External influences and condtioning on your natural type

[Revan]

This idea came to me as I was reading through a post about others giving their type impressions of me. Please bear with me, I haven't thought this through that well..

I believe it is possible that your parents, siblings, and other important people in your life can impose a significant affect on your personality through your various interactions. Of course, your parents have the greatest affect on you compared to anyone else. Assuming that you have had a decent relationship with them. For an example, my own family consists of: my mom who is an EIE, my dad who is an SLI, my brother who is an SLE, and my sister who is an SEE. I am fairly certain of these typings since I have known them my entire life and it is always much easier when you know your own type, which I am fairly certain is ILE. Having my mother constantly hammering her at me has definitely lead me to be able to keep a positive atmosphere and to respect other people's beliefs, opinions, etc. without wanting to quickly destroy their faulty reasoning. I believe this also tamed my a bit and made me not so harsh and critical of certain things. This also would make my mobilizing function happy (no pun intended), as well. She would, however, annoy me pretty thoroughly with her as I am good with that when I need to be and too much of it would lead to an argument of me trying to prove I'm not an idiot (although that's not what she meant of course). My parents divorced when I was young and although I didn't see my dad too much we still were in fairly frequent contact, so there was definitely not as much influence from him than from my mom. My dad through his , has definitely taught me to respect stability in life and would constantly remind me to relax and take it easy and don't stress over the small stuff. As I was growing up he also gave my some perspective and encouraged me to "just get it done and move on" which I am grateful for now, as I am going through the torture of required classes in college. I did not see too much of my brother as I was growing up because he was/is as mercurial as they come. Characteristic of a rather immature SLE I'd say. I would mostly regard what he would tell me as nonsense any way since I felt his to be a little abrasive. My sister is also on the immature side, but we would at least have a fun time together. Mostly we would do superficial activities together like watch movies, etc. We would really bond when we were both frustrated with my mom and she would help give me some perspective on in a subtle kind of way that was easy to understand and not too irritating as would be a dominant type. Aside from my family, the most profound affect on my type has come from my current duality relationship with an SEI. Through this relationship I feel as though I have started to see myself from a whole different perspective and I have changed quite a bit from how I used to be. It would be too much to type out right now, but let it be sufficient to say that it has been quite the experience. On a side note, I would like to say I have had a lot of alone time through out my life and probably don't seem like the "average" or stereotypical ILE, but I cannot see any other type for myself. I am still open to feedback, however.

Well this actually turned into a familial analysis more than an actual theory, but I think it is important nonetheless. I believe this can help shed more light on your type being affected by others' types. I'm sure I have had an affect back at those who have had an affect on me, but due to my PoLR being I'm not very adept at understanding relationships (which I am more than happy to acknowledge and admit(to those who would understand at least)). I suppose what I am getting at here is not only can you analyze what kind of relationships you have with others, but you can reflect on these relationships' affects on you and others. Which can bring you some enlightening insights into your current cognition and behaviors.

I would love to hear others' personal experiences with important figures in their lives and possible affects on their type! Also be wary that due to conditioning this may cause you to mistype yourselves and essentially be the product of your parents, etc. vicariously living through you or something of the sort. Just more food for thought

[anndelise]

You do realize that focusing on psychological/emotional impacts are what F (ethical) types do, right? Fi, in particular, about the psychological/emotional impacts on the individual.


However, to answer your question.
I grew up in a hostile environment. One where I would try to hide and avoid coming to the attention of my father. But hiding myself was never a natural inclination of mine. And so often I would ...be me. Sometimes there would be no repercussions, sometimes there were horrific ones over the slightest thing. Any moment could change at the drop of a pin. This forced me to be hyper-aware of environmental changes, as well as of him....trying to find any sign that would signal a sudden change. But nothing was ever consistent. Anyhow, the hyperawareness led to an extremity of Fe focus, as well as an extremity of otherwise natural Ne...combined with such sudden changes for no apparent reason...led to the point of inability to take action.

If you know that things can suddenly change, at any moment, for no apparent reason...then how can you make decisions? How do you choose which of many actions available...to do?

Because of all this, my mind goes into hyper-spin, a chaotic mess, which often results in brittleness and a need to fight or flight. So I'll suddenly withdraw. Or be unable to focus. Or suddenly burst out in anger as an attempt to make what's causing the anxiety to stop.

If I know that I am going to face such a situation, then I will try to 'plan' for it. To find something which I can focus on, a way of guiding myself through it. It doesn't usually work, lol. But the alternative ...i can't eve go there.

Some socionics people look at it surfacely, and interpret it as me being an IJ or Se type.


Another thing is that despite teachers and some other adults having high expectations of me, perceiving me to be intelligent, I also grew up being ridiculed by family and peers ...basically for not being more logical, not thinking things through before acting, and not having concrete supporting evidence for even simple ideas. This led me to trying to read and follow books about critical thinking, or logic. I can never finish them, but every now and then I do pick up something I can use.

Also, because to me, so many things are unclear or hazy, I can't be certain of anything. So I'll approach it in a few different ways, or I'll be confused by something someone asserts, and ask questions about it. Inadvertently pointing out a flaw or missed area. (often just showing how bad my thinking abilities are, lol) Nowadays, people around me, and some people on the forum, interpret this as me analyzing things, and thus being a logical type. One particular user kept interpreting my Ne as Ti. And when during discussions I finally got the Fi through to him, he acknowledged the Fi...but threw out the Ne (having interpreted most of it as Ti). Kinda funny, but oh well.


I also have a few mood and psychological issues that I deal with. In a very strong desire to avoid being like my father, I've taken time out of life to learn ways to reduce the negative impact of some of it, not just on myself, but on those around me. Some of these methods are surfacely perceived as being a natural and easy IE, and/or my primary and natural IE. I know better.

