is like, "I'll never talk to you again, you don't care about me." She expect a high standard of decorum, grace and charm in her friends and any out of line behavior is going to piss her off. In the Filatova book this is remarked upon as well where SLE's will make ultimatums with their families and if their families don't comply they will simply leave. Someone that uses emotional pressure creatively and comfortably is IMO more likely an ethical type.

SLEs are frequently both direct and rough in their speech and in the air they give off. They're awkward in relationships without realising it. But, because of their awareness of power dynamics as well as their ability to almost switch off their emotions, they simply break off from the situation, without harming their interests in any way. If someone mentions to an SLE any evidence of scheming or manipulation, the SLE will brush it off with something akin to "it's pointless to be fearful". The SLE won't turn his attention to problems or issues that others have; he generally takes them lightly. However, if the SLE spots suspicious or dishonourable behaviour in an individual, he will without second thought take them up on it.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ale_and_female

As a person she is very straight forward and non-compromising, and not in a personal way but in a concrete fashion which is often impossible for her subordinants to comply with. She doesn't insult people at all except maybe to call the stupid and dense, and things like that which are uncreative. Ultimately she doesn't care to do that and if you can't fulfill her standards, she'll just leave you in the dust.

I think all extroverts are brash, but when I see SLE dishing out humor or brashness it's generally more joke and less personal.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post870159

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post870149

This is a bit different than the SEE I mentioned earlier who is extremely personal with his insults and enjoys crafting very mean ones for his ex-wives. This is due to the personal vindictiveness in their thinking. Even through the actually relationship is over, he's kept the feelings.

Another thing imo is if you are duals with your brother and it's IEI/SLE duality, I wouldn't see him continue his bad behavior. I'm without a doubt softer and kinder around creatives.

[Animal]

He's softer and kinder and more playful around me. And the brilliance of his insults is in their wit and humor -- not how personal it is. He doesnt have "bad behavior" so much as his personality is very strong and it will lead to inevitable conflicts with others. I'm not with him all the time and I don't believe that everything always has to be diplomatic and honky dory at all times. Sometimes the people who frustrate him are indeed assholes and need to be to just STFU. Sometimes they're not. I try to temper his aggression and smooth things out when the other person is just an innocent bystander. But again I'm not with him all the time and i don't believe for a second that duality just makes everything perfect and teaches people to be agreeable to everyone. That's not possible nor is it realistic. Or desirable for that matter.

[mu4]

He's softer and kinder and more playful around me. And the brilliance of his insults is in their wit and humor -- not how personal it is. He doesnt have "bad behavior" so much as his personality is very strong and it will lead to inevitable conflicts with others. I'm not with him all the time and I don't believe that everything always has to be diplomatic and honky dory at all times. Sometimes the people who frustrate him are indeed assholes and need to be to just STFU. Sometimes they're not. I try to temper his aggression and smooth things out when the other person is just an innocent bystander. But again I'm not with him all the time and i don't believe for a second that duality just makes everything perfect and teaches people to be agreeable to everyone. That's not possible nor is it realistic. Or desirable for that matter.

I would say some creatives actually try to be agreeable with everyone. XEI can be very much like that, I appreciate that about them and it's one of the traits that I most like. They generally like me when I am doing something which is not in their nature to do and that is to be quite disagreeable to others. This is probably the trait I most admire about XEI, their ability to seemingly deal with everyone in a diplomatic fashion.

I think one example is Glam who is very agreeable to almost everyone she meets, often imo way too much. She's diplomatic to people she likes, people she doesn't like, etc. Starfall is also very much like this, and she reminds me of other IEI's I know as well, such as Esper.

[Animal]

And honesty hkkmr, I kind of feel like you've built up this sense of conflict between us that isn't even there. When we met in person, there was no conflict or judgment or supervision. I liked you. I thought you were funny and interesting and charming and intellectually stimulating. I thought you were warm and soft around me. You don't think I was diplomatic or agreeable or those things? If there was any rift between us, I would say it was because I thought maybe you focused a bit too MUCH on Si stuff -- food specifically. Food isn't something I can get all that enthusiastic about or really focus on. It's just sort of "there" for me.

And as for glam, I actually have no problem with her as IEI. Human behavior is dynamic. I can come across like she did under certain circumstances. I went into that meeting with a conscious decision to come across as I did, or at least hope I did. I hope I came across as warm and easy going. I didn't really have a problem accepting glam as my identical until she showed skepticism at me being Beta, lol. I saw a bit of Princess Diana in her who I think was IEI.

[Absurd]

I saw a bit of Princess Diana in her who I think was IEI.

