Mike Daisey

[marooned]

Is this an IEI? What is it? (Actually I now basically think this is an IEI.)

Frankly, I love this monologue.

Except for the part about ditching/shaming friends, I suppose. I'm referring mostly to where he said something along the lines of, "if your friend's a banker, shun that person for not being morally perfect enough, and get that person out of your life." It seems kind of callous. It's like, 'yes I'll keep Bob and Diane, but John, he works fairly high up in a bank right now. He has got to go. I'll be sure to tell him that he's a POS according to my possibly new philosophy. Whatever time we spent building our friendship, none of that matters.'

If one has too serious of a value clash with someone else, they may sort of drift apart anyway, so I don't see the point in actively going through it like that. So I suppose if one is close friends with John it may mean that their own values don't really clash with John's. So then it can be like distancing oneself from druggie friends when one is trying to go clean and improve their life. Their druggie friends just influence them to ruin their life and so they have to cut them out of it. I don't know. I've always felt touchy about the subject of cutting out friends, and what that even says about what the friendship was pre-cut.

[Leader]

No.

[marooned]

perhaps I should have said "what type do you think this person is?"

"No," is of course a really helpful response.

[marooned]

Anyway, I'm not sure. I was also pondering ILE and Beta ST. I see Alpha SF as less likely, but I guess not impossible. I think he's a fairly intellectual sort of person and sometimes I think it can make typing more complicated. I'm afraid some might say he can't be IEI because he's big and fat and clearly rather pushy on the podium. He's not soft or timid with a silent air of "mystery" or something. But really why can't a big fat male IEI who also is an intellectual/philosophical sort get really pushy with their HA? I think that's what I sort of perceived. Maybe I'm crazy.

[Crispy]

Best guess is EIE

[Ave]

Except for the part about ditching/shaming friends, I suppose. I'm referring mostly to where he said something along the lines of, "if your friend's a banker, shun that person for not being morally perfect enough, and get that person out of your life." It seems kind of callous. It's like, 'yes I'll keep Bob and Diane, but John, he works fairly high up in a bank right now. He has got to go. I'll be sure to tell him that he's a POS according to my possibly new philosophy. Whatever time we spent building our friendship, none of that matters.'

If one has too serious of a value clash with someone else, they may sort of drift apart anyway, so I don't see the point in actively going through it like that. So I suppose if one is close friends with John it may mean that their own values don't really clash with John's. So then it can be like distancing oneself from druggie friends when one is trying to go clean and improve their life. Their druggie friends just influence them to ruin their life and so they have to cut them out of it. I don't know. I've always felt touchy about the subject of cutting out friends, and what that even says about what the friendship was pre-cut.

I see your point, but I think hes just trying to say bankers are dirty people nowadays.

[Ave]

Hes intrigueing - I think Ti-ESTp.

[Leader]

perhaps I should have said "what type do you think this person is?"

"No," is of course a really helpful response.

Oh sorry, well then my response would be, not sure, but not beta.

[Absurd]

You have a homosexual bear as your avatar, Agee.

[marooned]

Best guess is EIE

Did I forget EIE was a type or something? Wow. Seriously. It's like EIE completely fell out of my brain. EIE really might be a better guess than IEI. lol

I don't know Agee, I think he seems pretty darn Beta. Although I know what kind of response such a thing might get, I think that he's almost too harsh & berating for Alpha (with the exception of ILE... although I think that ILE, wanting to be liked, would soak up input about how to come across less that way rather than deliberately being that way to make an emotional impact... In fact, I have difficulty seeing Fi PoLR in general... this is not someone who knows not what he does--he does it on purpose).

In my insane mind I think that there can be a difference between Alpha and Beta dynamics where Betas might engage in a sort of "merry" and playful (not serious) interaction with Alphas, but then sometimes the Beta atmosphere may change to being more "dead serious" and the Alphas may lag behind in catching on. This is where Beta can despise Alpha. Alpha just doesn't get it, they think it is all a game, not a serious matter of life and death (they're being infantile about it). Alpha may naively not recognize the edge that things have taken at first. It will be more important to Beta that an all-important message be adhered to that everyone is expected to receive with the proper tone or attitude. This was how I felt about things at the point in the monologue where Daisey informs the audience that he is dead serious and not joking: "Is he serious? OMG, I dunno, he's kinda funny, I don't think he's serious... I'm very fucking serious. Let me clear that up for you if you have a problem with levels." --34:36 (Here, he's being a nice Beta so that others can be warned to avoid his wrath. That's how I feel about that part.) Anyway the reason this may happen between Alpha and Beta is that Alpha does not take Se seriously. Se is perhaps something that is amusing (like we're playacting).

I see your point, but I think hes just trying to say bankers are dirty people nowadays.

I think this leaves little room for ambiguity:

"If you have friends who are lawyers that work in a corporate context, you need to quit them. You need to shun them. You need to drop them. Social shaming is a very powerful impulse. They need to know the truth and they need to be discarded. And that shame increases and we inculcate it in our children. There will be less in the next generation. All of the lawyers and bankers will have to breed with each other, and they will have stunted children who are the only ones who will go on to be more bankers and lawyers and eventually the whole fucking breed will die out entirely." --33:43

I also associate this sort of shunning very much with Beta: It's important to ostracize certain groups of people as worthless human beings in order to enact social change (for Humanity! & a higher principle of Truth).

[717495]

Ew. He can be Beta.

[marooned]

Going on, I see Ni in his monologue, especially in the way he tells the tale of the pyramids and connects it to his view of the corporations. It's not because he's created a metaphor (which anyone can do), but it's the very clear picture and imagery of his stories. I think in those moments he's went off into using his Ni. Also I think being a monologuist is an excellent profession for an Ni type, so they can go on long monologues using their imagination, to a captive audience who really can't get a word in and simply must listen and soak up the Ni type's images.

[Erk]

Good talk, good talk, of course kind of one dimensional, but nonetheless makes it's point. I did watch the whole thing.

[Suz]

Good talk, good talk, of course kind of one dimensional, but nonetheless makes it's point. I did watch the whole thing.

ERKY!! Where u been hiding?

[Erk]

As scheduled, always right behind me.