[willekeurig]

My parents are beta rational duals, and (so ) my chilhood home was pretty hostile, too. They were conservative and strict and rarely gave any rational reasons for the rules they set. When I questioned them or suggested alternatives they'd usually just tell me to shut up and do as they say; "You can decide when you have your own children" and "because I say so" were their favourite arguments. My mom would often drive me crazy with he Ni statements. In conflict situations she often said she could read me like an open book and understood how my mind worked, but more often than not she got my motives and intentions all wrong, which pissed me off. She also compared me to her IEE sister who she thought was capricious and manipulative, but I'd always liked her so I didn't really take these insults seriously (or I was hurt by my moms will to insult me, but not the things she said themselves).
My dad's usually been quite cool when not under stress, but our communication styles don't really match. I remember one sad situation of miscommunication when I was around 6 years old, about to leave for my fist scout camp ever and had trouble with packing my sleeping bag. I was almost crying because, despite having tried many times, I hadn't managed to pack it and it felt almost impossible anyways (it was an adult-size winter bag and I was a really small/delicate child). I quite literally wished for some Te/Si help; that someone kind would've hugged me and told me it was alright and then showed me step-by-step how to put the thing in the bag. I asked for my dad to help, but he said he wouldn't help; that I needed to do it all by myself since no one was going to be there to do it for me when I was supposed to come back or any other time in the future. I started crying and tried to go to my room but dad closed the door and said I wasn't allowed to leave our living room before the sleepingbag was properly packed.

[Revan]

You do realize that focusing on psychological/emotional impacts are what F (ethical) types do, right? Fi, in particular, about the psychological/emotional impacts on the individual.

To respond to this, I actually don't focus on relational impacts at all in my daily life. I am interested by them, but merely as a subject of analysis rather than to convey any personal feelings. I am fairly certain I prefer logic over ethics, although I am not completely unethical as that would mean I'm antisocial If you knew me in real life, you would tell instantly that I'm horrible at understanding subjective relationships and really only prefer to be in groups of people to avoid awkwardness or unintentionally offending someone. This was originally supposed to have formed into a theory, but as I was typing it out I realized it didn't really make sense, so I changed the subject slightly. I also have a BS in Psychology and am going for graduate school soon, so I've somewhat been indoctrinated into the clinical state of mind..sorry lol

Aside from that, it sounds like both of you have had a rough upbringing...it would be interesting to also see the other side of being influenced by other types in an unfavorable way. I had to hide parts of myself too, due to the fact that I'm gay, and that also went against my natural extroverted inclination, which I believe forced me to rely on Ti more heavily than I would have. I used to be much colder and critical, but my situation changed and I slowly changed back into my natural self. It seems that both of you are ethical/intuitive types that have had some trouble with Logic/Sensing types (probably Se/Ti). I would think that, that would cause you to really undervalue those functions and possibly even dislike them in others. It also seems that you may have overvalued your stronger functions almost to the point of neurosis. Its unfortunate, but I've always believed that conflict can force you to come out stronger

[anndelise]

Sorry, my comment regarding ethics wasn't meant to come off as an attempt to question your typing.

Also, I agree with the last two statements of your response back.

[Simon Ssmall]

https://www.ted.com/talks/julian_bag..._real_you.html

[willekeurig]

It also seems that you may have overvalued your stronger functions almost to the point of neurosis. Its unfortunate, but I've always believed that conflict can force you to come out stronger

I actually feel like I have brutally undervalued my ego functions because my family didn't value them. I've put too much focus on my superego functions to please my parents/environment, and I still do to some extent.

[Revan]

Sorry, my comment regarding ethics wasn't meant to come off as an attempt to question your typing.

Also, I agree with the last two statements of your response back.

No offense taken, just clarifying


Very interesting video Simon Ssmall!


Agarina - I meant the Id functions too, but that would make sense for you to embrace the functions that you are being attacked with too, to appease your parents. You almost have had an opposite reaction than anndelise, also interesting seeing as you are mirrors! xP

[The Ineffable]

I actually feel like I have brutally undervalued my ego functions because my family didn't value them. I've put too much focus on my superego functions to please my parents/environment, and I still do to some extent.

I don't know whether your parents are Super-Egos with you, but you seem to have understood this concept correctly to me. Indeed Super-Ego is very close to Freud's notion of role in society in some respect, though it is not the same thing. I think in theory it is not necessary that Super-Ego reactions to appear, for instance when one is not exposed to conflicting information, though that is unlikely to happen IRL (a teacher here, a neighbour there) and that would mean a person far from completely fit for life.

So yeah, my point is that understanding the idea of Super-Ego as role in society is very simple, it is not esoteric and understanding it would prevent misinterpretations like considering role attitudes as necessary. It would be interesting to study persons whose parents are both and fully Super-Ego (with the subject), I speculate that this precociousness would make them more intimate with concealing oneself from others, maybe even psychopatic? It would be interesting to find out what actually happens.

[Revan]

That would be an interesting study. The super-ego (according to Freud) is a somewhat socially conditioned part of the personality that punishes "socially unacceptable" behavior/urges of the Id. I suppose it would make sense that those are also weak and lacking functions that are perceived as painful when criticized. I imagine that living with family members that value those functions could cause some serious damage to someone's psychological well-being. Kind of like the sterotypical "black sheep" of the family. What would be also interesting would be to carry the intertype relations further and instead of just a one-on-one relationship analysis, maybe a family/systems style approach can be used. I, for example, would have a relation of benefit with my mom, a semi-duality relation with my dad, a super-ego relation with my sister, and a look-a-like, etc relation with my brother. And from there springs a whole system of relations that can describe your family dynamic. Assuming of course that you have a "normal" family relationship, etc.