[mu4]

And honesty hkkmr, I kind of feel like you've built up this sense of conflict between us that isn't even there. When we met in person, there was no conflict or judgment or supervision. I liked you. I thought you were funny and interesting and charming and intellectually stimulating. I thought you were warm and soft around me. You don't think I was diplomatic or agreeable or those things? If there was any rift between us, I would say it was because I thought maybe you focused a bit too MUCH on Si stuff -- food specifically. Food isn't something I can get all that enthusiastic about or really focus on. It's just sort of "there" for me.

And as for glam, I actually have no problem with her as IEI. Human behavior is dynamic. I can come across like she did under certain circumstances. I went into that meeting with a conscious decision to come across as I did, or at least hope I did. I hope I came across as warm and easy going. I didn't really have a problem accepting glam as my identical until she showed skepticism at me being Beta, lol. I saw a bit of Princess Diana in her who I think was IEI.

I don't think I have a conflict with you? It's interesting how things get interpreted. When we met in person, I don't think there was any conflict either and even in this thread, I don't think there should have been any sort of conflict as well. Ultimately I'm very opinionated person and I probably go out of my way to bring evidence to back up my opinions and I don't particularly like to relent, this gets me into conflicts, but rarely do I want conflict.

I typed you EII prior to this meet(and one of the people that typed you EII, you might not have know as I don't do type lists) due to forum observations, I was pretty sure going into this that Glam and you would be quite different and I have tons and tons of experience with IEI's, very different ones. If there is one type I think I know very well, it's IEI. My brother's wife is also an EII who is very similar to you, and imo she has a stressful time handling me and her Beta Extrovert child. A lot of times info conflict isn't really a conflict but frustration and stress brought on in dealing with a unpleasant form of information. This doesn't mean you are EII because my assessment can be wrong. I think in 5-10 years, maybe I can confirm it.

As a socionics observation

I kind of feel like you've built up this sense of conflict between us that isn't even there.

I'm pretty sure I got PoLR hit right here. These sort of personal accusations about my inner feelings have always set me off in the past and it's only in socionics that I've learned to deal with these painful experiences in a more analytically fashion, which dulls that pain.

[aixelsyd]

The bro is Se dom. Not LSE at all.

[Absurd]

The bro is Se dom. Not LSE at all.

Ye, shitty haircut - not LSE.

[Radio]

Baby, your bro is kinda hot.

Also EXTp, probably ESTp > ENTp.

[Creepy-female]

Being able to "handle" hkkmr has nothing do with whether or not you value Fi. It's like arguing with a bot. Stay strong, Jesus.

[Park]

Are you gayo, Radio?

[Radio]

Are you gayo, Radio?

sometimes

[Radio]

btw

I'm pretty sure I got PoLR hit right here. These sort of personal accusations about my inner feelings have always set me off in the past and it's only in socionics that I've learned to deal with these painful experiences in a more analytically fashion, which dulls that pain.

[glam]

aww Auvi, i didn't realize your best friend was your brother! yes, i can agree with SXE based on VI.



anyway please don't get worked up guys no one here wants to fight, or had any ill intentions. i think a lot of things are being misinterpreted here via online communication that may not have been if this had happened in real life.

[mu4]

Being able to "handle" hkkmr has nothing do with whether or not you value Fi. It's like arguing with a bot. Stay strong, Jesus.

The thing is I never argue with some people. I've never argued with Glam in my life and it's been many years. I've never argued with most of the XEI's I've known.

By turning it into a personal attack on my character, and calling me a bot, or somehow I'm some sort of bad human being is pretty much what turns me off about egos, and I don't generally have the capacity to deal with them in a friendly fashion in close relations.

I've been called a autist blowhard, a bot, etc, etc in this thread already and I'm the one in the wrong. It's cool, used to it.

I'm pretty sure I've been PoLR hit again but w/e.

[Creepy-female]

The thing is I never argue with a some people. I've never argued with Glam in my life and it's been many years. I've never argued with most of the XEI's I've known.

By turning it into a personal attack on my character, and calling me a bot, or somehow I'm some sort of bad human being is pretty much what turns me off about egos, and I don't generally have the capacity to deal with them in a friendly fashion in close relations.

I've been called a autist blowhard, a bot, etc, etc in this thread already and I'm the one in the wrong. It's cool, used to it.

I'm pretty sure I've been PoLR hit again but w/e.

Good for you. Still doesn't mean Baby is EII.

This is more of a heads up to Baby that he doesn't have to let his insights in this thread be overshadowed by your ego. If he's feeling rather put upon by the walls of text, it's normal. Engaging you when you're like this is pointless. You don't uptake, you talk. There's no cause for him to martyr himself upon the altar of your neurosis, even in the name of diplomacy.